How much transmission fluid?

[LifeIsGood]

Okay, I've spent the better part of 2 hours reading my service manual and searching threads about transmission fluid for my 2001 RT/10. I'm going to be changing the fluid and I haven't found any info about how much it holds. Anybody know?

 

[99 R/T 10]

Should be just shy of 4 quarts. What kind of oil are ya using? I just put in Dex VI, great stuff!!

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

I think the shop manual says four but it's closer to three.

 

[Sveina]

Dex VI? My '01 instruction book for my GTS says Castrol Syntorq LT, 75w85, GL4, 3,8 liters on the tranny. You were kidding about the ATF right?

 

[dave6666]

I've done my several times and it is just short of 4 qts.

BTW, fluid capacities are usually in the owner's manual but not always the service manual.

 

[LifeIsGood]

Thanks guys...I haven't started a local search for Castrol Syntorq LT 75W/85 or called my local dealer about the price for MOPAR Synthetic Manual Transmission Lubricant SAE 75W-85. I understand that they can be expensive. I did read a number of threads on the subject so I may go with this...

Castrol SyntorqLT® 75w90w Full Synthetic Gear Lubricant is the ONLY factory approved oil for NV4500 series transmissions. This low temperature rated oil was specifically formulated by Castrol for New Venture. Meets GM 12346190, Chrysler/Dodge 4637579, and 4874459 specifications. The excellent lubrication characteristics, wide temperature range, and durability of this oil has resulted in a number of other vehicle manufacturers adapting it for various gearboxes. 2 quart bottle. Made in U.S.A.
Regular Price: $38.97

My total cost for 4 quarts delivered: ($38.97 x 2 + $14.31 delivery = $92.22)

NV4500 Parts

It's about half way down the page.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Matt M PA]

I recently swapped the fluid in my 96 RT to the Mopar synth. Just under 4 quarts. What came out appeared to be ATF. Huge improvement in the way the car shifts.

 

[BOTTLEFED]

Here LIG,
print this off and stick it in your FSM for next time

http://www.yandros.com/Viper/ViperFluids.htm

 

[dave6666]

Thanks guys...I haven't started a local search for Castrol Syntorq LT 75W/85 or called my local dealer about the price for MOPAR Synthetic Manual Transmission Lubricant SAE 75W-85. I understand that they can be expensive. I did read a number of threads on the subject so I may go with this...


My total cost for 4 quarts delivered: ($38.97 x 2 + $14.31 delivery = $92.22)

NV4500 Parts

It's about half way down the page.

You must be registered for see images attach

If you look at the label on the Mopar fluid there is an interesting tidbit hidden in plain sight. Also, I pay less than your Internet price for 4 qts of the Mopar stuff from my local dealer. If you are feeling like a tightwad Amsoil has a fluid that is about $13 qt + @ $10 shipping.

You must be registered for see images

 

[LifeIsGood]

Here LIG,
print this off and stick it in your FSM for next time

http://www.yandros.com/Viper/ViperFluids.htm

Thanks Tim! Very useful.

If you look at the label on the Mopar fluid there is an interesting tidbit hidden in plain sight. Also, I pay less than your Internet price for 4 qts of the Mopar stuff from my local dealer. If you are feeling like a tightwad Amsoil has a fluid that is about $13 qt + @ $10 shipping.

I'm missing the hidden tidbit.

I did ask my local dealer about the MOPAR fill and I can get it for $23 a quart, so I might as well get it from him.

 

[dave6666]

I pay $18.40 per qt.

Of course I told my dealer to give me a 20% discount on every purchase because I drive a Viper and they do. With 7.75% sales tax it was $79.30 for all 4 qts.

 

[BOTTLEFED]

... or you can go with DEXVI for $5 a quart

 

[99 R/T 10]

... or you can go with DEXVI for $5 a quart

I said it first......................

