How do you Stop Belanger Headers from Leaking?

[VEETENN]

Ever since I bought these Belanger Headers they develop an exhaust leak on one of the 2-bolt flanges that connects the bottom half to the top half. Every time I seal it up then drive for a couple of weeks it blows out again in the same place on both sides of the car. When I first installed the headers I followed the installation instructions using a thin layer of high temp silicon (the brand that Belanger recommends) and no gaskets. That blew out so I used a heavy layer of silicon thinking maybe the first layer was to thin. That blew out so I cleaned off the silicon and used a gasket with no silicon. That blew out now I found the same gasket with a metal ring around the hole I'm hopeing this will do the trick. Since the gasket keeps blowing out in the same spot on both sides I was thinking maybe a 1" C-clamp might help stop the flange from opening enough to blow the gasket, but I'm afraid the clamp would vibrate loose and fall off maybe blowing my tire. I have heard others have had problems with this type of exhaust leak with the Belangers how did you fix it?

 

[MES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>now I found the same gasket with a metal ring around the hole I'm hopeing this will do the trick.
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Where did you find that gasket? Mine also have been leaking at the 2-bolt flange since day 1 on both sides and both flanges. The only thing I could think of that might work is a muffler patch kit. The leaks are very small and most people probably would not notice.

 

[VEETENN]

Found the gasket at Kragan and Pep Boys. I've bought the gasket from them with and without the metal ring. Maybe the metal ring gasket replaces the older non metal ring gasket. You have to ask for it from the parts counter NEA EX-5 replaces FEL-PRO 9547. These leaks drive me nuts with that ticking sound. If I knew this would be a problem with Belanger I would have bought another brand. I hope the metal ring gasket does the trick.

 

[Ulysses]

I'm not familiar with the Belanger setup, where is the leak exactly? Apparently there is a flange. Have you tried doubling up the gaskets?

 

[SteveMat]

Mine leaks in the same place. Maybe I'll try the gasket you found. When I call Belanger a couple months ago about it, they got real defensive and said I must have installed it wrong. After I told them (about 5 times I think) that I did not do the install (previous owner did) and that I was not "blaming anyone" but just wanted to fix it because I had heard gaskets would never hold. The person at Belanger stated I could ship the flanges to him to fix.

I haven't sent them back because it would be a pain to take everything off to ship. Plus this is time driving time this time of year

 

[VEETENN]

The Belanger has a top half and a bottom half, they bolt together with 2- 2 1/4" flanges. Three of the cylinders reduce to one flange and two cylinders reduce to the other flange then the two flanges reduce again to the 3" collector. It is one of the 2 1/4" flanges that leaks, about 1" of the gasket gets burned out mid way between the bolt holes.

 

[VEETENN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SteveMat:
Mine leaks in the same place. Maybe I'll try the gasket you found. When I call Belanger a couple months ago about it, they got real defensive and said I must have installed it wrong. After I told them (about 5 times I think) that I did not do the install (previous owner did) and that I was not "blaming anyone" but just wanted to fix it because I had heard gaskets would never hold. The person at Belanger stated I could ship the flanges to him to fix.

I haven't sent them back because it would be a pain to take everything off to ship. Plus this is time driving time this time of year

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When I talked to Lou Belanger Jr. he gave me the same song and dance, said it couldn't be his product because be makes the best headers in the world! Claimed he never heard of this problem before! Bla Bla Bla!

 

[JonB]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brad/Viper-Fan:
.....When I first installed the headers I followed the installation instructions using a thin layer of high temp silicon (the brand that Belanger recommends) and no gaskets. That blew out so I used a heavy layer of silicon thinking maybe the first layer was to thin........I have heard others have had problems with this type of exhaust leak with the Belangers how did you fix it? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Brad...........last count, there are about 500 sets installed, and you are only one of a very few leakers. Thankfully we have this site to brainstorm.

Fat-Albert's headers have been on/off/on/off his car almost FIFTY TIMES with no leak! Just silicone. Did the header flange get banged/dropped before install?

If you add a gasket to the flange mechanism, it will bend / deform when torqued down. The flanges are resurfaced perfectly flat after creation/welding around the headers, so they need no gaskets...just silicone. The only likley way they now leak is that these flanges were 'somehow' bent during install. Look for bent ears on the flanges, which can occur in gasketed flanges after high heat occurs....the glowing-red session that is!


