Hi guys!

[DEADEYE]

Hi, it's an honor to be here on this board with you guys. I've been lightly lurking on this board for a few years but havn't registered until now. I have registered because in about 5 months time I should be the proud owner of a gen 2 Viper. It gave me the chills writting that last scentence lol. I'll be looking for an '01 and up GTS or ACR GTS and I need your help dispelling a few rumors and myths that I've heard. It's a bit early but there's no time like the present to begin my research. I don't know why, but just about everyone that I've mentioned my potential Viper purchase to is advising against it. A sales manager at a Dodge dealership advised against it, stating that it's only a car to go clubbing with and nothing more. One previous RT-10 owner told me it was a fast POS and traded it for a blown/ sprayed NSX. Another guy (who is on at least his second GTS, one of which was a sprayed venom 650) told me that my Z06 is a better car and advised against it unless I have something else as a daily driver (which I will have). Yet another guy who owns 2 Vipers (a gen 1 and a gen 2 GTS) has stated that it's a poorly engineered car (to put it into perspective, he owns a Diablo, prowler, Lotus, and several mercedes). There's only one guy I know of that has never said anything bad about his Vipers (he owns a silver RT-10, silver SRT-10, and a SRT-Ram). Funny thing is that despite all the advise against it is kinda making the case for me to get the car even more lol! The Viper is my kinda car and you guys know what I mean. I can't really talk to anyone else about it because they think I'm nuts. It does sound a bit crazy to lust after an expensive uncomfortable toy. I want a car that will **** out the posers from the true enthusiasts. A car that dare's me to drive it. A car that makes every mile behind the wheel a special experience. What scares me are the unreliability rumors. I hear that blown head gaskets run rampant throughout the Viper's history along with overheating engine issues and a Mopar quality that *****. I've never owned a Mopar so I don't know. I've researched the consumer reports and they say that reliability is above average. They even say my current car is below average and I love that car! Can you guys tell me what to look for in a preowned GTS so I can better make an informed decision when I make my purchase? I've sat in them and raced against them but I've never driven one. I'll try to find a kind Viper owner to take me for a spin or *gasp* let me drive their snake so I'll know what to look foreward to. Thanks for your time!

 

[PhoenixGTS]

Best enjoyed as a second car. In six months of ownership I have discovered three chronic design problems: 1) pre-ABS brakes **** because of balance problem due to lack of rear bias; 2) gearing is ridiculously tall especially if you run 19" tires; 3) if you live where it is hot, just like all big block muscle cars the cooling system is insufficient. And I'll add on that the halfshafts are suspect strength-wise. That said, the car is easy to work on and the parts are relatively inexpensive and pretty widely available. My GTS is my daily driver, but as soon as the weather gets hot again I am going to have to get another car. Best as a second car that you like to tinker with.

 

[CitySnake]

1) A 2001 HAS ABS so that's not a problem.
2) Many of the problems you mentioned are more Gen 1 issues than Gen 2 (especially the later Gen2).
3) A good mechanic will drastically enhance your use and enjoyment of the car.
4) On my 4th year of ownership (21,000 miles) and I have had only 1 single problem when the factory battery went dead after 30 months....and was replaced under warranty.

Much of the "rep" is due to the $25,000 difference in the price between Vipers and Vettes!

 

[KenH]

Most owners seem to either be very enthusiastic about their cars, or they don't remain owners for very long. Vipers simply aren't for everyone and that is part of their charm.

The only issue with the '01/'02 cars that you are considering is that some have spun the plastic water pump impeller, causing them to overheat. No head gasket or other significant problems with those years. I have over 20K miles on my '01 GTS with only one warranty problem which was traced to a pinched ground wire. A lot of Vipers take a lot of abuse on the race track without much complaining.

If you think you might want to go crazy with boost in the future (more than about 650RWHP worth), you might want to consider one of the '96 to '99 GTS's which have forged pistons, but at the expense of ABS brakes.

Vipers are best enjoyed as a 2nd vehicle. Not so much for reliability or comfort, but because it isn't always convenient to be driving a viper when it comes to parking, bad roads, heavy stop and go traffic, rain, etc.

I see you drive a pretty heavily modded vette. The biggest drawback of a Viper is probaby the cost of performance upgrades (actually any upgrades, including things like wheels).

 

[Andy 98 RT/10]

The stupidity of some people never ceases to amaze me.

