Help on pricing my 96 GTS, may sell it.

daveg

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The Viper has always been a niche car as we know, and I think the niche is even smaller now.
Less potential buyers, more available cars.
Jon, do you think the Niche is smaller because its directly related to the economy and the Niche will become larger when it come back around? I am a total newbee when it comes to these cars and you have far more experience. When it comes to60's Muscle cars however, forget it, I was born with a creeper on my back.
 
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PDCjonny

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Jon, do you think the Niche is smaller because its directly related to the economy and the Niche will become larger when it come back around? I am a total newbee when it comes to these cars and you have far more experience. When it comes to60's Muscle cars however, forget it, I was born with a creeper on my back.

And I stress my opinion IMO:

Small part economy and huge part desirability.
I think that the amount of people (younger to middle age guys) who are interested in a older car like a Gen 2 has shrunk a great deal in the past few years.
So many options out there now for fast cars or cheaply modded cars. And younger guys don't look at the Viper as an iconic car it's just an old car.
Rudimentary air conditioning, hot cockpit, ultra cheap interiors just don't make it now.
They can get Civics and Stangs and mod them up to power way beyond a Gen 2.
Lowered and stanced cars are the rage.

Finding that guy who thinks the older Gen 2's are cool is not easy anymore. Mostly they are gen 2 owners here like me.:)
I go to a lot of car events and guys just walk right by as they drool over the lowered and stanced Honda.
So the question is who is buying them now?
 

daveg

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And I stress my opinion IMO:

Small part economy and huge part desirability.
I think that the amount of people (younger to middle age guys) who are interested in a older car like a Gen 2 has shrunk a great deal in the past few years.
So many options out there now for fast cars or cheaply modded cars. And younger guys don't look at the Viper as an iconic car it's just an old car.
Rudimentary air conditioning, hot cockpit, ultra cheap interiors just don't make it now.
They can get Civics and Stangs and mod them up to power way beyond a Gen 2.
Lowered and stanced cars are the rage.

Finding that guy who thinks the older Gen 2's are cool is not easy anymore. Mostly they are gen 2 owners here like me.:)
I go to a lot of car events and guys just walk right by as they drool over the lowered and stanced Honda.
So the question is who is buying them now?
Hmmm… I am going to different shows than you are. I live in Mass and there is one Hugh show here every other Thursdays (2500 + cars show up on a regular basis) that are 90% Muscle / Classics I also hit up other shows and see the same thing (Thank god). … I think I would take the gas pipe if I were around ricers
 

slowfrc

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Well here goes..

First off, no abs translates to most as a plus, I for one and I am sure many more could chime in on the fact that your better off with no ABS since your not going to be driving this (hopefully) in wet weather, or driving the car to the point where the ABS will need to "help" you out of a high speed jam. ABS is not a welcomed option on the race track either,which is what Dodge at that time ,built it for as well.
Secondly, the 1996 GTS (which is what this thread is about) does not have side exhaust to burn your leg,and, if the car does have side exhaust and its something of your concern,then, maybe a nice corvette or stang without that option would be a bettr choice for a person with those concerns (I would wager that there are not many with that concern on a car like this)
Thirdly, this car was not built by Dodge with creature comforts in mind. It was a symbol of raw power and performance that the Old ACE AC (Cobra) was built around. It was not made for someone who wanted cruise control and power seats or a heads up display or 12 speaker sysytem. It was a street/track car at its finest at the time, and, Boy did it do that job!! This "poor quality build" won countless races and championships in the years to follow from this Iconic pillar. Alot more than what the 2013 car is set to do ( so far anyway). But wait, this new car has cruise and creature comforts and better build quality etc..just the way you like it yet,it seems like still there is alot of dissapointment in the air among many "true muscle car"enthusiasts who still wanted to retain the siamese version of that 1996 GTS,which,was in the words of Ralph Gilles during his "why this car" interview and whatit represents. I am sure your grandpa and mine were saying the same thing about those Cobras back then,"terrible fit and finish and go cart feel" but'look at them now...500,000 to millions in resale if you find one that is. Not to mention all the other poor quality build of the muscle eras of the late 60's and early 70's that still fetch far more dollars than many of todays great quality builds.
Fourthly, on those Cobras, and, as per your quote in the earlier post, " A huge part of what makes those old cobras and other high performance cars back then very valuable now is most were destroyed during racing or crashed at much higher rates than vipers are now by kids. Not the case with these cars". You think out of the @1500 Viper GTS's built in 1996 , there were not many destroyed from wanna be race car drivers. I would say almost half maybe gone. Thats only 16 years later. How many of these truly raw snakes will continue to bite back at the hands of inexperienced handlers,leaving them with just a glimpse of tragedy of what this car is capable of in the wrong hands. Don't underestimate this "real"modern muscle car that will only appreciate through time. Hands down !!

The 1992-1995 RT-10 cars brought the revolution....the 1996 GTS brought out the war....the war among auto companies to respect what Dodge and the Viper represent. They have, in every year since, tried to dethrone the "King" many a times,only to be had once again,(until now 2013), it remains to be seen.

Let me start by saying yes I love vipers and obviously they're unique cars, remember I have one (so you can stop accusing me of choosing comfort over the rawness of a viper) but you don't realize how other people see these cars.

