Hellcat versus Viper transmission

[PeerBlock]

Predictable again....you can't even answer a simple yes or no question.

Your idea of a scale up in costs to build 11 Vipers per shift is laughable....you have no clue what the costs are to automate an assembly line to robotic vehicle assembly.

Are my answers too complicated for you?

Chrysler already has automated production lines for their other vehicles - IF they wanted to sell the Viper in larger quantities at a profit, it would make more sense to tool their current facilities for Viper production. You are the one claiming that they want to move 5,000 plus units per year - not me. The only official line that I heard from SRT was they they are fine with limited production numbers and they never stated a specific figure.

You side step the economy issue again....doesn't matter if you're selling Porsches, RR, Bentley, Jags, etc.....if the money is not their they will not sell. Rolls Royce and Bentley have had they best records in recent years, a new fully loaded Ram Diesel 4x4 is running close to $70k and they are selling. The economy idea of why the Viper is not selling is incorrect. Marketing, advertising, lack of "perceived" performance, etc maybe, but not the economy.

I don't think you know what "side step" means if you're accusing me of doing that. You are not getting the fact that simply because people have money they will spend it, and spending $100K for a luxury SUV is not equal to spending $100K for a Viper. Unlike the SUV, a Viper has a very limited range of use and is only purchased when people have $100K to BURN. A Viper provides ZERO utility and only exists for entertainment purposes.

In a vibrant economy, people will be a lot more likely to buy six-figure toys. In today's economy, even people with money are choosing rather than buying 'all of the above'. That point you are missing is that people spending $100K on an SUV is NOT like people spending $100K on a sports car...and contrary to what obama and his acolytes tell you, the US economy is shrinking. Did you miss the report about the GDP sliding 1% in the first quarter of this year? The economy is not the sole factor but it's certainly contributing; that along with SRT's lack of effective communication to potential buyers is why the Viper isn't selling as well as it could be.

 

[TrackAire]

Are my answers too complicated for you?

Chrysler already has automated production lines for their other vehicles - IF they wanted to sell the Viper in larger quantities at a profit, it would make more sense to tool their current facilities for Viper production. You are the one claiming that they want to move 5,000 plus units per year - not me. The only official line that I heard from SRT was they they are fine with limited production numbers and they never stated a specific figure.



I don't think you know what "side step" means if you're accusing me of doing that. You are not getting the fact that simply because people have money they will spend it, and spending $100K for a luxury SUV is not equal to spending $100K for a Viper. Unlike the SUV, a Viper has a very limited range of use and is only purchased when people have $100K to BURN. A Viper provides ZERO utility and only exists for entertainment purposes.

In a vibrant economy, people will be a lot more likely to buy six-figure toys. In today's economy, even people with money are choosing rather than buying 'all of the above'. That point you are missing is that people spending $100K on an SUV is NOT like people spending $100K on a sports car...and contrary to what obama and his acolytes tell you, the US economy is shrinking. Did you miss the report about the GDP sliding 1% in the first quarter of this year? The economy is not the sole factor but it's certainly contributing; that along with SRT's lack of effective communication to potential buyers is why the Viper isn't selling as well as it could be.

Your comprehension is the craps.

I did not state that Chrysler had original plans to build 5000 Vipers (more like 2500)....I stated they could easily build 5000 on the production line they now have IMO. You went off on the robotic assembly tangent. Nobody discussed the Viper being an assembly line vehicle. Do you really think anybody here doesn't believe Chrysler would LOVE to sell 5000 Vipers per year? Which by the way, is a tiny number of vehicles in their system when compared to an automated assembly line.

What the hell is a vibrant economy in your mind?.....love for you to tell me any time in the last 30 years that everybody could agree that the economy was "vibrant" all at the same time. The auto economy is not just a USA market, it is a global market and as such your GDP example means squat, especially 1%. (Did you not notice much of the USA was frozen over the 1st quarter?). The potential to sell Vipers to the Middle East and Asia would easily take at least 1500 units a year if the car was desirable to their eyes. You stick with your SUV rant while Porsche, Jaguar, Aston Martin, etc. etc keep selling units because the economy is "bad".

Side stepping.....You don't answer why Porsche sells units in this "bad" economy, answer a basic yes or no question and my favorite "That SRT is fine with limited production numbers". Why don't you ask Ralph how that "limited production numbers" worked out for him?

My stance is simple, that high performance sells whether perceived or reality. For many reasons, some that you have correctly stated the Viper did not sell as planned. Adding more performance to the vehicle in the form of an auto (even if you don't believe it makes the car faster, the buying public may believe it and they are paying for the car) will sell more cars. I think most here will agree to that....except for you, lol.

Cheers,
George

 

[05Commemorative]

It is really odd to me that this topic always generates so much passion and bizarre personal attacks. It really is very simple. An auto will sell more cars. Why? because it will be faster, easier to drive in traffic and quite simply what the majority of high performance cars are equipped with today and that is a result of customer demand.

Let me even share two examples from just this week. Drove my 2013 LE to work this week and on two separate occasions had fellow workers admire the car and strongly considered getting one UNTIL they realized it only came as a manual. They honestly looked at that aspect as if it had roll-up windows. They honestly could not believe it (not in a good way), with the current transmission technology today...

So, this is not an issue of political views, manliness, driving experience, etc. It is simply a fact there are very few manual cars made today so the drivers that learn or know how to drive a manual is shrinking and most importantly the demand for it is drastically reduced. It you learned to drive with a paddle shifter, knew all the benefits, why exactly would you want a manual? Again, I am speaking for the majority purchasers now.

So, can we stop with political statements or someones fear to change or even convince ourselves there is a conspiracy to get rid of the manual by manufacturers. Plain and simple, it is what more buyers desire.

 

[Bruce H.]

Plain and simple, it is what more buyers desire.

While that is true, what most buyers want has never been the vision for the Viper that I can tell, and certainly isn't for Ralph and team by his own words. We all seem to want to make the car into what we think is best, or what we think will sell more cars, but those are our goals and GM's with the Vette... not theirs. They have had a singular vision for the car, and know full well that it won't appeal to most. They'll stuck to it, built it for those that share their goals, and are unapologetic and unyielding to those who don't.