I have a 1998 RT/10 in Michigan, and it's my daily driver. The only days I don't drive it are in snowstorms, where you could not drive a Corvette, Mustang, or any RWD car for that matter.

Also, I have 18000 miles on mine and not a single problem.

 

[PhoenixGTS]

The stupidity of some people never ceases to amaze me.

I hope that was not aimed at me. I have been daily driving the Viper for months now and some days it gets old. Especially when it is warm outside.

 

[plumcrazy]

some of these guys crack me up with the talk of driving thier cars.....lol

i have mine exactly 1 1/2 years and drove it 25000 miles. Includes buying it from woodhouse in nebraska, driving it home, and a florida trip, without a single problem except a bad battery which will happen to a battery that is 5 years old.

gonna be doing the florida trip again in april and expecting to drive it to texas this coming year too.

buy it, clean it, drive it, clean it again.

 

[got one]

Get a Pin kit and Upgrade your cooling system, check your halfshafts and u-joins and do a normal tuneup and change your fluids...you should be just fine. They are sooooo much fun to drive. But yes in the heat, it is a pain in the but to have to be constantly checking your temp gauge if you haven't upgraded your temp...at least down here on 105 degree days.

 

[IEATVETS]

Yadda Yadda Yadda!! You must have been talking to somebody who didn't know a damn thing. Sure, a Gen1 Viper IS NOT a grocery getter. It is the weekend fun car. Faster than most cars out there but to be honest, not the best handling car. I didn't buy mine to track it or drive it as a daily driver, I bought it because it is the original Viper, the car that started the "car wars" all over again. Yes there were some issues but you have to remember that ALL cars have issues that is what a warranty is for. You can listen to whomever you want to but if you drive a Viper just once, in stock form you will not be disappointed.

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

Relax, you are talking to some people who have an ax to grind. Let me see if I can take them in order.

1. The sales manager at a Dodge dealership.....I bet the only reason he knocked it is he did not have one to sell you, so he wanted to put you in something else. If you want to talk to a real dealer click on the link at the top of the page and call Bill Pemberton at Woodhouse. Most dealers do not stock Vipers nor do they know squat about them.

2. The guy who sold the RT10 for the blown/sprayed NSX. Hmmmmm....Bunch of reasons here, could have been a Gen1 Viper, there are a couple problems that can be fixed (head gaskets as an example) but maybe he did not like the "Cobra mentality" side curtains etc. Anyway, sounds like he should have bought a GTS if he likes the NSX. And finally he is probably irritated that no one pays attention to his car.

3. Next, Mr. Venom 650 sprayed....He's right, your Z06 IS a better driver, big deal, you are planning to have another driver, right? The daily driver issue has a lot to do with the "Rock Star mentality" that attracts crowds to the car, many of us are uneasy about leaving the car unattended. And there are a bunch of unhappy Venom owners out there for reasons I won't go in to here, so he may be unhappy with a modded car vs. a stock car.

4. Now let's deal with Mr. Diablo.... With RARE exception, and I can think of one guy who posts here, a guy who owns a Diablo and a Lotus just CAN'T help himself when he compares the engineering of his various cars....How else can he justify to himself AND to you what he paid? Now ask him the cost of service on those two. Why is it that all this superior engineering results in $6,000 tuneups? Gimme a break! The great thing about the Viper is that is a true exotic car (Just count the ads in DuPont registry) and the repair costs are about the same as any other Dodge. AND you can get a long term warranty even on a used car.

5.Listen to the guy with the RT10, the SRT, and the SRT Ram and ASK for a ride, or ask here someone will probably step up in your area.

6. The most important thing you said was you are looking for a non poser car....I think you already know you found it!

 

[Doc.]

Deadeye,

Vipers aren't for everyone, but my garage will never be without one. Come up to Shreveport and I'll let you drive one of mine. You won't be able to ask any more questions due to the silly grin that won't go away after you drive the car.I have doubled my use of Crest since purchasing my snakes. Merry Christmas.