Having no ABS is not a positive to 99% of the population. I'm sure a racer who grew up around non abs cars can wring a bit more performance out of a non abs car but the vast of the majority of the population hasn't grown up without abs and didn't want to. If no abs was such a good thing why does every car now have it. As to your point about not driving the car to the point where ABS helps, within the first two weeks I had my my non abs 98 GTS a woman merged into my lane while I was right next to her. I slammed on the brakes and locked the tires up. Yes ABS is useful in everyday driving, yes people want it.

GTS don't have side EXIT exhaust but the exhaust still runs under the door sills. It gets hot, if it didn't dodge wouldn't have put warning stickers on the car about it. Although it may not instantly burn the skin off your leg it's uncomfortable and the vast majority of people don't want to deal with it. I don't know how old you are but when older people get out of my car (think 50+) they swing both legs out then lift themselves up, this puts their calves in direct contact with the hot side sills.

No matter how much dodge wanted them to be, vipers are not old cobras. Old cobras are open cockpit sub 2500lb race cars with no a/c, radio, etc. Vipers are stripped down street cars. They have a roof, they have a/c, they have a radio, they are far different from the original cobras. The creature comforts I'm talking about aren't luxury items they're simple features that EVERY car has and manages to get right yet dodge couldn't. Take the heat, why on a 60k car they couldn't get it to blow out of the face level vents is beyond me. Why they couldn't put vents to the left of the steering wheel so that whole side of your body isn't hot/cold is beyond me. This is simple stuff and dodge screwed it up. It doesn't really bother me but it does for most everyone else. If dodge's less is more ethos was so good why have they abandoned it more and more with each new gen? The only people who are disappointed in 5th gens are those on here who like the rawness of the the earlier cars. Obviously dodge wants a to target a different buyer this time around, sales will tell how that works out for them.

Fit and finish has nothing to do with winning races, poor panel gaps don't matter on race cars so your point is nonexistent.

Given enough time and government regulating the fun out of things, everything from days long gone goes up in price, even mustangs as shown by what the 60s and early 70s ones are worth now. But it took 40 years to get there. Vipers will go up in price significantly but it'll take a while (thing 10+ more years), now they're just pain in the ass used cars that are better to look at than they are to drive in the eyes of most.

Slowfrc, I don’t agree. Go to any car show and the Stangs outnumber the Vipers 10 fold. Allot more Stangs were built than the Viper. I can remember back to the Mustang craze in the 80’s when they were pulling Stangs out of the Junk yard to fix them up and sell, Literally.
I also don’t agree with your fit and finish statement, I think the fit and finish is quite nice on my 96… You want to see poor fit and finish, Go take a look at an old Corvette with bonding seams popping out panels not fitted correctly etc and with no power steering, brakes and especially no ABS … Nerveless, you have people, including myself that love the car, I believe they refer to those older 60’s cars as “Muscle Cars” Hmmm Gee, kinda sounds allot like a Viper!!!! In time, the Viper will stake its claim in the world… I believe its just a waiting game..

The fit and finish on YOUR car may be nice but in general vipers are though to have poor fit and finish and for good reason. Although their may be good examples here and there when someone decides what to buy they go off generalities about a certain model. Again, they will be worth a lot more some day, just not anytime soon.

PS, viperjon, I'm 24 and bought my car 4 months ago for a guy of the same ago. Almost all of my friends my age like the car so there is some hope as far as these cars appealing to a younger crowd.
 
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daveg

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Slowfrc,
Thanks for taking time to write your point of view. Please don’t take this the wrong way. I have a Son your age and he may agree with what you’re saying but then again, maybe not (I think not because I look at his face when he hops in my car).

I am 50, my first car was my white 66 stang convertible and that had power nothing.. Correction, the cigarette lighter was power…. My second car was a 69 Camaro, same situation… My third car was my dream car, a 69 Corvette Roadster and I was a little younger than you when I bought it. That Corvette was my daily driver except for winters. The car is amazing. I am not sure if you have ever driven a Corvette with no power steering or brakes or even experienced a car that has cowl shake when hitting rough roads or a Muncie M22 tranny that sounds like an Ice cream truck when slowing down in first or second gear!!!! When that car is stopped and you have to turn the wheel all the way to one side to park, it’s a real treat and great for your forearms I might add…

At your age, you have no idea what it’s like to drive a car like the ones I described above. Maybe you have taken one for a spin but having one for a daily driver for years, probably not… These Vipers are Cadillac’s compare to what I have been describing!!!! I am not looking for a new Corvette with all the amenities that you describe. I don’t care about the heat not coming out the left side… Hell, I don’t even know if my heat works…. I don’t drive these cars in the rain, snow, winter or hot day’s, I take out my Mitsubishi 3000gt with great AC and Heat and a dome light that comes on when you open up the car door…

The difference between me and you, obviously age but more importantly, when I hop in my Viper, I am reliving my youth of the cars I have / had in the past. You are young and lucky to own one of these cars.

Of course, all of this is my take on these cars and what I am looking to get out of it and I am sure others, like yourself may feel different… That is why I “think” these cars will go up. When you become my age, you will remember your experiences, your good times and bad times with one of these cars and possibly want another…

Given everything you said though, I truly think your driving the wrong car!

Sorry for the tome!!!
 
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slitherv10

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Slither,
Thanks for taking time to write your point of view. Please don’t take this the wrong way. I have a Son your age and he may agree with what you’re saying but then again, maybe not (I think not because I look at his face when he hops in my car).