 

[LifeIsGood]

... or you can go with DEXVI for $5 a quart

Should be just shy of 4 quarts. What kind of oil are ya using? I just put in Dex VI, great stuff!!

Okay, I'm going to show my ignorance here, but it doesn't bother me...

I read your posts and looked up DEX VI...found that it is Automatic Transmission Fluid...thought to myself...why put ATF in a manual transmission. I called Castrol customer service...they looked up my viper and told me that they didn't have a transmission fluid in their charts for my viper...their charts actually stated...'not for viper'. I couldn't find any automatic transmission fluids on their website.

What am I missing here? Please feel free to dumb it down for someone of my limited comprehension level.

 

[Dom426h]

You were kidding about the ATF right?

No, ATF was the factory fill for many vipers.

I recently swapped the fluid in my 96 RT to the Mopar synth. Just under 4 quarts. What came out appeared to be ATF. Huge improvement in the way the car shifts.

The improvement was likely do to the Fresh fluid. Not the diff type of fluid. If anything switching from ATF to 75w85 will cause an increased shifting effort untill the fluid gets heated up because the thicker cold viscosity isnt able to get in the syncros as fast as the ATF.(especially on a pre-1998 T-56's with carbonfiber syncros)

...why put ATF in a manual transmission.
What am I missing here? Please feel free to dumb it down for someone of my limited comprehension level.

ATF is specified for Many Manual transmissions these days:

"Step one is to get the appropriate amounts of the right lubricants. Manual transmissions use 80W-90-weight gear lube, right? Uh, not always. Some manufacturers actually use automatic transmission fluid. Read that again, slowly: Your manual transmission might be filled with ATF. The advantage of ATF over gear lube is its thinner viscosity, which means less drag and, consequently, improved fuel economy. Appropriately, the gears and bearings in transmissions that specify ATF are engineered to use the thinner lube. So, don't think you can save yourself some gas by putting ATF in your manual transmission unless it was designed for it.

Read the lubricant specifications page of the owner's manual carefully--if your manual transmission takes automatic trans fluid, you'd better know which ATF. These days there are nearly a half-dozen types of fluid on the market. There is no such thing as a universal fluid. Wait, it gets even weirder: There are at least a few manual gearboxes that are supposed to be filled with engine oil. So read your manual, don't ask too many questions, then buy and use what is specified."-popular mechanics

 

[fe4snake]

I just did mine with Red Line Oil GL4 for $13/qt, you will need four quarts,

 

[VIPER BAZ UK]

4 qrts I use castrol SMX-S cant get the syntorq here...

Castrol SMX S 75w-85 Fully Synthetic Manual Transmission Fluid

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/castrol/CastrolSMXS.pdf

 

[99 R/T 10]

No, ATF was the factory fill for many vipers.


The improvement was likely do to the Fresh fluid. Not the diff type of fluid. If anything switching from ATF to 75w85 will cause an increased shifting effort untill the fluid gets heated up because the thicker cold viscosity isnt able to get in the syncros as fast as the ATF.(especially on a pre-1998 T-56's with carbonfiber syncros)



ATF is specified for Many Manual transmissions these days:

"Step one is to get the appropriate amounts of the right lubricants. Manual transmissions use 80W-90-weight gear lube, right? Uh, not always. Some manufacturers actually use automatic transmission fluid. Read that again, slowly: Your manual transmission might be filled with ATF. The advantage of ATF over gear lube is its thinner viscosity, which means less drag and, consequently, improved fuel economy. Appropriately, the gears and bearings in transmissions that specify ATF are engineered to use the thinner lube. So, don't think you can save yourself some gas by putting ATF in your manual transmission unless it was designed for it.