I get the feeling when listening to Ralph discuss the car that making changes to his vision to satisfy other buyers is not something he is even remotely interested in doing, and would likely feel like a betrayal to their convictions and vision. I think they think the car is a perfect execution of that vision, and are pleased to offer it to those that feel the same way. You might not feel that approach makes the most business sense, or one that results in a car that the masses will want, but as a passionate enthusiast I can certainly respect it. It's a very rare thing to see in business today.

 

[Bobpantax]

Hi Bruce. The Viper is now controlled by Dodge. Ralph is not part of Dodge's management structure. I am in favor of whatever Dodge can do to keep the Viper program alive and as much of the team that built it intact. May Viper sales were one less than last year. More alleged Viper supporters need to step up to the plate and buy one. That is what counts. The rest is profitless noise.

 

[Bruce H.]

Hi Bruce. The Viper is now controlled by Dodge. Ralph is not part of Dodge's management structure. I am in favor of whatever Dodge can do to keep the Viper program alive and as much of the team that built it intact. May Viper sales were one less than last year. More alleged Viper supporters need to step up to the plate and buy one. That is what counts. The rest is profitless noise.

Hey Bob. I agree, and suspect we won't see any shift in focus now that it's a Dodge, and the car should nicely fit their definition of a halo car for that brand as is very well. I can see the plans for a vert being announced next month maybe, but that's about it until the next Gen when they will make changes they feel make sense for it. The vert should assure the car's financial profitabilty...although that may not be a necessity for their halo car.

 

[PeerBlock]

Your comprehension is the craps.

You should be worried less about my reading comprehension and more about the fact that you can't make a consistent and/or factual statement in any of your responses.

I did not state that Chrysler had original plans to build 5000 Vipers (more like 2500)....I stated they could easily build 5000 on the production line they now have IMO. You went off on the robotic assembly tangent. Nobody discussed the Viper being an assembly line vehicle. Do you really think anybody here doesn't believe Chrysler would LOVE to sell 5000 Vipers per year? Which by the way, is a tiny number of vehicles in their system when compared to an automated assembly line.

And I asked you to show me the documents you are referring to that informed you of Chrysler's corporate goals for the Viper. Still waiting, which can only mean you're talking out of your ass - then again we already knew this. I do know that the Viper was never intended to be a high volume vehicle, but the actual numbers they had in mind were never made public.

What the hell is a vibrant economy in your mind?.....love for you to tell me any time in the last 30 years that everybody could agree that the economy was "vibrant" all at the same time.

It was quite vibrant in the 80s under Reagan, and continued to be until America decided things were too good and elected Clinton twice...after which we got our first recession courtesy of the tech bubble popping. You think asking rhetorical questions is somehow "intelligent" discourse? Or are you really going to sit there and proclaim that the US economy today is in great shape and is not having any detrimental effects on businesses?

The auto economy is not just a USA market, it is a global market and as such your GDP example means squat, especially 1%. (Did you not notice much of the USA was frozen over the 1st quarter?).

No, actually, a 1% slide in GDP within 3 months is SIGNIFICANT, if you actually understood the economic situation in the first place.

You believe the "weather" argument that only the dimmest of the dim would believe....which means you probably believe in man-made climate change...so why are you trolling the Viper forums? Do you even have a Viper? You probably should be on the Prius chat room talking about how you driving an electric car is "saving the world". Why are you believing a climate-change based argument, entirely devoid of fact, but claim to drive a Viper which is arguably the antithesis of what liberals claim to stand for. Carbon emissions are so evil, right? Why drive a car that gets 14 MPG on a good day?

The potential to sell Vipers to the Middle East and Asia would easily take at least 1500 units a year if the car was desirable to their eyes. You stick with your SUV rant while Porsche, Jaguar, Aston Martin, etc. etc keep selling units because the economy is "bad".

You made yourself look as dumb as you are by suggesting that because Land Rovers are selling, so should Vipers. Now you're attempting to deflect and backpedal...silly liberal...if you want people to think you are smart, just stop talking and you'll be lauded as a genius.

Side stepping.....You don't answer why Porsche sells units in this "bad" economy, answer a basic yes or no question and my favorite "That SRT is fine with limited production numbers". Why don't you ask Ralph how that "limited production numbers" worked out for him?

I did explain why Porshes continue to sell...and tell me, if Porsche ONLY offered the 911 turbo with no cheaper models, how many would they sell? Again, you are making terrible comparisons that you believe are 'brilliant' but in reality are just hallmarks of your ignorance.

Seriously, do you even own a Viper? You sound more like a troll with every post you make.

My stance is simple, that high performance sells whether perceived or reality. For many reasons, some that you have correctly stated the Viper did not sell as planned. Adding more performance to the vehicle in the form of an auto (even if you don't believe it makes the car faster, the buying public may believe it and they are paying for the car) will sell more cars. I think most here will agree to that....except for you, lol.

Except that SRT did not want to sell a lot of Vipers...and this was stated by them, contrary to everything you say which is entirely speculation. The Viper is not lacking in performance - if you owned one you'd know this. And Vipers are a blast to drive on the street - again, something only a Viper owner would be aware of.

So, can we stop with political statements or someones fear to change or even convince ourselves there is a conspiracy to get rid of the manual by manufacturers. Plain and simple, it is what more buyers desire.

Never said anything against DCTs in general, just that adding one to the Viper, even if it was an option, would make the Viper substantially less raw. You must have driven a DCT by now, you cannot sit there and say that two identical cars, but one with a DCT and the other with a manual, would feel the same. You may say that you prefer the feel of the car with a DCT, but it's up to the manufacturer whether or not that is the direction they want to take their product.

Vipers were never supposed to have mass appeal. It is a NICHE vehicle that only a small group of people would ever want to purchase and own, even if many people love the way it looks and the idea behind it. The whole 'it's what the buyers want' argument is bunk.