I am 50, my first car was my white 66 stang convertible and that had power nothing.. Correction, the cigarette lighter was power…. My second car was a 69 Camaro, same situation… My third car was my dream car, a 69 Corvette Roadster and I was a little younger than you when I bought it. That Corvette was my daily driver except for winters. The car is amazing. I am not sure if you have ever driven a Corvette with no power steering or brakes or even experienced a car that has cowl shake when hitting rough roads or a Muncie M22 tranny that sounds like an Ice cream truck when slowing down in first or second gear!!!! When that car is stopped and you have to turn the wheel all the way to one side to park, it’s a real treat and great for your forearms I might add…

At your age, you have no idea what it’s like to drive a car like the ones I described above. Maybe you have taken one for a spin but having one for a daily driver for years, probably not… These Vipers are Cadillac’s compare to what I have been describing!!!! I am not looking for a new Corvette with all the amenities that you describe. I don’t care about the heat not coming out the left side… Hell, I don’t even know if my heat works…. I don’t drive these cars in the rain, snow, winter or hot day’s, I take out my Mitsubishi 3000gt with great AC and Heat and a dome light that comes on when you open up the car door…

The difference between me and you, obviously age but more importantly, when I hop in my Viper, I am reliving my youth of the cars I have / had in the past. You are young and lucky to own one of these cars.

Of course, all of this is my take on these cars and what I am looking to get out of it and I am sure others, like yourself may feel different… That is why I “think” these cars will go up. When you become my age, you will remember your experiences, your good times and bad times with one of these cars and possibly want another…

Given everything you said though, I truly think your driving the wrong car!

Sorry for the tome!!!


I am assuming your directing this to slowfrc.....you started the post with slithr....I am not 24, I am 45. But, well put as far as age factors and the relations between the cars and their ages. I too have owned older muscle cars although not as nice or as old as yours but, I did just sell a 74 Corvette Roadster with the 454 Big block in it and had it rebuilt to @500Hp and 550Tq and the driving experience in that car far outweighed the Viper. But, I just realized it was time for it to go as times are a changing and the more money I put into the car the more I am losing.
 

daveg

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I am assuming your directing this to slowfrc.....you started the post with slithr....I am not 24, I am 45. But, well put as far as age factors and the relations between the cars and their ages. I too have owned older muscle cars although not as nice or as old as yours but, I did just sell a 74 Corvette Roadster with the 454 Big block in it and had it rebuilt to @500Hp and 550Tq and the driving experience in that car far outweighed the Viper. But, I just realized it was time for it to go as times are a changing and the more money I put into the car the more I am losing.
Sorry, yes was meant for Slowfrc.. I made the correction above..
 

slitherv10

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Let me start by saying yes I love vipers and obviously they're unique cars, remember I have one (so you can stop accusing me of choosing comfort over the rawness of a viper) but you don't realize how other people see these cars.

Having no ABS is not a positive to 99% of the population. I'm sure a racer who grew up around non abs cars can wring a bit more performance out of a non abs car but the vast of the majority of the population hasn't grown up without abs and didn't want to. If no abs was such a good thing why does every car now have it. As to your point about not driving the car to the point where ABS helps, within the first two weeks I had my my non abs 98 GTS a woman merged into my lane while I was right next to her. I slammed on the brakes and locked the tires up. Yes ABS is useful in everyday driving, yes people want it.

GTS don't have side EXIT exhaust but the exhaust still runs under the door sills. It gets hot, if it didn't dodge wouldn't have put warning stickers on the car about it. Although it may not instantly burn the skin off your leg it's uncomfortable and the vast majority of people don't want to deal with it. I don't know how old you are but when older people get out of my car (think 50+) they swing both legs out then lift themselves up, this puts their calves in direct contact with the hot side sills.

No matter how much dodge wanted them to be, vipers are not old cobras. Old cobras are open cockpit sub 2500lb race cars with no a/c, radio, etc. Vipers are stripped down street cars. They have a roof, they have a/c, they have a radio, they are far different from the original cobras. The creature comforts I'm talking about aren't luxury items they're simple features that EVERY car has and manages to get right yet dodge couldn't. Take the heat, why on a 60k car they couldn't get it to blow out of the face level vents is beyond me. Why they couldn't put vents to the left of the steering wheel so that whole side of your body isn't hot/cold is beyond me. This is simple stuff and dodge screwed it up. It doesn't really bother me but it does for most everyone else. If dodge's less is more ethos was so good why have they abandoned it more and more with each new gen? The only people who are disappointed in 5th gens are those on here who like the rawness of the the earlier cars. Obviously dodge wants a to target a different buyer this time around, sales will tell how that works out for them.

Fit and finish has nothing to do with winning races, poor panel gaps don't matter on race cars so your point is nonexistent.

Given enough time and government regulating the fun out of things, everything from days long gone goes up in price, even mustangs as shown by what the 60s and early 70s ones are worth now. But it took 40 years to get there. Vipers will go up in price significantly but it'll take a while (thing 10+ more years), now they're just pain in the ass used cars that are better to look at than they are to drive in the eyes of most.