Read the lubricant specifications page of the owner's manual carefully--if your manual transmission takes automatic trans fluid, you'd better know which ATF. These days there are nearly a half-dozen types of fluid on the market. There is no such thing as a universal fluid. Wait, it gets even weirder: There are at least a few manual gearboxes that are supposed to be filled with engine oil. So read your manual, don't ask too many questions, then buy and use what is specified."-popular mechanics

Great write up, plus one of the main reasons they went to Castrol Syntorq was the annoying NGR. I believe Dodge used Dex 3 ATF from 1992-1997, then swithced to the gear oil.

Another weird thing is I just change the tranny fluid in my 91 jeep, instead of the factory fill, it is now recommended to use 10-30W motor oil.................

 

[BOTTLEFED]

I said it first......................

I know,,, I was just clarifying that it was not a joke.
I took your advice and used DEXVI as well on my fluid change.


I'm sure Tom will chime in here, but ATF is more popular for manual trans. than gear oils (as Dom mentioned) in newer cars, and more manufacturers are changing their recommendations over to it in their manuals.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

I think we've all hit upon parts of the proper answer.

Early cars used ATF Dexron IIIE. This is a ~7 cSt viscosity product (roughly an SAE 20) with lots of additives for anti-wear, proper friction, oxidation protection, etc. When the transmission got hot, the "rattle" when in neutral was objectionable, so Dodge moved to a 75W-85W product. That is not a typo, the Castrol Syntorq is truly a 75W-85W, even though the Dodge bottle says 75W-80. In any case, such an oil is only an SAE 30-ish grade, so everyone thinking they got something much thicker - surprise!

The Syntorq / Mopar fluid is GL-4 NOT NOT GL-5. Do not use gear oil. Hypoid gear additives are extremely aggressive and not suitable for manual transmissions. GL-4 = T-56. GL-5 = Dana rear.

Because of syncho material compatibility, early T-56's that used ATF aren't supposed to use the thicker oil, but later T-56's can use either. In fact, I think the newest T-56 went back to ATF. This is again a reminder that it's the additives that count, not just the viscosity (thickness.)

For frugal-minded, regular driving, a normal ATF (maybe a synthetic ATF if you want a step up) would be acceptable for any model year T-56. The ATF will shift better when cold, shift fine when warmed up and might rattle in neutral. The 75W-85W will shift a little harder when cold, be fine when warm, be quiet in neutral.

I advocate visiting your Viper-friendly Dodge dealer. If you can't find that combination of Viper-friendly and Dodge dealer, then go to the GM dealer and ask about their Synthetic Manual Transmission fluid as used by the Corvette T-56. It won't say Castrol on the outside, but guess what's on the inside...

The hint from Dave was the "NV4500" in small print on the bottom left. That would be the NV-4500 transfer case in Dodge 4WD trucks that also use the Castrol Syntorq fluid.

Finally, the quantity. My service and owners manual say 4 qts, but somewhere it says fill to the fill hole. So you have to raise the car on 4 jacks, be more or less level, and fill until it won't hold any more. It will be somewhat less than 4 quarts.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Thanks for the reminder Tom.

 

[dave6666]

https://www.amsoil.com/catalog.aspx?code=MTGQT-EA

 

[Fatboy 18]

https://www.amsoil.com/catalog.aspx?code=MTGQT-EA

Yep, that's what I use

 

[Sveina]

Early cars used ATF Dexron IIIE. This is a ~7 cSt viscosity product (roughly an SAE 20) with lots of additives for anti-wear, proper friction, oxidation protection, etc.

Because of syncho material compatibility, early T-56's that used ATF aren't supposed to use the thicker oil, but later T-56's can use either. In fact, I think the newest T-56 went back to ATF. This is again a reminder that it's the additives that count, not just the viscosity (thickness.)

When you say proper friction, it's intended for an automatic trans proper friction level, which in an automatic you got those clutch disks which need to have it's amount of friction to work. The trannys which is intended for use with ATF is the friction probably calculated in for the use of ATF (lots of older cars too had ATF original fill, like Volvos). In the newer transmissions which can use both ATF and GL4, I would use GL4 because of the lower friction coeffisient you can get when using an oil with the right anti-friction additives (since these are made without the need for any friction for any type of clutch), and the possobility for choosing the wrong ATF for your fill if you ain't really into oils. What oil are you using?