While that is true, what most buyers want has never been the vision for the Viper that I can tell, and certainly isn't for Ralph and team by his own words. We all seem to want to make the car into what we think is best, or what we think will sell more cars, but those are our goals and GM's with the Vette... not theirs. They have had a singular vision for the car, and know full well that it won't appeal to most. They'll stuck to it, built it for those that share their goals, and are unapologetic and unyielding to those who don't.

I get the feeling when listening to Ralph discuss the car that making changes to his vision to satisfy other buyers is not something he is even remotely interested in doing, and would likely feel like a betrayal to their convictions and vision. I think they think the car is a perfect execution of that vision, and are pleased to offer it to those that feel the same way. You might not feel that approach makes the most business sense, or one that results in a car that the masses will want, but as a passionate enthusiast I can certainly respect it. It's a very rare thing to see in business today.

Well stated, you get what others in this thread do not.

 

[ViperSmith]

While that is true, what most buyers want has never been the vision for the Viper that I can tell, and certainly isn't for Ralph and team by his own words. We all seem to want to make the car into what we think is best, or what we think will sell more cars, but those are our goals and GM's with the Vette... not theirs. They have had a singular vision for the car, and know full well that it won't appeal to most. They'll stuck to it, built it for those that share their goals, and are unapologetic and unyielding to those who don't.

I get the feeling when listening to Ralph discuss the car that making changes to his vision to satisfy other buyers is not something he is even remotely interested in doing, and would likely feel like a betrayal to their convictions and vision. I think they think the car is a perfect execution of that vision, and are pleased to offer it to those that feel the same way. You might not feel that approach makes the most business sense, or one that results in a car that the masses will want, but as a passionate enthusiast I can certainly respect it. It's a very rare thing to see in business today.

I look at Ralphs words this way: When Steve Jobs debuted the iPhone, you didn't need custom Apps, because they gave you everything you needed. Once they allowed you to have custom Apps, they were the best.

When you're job is to sell what you've got, you aren't going to undercut what you've got for the sake of placating peoples questions

If the Viper had the budget, without a doubt in my mind it would have some type of DCT/Auto in it.

I am unsure how long I'll keep my Viper. I want something my wife can drive as well (things are going good, but hey not everyone can have a full stable of cars...). I've been looking at lightly used MP4-12Cs, because they are stupid fast and she could drive it to work if she wanted, or me home from the bar if we go out. The Viper is without a doubt a fun car, but the manual limits the audience and use.

 

[Bobpantax]

What matters now are the words of Timothy Kuniskis, President and CEO of the Dodge Brand. The Viper is now within the Dodge portfolio of vehicles and SRT, as a brand, is gone.

I have not seen any statement from Dodge regarding the future of the Viper since the SRT brand was terminated and there has been no follow up from Dodge to the email that SRT sent out to all Viper owners registered with the SRT site regarding what was called the SRT Homecoming in July. The refresh on the five year plan, which was there before the brand elimination announcement, does not mean much.

It would be helpful and useful if Dodge would issue a press release on its current intentions regarding the 2015 model year and the future of the Viper program.

 

[TrackAire]

You should be worried less about my reading comprehension and more about the fact that you can't make a consistent and/or factual statement in any of your responses.



And I asked you to show me the documents you are referring to that informed you of Chrysler's corporate goals for the Viper. Still waiting, which can only mean you're talking out of your ass - then again we already knew this. I do know that the Viper was never intended to be a high volume vehicle, but the actual numbers they had in mind were never made public.



It was quite vibrant in the 80s under Reagan, and continued to be until America decided things were too good and elected Clinton twice...after which we got our first recession courtesy of the tech bubble popping. You think asking rhetorical questions is somehow "intelligent" discourse? Or are you really going to sit there and proclaim that the US economy today is in great shape and is not having any detrimental effects on businesses?



No, actually, a 1% slide in GDP within 3 months is SIGNIFICANT, if you actually understood the economic situation in the first place.

You believe the "weather" argument that only the dimmest of the dim would believe....which means you probably believe in man-made climate change...so why are you trolling the Viper forums? Do you even have a Viper? You probably should be on the Prius chat room talking about how you driving an electric car is "saving the world". Why are you believing a climate-change based argument, entirely devoid of fact, but claim to drive a Viper which is arguably the antithesis of what liberals claim to stand for. Carbon emissions are so evil, right? Why drive a car that gets 14 MPG on a good day?



You made yourself look as dumb as you are by suggesting that because Land Rovers are selling, so should Vipers. Now you're attempting to deflect and backpedal...silly liberal...if you want people to think you are smart, just stop talking and you'll be lauded as a genius.



I did explain why Porshes continue to sell...and tell me, if Porsche ONLY offered the 911 turbo with no cheaper models, how many would they sell? Again, you are making terrible comparisons that you believe are 'brilliant' but in reality are just hallmarks of your ignorance.

Seriously, do you even own a Viper? You sound more like a troll with every post you make.



Except that SRT did not want to sell a lot of Vipers...and this was stated by them, contrary to everything you say which is entirely speculation. The Viper is not lacking in performance - if you owned one you'd know this. And Vipers are a blast to drive on the street - again, something only a Viper owner would be aware of.



Never said anything against DCTs in general, just that adding one to the Viper, even if it was an option, would make the Viper substantially less raw. You must have driven a DCT by now, you cannot sit there and say that two identical cars, but one with a DCT and the other with a manual, would feel the same. You may say that you prefer the feel of the car with a DCT, but it's up to the manufacturer whether or not that is the direction they want to take their product.

Vipers were never supposed to have mass appeal. It is a NICHE vehicle that only a small group of people would ever want to purchase and own, even if many people love the way it looks and the idea behind it. The whole 'it's what the buyers want' argument is bunk.



Well stated, you get what others in this thread do not.