Doc

 

[ERDOC]

I can certainly understand why many people do not like the Viper and for those same reasons why so many people love the car. The Viper is not for the faint of heart and definitely not a car for those who are looking for refinement. If you want supercar performance with refinement, there is no better car than the 911 turbo. If you want raw viceral power that grabs attention, go with the Viper. Personally I would look for one with a lot of mods on it since you will save money vs. putting them on yourself afterwards. BTW there is a nicely modified one on ebay right now: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6209&item=4513199777&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

 

[Vic]

Befrore I bought my GTS new in 2001, I had heard on this board many horror stories, of back windows blowing out, frame cracks, and Gen1 gasket problems, poor rear brake bias, etc.

Most of those issues were resolved by the 2001 model year. Only mine was one of the lucky ones to get a bad water pump! After getting that replaced with an identical one from Dodge, it has never failed since.

I've got 30,000 smiles now! Many track days, too. (This turns the white "Viper" lettering on your calipers yellow, something to look for in a used car)

Just today I took it out, and slid it around some corners, power sliding all the way. Its a blast to own, great fun to drive. If I had it to do over again, I definitely would!! Most fun car I've ever owned!

 

[Jim Hodel]

I bought a GTS new in 99 and a Z06 new in 01. It's true, the Z06 is a better daily driver. I put twice the mileage on the Vette, although if I could keep only one of the cars, it would be the Viper.

Jim

 

[Andy 98 RT/10]

The stupidity of some people never ceases to amaze me.

I hope that was not aimed at me. I have been daily driving the Viper for months now and some days it gets old. Especially when it is warm outside.

No Phoenix, it wasn't aimed at you. I was talking about the guys Deadeye was talking about in his first post.

 

[Carleton]

DeadEye

I'm one of those guys that could ***** about the reliabilty of a Viper if I wanted to having just blown a tranny at 13K miles... But I won't.
I love the car and can't wait to start the mods next year.

Carleton

 

[Qualitywires.com]

I think the reliability on the Viper is about normal...it's when you mod it things can be hairy if not done right..in stock form..I think they are pretty much bullet proof in reliabilty...keep up with the maintenance.

If I could drive it everyday..I would...but then I think I would get nored with it also....I like some of the snow storms we get here because when it's warm out and nice..it makes driving the viper even better!

 

[phiebert]

My two cents:

Had a Porsche 911 Turbo and had far more problems than with my Viper. Put in perspective though, I had a couple minor problems with the Porsche, but I haven't had any with the Viper. And mine is the "horrible" Gen I from 1994!

I've had a lot of cars, mini vans, sport utilities and just about everything else and my Viper has been more reliable than any of them. If I ever drove any of my other vehicles like I do the Viper they would all be dead! Mine is a daily driver, although I don't drive a lot each day anymore because I work from home. But I used to drive 40 miles a day with it every day and it just keeps going.

I've had a modified exhaust and Nitrous for nearly 5 years now with plenty of drag strip and autocross runs and I just drive it to the track, do my thing and drive it home.

I'm on the original head gasket! I check for that and other problems often but all I've had to do is tighten my oil pan bolts (it wasn't leaking but they were not up to the recommended torque level) and change the tires that I roast off!

I've never owned a more reliable car. For a car that is over 600 horsepower modified, built on a foundation that was only in its 3rd year of production I'm amazed I haven't had more problems. My annual tire budget (and that is all I buy other than oil changes) is approximately what my monthly shop bill was for my Porsche. Don't get me wrong, I love Porsches and other exotic European cars and will likely get another someday. But it just stands to reason that when you try to squeek over 500 hp out of a small engine it is going to have more problems than a 500 ci block. If you took a Norwegian Cruise ship diesel engine and put it in your little Cabin Cruiser boat, you'd have the same effect. Lots of power that isn't stressed and will go a long time before it has problems.

When people tell you Vipers have lots of problems it can be chalked up to one of two things... "Viper Envy" (for those without one) or "I want to be the only guy in my Zip code with a Viper!" (for those with one).

 

[PDCjonny]

I have owned two new Vettes in my life, a 2002 Coupe an a 2004 Z06. Both purchased new. Neither came close to the fun and overall experience of driving my Viper. I bought a '98 GTS six weeks ago, trading in my Z06 which was brand new. I don't regret it for a second. As others have stated, it's NOT a daily driver for most people. But I swear when you get in that seat it's like nothing else. It feels like you are strapped on a rocket. They are so unique looking as well, if you like some attention for your ride you will GET it. Most people don't even know what it is, but they just stare slack jawed at it. I am on Long Island which has a LOT of people, and except for some Viper cruises when we get together with other owners, I have NEVER passed another Viper on the street and I take some long cruises around the Island. The Vettes are a dime a dozen.
I had some minor mechanical issues, quickly fixed by a very competent Viper tech in our area. But that goes with the territory when you buy an older car.