Well, I do agree with you in some but ABS in my opinion belongs on daily drivers as you said. The Viper was not intended to be a daily driver in my opinion. Although some do drive it daily most don't. As far as heat is concerned, once again it was not meant to be driven on days cold enough for you to need heat, as it does have enough heat coming from inside the cabin anyway (that is one fault if your counting of Dodge). I have a Mercedes that does not vent heat out of the center console as well. Not an issue. As you seen with the introduction of the 2013 Viper. There were many dissapointments with the performance of the car. No one realy cared about the creature comforts,it was the HP numbers that frazzald everyones feathers. Proving once again that creature comforts are not what the die hard viper lovers want from the Viper. The last 4 Generations were built mainly around Hp numbers and blowing away the competition,which they did. That is what everyone is proud of in the Viper,not that the heating vents don't heat properly and or the side sills may be too hot or the leather feels cheap,no, none of that came to mind in those years,only the critics and the Non viper lovers would critisize that in order to find reason behind hating the car that would blow them away on the street and or track. So they did a great job in making SRT and dodge lower its standards and give them what they wanted in order to be able to beat us in the performance aspect, which so far the numbers do but it remains to be seen on the track. Too bad in my opinion. If SRT would have stuck to its guns and continued the HP wars it would have gotten a much bigger splash and following for this new snake. Again it remains to be seen
The Viper and esp. the 1996 Viper were designed in Part with help from Carrol Shelby. One reason being was the fact that they wanted to build a car that would commemorate the Ace AC Cobra. Thus the Blue and white stripes and thus the options and finish it got inside and out. So, to answer your question. This car was built around the Cobras relation. They just added a few modern creature comforts to it like a roof and a stereo. The 1992-1995 Viper had the soft top targa top which was to relate to the cobras. As per your original post, you were complaining about the creature comforts it got and now you answered your own question. This is why they didnt add so much comfort to this car once again. It was to be a strictly performance and stylish car as is the old Cobras. They put all their money towards building the engine and performance aspects of this car not the creature comforts. Once again they accomplished that as they did win many championships and races in the years to come. That was their goal and that is what they did with this car.
I have to disagree with your thinking behind what younger people are looking for today. The reason they are looking for hondas and tuners is because #1 they are cheaper to insure and #2 they are cheaper to buy. You are lucky you have one at such a young age. Many cannot get insured or afford a 40K+car at your age and esp younger which is where most of the tuner cars are bought by. I have gone to tuner shows here with my son who is 17 with the Viper and Ill tell you, they all forget the tuners and flock to the Viper up here in Toronto Canada. I do have to admit though, they are more inticed by my moded Viper than the stock one. Which is an argument I have made in other threads regarding the value of a Moded viper against a stock Viper. Most here feel a moded viper with body panels and motor upgrades should get less in the market than a stock one. In my opinion, in todays time and age, tastefully done moded Vipers will fetch more in the near future than their stock counterparts. As quoted also by Barret Jackson and the proof during the sales as most custom oldies are fetching more money these days than the stock versions. Look up some of the sales in teh last few years and youll see what I mean. I am not saying B J is the end all to the pricing market but, it does give you a glimpse of what is to come. As did my venture to the tuner shows. I am not saying all Vipers will get the attention, but, I own both a stock and moded 1996 Blue and whites and the moded one gets 3 times the attention the stock one gets. I mean well deserved attention not "what the hell is that peice of crap" attention. It does hold its own nowadays with the younger Generation of people and what they want. Just my opinion ofcourse. The 1996 Viper GTS Blue and white will forever be the foundation of whats to come with SRT and the future Vipers. We seen it in 2006 Commemorative edition Blue and whites and the 2010 Blue and whites and now the 2013 Blue and whites ,which will be limited to 150 cars in that color. That tradition will carry on with the blue and whites forever with SRT and the Viper. All other Viper colors are mere comsmetic reasons or a one time edition for that year. Esp the yellow ones :D
 

slowfrc

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Slither and daveg, you're missing my point. I'm explaining faults that many others see in the car hence why the demand is as it is here in the US. As I've said before I obviously have one which shows you what I think of the car. You guys can continue building them up to be mythical creatures and price them as such but if they're not moving when priced at 45k then they're definitely not going to move at 60k.
 

slitherv10

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Slither and daveg, you're missing my point. I'm explaining faults that many others see in the car hence why the demand is as it is here in the US. As I've said before I obviously have one which shows you what I think of the car. You guys can continue building them up to be mythical creatures and price them as such but if they're not moving when priced at 45k then they're definitely not going to move at 60k.

Then if their not moving at all, why keep lowering the price?..lol..If its not moving at 45K either, then keep it at 60 ...its obviously not a price issue as it is more of a "i don't need to buy a car right now" issue. As far as people not buying them because of faults. That is not the reason at all. Many are buying those cars in specific (1996-1999) because of the forged parts and 708 cams which allow you to push that motor to more limits. I don't want to over due this post. In my opinion, and mark my words, these cars will hold theier own in some years to come. You being that young, if you hold on to them,you realize what I mean. Its my beliefe anyway,not because I own one,but,because I feel this kind of car deserves that recongition and will in the future. Or take your money and put it in realestate and get more bang for your buck:D
 

speedracervr4

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Then if their not moving at all, why keep lowering the price?..lol..If its not moving at 45K either, then keep it at 60

It's reality, the seller needs/wants to sell the vehicle for what ever reason. If the vehicle is priced outside of today's market value then it won't sell. Not everybody can afford to or want to hold on to these cars for 20 years for there value to come up.