Mootblocker,

I posted about the state of the economy for the last 30 years and you post Reagan era history from over 30 years ago......learn what decade you're dealing with when trying to make your point. Maybe the economy of the last 30 years hasn't worked out in your favor.....sorry. GM, Ford and Chrysler are posting great numbers the last 2 to 3 years. The market is higher than ever. Technology makes the only economy that matters a global one. Get over your weak ass arguments about the tough winter not effecting the numbers.

In regards to the amount of Vipers to be built per year, when listening to Ralph during different interviews I remember a target of 1500 to 1700 units after the initial Gen 5 started having delays. You are a world class idiot it you think SRT did not want to sell many Vipers. You really think they wanted to shut down CAAP? Do they call you for spin advice when the sales are in the toilet and they're trying to make up statements to explain why sales are the craps? Notice the totally different management structure?....do you really think that this happened because they reached their below failure sales number you think is a good thing?

The economy is fine for vehicles like the Viper. Just drove my Prius back from Thunderhill Raceway (it's a track with an asphalt surface and left and right turns called "corners"...it's where we get to drive our cars very fast). There were two brand new Z-28's, new F Type Jag, new C7's, C6 Carbon editions, plenty of GT-3 Porsches, new Audi's, Gen 5 Vipers, etc. It appears there is plenty of money out their for cars in the Viper price range that were out on the track today. The economy is not what is stopping the sale of even 2500 Gen 5's per year.

The Gen 5 is an awesome car, but the marketing side put it behind the eight ball. Lack of on time delivery didn't help. Bad press in the car mags didn't help. The car is so much better than the average car nut understands, but SRT and management failed to make this understood, plain and simple.

Porsche 911's are selling....that is my point. 911's aren't the most practical vehicle either and can cost way more than a GTS. Most 911's cost as much more than a Gen 5 so your 911 Turbo excuse is another fail. It's a want item and amazingly people have the money for them......That's my point, how you want to spin it in the vacuum between your ears is up to you.

You honestly think Vipers are exciting to drive on the street at the posted speed limit?....then I'll give you a ride in my Prius and show you real excitement in complete silence so you can try to hear yourself think. Driving at the posted limits, the Viper is not "exciting" IMO because it is so over qualified to drive at those low limits. Again, work on your comprehension. But, if you really think that Vipers are exciting to drive on the street at the posted limits, to each his own.

"You believe the "weather" argument that only the dimmest of the dim would believe....which means you probably believe in man-made climate change...so why are you trolling the Viper forums? Do you even have a Viper? You probably should be on the Prius chat room talking about how you driving an electric car is "saving the world". Why are you believing a climate-change based argument, entirely devoid of fact, but claim to drive a Viper which is arguably the antithesis of what liberals claim to stand for. Carbon emissions are so evil, right? Why drive a car that gets 14 MPG on a good day?"

Where do you get off running into tangents that I'm a Eco ****?. What happened, when you run out of B.S. and when cornered you start to make stuff up as you go? I just figured out your M.O......."admit to nothing, deny everything and make counter accusations". Very common lingo in special forces training if captured. Your above quote about me and the environment is the perfect example of you reaching for the stars your parents promised you might touch someday and just missing. Another obvious fail, lol.

Here, I'll give you your next B.S. tangent to deflect reality from your post.....I was the second shooter on the grassy knoll! Run with it, I'm sure you'll be able to spin it into a couple of paragraphs of wasted bandwidth.

Holy crap, I just figure out that you really don't "drive" a high performance car at all. If you own a Viper, you probably feel challenged taking off on a hill. I get it. But if you're going to keep flapping your lips and accusing others of not owning cars, why don't you prove what you have. Prove your driving talent. Can't figure out a Go Pro?...I'll help you. Your full of crap. This has turned into another Lance Romance situation.....are you Lance? You couldn't prove you driving talent because you can't drive. It's so obvious that you're not going to post any videos of your driving talent. No wonder you went ape **** when I asked for a video...you called me creepy. Imagine somebody on a car forum asking to see a track video.....sorry to stress you out. Hard to produce a video if it doesn't exist.

Time to put up or shut up....you've called me out claiming I don't own a Viper. I'll post up some vids, can you? I doubt you will.....just face it, you'll **** out.

Everybody get ready for another ride on the "Disorient Express" since history always repeats itself and will prove Mootblocker will not be able to give a straight answer, prove he even "drives" a Viper, etc.

Cheers
George

 

[SnakeBitten]

Sticky tires, CCB's, vert and DCT and I see a whole different demographic added to the usual niche crowd coming Dodges way. No-brainer imho. I think the first three will be here in the near future if Fiat is committed to the Viper.

 

[PeerBlock]

I posted about the state of the economy for the last 30 years and you post Reagan era history from over 30 years ago......learn what decade you're dealing with when trying to make your point. Maybe the economy of the last 30 years hasn't worked out in your favor.....sorry. GM, Ford and Chrysler are posting great numbers the last 2 to 3 years. The market is higher than ever. Technology makes the only economy that matters a global one. Get over your weak ass arguments about the tough winter not effecting the numbers.

You claimed that the economy "has always been vibrant" after asking "what is a vibrant economy anyway", and I cited the Reagan era as an example of what a vibrant US economy would look like. By the numbers, arguably all that matter, the high and growing GDP with low and decreasing unemployment rates would be two key factors of gauging the health of an economy. Under obama and the liberals, unemployment skyrocketed while GDP eeked out tenths of a percent in growth after 5 years of obama policies, only to lose all of those gains in 1Q of 2014. Keynesian economic policies DO NOT WORK and that's what we have in the US right now.

The stock market does not represent the economy - and anyone who plays with stocks knows this (or should). The stock market is hyper-inflated due to near zero-interest money along with the QE bond buyback program. The big, well-known public companies are not experiencing record sales or growth - they are merely setting on piles of cash, not hiring, not taking risks and not really contributing to the US economy which is largely consumer driven. Auto sales may be up, but that's only because they were all but non-existent just a few years ago...and again, cheap credit is masking the problems that still exist.

