How many of you RT owners drive your car without the Spare ??

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

Let me relate some overheard conversations with PVO engineers after a tech session at VOI. An RT owner brought up this question privately with a small group of us standing around. The same issues were raised, you would recognize the names of the engineers who answered, but we were told it was off the record, let's just say they have been on a couple of tracks. It's not about crushability, it's about rigidity, the spare becomes an integral part of the frame, being rigid enough to protect the tank AND the design with the spare IN forces the trunk lid to pop UP instead of the hinges shearing off and the trunk lid being pushed forward directly through the top of the front seats and yes the drivers head. So it's not a matter of whether the trunk lid flys off, that would be OK, but of preventing it from being pushed forward into the drivers space and the spare acts like part of a monocoque frame to prevent this. WITH the spare in the trunk pops up and maybe snaps off, without the spare it pushes diectly forward. As far as weight was concerned they saved tons by doing it this way, the spare weighs a lot less than the reinforcement needed in steel for the frame to equal it. The word was even in a gentle spin out and impact on a tire barrier on the track the whole end of the car can crumple and the tank can burst and the lid may be shoved forward. As far as the legality of all this and warning stickers the comment was that if the corporate lawyers had even heard of this they would never have signed off on this car in the first place without adding 400 pounds to the rear frame and it was a miracle to get the car approved at all and the founding fathers wanted a race car for the street but a continual game had to be played to get the car past Iaoccoca and the the back office boys. So the lawyers NEVER would have gone for a warning sticker or a warning in the manual, thinking it would be MORE likely to get them sued. And furthermore there really aren't any regulations about rear crash zones then or now other than the 5mph rear bumper standard that was in force at the time and has now been relaxed, so the spare worked well to meet the 5mph test also. I have no dog in this fight as I have a GTS but I just can't believe you guys when you hear you can't run the car at the track without the spare and you still don't buy into the fact that there might be a reason for that. I would also hate to lose one of you guys to an Excursion or Suburban rear ending soccer mom due to 40lbs or a better stereo!

 

[joe117]

Now you know that it wouldn't take 400lb of steel to replace the strength of a spare tire bolted to plastic with a single bolt.

At tracks, do they let any cars run without a spare?

 

[SylvanSRT]

Not in Viper Days No spare in an RT and you CANNOT run!

 

[Yellow Fever]

Good Input Lee !

Thanks

Jeff

 

[GaryA]

Gary , that is exactly what I am looking for !

Thanks for the info

Jeff

P.S Do you havea pic of the Keg ?

Jeff,

Here it is:

You must be registered for see images

The unit on the left is installed in your car. The unit on the right is the PC interface unit (shown with the disk cartridge).

 

[Don]

I put it back in tonight! Thanks for all the great information

 

[Yellow Fever]

DAMN GARY !! That Keg Looks SWEET !
Thanks for posting the pics .

I'm going to look into ordering one

 

[Russ M]

Lee,

If that were true than the GTS would require a spare just lie an RT since they both have the identical frames and bumpers.

But it ain't true, and people that assemble cars tend not to know anything about crash testing.

You can belive all you like, but until I see actual data and not here say my spare will be collecting dust in the garage.

 

[WANTED]

I STILL SEE NO PROOF EITHER WAY
YES IT IS = NO ITS NOT

I LIKE THE SPACE AND IF I'M WRONG
WHAT A WAY TO GO

 

[Backdoc7]

An alternative to the Kenwood Keg is a headunit with a MP3 player.. less weight and space needed.. with about 10 cd's per CD-R (mp3), it's all good.

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

Russ said....
"If that were true than the GTS would require a spare just lie an RT since they both have the identical frames and bumpers.
But it ain't true, and people that assemble cars tend not to know anything about crash testing.
You can belive all you like, but until I see actual data and not here say my spare will be collecting dust in the garage."


Russ, for Gods sake man, do you think the rear of a GTS might be constructed a little bit differently in respect to the REAR DECK LID ANGLE? If it is hit in the rear do you think the rear hatch might get pushed up at a different angle?

 

[JDR]

I e-mailed Discovery Channel's MythBusters... Who knows?

On the other hand, I could get my wife to drive our Suburban in to the back of the Viper at 45MPH or so, and see what happens to dispel any doubt... I'm insured

On the other hand, why scratch up my Suburban? I wonder how fast I can get the Viper going in reverse? I'm sure I can find a concrete wall or Oak tree around here somewhere...

Anyhow - I do run WITH the spare 99.99% of the time.

 

[joe117]

Lee,
"the spare acts like part of a monocoque frame"

How could this be true? The spare is bolted to plastic by a couple of little bolts with wingnuts.

I believe the story you tell but I don't think it makes sense.

The fact that Viperdays requires the spare, means only that they must have heard the tale.

The idea that they slipped this past the legal department just to get the car into production, sound's like a myth.

Hot sidepipes, a fake rollbar, 400hp, tendency to swap ends, advertised as a supercar for the street..... All this... And the legal department had to be tricked to let the car through without a sticker telling people to leave the spare in place.
What kind of nonsense is that?

 

[Russ M]

Lee,

According to you the tire acts as part of the frame, so how does the fiberglass body surrounding the rear of the car change that?

So as I said before if this were true for the RT then the GTS would require the spare also.

 

[Sniper]

Just because of all this nonsense talk, I took out my spare tire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ulysses]

Lee never claimed anything. He was just reporting what he heard the insiders say.

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

Thank you Ulysses. And if I had it to do over I would not have wasted my time. And I'm just REAL sure that Skip Barber requires a spare because he heard a rumor. Would anybody care to call Skip and ask? Or would we all like to continue to postulate that this is all a grand conspiracy and myth perpetuated by the same kinds of flaming liberals that would have us wear motorcycle helmets.

 

[Matt M PA]

Lee...good post. I KNOW what was said by numerous experts, and at the time, I had an RT and GTS, so I was interested.

I remember it being covered on the VCA boards several times with "those in the know" agreeing. I distinctly remember the tech at a tech session explaining how the tire bolt was retain by a cable that was tied to the frame rails, and he showed us where the cable was attached. (But, I guess that is all part of the conspiracy.) If you look under your Viper at the rear, you'll see the cable attached to the frame.

I went as far as looking in one of my parts books and the cable is clearly shown on the floor pan page.

 

[Newport Viper]

I e-mailed Discovery Channel's MythBusters... Who knows?

Epic!

It's all BS until we see something in writing from PVO.

If it is such a danger, then there should be a major write up in Viper Mag. and linked to this site. PVO should have NO problem doing this, if it is true.

Joe H. can you pass this along?

Until then....