OP, Great looking car! I would start at 48k, then 45k after a month or so. Good luck
 

PDCjonny

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It's a car not an investment.
If that's what you're holding it for you're in for a serious wakeup call.

If you had bought the car new at 72K+ sticker plus taxe etc, put it in a time bubble, housed maintained and insured it for 16 years.
You could sell it today for maybe 50-52K. On it's best day. Nice going.

Sweet. Oh but wait we are going to do that another 25 years. Okie Dokie.
 

Invasivore

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And I stress my opinion IMO:


Finding that guy who thinks the older Gen 2's are cool is not easy anymore. Mostly they are gen 2 owners here like me.:)
I go to a lot of car events and guys just walk right by as they drool over the lowered and stanced Honda.
So the question is who is buying them now?

I firmly believe the gen 2 viper will very much be the next 67-69 camaro in a decade or so. The gen 2 has a timeless style. Even Dodge is trying to revert back to gen 2 styling in the gen 5 body. The 69 camaro was cheap all day until people woke up and realized they will never top the original styling. It may take a while, but mark my words it will happen!

I didn't buy my car because of this reason though. I bought it because I wanted an exotic and a muscle car, and there is no other that accomplishes this more than the gen 2 viper!
 
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slowfrc

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It's a car not an investment.
If that's what you're holding it for you're in for a serious wakeup call.

If you had bought the car new at 72K+ sticker plus taxe etc, put it in a time bubble, housed maintained and insured it for 16 years.
You could sell it today for maybe 50-52K. On it's best day. Nice going.

Sweet. Oh but wait we are going to do that another 25 years. Okie Dokie.

This guy knows what's up.
 

Lemon_Twist

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I don't see a line of people lined up for the other cars I mentioned that keep their prices where they should be. People are not lining up for lamborghinis and the supply and demand there is as high if not higher than Vipers. Like I said in another post, there are @200 Vipers for sale world wide. There are that many ferraris and lambos as well. The reason I am related to those cars with the Viper, which , some people would not put in the same catergory, is because at that time (1996 in specific), the Viper controled the HP wars and the attention of all the other auto companies out there. Bar none !! It proved itself in the races and on the street for many years after esp 1998-2000 in the Lemans classes and there-in. Anyway, its all to personal opinion in the end, I know that, but, Like i said, I am doing my part and will by keeping my Vipers for as long as I can. When the time comes though, i will be asking what I feel this car is worth, not what the buyers want to pay. Like i said before, I would love to pay less for a Lambo or such,but,they won't budge.Not now,not never. 1986 countach is worth over 300000 and its performance and quality is a mere % compared to its current models but, demands the respect and thus the price. As should this car in particular. Just my opinion again.



Look up autotrader.ca and search for Vipers here in Canada and see what they are fetching. Not just asking prices, 49,500-60,000,they have sold in that range. Again, it is unfortunate what is happening there in the USA. It is one of the biggest economies in the world. Thus, when things go downhill there as they have in the last while, the world market follows but, if everyone sticks together and sells their products at what they are asking/worth, then, you will have no choice but to pay that price if you want it.

Slither......have you actually talked to anyone who sold a Viper in Ontario? I sold a 10,000 mile 97 B/W two years ago for $42K to the only guy who called on the car that was serious about making a purchase. Like many of the others mentioned in this thread it was never driven in the rain, always pampered, all original documentation, etc.... I can relate to ViperJon with the $32-35K offers......had plenty of those. The $60K GTS Vipers I see listed on autotrader.ca have been there all summer and will continue to be there next summer as well I'm sure. You seem like a stand up guy and I appreciate your passion for these cars, but you are very naiive when it comes to the collector car market. Sellers have no say in the market price of their vehicle......assuming they really are trying to sell, lol
 

daveg

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Let me make myself clear.. I never said what Jon's Viper should sell for or what it’s worth… I
  1. Nearly stated that I believe the car will go up in time….
  2. I stated the reasons why I purchased my car
  3. I stated I don’t give a rat’s ass about heat and where it blows from and the sills getting a bit warm.
  4. I stated that driving the Viper is like driving a Cadillac compared to what I use to / still do and love to drive!
To me, the Viper is a modern day Muscle car and that’s what I love about it. I love the go kart feel, the raw horsepower and the style, not its “Luxury or lack of Luxury items” I am a Vette guy and have been for decades and I could have gone out and purchased practically any comfy new / newer Corvette I wanted but did I, Negative…. I love what the Viper was built for and what it represents….
 