Technology can produce big revenue numbers but it consolidates the wealth to a relatively small group of people. The tech companies that cause the nasdaq 100 to soar are not employing hundreds of people or relying on US-based 3rd party vendors...they employ 25-50 people and do all work in-house or outsourced to some 3rd world country. Considering that you have yet to counter any of my "weak ass" arguments, it would seem that they're quite a bit more formidable than you'd like to admit...and all I'm really doing is stating the facts.

In regards to the amount of Vipers to be built per year, when listening to Ralph during different interviews I remember a target of 1500 to 1700 units after the initial Gen 5 started having delays. You are a world class idiot it you think SRT did not want to sell many Vipers. You really think they wanted to shut down CAAP?

Blah blah blah -- where on SRT's, Dodges or Chrysler's website can I download this information? Why not share?

The economy is fine for vehicles like the Viper. Just drove my Prius back from Thunderhill Raceway (it's a track with an asphalt surface and left and right turns called "corners"...it's where we get to drive our cars very fast). There were two brand new Z-28's, new F Type Jag, new C7's, C6 Carbon editions, plenty of GT-3 Porsches, new Audi's, Gen 5 Vipers, etc. It appears there is plenty of money out their for cars in the Viper price range that were out on the track today. The economy is not what is stopping the sale of even 2500 Gen 5's per year.

Oh, so in addition to trolling Viper forums you have your protests at race tracks because you don't want people participating in activities you've taken to believe are "unsustainable". Every time I fill up the tank on my Viper I'm supporting middle eastern terrorists, right?

I think you should learn what "contributing factor" means; I never said the economy is the PRIMARY reason that the Viper was not selling more units than it did. I said that it was a contributing factor, which it is, and the primary reason in my opinion is the lack of advertising being compounded by a generally weak economy.

The Gen 5 is an awesome car, but the marketing side put it behind the eight ball. Lack of on time delivery didn't help. Bad press in the car mags didn't help. The car is so much better than the average car nut understands, but SRT and management failed to make this understood, plain and simple.

Exactly what I said in this thread and others before it...echo much?

Porsche 911's are selling....that is my point. 911's aren't the most practical vehicle either and can cost way more than a GTS. Most 911's cost as much more than a Gen 5 so your 911 Turbo excuse is another fail. It's a want item and amazingly people have the money for them......That's my point, how you want to spin it in the vacuum between your ears is up to you.

See the part where I stated that the Porsche brand has been consistent for decades. It was Dodge Viper last time around, now its SRT Viper and nobody even heard of SRT...but suddenly Dodge dealers had Vipers tucked away behind a minivan, a dart and a pickup - makes sense. Go to the Dodge/Jeep dealer so you can buy a $100K plus SRT Viper.

It's not a balanced comparison because there are some major discrepancies between the way Porsche and Dodge/Chrysler/SRT communicate to potential buyers, the latter barely communicating at all. Even the ad they run in the Viper mag is ridiculous, rather than focusing on the viper they lump it together with all of the other SRT-branded vehicles. *** is that? I'll tell you - it's how NOT to sell Vipers.

You honestly think Vipers are exciting to drive on the street at the posted speed limit?....then I'll give you a ride in my Prius and show you real excitement in complete silence so you can try to hear yourself think. Driving at the posted limits, the Viper is not "exciting" IMO because it is so over qualified to drive at those low limits. Again, work on your comprehension. But, if you really think that Vipers are exciting to drive on the street at the posted limits, to each his own.

Any car driven without restriction would provide a more exciting experience than driving within the confines of traffic regulations, but these are two distinct experiences. If it's not exciting for you, speak for yourself, but since it seems less and less likely that you actually own a Viper it's unclear why you continue to bring this up.

Who is backing you up on this one? Anyone else rather roll around in a Prius than a Viper on the street, given the choice?

Where do you get off running into tangents that I'm a Eco ****?. What happened, when you run out of B.S. and when cornered you start to make stuff up as you go? I just figured out your M.O......."admit to nothing, deny everything and make counter accusations". Very common lingo in special forces training if captured. Your above quote about me and the environment is the perfect example of you reaching for the stars your parents promised you might touch someday and just missing. Another obvious fail, lol.

If you believe that the weather is the reason the US economy shed 1% GDP in the first quarter of this year, you are accepting the "climate change is real" argument. When they talk about climate change, they are talking about "man made" climate change...and THAT is a farce. For someone who claims not to be a treehumper, you sure sound like one...and who takes a Prius to a race track?

Holy crap, I just figure out that you really don't "drive" a high performance car at all. If you own a Viper, you probably feel challenged taking off on a hill. I get it. But if you're going to keep flapping your lips and accusing others of not owning cars, why don't you prove what you have. Prove your driving talent.

Actually, the Viper's anti-rollback feature makes accelerating from a stop on a hill very easy. I think all manual vehicles should have this feature...and here we go again with you publicly ranting about your desire to exchange fetish videos.

Time to put up or shut up....you've called me out claiming I don't own a Viper. I'll post up some vids, can you? I doubt you will.....just face it, you'll **** out.

Is that desperation I smell, or did you go overboard with the Old Spice again?

 

[ViperSmith]

Sticky tires, CCB's, vert and DCT and I see a whole different demographic added to the usual niche crowd coming Dodges way. No-brainer imho. I think the first three will be here in the near future if Fiat is committed to the Viper.

More to the point, I couldn't think of anyone other than Ralph who would be best to lead the Viper into the DCT world - he'd be there to ensure that it doesn't lose its magic.

Always a lot of talk "the Viper shouldn't compromise! Should be #1!!!" yet people are afraid of change.

 

[Alabaster Mamba]

More to the point, I couldn't think of anyone other than Ralph who would be best to lead the Viper into the DCT world - he'd be there to ensure that it doesn't lose its magic.

Always a lot of talk "the Viper shouldn't compromise! Should be #1!!!" yet people are afraid of change.

So true. What I don't understand is why people can't live with the fact that you can have the manual as well as the auto/DCT. Just because one is allowed doesn't mean the other will be cancelled. If an automatic isn't your cup of tea, then don't get an automatic. Why do people try to push their wants and desires on others? If you don't like the auto, get the manual and vice versa.

