Hellcat versus Viper transmission

[doctorbob]

I just got done looking at the SRT site and the manual and eight speed transmissions. So they used an upgraded viper transmission for the Hellcat six speed manual. Why could they not put the eight speed with paddle shifters in the viper?......just asking....too big to fit?

 

[Bobpantax]

Does not fit.

 

[natsfan]

In my opinion Vipers should never have an automatic transmission. Only manuals just like they are doing it now and have done it.

 

[BlueLIGHTNING]

In my opinion Vipers should never have an automatic transmission. Only manuals just like they are doing it now and have done it.

 

[PeterMJ]

In my opinion Vipers should never have an automatic transmission. Only manuals just like they are doing it now and have done it.

word!

 

[Vic]

I think that if the Viper doesn't get the option of a dual clutch paddle-shift trans, it will never regain its place of prominence in the world.
C'mon, we've been rowing gears for 100 years. Time to catch up.

 

[Bruce H.]

Until then we'll have to settle for track dominance!

 

[supersnake]

Real Men Shift there own gears!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bruce H.]

Doesn't fit according to Ralph.

 

[BigDawg]

I think that if the Viper doesn't get the option of a dual clutch paddle-shift trans, it will never regain its place of prominence in the world.
C'mon, we've been rowing gears for 100 years. Time to catch up.

Agreed. The 8 speed automatic from the Challenger into the Viper however is a terrible idea. DCT is the only "automatic" that has any place in the Viper.

 

[05Commemorative]

Why do you guys say that. put in an 8sp auto (DCT or not), makes no difference and then watch the sales double. Also, why do you guys care? So, the Viper comes with the auto as an option, you don't need to buy it, so always confused why the strong opinions against it.

 

[TexasTorred]

Why do you guys say that. put in an 8sp auto (DCT or not), makes no difference and then watch the sales double. Also, why do you guys care? So, the Viper comes with the auto as an option, you don't need to buy it, so always confused why the strong opinions against it.

+2. If an auto option appeals to more buyers --which obviously more buyers are needed ---- why not. Especially at $100K+ price tag--the 'intended market' and potential 'cross-shoppers' may eliminate the car from their decision based on no automatic. May not be able to fit one now....but for the 'future' of the Viper---should seriously consider adding this option. I'm sure Dodge did a cost/benefit/market analysis and figured not worth the 10% who will purchase automatics vs. the tooling/install cost. Still, at this rate, an automatic option may get some more cross-shopping--which is MUCH needed.

 

[Bobpantax]

There are performance oriented wounded warriors who cannot drive a stick. There are older members who have arthritis that eventually will not be able to drive a stick due to the knee pain and wrist pain caused by shifting. For those reasons, among others, costs permitting, an automatic option would be a good thing. An aftermarket installation is expensive. I think Mark J at Woodhouse has done a few.

 

[PeerBlock]

+2. If an auto option appeals to more buyers --which obviously more buyers are needed ---- why not. Especially at $100K+ price tag--the 'intended market' and potential 'cross-shoppers' may eliminate the car from their decision based on no automatic. May not be able to fit one now....but for the 'future' of the Viper---should seriously consider adding this option. I'm sure Dodge did a cost/benefit/market analysis and figured not worth the 10% who will purchase automatics vs. the tooling/install cost. Still, at this rate, an automatic option may get some more cross-shopping--which is MUCH needed.

Suppose you got your wish...then what? Are we going to have people complaning that RWD is "obsolete" and that new vipers should have a convoluted AWD system like the GT-R?

I don't see how making the Viper "more like all of the other cars" is a selling point. If you want paddle shifters you already have countless options out there over a broad price range. The Viper is intended to be an engaging drivers' car, meaning that when you are in the driver's seat you actually have to drive...not pretend you are playing a video game and let onboard computers do 80%+ of the driving on your behalf.

Ralph has already stated that the Viper is intended to be a low-production, low sales volume vehicle and I'm fine with that. They are not looking to flood the market with Vipers, and their pricing reflects this. If you're put off by the Viper only having a manual trans (and the Gen 5's manual is one of the most precise, smoothest-shifting units out there) then maybe you should be shopping more sedate "geriatric-friendly" vehicles like a Porsche.

 

[PeerBlock]

There are performance oriented wounded warriors who cannot drive a stick. There are older members who have arthritis that eventually will not be able to drive a stick due to the knee pain and wrist pain caused by shifting. For those reasons, among others, costs permitting, an automatic option would be a good thing. An aftermarket installation is expensive. I think Mark J at Woodhouse has done a few.

If you think there needs to be automatic Vipers, primarily to accommodate handicapped old guys and veterans, maybe you should make it happen by footing the bill for said individuals to convert existing vipers into automatic.