 

[DEADEYE]

Thanks for the replies guys. I've learned a bit of Viper trivia in this thread. I didn't know that the engine internals were stronger in the earlier gen 2's. This might come into play when I make my decision as I can't rule out the potential use of N20. They can take a 200 shot right? I might even try to find a pre modded one but my wife want's one as stock as possible with a warranty. She's the brain and I'm the heart of the household lol.

 

[RedEnuf93]

They can take a 200 shot right?

Right. I have Gen 1 with NX Express and I have even used the 300 shot. It keeps most sport bikes at bay....

 

[Rollin4]

Welcome DEADEYE, nice to see another Viper to be here in the Bayou's. When you get your car be sure to join the Mid South VCA. The Viper is not a "daily Driver" but there are people who do use them for that, they are dependable. The way our roads here are you really have to be careful as the car has a low ground clearence other than that the behave well here. I have had my 94 for about 3 years and it's been trouble free. There are concerns about headgaskets with is mostly a Gen1 problem and there are some Gen2 cars with other problems that I'm sure the Gen2 guys can explain . As for the overheating problem I've never experienced it, and my car is a driver not a "Garage Queen" 42K miles on it. Parts and advise are available on this board and by phone from people like Chuck Tator, Sean Roe, JonB etc. Get the car and enjoy it, you will not belive the "Gawk Factor" when you get it for a cruise especially here in Louisiana. They are enjoyable cars, fast, handle extremely well, and a joy to drive. You'll be putting the For Sale sign on the Z06 in a hurry. Let me know when you get the car would be a pleasure to take the cars for a spin and turn some heads.

 

[BLWNASP]

-Ok deadeye let me give you my thoughts. I have owned a Viper for a week now and first thing I will say is it's different (in a good way). It is not my daily driver, and thankfully so, I really enjoy looking forward to driving it.

Reliability I do not know yet, but it seems good. I say that because once you start driving the car you understood how this car is not taxed very much. The guys commenting on this post are right. At stock the car shifts easy both shifter and clutch, accelerates without strain, and travels these terrible roads in San Diego without any bottoming out/ or protest. These are positive signs for me.

Now the car itself is a beast, I love it. I will be honest and tell you I have not completely gotten on it yet, and I'm not ready to. This car requires two hands and you're attention period. When I learn it's dynamics better I will then find out what this power is all about. But I can tell you the little I have pushed it this car accelerates like a mad bull and I can't wait to ride it. And when stock becomes tame I have a 250 shot waiting for me to open up.

If you want a challenge this is the car, that's what I really enjoy so far. The only downsides I will say so far is this. I need the seat lowering kit because I am 6'2 and my left knee gets hung up on the steering wheel when shifting (clutch pedal location). And even though they are new my Michellin? Pilot Sports **** and I will be switching to Khumo V700's for the rear. Hope this helps.

 

[DEADEYE]

Re:

Rollin4-

That would be great. Alot of Vette guys really harp on comradery but I've never experienced such a willingness to help out a viper owner much less a potential one. I'm liking it already lol. when I'm in the Z06, I see alot vettes on the street but I still feel alone because most of them are posers. In my area, an airbox and catback on a C5 is considered built! lol. Not that a stock car makes you a poser but these guys won't even get on it. That is why the Viper speaks to me in a way that they can't understand. It's purpose built and I'm that purpose. What ever Viper I get will be my baby and it will be A KEEPER for sure.

 

[DEADEYE]

-Ok deadeye let me give you my thoughts. I have owned a Viper for a week now and first thing I will say is it's different (in a good way). It is not my daily driver, and thankfully so, I really enjoy looking forward to driving it.Reliability I do not know yet, but it seems good. I say that because once you start driving the car you understood how this car is not taxed very much. The guys commenting on this post are right. At stock the car shifts easy both shifter and clutch, accelerates without strain, and travels these terrible roads in San Diego without any bottoming out/ or protest. These are positive signs for me.Now the car itself is a beast, I love it. I will be honest and tell you I have not completely gotten on it yet, and I'm not ready to. This car requires two hands and you're attention period. When I learn it's dynamics better I will then find out what this power is all about. But I can tell you the little I have pushed it this car accelerates like a mad bull and I can't wait to ride it. And when stock becomes tame I have a 250 shot waiting for me to open up. If you want a challenge this is the car, that's what I really enjoy so far. The only downsides I will say so far is this. I need the seat lowering kit because I am 6'2 and my left knee gets hung up on the steering wheel when shifting (clutch pedal location). And even though they are new my Michellin? Pilot Sports **** and I will be switching to Khumo V700's for the rear. Hope this helps.