 

[SnakeBitten]

More to the point, I couldn't think of anyone other than Ralph who would be best to lead the Viper into the DCT world - he'd be there to ensure that it doesn't lose its magic.

Always a lot of talk "the Viper shouldn't compromise! Should be #1!!!" yet people are afraid of change.

I agree with you 100%. I think Ralph is an asset the Viper program should not lose as it continues to evolve as he has shown, as with the G5's improvements, that the Viper DNA will still permeate the final product even when change occurs. Its obvious that there will always be a purist model so why should anyone be upset at a variant that would cater to a larger demographic with DCT, CCB's etc? Not to mention those changes would put the Viper right up there with the likes of the 12C and Nismo GTR acceleration-wise and distance it from them even further than it does now around a road course. So these aren't poser options like paint colors etc [not knocking paint obviously].

 

[TrackAire]

You claimed that the economy "has always been vibrant" after asking "what is a vibrant economy anyway", and I cited the Reagan era as an example of what a vibrant US economy would look like. By the numbers, arguably all that matter, the high and growing GDP with low and decreasing unemployment rates would be two key factors of gauging the health of an economy. Under obama and the liberals, unemployment skyrocketed while GDP eeked out tenths of a percent in growth after 5 years of obama policies, only to lose all of those gains in 1Q of 2014. Keynesian economic policies DO NOT WORK and that's what we have in the US right now.

The stock market does not represent the economy - and anyone who plays with stocks knows this (or should). The stock market is hyper-inflated due to near zero-interest money along with the QE bond buyback program. The big, well-known public companies are not experiencing record sales or growth - they are merely setting on piles of cash, not hiring, not taking risks and not really contributing to the US economy which is largely consumer driven. Auto sales may be up, but that's only because they were all but non-existent just a few years ago...and again, cheap credit is masking the problems that still exist.

Technology can produce big revenue numbers but it consolidates the wealth to a relatively small group of people. The tech companies that cause the nasdaq 100 to soar are not employing hundreds of people or relying on US-based 3rd party vendors...they employ 25-50 people and do all work in-house or outsourced to some 3rd world country. Considering that you have yet to counter any of my "weak ass" arguments, it would seem that they're quite a bit more formidable than you'd like to admit...and all I'm really doing is stating the facts.



Blah blah blah -- where on SRT's, Dodges or Chrysler's website can I download this information? Why not share?



Oh, so in addition to trolling Viper forums you have your protests at race tracks because you don't want people participating in activities you've taken to believe are "unsustainable". Every time I fill up the tank on my Viper I'm supporting middle eastern terrorists, right?

I think you should learn what "contributing factor" means; I never said the economy is the PRIMARY reason that the Viper was not selling more units than it did. I said that it was a contributing factor, which it is, and the primary reason in my opinion is the lack of advertising being compounded by a generally weak economy.



Exactly what I said in this thread and others before it...echo much?



See the part where I stated that the Porsche brand has been consistent for decades. It was Dodge Viper last time around, now its SRT Viper and nobody even heard of SRT...but suddenly Dodge dealers had Vipers tucked away behind a minivan, a dart and a pickup - makes sense. Go to the Dodge/Jeep dealer so you can buy a $100K plus SRT Viper.

It's not a balanced comparison because there are some major discrepancies between the way Porsche and Dodge/Chrysler/SRT communicate to potential buyers, the latter barely communicating at all. Even the ad they run in the Viper mag is ridiculous, rather than focusing on the viper they lump it together with all of the other SRT-branded vehicles. *** is that? I'll tell you - it's how NOT to sell Vipers.



Any car driven without restriction would provide a more exciting experience than driving within the confines of traffic regulations, but these are two distinct experiences. If it's not exciting for you, speak for yourself, but since it seems less and less likely that you actually own a Viper it's unclear why you continue to bring this up.

Who is backing you up on this one? Anyone else rather roll around in a Prius than a Viper on the street, given the choice?



If you believe that the weather is the reason the US economy shed 1% GDP in the first quarter of this year, you are accepting the "climate change is real" argument. When they talk about climate change, they are talking about "man made" climate change...and THAT is a farce. For someone who claims not to be a treehumper, you sure sound like one...and who takes a Prius to a race track?



Actually, the Viper's anti-rollback feature makes accelerating from a stop on a hill very easy. I think all manual vehicles should have this feature...and here we go again with you publicly ranting about your desire to exchange fetish videos.



Is that desperation I smell, or did you go overboard with the Old Spice again?

You ignorant poser....our customers were delayed in purchasing because it was a long, wet and frozen winter....they couldn't buy, manufacture, build, plant or sell because of the tougher than average winter shutting production and demand down. This will effect the GDP. Where do you come up with climate change B.S. having anything to do with the reality of what the actual weather was and how it effects the economy? Your M.O. is still to avoid the reality and post tangents while trying to claim others are liberals, climate conspiracies, etc. You're reaching again Mootblocker....someday you'll make a post that has relevance to the subject. In the meantime you'll keep trying make up stuff, accuse people of driving a "Prius", being liberal, etc. You must work for the Obama administration as much as you try to swap words and facts and spin them into a Mootblocker mentality.

So you're pussing out....can't post a video showing you actually know anything about a Viper other than you vomiting wrong information. Post up your racing experience. Post up anything proving you know anything mechanical. You're the joke of this forum, you have no backbone to prove anything you try to smother others with....a true poser.

Keep trying to deflect the reality of you being a poser and not having even driven a vehicle in a performance situation. I'm right, you know it or you would have posted up by now. Lance Romance II is alive and well.

You are so predictable....but when asked to prove anything you **** out. You've failed again, people put you on ignore...what does that tell you?