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slitherv10

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Slither......have you actually talked to anyone who sold a Viper in Ontario? I sold a 10,000 mile 97 B/W two years ago for $42K to the only guy who called on the car that was serious about making a purchase. Like many of the others mentioned in this thread it was never driven in the rain, always pampered, all original documentation, etc.... I can relate to ViperJon with the $32-35K offers......had plenty of those. The $60K GTS Vipers I see listed on autotrader.ca have been there all summer and will continue to be there next summer as well I'm sure. You seem like a stand up guy and I appreciate your passion for these cars, but you are very naiive when it comes to the collector car market. Sellers have no say in the market price of their vehicle......assuming they really are trying to sell, lol

Actualy to answer your question, I do know of 2 Vipers a 1997 ,like yours and a 1996 both Blue and whites that got sold for 51000 for the 97 and 53000 for the 96 and one is a very good freind of mine who still has it. I looked into the 97 and it got sold for just under asking at the time. Theres a 1997 right now selling for 550000 with 30000K's on it. Im sorry to hear that you gave your car away and thought it would sell over night. Again your one of those that prices to sell and not what its worth.If you were in dire straights to pay your mortgage or feed the kids I understand, but, if you sold it just to unload it then unfortunate. The 60K vipers have been there since last year and so have the 110K 2010 cars and so have the ZR1's and many of the Lambos and porsches and ferraris as well...what does that state,,nothing...its not like everyone is buying a supercar on a daily basis. They are not daily drivers (-porsche). That does not mean you price them cheaper...lol... As you can see by the pricing in the MARKET they are priced as they should be, otherwise why would they all price them at that price...its not that one guy is priced in the high 50's to 60 K, its a few of them....the Market price right?..that is what they are going for, that is what the market is saying and so live with it...if they were priced cheap they would be priced right, right ?....lol..comon...I have seen and there are cars on there for 30K that don't sell..so what should they do, price a Viper for 15K and sell it...lol..comon..thats narrow minded thinking. Again, I say I wish the lambo sellers would think that way and sell their cars for 50K...lol...anyway..on to some serious talk...

As you have stated in the last few lines of your comment "Sellers have no say in the market price of their vehicle".
I agree, but once again you are all missing my point. The "MARKET" as you call it is what?? Its us people,us sellers that make the market what it is. So, on that note, I would have to disagree. We do have a say,and,what we say is what the market will end up.

Take for example....there are 100 Vipers for sale and they are all priced from 80-110k no matter what year or model...what would a buyer expect to pay for a viper if all 100 had them priced in that range....80-100K right ? Now ...take that 100 and one person prices his at 75K,then that would sell first more than likely and bring th market down because the other guys want to sell their cars first so they lower theirs to 72K and then the next guy to 70K and that so on and so on. Who dictated the market there,....THE SELLERS...US...we are the market, we make the market go round. If this car was respected and we all stuck to our guns with pricing then it would stay where it is. Ofcourse that would be in a perfect world right?....Well then, as I noted earlier, the cheapest Lambo that I found when looking out there was 89K for a 2004 Gallardo. why wasnt there one for 85K posted a week later and another for 80K a week later and so on with those or any of the other magical cars ( ferraris,porsche,ZR1's) that I and, I am sure we all here believe it to be? You know why? because the truly believe in their cars and what they stand for. Thats why. I truly am one of those with the Viper. Yes maybe my passion for one is taking over the reality of today but, I am one that will stick to my guns and hope that there may be more in the future that follow my instinct. Only with that will the Viper truly get its recongnition in the market.
There are alot of people out there who would love to own a Viper, only reason they dont get one is the same reason they dont get any other 60K + car...what are those reasons...all personal. But, its not that they don't want one because of creature comforts or poor craftmanship, its not that they would rather have a lambo at that price as many do consider the maintanance and upkeep of the exotics. The Viper is my my opinion the best bang for the buck when it comes to HP,attention,maintanance,reliability,and overall crafmanship than any other vehicle out there. If there are and or were any doubts of what this list is composed of, and there was in the begginning of production, they proved themselves and shut everyone up on the street and the track with back to back wins at the 24hr of lemans. So poor fit and finish and low quality builds don't get you there against the Porsches,Vettes,BMW's,Aston Martins and the like that they compete against to gain that title !!

When you have something to say, raly think about the WHOLE picture of this car, not just what you feel about it today and what the Market or everyone else dictates. Be a leader...not a follower and better things will come.
I will continue to be a leader and treat what I have with utmost respect and put it at the top where it belongs. I am not a millionaire who looks at my belongings as a mere toy and a disposable item. I truly do love what I own and its not just another toy I add to my collection,its something I cherish and believe in or I don't buy it and, when it is time to sell, I price it accordingly. People who low ball the price of a Viper are teh ones looking for an attention getter and want the fame that comes with it....you gotta pay for that pal...or get yourself a Vette or stang which does the same right?..nope..nadda !!..well then...you gotta Pay for the stature of this car. Someone who truly believes for what these cars stand for will pay what they are worth and what the asking prices are at the time. Too bad they are so cheap !! It lets everyone in on the action at that price. Thats the same feeling you would get driving a Lambo but, the Lambo market knows and TRULY believes that ,thus, they price their cars accordingly. You want the fame of driving that car, you gotta pay. Here on the VCA most just brag about how great this car is and all the attention you get with it and if you sell it and get a Vette or stang how you will miss all that. Yet, when its time to sell their car, they price it like those cars...lol..too funny..

Let me make myself clear.. I never said what Jon's Viper should sell for or what it’s worth… I
  1. Nearly stated that I believe the car will go up in time….
  2. I stated the reasons why I purchased my car
  3. I stated I don’t give a rat’s ass about heat and where it blows from and the sills getting a bit warm.
  4. I stated that driving the Viper is like driving a Cadillac compared to what I use to / still do and love to drive!
To me, the Viper is a modern day Muscle car and that’s what I love about it. I love the go kart feel, the raw horsepower and the style, not its “Luxury or lack of Luxury items” I am a Vette guy and have been for decades and I could have gone out and purchased practically any comfy new / newer Corvette I wanted but did I, Negative…. I love what the Viper was built for and what it represents….

