Hoosier R6 versus Michelin Cup heat cycles

[Schulmann]

I am looking for a good track tire. I am not a racer but I want something sticky that lasts at least 1 season. I want to use these tires for club lapping and not racing.

I would like to try the Hoosier R6 but I am scared that it will not last the entire season.
I have 6 lapping days this year on the agenda. I had very good comments on the R6: It is easy to bring it up to the right temperature and maintain it hot. But it can only last 10-12 heat cycles.

Where as the Michelin CUP is a great track/street tire and likely will last more than 1 season. However some people told me that it is more difficult to make it sticky and maintain it at the right temperature.

How many heat cycles will last these tires ?
How graduel they will loose the grip after 10 heat cycles ?


I need a feed back from a driver that used them boot ?

 

[rcl4668]

I am in a similar situation and would also love to hear people's comments although at least for this year I may see how the stock Michelin PS2s fare on my 2008 Viper.

/Rich

 

[j-rho]

Total life will depend a lot on how hard you drive them, what sort of tracks you're on, the shape of your car, etc. The Michelin PSCs will outlast R-compound Hoosiers in my experience. Both tires need a little time (a lap or two, maybe three in Canada) to get heat into them; you'd have to go to the A-compound Hoosier to get grip more quickly. The good thing about the PSC or R-compound Hoosier is that once to temp, they are a bit more resistant to overheating so in that sense they're less finicky than an A-compound Hoosier or qualifying-style slick.

If you're really pushing the car, I am doubtful you would get 6 days out of the R Hoosier. I'd say more like 1 great day, 1 good day, and 1 not-so-good day. A "day" can vary widely though, from 1-2 sessions of 8-10 laps, to 4+ sessions of 15+ laps.

Based on your post I would recommend the Michelin PSC.

 

[Schulmann]

I will not push hard the car.
I will definitely be 10% slower thant the fastest cars.
Just a little speeding and quick turns

 

[FrankBarba]

Faulkin Tires would last a whole summer for you. but they are not sticky....

 

[Schulmann]

Am I the only track man on this forum ?
I was expecting more answers ...

 

[Dave Moore]

Schulman,

Yesterday I ran for the first time PSC. I drive to the track and then home. I have a second set of rims with PS2 on them that I now run on the street. Quite a difference over the PS2, but the PS2 is still impressive. THey do take a good 2-3 laps to get sticky. I felt like they were hooking up nicely when I got them to 37/38 # HOT. Sorry I don't have any experience about longevity, which is what your asking about.

 

[SCLSSRT10]

No tire that is any good is going to last you an entire season. Michelins are great for about 5-6 heat cycles, then they start to go away. and after 10 - 15 they are junk. When I was running the PS2's at Viper Days on my SRT10 I would replace them every second event, which means I would only get about 16 heat cycles out of them. After that the grip was basically non existent. Hoozier VRLs are not much better they are best on their first cycles on about the 2-3 lap. They will last about the same 10-15 but again they are pretty much junk also. Any tire will continue to degrade after the initial heat cycle. We say that after the first cycle the Hooziers are only "good" for about a month. That is speaking about racing tires and using them for racing.

 

[Schulmann]

I just got my Hoosiers. They are really light ...

 

[Viper X]

Expecting a race tire to last a season is not reasonable, but your season appears pretty short, so you may be able to do it. None of the "R compound" tires that I've tried will do this and continue to provide good traction. You mention that you have only 6 lapping days in your "season", which is two or three outings for me, while a season for me is more like a dozen outings, but I live in So Cal.

You don't mention tire sizes but FYI there is a much wider selection of sticky tires available if you choose to run 18's in the rear; most racers do.

Here are a few of the tires that I've tracked:

I have tracked new shaved Kumho Ecsta V-700s (18s) and get about 12 to 16 heat cycles. These chunk when they get worn.

VRL Slicks (18s) give me about 10 heat cycles and they are falling off the entire time. These just go away.

The used, shaved Toyo RA1's (18s) give me about 12 - 14 heat cycles and are quite a bargain. These will cord but won't chunk.

I'm planning to try a set of the new Hoosier R-6's (18 & 19s) at our next Viper Days in September. I expect about 12 - 14 heat cycles (sessions) out of them.

I've also tried PS Cups (18 & 19s) and didn't care for them. They took a long time to get warm, were sticky for a few laps and then got greasy and slippery when hot. They are expensive and I would not buy them again.