You have brought nothing to this forum, just look at all your posts and the replies. You lack respect. You will continue to prove that history always repeats itself. You are lacking in integrity yet call out everybody without a shred of proof that you have expertise on the subject. When called out you **** out.
Interesting you're not on any other popular Viper forums.....why is that? Is it because you would be kicked off after the first few moronic posts? Prove me wrong...but we both know that will never happen. Come on over to the Alley, there are a lot of technical discussions that could use your expertise regarding superchargers, turbos, etc. Open invite....but you'll never do it since you're so predictable.

Until you post the proof that you are worthy of actually having valid input, you'll just stay the deflecting, disrespecting, spineless poser that you are....and the laughingstock of the Viper forums.

Cheers
George

 

[ViperSmith]

I agree with you 100%. I think Ralph is an asset the Viper program should not lose as it continues to evolve as he has shown, as with the G5's improvements, that the Viper DNA will still permeate the final product even when change occurs. Its obvious that there will always be a purist model so why should anyone be upset at a variant that would cater to a larger demographic with DCT, CCB's etc? Not to mention those changes would put the Viper right up there with the likes of the 12C and Nismo GTR acceleration-wise and distance it from them even further than it does now around a road course. So these aren't poser options like paint colors etc [not knocking paint obviously].

The point always comes up as well "Well the manual Viper always beats those fast shift DCT cars around the track" - but the Viper also slaughtered all the manual cars too. I couldn't imagine the beating it would give out with a near instant shift transmission.

The 8.4L V10 isn't going to be around forever, just the way life is.

 

[Jack B]

He was kicked off the VOA for a month. I also offered to have a friendly drag race at a track close to his home, same thing he just disappeared.

You ignorant poser....our customers were delayed in purchasing because it was a long, wet and frozen winter....they couldn't buy, manufacture, build, plant or sell because of the tougher than average winter shutting production and demand down. This will effect the GDP. Where do you come up with climate change B.S. having anything to do with the reality of what the actual weather was and how it effects the economy? Your M.O. is still to avoid the reality and post tangents while trying to claim others are liberals, climate conspiracies, etc. You're reaching again Mootblocker....someday you'll make a post that has relevance to the subject. In the meantime you'll keep trying make up stuff, accuse people of driving a "Prius", being liberal, etc. You must work for the Obama administration as much as you try to swap words and facts and spin them into a Mootblocker mentality.

So you're pussing out....can't post a video showing you actually know anything about a Viper other than you vomiting wrong information. Post up your racing experience. Post up anything proving you know anything mechanical. You're the joke of this forum, you have no backbone to prove anything you try to smother others with....a true poser.

Keep trying to deflect the reality of you being a poser and not having even driven a vehicle in a performance situation. I'm right, you know it or you would have posted up by now. Lance Romance II is alive and well.

You are so predictable....but when asked to prove anything you **** out. You've failed again, people put you on ignore...what does that tell you?

You have brought nothing to this forum, just look at all your posts and the replies. You lack respect. You will continue to prove that history always repeats itself. You are lacking in integrity yet call out everybody without a shred of proof that you have expertise on the subject. When called out you **** out.
Interesting you're not on any other popular Viper forums.....why is that? Is it because you would be kicked off after the first few moronic posts? Prove me wrong...but we both know that will never happen. Come on over to the Alley, there are a lot of technical discussions that could use your expertise regarding superchargers, turbos, etc. Open invite....but you'll never do it since you're so predictable.

Until you post the proof that you are worthy of actually having valid input, you'll just stay the deflecting, disrespecting, spineless poser that you are....and the laughingstock of the Viper forums.

Cheers
George

 

[SnakeBitten]

The point always comes up as well "Well the manual Viper always beats those fast shift DCT cars around the track" - but the Viper also slaughtered all the manual cars too. I couldn't imagine the beating it would give out with a near instant shift transmission.

The 8.4L V10 isn't going to be around forever, just the way life is.

You are spot on. I too hope we do get to see this 8.4 ltr mated to a DCT before its eventually over.

 

[aqwut]

Real Men Shift there own gears!!!!!!!!!

I agree 200%...

 

[Jack B]

I have pulled the trans from a G1, G2 and G5. The G5 is the easiest to pull, but, there is no additional room in the G5 tunnel or frame. To increase the tunnel size you sacrifice cabin space.

Lastly, in the G2 with a 2 speed auto, you had to notch the frame.

I think we should wait and see the performance difference between the ZF-equipped Hellcat and the Tremic-quipped Hellcat. If the ZF offers a realistic performance gain over the tremic, then maybe an automatic SHOULD be on the table. As far as the ZF's durability goes, it has been extensively tested on the hellcat engine, which may surpass the Viper in Horsepower, and would be operating under higher loads because of the challenger's extra weight. And maybe the ZF doesn't fit in the Viper right now, but last MY it didn't fit in the challenger either, they reworked the floor plan to include extra room in the transmission tunnel.

Just some food for thought

 

[PeerBlock]

You ignorant poser....our customers were delayed in purchasing because it was a long, wet and frozen winter....they couldn't buy, manufacture, build, plant or sell because of the tougher than average winter shutting production and demand down. This will effect the GDP.

Wait, do you actually believe this crap? We've had worse winters than 2014 without a 1% GDP slide in the first quarter. Why do you have such a problem accepting the truth - that liberals and you are failures that need to be evicted from this country.

Where do you come up with climate change B.S. having anything to do with the reality of what the actual weather was and how it effects the economy?

So you don't follow the news reports that blamed the GDP slide on climate change, and yet you want to continue engaging me in a debate and digging yourself deeper into a hole? Might want to educate yourself before shooting your mouth off and coming across as being less intelligent than a spent ******.

You must work for the Obama administration as much as you try to swap words and facts and spin them into a Mootblocker mentality.

Whatever your say...but you're the guy who takes a prius to the race track due to your concerns about appearing too heterosexual.

So you're pussing out....can't post a video showing you actually know anything about a Viper other than you vomiting wrong information. Post up your racing experience. Post up anything proving you know anything mechanical. You're the joke of this forum, you have no backbone to prove anything you try to smother others with....a true poser.

Seems like you're really mad because you lost this friendly little debate by being wrong on every point. Still, an old guy who races a prius demanding people show him videos is both creepy and sad at the same time.