 

[99 R/T 10]

When you say proper friction, it's intended for an automatic trans proper friction level, which in an automatic you got those clutch disks which need to have it's amount of friction to work. The trannys which is intended for use with ATF is the friction probably calculated in for the use of ATF (lots of older cars too had ATF original fill, like Volvos). In the newer transmissions which can use both ATF and GL4, I would use GL4 because of the lower friction coeffisient you can get when using an oil with the right anti-friction additives (since these are made without the need for any friction for any type of clutch), and the possobility for choosing the wrong ATF for your fill if you ain't really into oils. What oil are you using?

You're new here, that great. You'll find Tom is THE most knowledgeable guy when it comes to Oils/fuel. He is our "go-to" guy

 

[LifeIsGood]

...What kind of oil are ya using?...

What oil are you using?

I'm also planning an oil change along with the transmission fluid change as part of my winter storage. I plan on using Mobil 1 Fully Synthetic 10W30.

I'm curious to know why this question popped up twice in this thread about transmission fluids...is there a correlation between the fluids? Don't forget to dumb it down...I'm an idiot.

 

[uvbnbit]

Fuels & Lubes Geek of the Realm (never hurts to remind)

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

When you say proper friction, it's intended for an automatic trans proper friction level, which in an automatic you got those clutch disks which need to have it's amount of friction to work. The trannys which is intended for use with ATF is the friction probably calculated in for the use of ATF (lots of older cars too had ATF original fill, like Volvos). In the newer transmissions which can use both ATF and GL4, I would use GL4 because of the lower friction coeffisient you can get when using an oil with the right anti-friction additives (since these are made without the need for any friction for any type of clutch), and the possobility for choosing the wrong ATF for your fill if you ain't really into oils. What oil are you using?

Hi Sveina,
Yes, ATFs have a special friction requirement to operate in an automatic and the level of friction is adjusted to be not too low and not too high, but just right. This allows the clutches to engage smoothly and the shifts feel good, but not to slip when fully engaged.

In a manual transmission, the synchronizer ring also has a friction surface to bring the gear that you are selecting (with the shift forks) up to speed. If they are not at the same speed, it feels like a hard shift. When you blip the throttle you are doing the same thing - bring the synchro and gear to the same speed. The early T56 had a "paper" type friction material that was said to be incompatible with the GL4 oils.

Also, if the oil (either ATF or GL4) is too slippery or too viscous, then the synchro and gear, when pressed against each other while you shift gears, won't come to the same speed and again it's hard to shift. This would be what people experience when the GL4 oil is cold - the oil film is too thick and there is too much slippage.

ATFs are highly tested by OEMs because they are often fill-for-life, even though people are supposed to change them periodically. One of the requirements is that they are "backwards compatible" so that new versions of DEXRON always work in older transmissions. Therefore a new DEXRON VI oil should work fine in a transmission requiring DEXRON IIIE oil.

LiG - there is no connection between transmission and engine oils when in the car.

 

[eucharistos]

....
ATFs are highly tested by OEMs because they are often fill-for-life, even though people are supposed to change them periodically. One of the requirements is that they are "backwards compatible" so that new versions of DEXRON always work in older transmissions. Therefore a new DEXRON VI oil should work fine in a transmission requiring DEXRON IIIE oil.
.....

note to self, just buy the new version

thanks tom

 

[uvbnbit]

The "paper" type friction material Tom mentioned is what gave me some issues this past year. 2-3 shift was "chunky", esp when cold. I had it rebuilt and the mechanic said the friction material was wore out because I'd switched to the Synthetic (because of the NGR). I use the Dexron VI now. I know there were some difference/issues around '97-'98 I think there is a TSB on this somewhere....