 

[Bobpantax]

Thank G-d that you were not one of those veterans. And some day you too will be old even if today that seems far away. An optional automatic is just that. Optional. Empathy is not a bad thing.

 

[05Commemorative]

Again, why do you care if it is offered as an option? Seriously, I just don't get why you care what option is avail for someone else to buy. Nobody is saying ONLY have an auto. Did you have the same harsh views when ABS was offered or traction control or AC or power windows or leather or Nav? Where will all the crazy innovation stop? I get you want a bare bones car. You have it and can still get it.

Suppose you got your wish...then what? Are we going to have people complaning that RWD is "obsolete" and that new vipers should have a convoluted AWD system like the GT-R?

I don't see how making the Viper "more like all of the other cars" is a selling point. If you want paddle shifters you already have countless options out there over a broad price range. The Viper is intended to be an engaging drivers' car, meaning that when you are in the driver's seat you actually have to drive...not pretend you are playing a video game and let onboard computers do 80%+ of the driving on your behalf.

Ralph has already stated that the Viper is intended to be a low-production, low sales volume vehicle and I'm fine with that. They are not looking to flood the market with Vipers, and their pricing reflects this. If you're put off by the Viper only having a manual trans (and the Gen 5's manual is one of the most precise, smoothest-shifting units out there) then maybe you should be shopping more sedate "geriatric-friendly" vehicles like a Porsche.

 

[TrackAire]

Suppose you got your wish...then what? Are we going to have people complaning that RWD is "obsolete" and that new vipers should have a convoluted AWD system like the GT-R?

I don't see how making the Viper "more like all of the other cars" is a selling point. If you want paddle shifters you already have countless options out there over a broad price range. The Viper is intended to be an engaging drivers' car, meaning that when you are in the driver's seat you actually have to drive...not pretend you are playing a video game and let onboard computers do 80%+ of the driving on your behalf.

Ralph has already stated that the Viper is intended to be a low-production, low sales volume vehicle and I'm fine with that. They are not looking to flood the market with Vipers, and their pricing reflects this. If you're put off by the Viper only having a manual trans (and the Gen 5's manual is one of the most precise, smoothest-shifting units out there) then maybe you should be shopping more sedate "geriatric-friendly" vehicles like a Porsche.

The biggest problem with an quick shifting auto would be the rest of the cars system could not sustain the added performance on a road course (this is assuming the "auto" trans would not overheat during track type events).

One thing everybody forgets about is that the road course is a drag race from one corner to the next. Lets say because the Viper has a manual transmission, you have 4 seconds to get from the exit of a corner to the entry of the next. Now put in a fast shifting auto and cut that time down to say 3.2 seconds from exit to entry on the same part of the track. The cars brakes, tires and suspension would be taking on much higher load levels than what a manual car can produce. I'd bet those shorter "corner to corner" times make the energy levels (braking, suspension loads, tire grip) go up exponentially. All these factors add up to having to be a superior driver, period. You can put all the nannies you want on a car, if you're not braking correctly, hitting the apex correctly and shifting correctly you'll be slow or you will crash. The more the nannies kick in, the hotter the brakes get, the more you overheat the front tires, the slower you get.

Everybody talks about being a "drivers car" since you have to manually shift the car. But what about a vehicle that gives the driver much less time to make decisions between corner to corner? What about having to be even more precise on your entry, apex and car placement because you have less time than with a manual? What about braking technique, fade and stresses from a much higher entry speed? These are the things that make a great driver....rowing the gears is just a small part of it. It takes much more skill to drive fast with less times between corners than being able to heel/toe perfectly.

The Viper should come standard with a manual and have an option for an auto. My biggest concern is if the auto is taken to a road course, can it handle the heat and stay together? If it can, then the brakes will need to be upgraded at a bare minimum.

Cheers,
George

 

[drl650]

I am one of the few who needs the Viper to have an auto trans, Due to serious right shoulder issues, I have been waiting on buying my next Toy, which I would love a new Viper but if no auto I will have to go with the new Z06, I see several people on some other forums who would love the OPTION to have an Auto style trans offered in the Viper, It would increase sales. On another note does anyone here think the new Hellcat engine would find a place in the viper? It may already have been asked but I don't hang out here much. Hopefully I will become a Viper owner one day if they get an auto trans, In the meantime I will enjoy reading and learning about these great cars. Thanks,

 

[PeterMJ]

Suppose you got your wish...then what? Are we going to have people complaning that RWD is "obsolete" and that new vipers should have a convoluted AWD system like the GT-R?