Thanks. You're telling me everything I want to hear. A 250 shot!!!Dayum! Is it built or is that the stock engine?

 

[DEADEYE]

Get a Pin kit and Upgrade your cooling system, check your halfshafts and u-joins and do a normal tuneup and change your fluids...you should be just fine. They are sooooo much fun to drive. But yes in the heat, it is a pain in the but to have to be constantly checking your temp gauge if you haven't upgraded your temp...at least down here on 105 degree days.

Can you direct me on where to find these remedies? It can get hot down here but I'll probably just leave her in the garage on those unbearably hot days unless I score a RT-10.

 

[DEADEYE]

Deadeye,Vipers aren't for everyone, but my garage will never be without one. Come up to Shreveport and I'll let you drive one of mine. You won't be able to ask any more questions due to the silly grin that won't go away after you drive the car.I have doubled my use of Crest since purchasing my snakes. Merry Christmas.Doc

LOL. I just might take you up on that offer! Merry Christmas to you too and everyone here.

 

[DEADEYE]

Relax, you are talking to some people who have an ax to grind. Let me see if I can take them in order.1. The sales manager at a Dodge dealership.....I bet the only reason he knocked it is he did not have one to sell you, so he wanted to put you in something else. If you want to talk to a real dealer click on the link at the top of the page and call Bill Pemberton at Woodhouse. Most dealers do not stock Vipers nor do they know squat about them.

Well, they didn't have any in stock and I've only seen one 90k SRT-10 Mamba that was there forever. You're probably right on that assumption.

2. The guy who sold the RT10 for the blown/sprayed NSX. Hmmmmm....Bunch of reasons here, could have been a Gen1 Viper, there are a couple problems that can be fixed (head gaskets as an example) but maybe he did not like the "Cobra mentality" side curtains etc. Anyway, sounds like he should have bought a GTS if he likes the NSX. And finally he is probably irritated that no one pays attention to his car.

It may have been a gen1. It was white with blue stripes that tapered down towards the front.

3. Next, Mr. Venom 650 sprayed....He's right, your Z06 IS a better driver, big deal, you are planning to have another driver, right? The daily driver issue has a lot to do with the "Rock Star mentality" that attracts crowds to the car, many of us are uneasy about leaving the car unattended. And there are a bunch of unhappy Venom owners out there for reasons I won't go in to here, so he may be unhappy with a modded car vs. a stock car.

This guy has never been straight with me to be honest. We raced a dead even race and he told me all he had done was exhaust and 3:55 gears. I could be wrong but He says he traps @ 128 and that is a big number. Too big I think for a 3:55/ full exhaust car. He offered to sell it to me for 65k but that's out of my range.

4. Now let's deal with Mr. Diablo.... With RARE exception, and I can think of one guy who posts here, a guy who owns a Diablo and a Lotus just CAN'T help himself when he compares the engineering of his various cars....How else can he justify to himself AND to you what he paid? Now ask him the cost of service on those two. Why is it that all this superior engineering results in $6,000 tuneups? Gimme a break! The great thing about the Viper is that is a true exotic car (Just count the ads in DuPont registry) and the repair costs are about the same as any other Dodge. AND you can get a long term warranty even on a used car.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

5.Listen to the guy with the RT10, the SRT, and the SRT Ram and ASK for a ride, or ask here someone will probably step up in your area.

I plan on doing that. I'm a bit afraid to ask him because he cherishes those cars soooo much. About as much as I'll cherish mine.

6. The most important thing you said was you are looking for a non poser car....I think you already know you found it!

 

[BLWNASP]

If it was white with stripes down the front my bets are a 95' I believe AKA Gen 1. Someone will know for sure.

My car is completely stock except Nitrous and a monster stereo. Heck what else do I need, maybe a Roe s/c in a few years. My car is a 97 b/w GTS so it has the forged internals and it's a beauty.