You are so predictable....but when asked to prove anything you **** out. You've failed again, people put you on ignore...what does that tell you?

People who start a debate, lose it, then start crying for "proof" of something arbitrary do so in an attempt to save face. We're laughing at you, not with you.

You have brought nothing to this forum, just look at all your posts and the replies. You lack respect. You will continue to prove that history always repeats itself. You are lacking in integrity yet call out everybody without a shred of proof that you have expertise on the subject. When called out you **** out.

Get this man a tissue! He's ballin! Call his mom and have her whip up his favorite meal before he dehydrates himself from all that crying!

Interesting you're not on any other popular Viper forums.....why is that? Is it because you would be kicked off after the first few moronic posts? Prove me wrong...but we both know that will never happen. Come on over to the Alley, there are a lot of technical discussions that could use your expertise regarding superchargers, turbos, etc. Open invite....but you'll never do it since you're so predictable.

You want to meet me in the alley to exchange private videos? DUDE, seriously, we need to get you some help. That is just wrong.

Until you post the proof that you are worthy of actually having valid input, you'll just stay the deflecting, disrespecting, spineless poser that you are....and the laughingstock of the Viper forums.

I guess if your life revolves around forums that matters. But you're still wrong and you still lost. No need for tears.

He was kicked off the VOA for a month. I also offered to have a friendly drag race at a track close to his home, same thing he just disappeared.

The voa is for butt-sniffers who don't know what a transaxle is or how to properly dyno a car. Still mad brah? Hows your taco wrap heat shield working out for you? lol

 

[sunsalem]

I have pulled the trans from a G1, G2 and G5. The G5 is the easiest to pull, but, there is no additional room in the G5 tunnel or frame. To increase the tunnel size you sacrifice cabin space.

.

How about a transaxle...like PeerBlock suggests?
IIRC, Vettes have one.

 

[Jack B]

I have had Peercock on the ignore list for a long time, so i do not know what misguided comments and attack garbage he posts. Secondly, I can guarantee you he has never been under a G5 to see what could fit.

1. Lets start out by saying that anything can be done, but, what is the cost in performance and dollars.

2. There is no room to forward of the differential and the drive shaft length is already close (short) to critical length.

3. That means that the axle center-line has to move back. This changes the wheel base which change the whole car. The weight goes up and the turn-in is dramatically affected. The weight distribution which is now 50/50 gets altered dramatically.

4. If you make this change, both standard and auto have to be rear mounted. Have you ever driven a car with a rear mounted trans like the vette, it is not pretty. Go on the vette forum and see what they think about the cars with the rear mounted trans. Unless this has changed, that is not a good shifting scheme.

Just an opinion, but, unless the entire chassis/body is changed you cannot justify a trans-axle. Again, i guarantee you that Mr Peercock has spent no time under the G5.

How about a transaxle...like PeerBlock suggests?
IIRC, Vettes have one.

 

[Bruce H.]

Jack,

A crew chief gave me a tour of Ben's GT3-R at Mosport and pointed out the use its sequential rear mounted transmission. I also saw one fitted to a comp coupe I saw at VIR that the owners were testing to see if they wanted to put it in their other cc. I think I heard one application was worth $40K and the other $70k, if I recall correctly. I'm not sure the extent of the measures they had taken to make it work well, but the comp coupe passed me in a corner like I was standing still. I thought it was an interesting option for those wanting to make a change, at the cost of a lot of change! Loving my stick

 

[Jack B]

With enough cash, anything is possible in a one-of car, a production model is a bit different. I would like to see what SRT would say.

Jack,

A crew chief gave me a tour of Ben's GT3-R at Mosport and pointed out the use its sequential rear mounted transmission. I also saw one fitted to a comp coupe I saw at VIR that the owners were testing to see if they wanted to put it in their other cc. I think I heard one application was worth $40K and the other $70k, if I recall correctly. I'm not sure the extent of the measures they had taken to make it work well, but the comp coupe passed me in a corner like I was standing still. I thought it was an interesting option for those wanting to make a change, at the cost of a lot of change! Moving my stick

 

[sunsalem]

I would like to see what SRT would say.

So would I.

 

[PeerBlock]

How about a transaxle...like PeerBlock suggests?
IIRC, Vettes have one.

You just made jacky take a trip to wikipedia to investigate this "transaxle" myth that keeps coming up on the forums.

I have had Peercock on the ignore list for a long time, so i do not know what misguided comments and attack garbage he posts. Secondly, I can guarantee you he has never been under a G5 to see what could fit.

In other words, after talking with me you realized that you crossed your intellectual finish line, which is roughly 60 feet (being generous).

Just an opinion, but, unless the entire chassis/body is changed you cannot justify a trans-axle. Again, i guarantee you that Mr Peercock has spent no time under the G5.

Jacky, didn't anyone tell you that car stuff is mostly guys territory. For all the time you spend under your car, you have yet to make a useful contribution - like sandwiches. How, exactly, are you going to make us all sandwiches if you keep messing around with your husband's car in the hopes of finding the transaxle?

 

[Bruce H.]

Updating your Ignore List is infinitely better than sinking to the level of hurling insults back and forth. On-lookers can't tell and don't care who started it all, but both parties look worse for doing it.

 

[sunsalem]

You just made jacky take a trip to wikipedia to investigate this "transaxle" myth that keeps coming up on the forums.



In other words, after talking with me you realized that you crossed your intellectual finish line, which is roughly 60 feet (being generous).



Jacky, didn't anyone tell you that car stuff is mostly guys territory. For all the time you spend under your car, you have yet to make a useful contribution - like sandwiches. How, exactly, are you going to make us all sandwiches if you keep messing around with your husband's car in the hopes of finding the transaxle?

WOW, I'm surprised you haven't been banned yet.

Updating your Ignore List is infinitely better than sinking to the level of hurling insults back and forth. On-lookers can't tell and don't care who started it all, but both parties look worse for doing it.

Thanx for the tip.