I don't see how making the Viper "more like all of the other cars" is a selling point. If you want paddle shifters you already have countless options out there over a broad price range. The Viper is intended to be an engaging drivers' car, meaning that when you are in the driver's seat you actually have to drive...not pretend you are playing a video game and let onboard computers do 80%+ of the driving on your behalf.

Ralph has already stated that the Viper is intended to be a low-production, low sales volume vehicle and I'm fine with that. They are not looking to flood the market with Vipers, and their pricing reflects this. If you're put off by the Viper only having a manual trans (and the Gen 5's manual is one of the most precise, smoothest-shifting units out there) then maybe you should be shopping more sedate "geriatric-friendly" vehicles like a Porsche.

Fully agreed. BTW, who is that Ralph?

 

[Bobpantax]

The Hellcat engine and transmission will not fit in a Viper.

I am one of the few who needs the Viper to have an auto trans, Due to serious right shoulder issues, I have been waiting on buying my next Toy, which I would love a new Viper but if no auto I will have to go with the new Z06, I see several people on some other forums who would love the OPTION to have an Auto style trans offered in the Viper, It would increase sales. On another note does anyone here think the new Hellcat engine would find a place in the viper? It may already have been asked but I don't hang out here much. Hopefully I will become a Viper owner one day if they get an auto trans, In the meantime I will enjoy reading and learning about these great cars. Thanks,

 

[drl650]

Yea I had read that the trans would be an issue, But damn if the C7 Z06 Can come up with an auto trans I am sure Viper could? I did read in a rag I think that the hellcat engine or a variation of it may be a viper option down the road?

 

[Bobpantax]

The engine does not fit in the Gen V. It would require some significant changes which would require the car to be recertified. Let's see if sales have increased enough for the Viper program to be continued past the 2014 year and then perhaps we can politely lobby for an optional automatic transmission. It would be an expensive option because as a poster siad above, other components would also have to be changed to accomodate it. I wonder if one of the front engined Ferrari trannys could be adopted to a Viper. I doubt it. And the Maserati tranny is probably not robust enough even if it did fit since the power level in a Maserati is much lower.

 

[PeerBlock]

Thank G-d that you were not one of those veterans. And some day you too will be old even if today that seems far away. An optional automatic is just that. Optional. Empathy is not a bad thing.

Like I said, back up your empathy with your own money and pay for vets to have their vipers converted to auto...or are you just going to talk about it so you can feel good about yourself without taking any action?

I'm well aware of the fact that there may come a time when I'm too old to drive a car like the viper - and should I live to be that old, I will rest easy knowing I had my fun when I was younger. Old people have no business demanding younger generations accommodate them - they had their time, and after it has elapsed they need to step aside.

Again, why do you care if it is offered as an option? Seriously, I just don't get why you care what option is avail for someone else to buy. Nobody is saying ONLY have an auto. Did you have the same harsh views when ABS was offered or traction control or AC or power windows or leather or Nav? Where will all the crazy innovation stop? I get you want a bare bones car. You have it and can still get it.

So should there be a 4-cyl option for people who want the look of the viper but don't want to pay the gas bill? Or should we have an all-electric viper, because electric cars are "the future"? The Gen 5 is nicer in terms of fit-and-finish, creature comforts and such without sacrificing any of its distinct character. None of that is comparable to going from a manual to auto trans.

Everybody talks about being a "drivers car" since you have to manually shift the car. But what about a vehicle that gives the driver much less time to make decisions between corner to corner? What about having to be even more precise on your entry, apex and car placement because you have less time than with a manual? What about braking technique, fade and stresses from a much higher entry speed? These are the things that make a great driver....rowing the gears is just a small part of it. It takes much more skill to drive fast with less times between corners than being able to heel/toe perfectly.

Drivers' skill being equal, it's no secret that it's substantially easier to drive something like a GT-R closer to its full potential than it is to drive a Viper...and if you take two equal cars , except that one has auto and another has a manual, the latter should allow for the car's potential performance ceiling to be a bit higher on most road courses, since you are not relying on the car's pre-programmed shift points and policies - you can adapt them in real time as necessary.

The Viper should come standard with a manual and have an option for an auto. My biggest concern is if the auto is taken to a road course, can it handle the heat and stay together? If it can, then the brakes will need to be upgraded at a bare minimum.

If SRT wanted to sell more Vipers, it would make sense to offer an auto...but as they've stated before, they're not chasing vette-like sales volumes and so they really have no need to make an auto transmission available. Even though most people will agree that the viper is one badass car, it always has been a very specific vehicle that a small group of people would consider actually purchasing.

 

[PeterMJ]

If SRT wanted to sell more Vipers, it would make sense to offer an auto...but as they've stated before, they're not chasing vette-like sales volumes and so they really have no need to make an auto transmission available. Even though most people will agree that the viper is one badass car, it always has been a very specific vehicle that a small group of people would consider actually purchasing.