Regular Pilots (18&19s) are pretty good when new (for a street tire), but fall off quickly.

PS2's (18&19s) seem better than regular Pilots. I have a set of the 2008 19 inchers coming but have only run the pre-08 tires so far. The pre-2008 PS2s have soft sidewalls and flex too much for the track in my opinion. They get hot and greasy too when pushed.

All of this will depend on the track, the conditions at the track (temps, etc) and how hard you drive. As I have learned to handle the car better and become faster, my tires and brakes wear out much more quickly.

Good luck,

Dan

 

[black mamba1]

Are the Hoosiers better the the 08 PS2's?

 

[Viper X]

The Hoosiers are much, much stickier at the track.

The new 2008 (C1) PS2's work well at the track for a street tire. They do need to warm up before you push them though.

Dan

 

[bluestreak]

MPSC > R6 Other than the first few heat cycles where the R6 will be faster. The MPSC are close in speed but last longer in heat cycles for DE. Racing heat cycles are a different story.

 

[Schulmann]

Thanks Dan for this great tire review !
That confirme that no matter what tire I use they will only last 12-15 heat cycles.

I am really stunned by what you report on the Pilot Cup but other racer guys told me the same ! It is maybe an intermetidate level of lapping tire and not intended for 100% racing.

Next time I will try the Cups. It is maybe a good fit for a leisure lapper I will finish my Hoosiers this season.

 

[vincy]

Expecting a race tire to last a season is not reasonable, but your season appears pretty short, so you may be able to do it. None of the "R compound" tires that I've tried will do this and continue to provide good traction. You mention that you have only 6 lapping days in your "season", which is two or three outings for me, while a season for me is more like a dozen outings, but I live in So Cal.

You don't mention tire sizes but FYI there is a much wider selection of sticky tires available if you choose to run 18's in the rear; most racers do.

Here are a few of the tires that I've tracked:

I have tracked new shaved Kumho Ecsta V-700s (18s) and get about 12 to 16 heat cycles. These chunk when they get worn.

VRL Slicks (18s) give me about 10 heat cycles and they are falling off the entire time. These just go away.

The used, shaved Toyo RA1's (18s) give me about 12 - 14 heat cycles and are quite a bargain. These will cord but won't chunk.

I'm planning to try a set of the new Hoosier R-6's (18 & 19s) at our next Viper Days in September. I expect about 12 - 14 heat cycles (sessions) out of them.

I've also tried PS Cups (18 & 19s) and didn't care for them. They took a long time to get warm, were sticky for a few laps and then got greasy and slippery when hot. They are expensive and I would not buy them again.

Regular Pilots (18&19s) are pretty good when new (for a street tire), but fall off quickly.

PS2's (18&19s) seem better than regular Pilots. I have a set of the 2008 19 inchers coming but have only run the pre-08 tires so far. The pre-2008 PS2s have soft sidewalls and flex too much for the track in my opinion. They get hot and greasy too when pushed.

All of this will depend on the track, the conditions at the track (temps, etc) and how hard you drive. As I have learned to handle the car better and become faster, my tires and brakes wear out much more quickly.

Good luck,

Dan

What is cord and chunk? I guess chunk means forming rubber balls? But cord is a mystery to me. Thanks

 

[Boxer12]

In the VRL, the only tire they use are Hoosier VRL's. They are the best. There are a lot of guys in VRL that change tires after just a few heat cycles, so you can pick up recently used VRL's for cheap that still have some good (not great) track days in them. Call Archer Racing for details. I have been doing this for a couple years. Its still not cheap, because you have to factor in the cost of shipping and tire swaps, but you get more bang for the buck.

 

[xlr8ion]

If you want durability,best price and performance you go with the Nitto's.The MSCUP are $2400 a set way to much.

 

[vdogg]

I got 16 heat cycles (approx 25-30 minutes) on a set of R6's fronts. Rears still have some seesions I believe. 10 cycles at VIR, 6 at Putnam. I consider myself a pretty aggressive driver. I did flip the tires on the rims between VIR and Putnam.

 

[gb66gth]

Try the Kuhmo Ecsta XS, you will not be disappointed in either overall grip or durablilty. They should definitely last the whole season.

 

[Schulmann]

Funny that this thread pops up after 2 years.

Hoosier is the best tire no matter what ...
I have tried the R888 but they are just too close to the street tires.

I used my Hoosier until I could see the rope on the side

Never had a Cup (too expensive) but will buy Hoosier again.