What he said ^^^^^^^^:headbang:
 
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PDCjonny

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Slither there are just some points you make that are nonsensical.
Mainly:

You are saying that you as a purchaser would be more than happy to pay the highest possible price on the car, regardless of real world value.
If you were looking to buy one and there were three equal cars you would most certainly take the higest priced one, doing your part to keep values high.

Viper owners need to collude with each so that everyone agrees to sell their car at a higher price, thereby forces the market to be higher overall.
Forget if you need the money or have an immediate need to sell, you must insist on 15K more than market value or no sale.

As absurd as these points sound, thats what you are saying should be done to artificially inflate selling prices.
 

slitherv10

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Slither there are just some points you make that are nonsensical.
Mainly:

You are saying that you as a purchaser would be more than happy to pay the highest possible price on the car, regardless of real world value.
If you were looking to buy one and there were three equal cars you would most certainly take the higest priced one, doing your part to keep values high.

Viper owners need to collude with each so that everyone agrees to sell their car at a higher price, thereby forces the market to be higher overall.
Forget if you need the money or have an immediate need to sell, you must insist on 15K more than market value or no sale.

As absurd as these points sound, thats what you are saying should be done to artificially inflate selling prices.

No what I am saying is...if the market value of your particular car is what it is in the market, then, you should price it accordingly..For instance...if there are 3 Vipers that all have similar characteristics...low miles , well pampered, same color etc...price it at market value with the rest...not one for 55000,the other for 54500 and the other for 42000...the later being unfair to the market and lowering it considerably thus...the new MARKET value of the car. That is what I am saying. If you need to get rid of it quick because of some afformentioned reason, I understand, but, in that case, do like we always did, put it in an auction and let it sell. As i have mentioned earlier, the auctions are getting more money than market value...why...because the tables have turned because of us private sellers. In those days the auction sold cars that people needed to get rid of quickly and needed the money now!! People went to the auction to pick up cheap cars. What was wrong with them and who the original owner was and how he took care of it was not important and thus you bought a car blind and thus the lower price at acution. If you wanted to know some history and meet the owner and what not,you bought private and payed alittle more for those services and information. In the private market you should be asking more than at auctions period. This is not the case today. Again , the reasoning behind that is because we. the markett, have taken it upon ourselves to "auction"our cars off to the hisghest bidder. I say leave that to the auctions. Not so though. That in a nutshell is what is going on and has affected the market of these and every car. Like I said earlier...you have to think as a WHOLE, not as you do and what is in front of you now....take off the blinkers and see why things are the way they are and try and do something about it, not just pass the buck aside and be a follower. You want to sell your car below market value?...take it to the auction..that is where all that stuff happens and your car will sell. Don't put it on the open market and bring everyone else's price down because you have personal reasons or problems that you need to sell cheap. Be anonumous and take it to auction. Leave all of us others out here to value our cars accordingly and what they are realy worth. Its sad to see. I for one will not participate. If I need to sell, I will sell at Barrett Jackson or the like. Yes I will buy private and th cheapest one out there, Why?...because I would tak advantage of someone elses misfortune or ill advised reason for selling at such a low price and take that car to auction and sell it for more. Something they should have done. They are the same people that are not listening and or following the market or trends today. Why would I sell private and deal with people day in and day out when I can sell with no headaches and in a few hours at auction for more money and not have to deal with the buyer if things go wrong...its a no brainer. Ill take that option today. Like i said earlier...if anyone is willing to sell thier vipers for 30%below market value..im buying. Im in the market to make money as much as I am in the market to sell at the right place, not privately thats for sure. I don't need 30-32K offers from people, the auctions today will get you more and not have to deal with retards like like.
 

slitherv10

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Go on this link below and under model yar put viper and it will show you what each car got sold at...you will be surpirsed at what the real world is willing to pay for vipers,,,not what you guys are willing to sell them at privately....Viperjon you said to leave Barrett Jackson out of this as they are not a suitable place to market your Viper...I say if I can get the numbers that they aer selling at there?..why would I saell private...lol...proof is in the pudding there..they are SELLING at those prices not just asking. then tell me what A 1996 GTS in excellent condition is worth...42000...lol..ya ok..maybe in your eyes and unfortunatly alot of others looking to unload,,,but for real buyers out there...they are paying what the car is worth at reputable places. They seen adds for less but, they are paying more...why?...because that is what an honest price is for a reputable car.Period !

Here is the link...

add Viper under model year and click on the pictures of the viper sand you will see what they sold at. Yes ther are a few that are priced "private" prices,but, they are priced accordingly...conditon,milage etc....if you click on all the cars and note the selling prices...youll be ashamed at what you see out here in the private sector. You will realize what your car is worth..not what shmengees out here are wanting to pay for your car because they want to steal it from you because they know of all the misfortunes that are going on in the States right now with people. Don't be fooled....these cars are still fetching top dollars from people who care. Proof is below.....

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application/onlinesubmission/archivecarlist.aspx
 
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speedracervr4

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If you need to get rid of it quick because of some afformentioned reason, I understand, but, in that case, do like we always did, put it in an auction and let it sell. As i have mentioned earlier, the auctions are getting more money than market value...why...because the tables have turned because of us private sellers. In those days the auction sold cars that people needed to get rid of quickly and needed the money now!! People went to the auction to pick up cheap cars. What was wrong with them and who the original owner was and how he took care of it was not important and thus you bought a car blind and thus the lower price at acution.