I actually think that if Chrysler wanted to sell more Vipers, they would invest in R&D leading to more power, less weight and convertible availability. Instead of slush box option, there should be a supercharger option. Viper is a limited market car regardless of transmission it offers and money spent on slush box development would have to be recuperated through raising its price even more. Water under the bridge regardless since at least IMO, there will be no 2015 Viper.

 

[PeterMJ]

Yea I had read that the trans would be an issue, But damn if the C7 Z06 Can come up with an auto trans I am sure Viper could? I did read in a rag I think that the hellcat engine or a variation of it may be a viper option down the road?

Corvette markets to different crowd and has always been available with automatic transmission, even now, when others offer DTC in lieu of a slush box.

 

[kdaviper]

I think we should wait and see the performance difference between the ZF-equipped Hellcat and the Tremic-quipped Hellcat. If the ZF offers a realistic performance gain over the tremic, then maybe an automatic SHOULD be on the table. As far as the ZF's durability goes, it has been extensively tested on the hellcat engine, which may surpass the Viper in Horsepower, and would be operating under higher loads because of the challenger's extra weight. And maybe the ZF doesn't fit in the Viper right now, but last MY it didn't fit in the challenger either, they reworked the floor plan to include extra room in the transmission tunnel.

Just some food for thought

 

[Bobpantax]

Peer Block said: "I'm well aware of the fact that there may come a time when I'm too old to drive a car like the viper - and should I live to be that old, I will rest easy knowing I had my fun when I was younger. Old people have no business demanding younger generations accommodate them - they had their time, and after it has elapsed they need to step aside."

Having an automatic option is smart marketing since older, established people generally have more money to spend on toys as evidenced by many of the posters on this site.

As for "stepping aside", my only suggestion is that if your parents are alive that you should discuss your views regarding older people with them. It was older people who acted to guarantee you your freedom. I admire cutures and ethnic groups that respect and cherish their elderly. They have the internal wisdom to view an elderly person as a type of time machine who can shed light on many things and events since they lived through them.

As for contributions to veterans, you are assuming that I do not. Your assumption is incorrect.

 

[PeterMJ]

I think we should wait and see the performance difference between the ZF-equipped Hellcat and the Tremic-quipped Hellcat. If the ZF offers a realistic performance gain over the tremic, then maybe an automatic SHOULD be on the table. As far as the ZF's durability goes, it has been extensively tested on the hellcat engine, which may surpass the Viper in Horsepower, and would be operating under higher loads because of the challenger's extra weight. And maybe the ZF doesn't fit in the Viper right now, but last MY it didn't fit in the challenger either, they reworked the floor plan to include extra room in the transmission tunnel.

Just some food for thought

Just like with Corvette, that will depend on gearing. Slush box may have advantage in 0-60 and/or ET but on the track, pretty doubtful, not to mention transmission cooling issues and weight of Challenger.

 

[05Commemorative]

There are some good and silly things said in here in response. 4 cyl, electric? seriously, you equate those items to an auto?

also, way over stating the sales. their goal was around 2000 a year. an auto would get them there. never a goal to get to 30k units a year.

Just asking you not go off the deep end with the camparisons.

Like I said, back up your empathy with your own money and pay for vets to have their vipers converted to auto...or are you just going to talk about it so you can feel good about yourself without taking any action?

I'm well aware of the fact that there may come a time when I'm too old to drive a car like the viper - and should I live to be that old, I will rest easy knowing I had my fun when I was younger. Old people have no business demanding younger generations accommodate them - they had their time, and after it has elapsed they need to step aside.



So should there be a 4-cyl option for people who want the look of the viper but don't want to pay the gas bill? Or should we have an all-electric viper, because electric cars are "the future"? The Gen 5 is nicer in terms of fit-and-finish, creature comforts and such without sacrificing any of its distinct character. None of that is comparable to going from a manual to auto trans.



Drivers' skill being equal, it's no secret that it's substantially easier to drive something like a GT-R closer to its full potential than it is to drive a Viper...and if you take two equal cars , except that one has auto and another has a manual, the latter should allow for the car's potential performance ceiling to be a bit higher on most road courses, since you are not relying on the car's pre-programmed shift points and policies - you can adapt them in real time as necessary.



If SRT wanted to sell more Vipers, it would make sense to offer an auto...but as they've stated before, they're not chasing vette-like sales volumes and so they really have no need to make an auto transmission available. Even though most people will agree that the viper is one badass car, it always has been a very specific vehicle that a small group of people would consider actually purchasing.