Or, folks are so programmed to want and use gaskets, they install em, and the flange then bends when torqued down. And the leak happens.

Belanger will replace / resurface user-bent flanges in every case! Even user-bent! NO CHARGE.

 

[VEETENN]

John I didn't drop or bang the flanges on the install and I only tried the gaskets after the silicon wouldn't work. I certainly don't want to take the headers off in order to have them resurfaced (too much work) I am looking for a way to stop the leaks without all the hassle off removing the system.

 

[Jerry Scott[CO]]

I have the B&B try-y headers which are a stainless steel copy of the Belangers, and went through the same exercise of trying to keep the two bolt flanges from eventually leaking. I tried several composite gaskets which all burned down to the steel inserts, except one. The last one I tried is a NAPA gasket that is made of <u>graphite</u> and steel. This one has been on my 97 GTS for many track miles and has not yet leaked. The NAPA part no. is: F-5495-C. I used the Permatex Ultraseal,(red) on one side only of the gasket as the Permatex instructions advise. I now no longer have the problem. Make sure that the surfaces are clean before applying the gasket.

 

[VEETENN]

Thanks a million Jerry! If these gaskets I just put in don't work I will try your method. I am really tired of tearing this thing apart.

 

[GTS Bruce]

The answer is!CDI headers. Bruce

 

[Tom Welch]

Brad,

You or your installer probably overtightened the flanges at one point or another which has warped them. When they are shipped to you they have been machined to a perfectly flat surface. Once warped they will never seal.

Take a flat ruler and lay it across the flanges to check for straightness. If they are warped have them straightened.

Re-install with a thin layer of BLACK silicone, only after the silicone has had a chance to "tack up". THEY WILL NOT LEAK.

Mine have been on and off countless times with no leakage..EVER. I have NO customers who I have installed theirs that are leaking.

If you insist on using a gasket, you can purchase one that has a steel o ring..no others will work. Be very careful not to overtighten the bolts as bending of the flanges around the gasket will occur.

Please call the dealer you bought them from with any questions.
I have a comprehensive installation instruction sheet that I ship with every set that I sell.

Tom
Http://btrviper.com

 

[VEETENN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom Welch:
Brad,

You or your installer probably overtightened the flanges at one point or another which has warped them. When they are shipped to you they have been machined to a perfectly flat surface. Once warped they will never seal.

Http://btrviper.com

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Tom if you have two perfectly flat surfaces put together with silicon the two surfaces touch,(Silicon squeezes out) how is it possible to overtighten? Since there is no gap how can you bend the flange by overtightening? I can understand when using a thick gasket how overtighting might bend the ears of the flange into the gap of the gasket but with silicon there is no gap. As soon as the lock washer flattens out it won't tighten anymore because the two flat surfaces are together. Only after the silicon did not work (twice) did I resort to gaskets.

Also Belanger did not include a torque spec for the bolts in their instructions.

If these flanges are that sensitive I believe they need to be redesigned with thicker material or 3 bolts instead of two, or even better some type of male/female connection that is leak proof.

 

[Fast Viper Dan]

Brad, I think the flanges were not flat to start with. It is posable for the matierial to "move" after they have been machined. Machining Is what I do. And it is not the manufactures
fault. After machining, welding and final machining there is stress in the matierial. If you have to take it apart again call
me and I'll come over and see if I can find a solution.
Dan 408-982-9137

 

[SteveMat]

Hey Jerry Scott,
I went up to http://www.napaonline.com and searched on part "F-5495-C" and it came up empty. Is that the right part number or am I missing something. Should I call up a local NAPA shop and ask them?

 

[VEETENN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fast Viper Dan:
Brad, I think the flanges were not flat to start with. It is possible for the material to "move" after they have been machined. Machining Is what I do. And it is not the manufactures
fault. After machining, welding and final machining there is stress in the material. If you have to take it apart again call
me and I'll come over and see if I can find a solution.
Dan 408-982-9137

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Dan, maybe that's what happened. But I still think if the flanges are that sensitive to work with the design should be improved for better sealing.

 

[Marc Lublin]

Jerry,
I am interested in the Napa gaskets as well. Do have any more info. I know the best thing to do would take the headers off and have them machined, but that's not something I really feel like doing right now.