If I put my Viper in any other auction other than BJ it will not sell for more than if I sold it. Other auctions will not bring the same people (with tons of money) to the table.
 

speedracervr4

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.you will be surpirsed at what the real world is willing to pay for vipers,,,not what you guys are willing to sell them at privately....Viperjon you said to leave Barrett Jackson out of this as they are not a suitable place to market your Viper...I say if I can get the numbers that they aer selling at there?..why would I saell private...lol...proof is in the pudding there..they are SELLING at those prices not just asking. then tell me what A 1996 GTS in excellent condition is worth...42000...lol..ya ok..maybe in your eyes and unfortunatly alot of others looking to unload,,,but for real buyers out there...they are paying what the car is worth at reputable places. They seen adds for less but, they are paying more...why?...because that is what an honest price is for a reputable car.Period !

Real world, LOL. Barret Jackson is not the real world..more like the 1% who don't mind paying commission fees of 10-16% on top of the selling price. Honest price? No in the real world people will buy the best value vehicle and the sellers will price accordingly.
 

Camfab

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All this yammering back and forth etc. etc. and we don't even know what the guys selling it for, or if he's even selling it......................
 

harley56

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All this yammering back and forth etc. etc. and we don't even know what the guys selling it for, or if he's even selling it......................

Now that's really funny, and true! In California the market for the guys car, in my humble opinion is $45K, Not $50K and not $40K. Will be interesting to see if it ever gets listed.
 

slitherv10

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Real world, LOL. Barret Jackson is not the real world..more like the 1% who don't mind paying commission fees of 10-16% on top of the selling price. Honest price? No in the real world people will buy the best value vehicle and the sellers will price accordingly.

lol...I didn't realize that B J was a fantasy world. I gues I am dreaming when I watch the show. Or maybe its just a show made for TV and its not realy real. lol..comon speedy, if the cars are getting that much at that and that only auction, then, sell it there !! why settle for less, they have those auctions 4 times a year and different parts of th country. I am sure one is close to youand everyone else . Just wait and take it there. Even with the commissions your ahead of the game. I for one would not settle on some people bombarding me with low ball offers and even then the waist your time coming out and making appointments and waisting my time and efforts to eventualy not even buying the car but just window shopping. Take it there and have it sold in hours my freind, It is real,,,I promise you. It is real people buying those cars.
Your right, in a "real"world people would buy the best value and sellers would be pricing accordingly,yet,it does not work out that way. Thats the argument. Pricing your low milage showrrom condition car privately and getting offers that a high mileage wrecked car would be getting is just not the real world to me. Thats a fantasy world that buyers are living in and I will take no part in that. At least at Barrett Jackson you have real car buyers who appreciate the cars and are there to buy,not window shop,or break my B- -ls with absurb offers. Only catch is,yes,your car has to be close to prestine as possible,otherwise,your giong to get chump change.But cars like I am sure viperjon and most of the rest of us that keep them in tip top shape and were getting offers worthy of stangs and vettes is a sad story my freind.
 

PDCjonny

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Well Slither as I've said I admire your Viper enthusiasm and guys like you keep the Viper heritage going.
When I bought my first Viper (red '98) back in 2004 I was so excited I couldn't sleep.
Three years later I got my Blue and White from a collector in New Jersey and again..one of the great days in my life.
Since then two more, both Gen 4 ACR's so thats four in total.

As of last Saturday I sold my Blue and White and traded in my 2010 ACR so I'm Viper-less first time since 2004.
Unfortunetley I got real world money for the GTS, not BJ money. But it is what it is.
Keep up the fight.
 

slitherv10

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Heres is but another reason these 96 GTS's are the Sh_t

This is todays new thread from DaveGF quote.....

" Bragging info for Gen II owners to use at VOI
My 1996 GTS took 1st in GT-U and 1st overall Sunday in the NARRA event at Texas World Speedway. The field contained, among others, 5 Comp Coupes and 6 ACR-Xs - 2 of which were running nitrous! "
 

AFL in NJ

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two more pics:

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Regards,
Aaron
 

1TONY1

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If you can hold off until the first batch of 2013 cars come out it will give you an advantage over others. There will be a run of B/W's first.
At VOI looking across the parking lot at a 2013 B/W on the drive course I looked at my buddy and said "I just saveds 100 grand, that looks just like my car" :) I am serious though....you car will be more desirable when this happens.

Somebody somewhere will pay a good price for a low mileage B/W. The low mileage cars are getting rare. It just takes finding the right buyer.

1996 GTS, blue/white
4300 orig miles(exercise miles only)
All stock
Never tracked
Undercarriage and frame detailed. Looks brand new
2nd owner, bought it in 2000 from collector, he never titled it.
Mint cond
3 set of wheels(orig wheels still have orig tires on them. Currently wearing the bbs style wheels off a gts/acr.
Front and rear clear bra, no rash of any kind on front air dam/spoiler
70th 96 gts built, the first 100 were truly hand built with the finest panels and fit.
No paint work ever
Have all recommended recall upgrades, but never installed. Frame reenforcement bracing, fan upgrade still in box.
Tia,
Ed
 

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