VIPER1996
Enthusiast
I am thinking about buying Bigr1's headers. I have a 94 with K&N filters and smooth tubes. I also have Borla 3 inch cat back exhaust. 180 thermo. What kind of gains can I expect with the Dodge performance headers added.
HP gain with headers???
- Thread starter VIPER1996
- Start date
RockyTop
Enthusiast
Take a look at the FAQs on this site. On my GTS, my SVS headers and 3" exhaust and enlarged airbox in combination added only an incremental 3o or so rwhp over stock with K&Ns.
This is not an advertisement for Bellanger headers, but my 95, which is otherwise stock, got an added 63 rwhp and 51 ft lbs of rwtorque. No cats and three inch pipes. The price was high, but worth the results, to me anyway.
XS TORQ
Enthusiast
I believe that Bigr1's headers are the "stock" Mopar headers that came on late model Vipers. No real HP gains (maybe a couple) but they save something like 25 pounds. Probably not a great bang for the buck upgrade.
VIPER1996
Enthusiast
I bought my Viper used from a guy in North Carolina. He is good friends with an engineer at Borla. They actually took the car to Borla and installed the 3 inch exhaust. The engineer told the previous owner not to spend the $1800 for the headers because it would only give him about 10 to 15 HP. The previous owner also claims that the Borla exhaust they put on my car is tuned to the car. Basically he said that it gives you optimum horsepower and flow. I can actually put my hands on my sidepipe covers and they are barely warm after driving it. Before they exhaust install the previous owner said that they would burn your legs getting out. I am happy with the performance of my Viper now but I just thought for the money ($450) it might not be to bad of an investment. If I am only going to get 10hp or so I might reconsider putting them on. As it is now I can do anything in 1st gear without smoking the tires and fighting terrible wheel hop!!!!!!! Any solutions to the wheel hop?
I thought i was the only one with the bad wheel hop. I've changed shocks and springs, hasn't helped. I am changing the spring rates next week along with the shock settings- I'll let you know what happens. Anyone else have this problem?? Is it only in the gen one cars? I havn't heard anyone else complain about it. Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thnaks John
99 R/T 10
Enthusiast
I believe that the people got rid of the wheel hop by switching tires to V700 Kumhos. Great traction too, I plan on getting a set myself.
Vipermed 97.01
Enthusiast
don't waist you're time unless you're going to put decent coated headers on as they are a good mod,but in the case of Mopar street headers they are the exact headers put on 98 up Vipers only gain from you're current is weight reduction,not worth the aggravation
GCHDEALER
Enthusiast
As far as sidepipes getting hot goes....My exhaust is stock and it does not burn your leg when you get out of the car. Wheel Hop....terrible I do not even try to burn the tires for this reason.
Newport Viper
Enthusiast
I put these shocks on, and for some reason wheel hop is gone! www.edelbrock.com
Can shocks fix wheel hop?
Can shocks fix wheel hop?
joe117
Enthusiast
I had wheel hop with the old hard Pilots. The car also seemed to track every groove and irregularity in the road. I put on V700 Kumho DOT tires and both problems went away.
We have two issue here :
1. Power
2. Funds or money or moolah, etc.
The price for the Borla header and other items is very fair, and you won't touch a Belanger,etc.for that. I do believe we have to take a Borla Engineer with the same grain of salt as a Edelbrock Engineer --- their personal products will always be the best. Will you see a nice improvement with the Borla headers?The answer is yes. Are they the equivalent of the Belanger? The answer to that is no! In actual practice the Borla is at the lower spectrum for total performance, and it was easily proven in 2000 when 24 Vipers were all dyno-tested at Mid Ohio for the Viper Racing League. As a prerequisite to keeping cars equal, the motors were going to be sealed after testing for hp/torque. The idea was to have a level playing field and make sure no one had an unfair advantage or had gotten to the internals. The results were very surprising, as the Snakes with Belanger or Archer headers were all putting out the best power --- and it was often 15-25 more than some of the others. The Borla headers ( which are MoPar ) were mid-pack to lower , with Hennessey's being the very lowest.
This was dramatic enough for most everyone racing to choose a Belanger or Archer ( CDI ) setup.
The second example is more on a corporate level. For two years running the winning car at the One Lap of America has been a Viper driven by two Michelin tire engineers. The headers used on those cars were...............drum roll, please................
BELANGERS! Nuff said, but the cost of the headers you are thinking of buying are priced " mucho cheapo," so they would be a very cost effective upgrade. Best of luck and you can't lose either way.Get the Belangers and you have more power, but the Borlas from a private party will be alot less moolah!!
1. Power
2. Funds or money or moolah, etc.
The price for the Borla header and other items is very fair, and you won't touch a Belanger,etc.for that. I do believe we have to take a Borla Engineer with the same grain of salt as a Edelbrock Engineer --- their personal products will always be the best. Will you see a nice improvement with the Borla headers?The answer is yes. Are they the equivalent of the Belanger? The answer to that is no! In actual practice the Borla is at the lower spectrum for total performance, and it was easily proven in 2000 when 24 Vipers were all dyno-tested at Mid Ohio for the Viper Racing League. As a prerequisite to keeping cars equal, the motors were going to be sealed after testing for hp/torque. The idea was to have a level playing field and make sure no one had an unfair advantage or had gotten to the internals. The results were very surprising, as the Snakes with Belanger or Archer headers were all putting out the best power --- and it was often 15-25 more than some of the others. The Borla headers ( which are MoPar ) were mid-pack to lower , with Hennessey's being the very lowest.
This was dramatic enough for most everyone racing to choose a Belanger or Archer ( CDI ) setup.
The second example is more on a corporate level. For two years running the winning car at the One Lap of America has been a Viper driven by two Michelin tire engineers. The headers used on those cars were...............drum roll, please................
BELANGERS! Nuff said, but the cost of the headers you are thinking of buying are priced " mucho cheapo," so they would be a very cost effective upgrade. Best of luck and you can't lose either way.Get the Belangers and you have more power, but the Borlas from a private party will be alot less moolah!!
Sniper
Enthusiast
My .02!
I have Borla headers(which I believe are Mopar), hi-flo cats, Borla race mufflers, and Vec1. My car dynos at 404 rwhp and 502 torque. It will pull a Gen II any speed and any gear. To compare, raced Gen II that had 436 rwhp and 469 rwtq, 40 to 130 pulled a car and a half. He has told me I pull on him as hard as his friend whose car is at 454 rwhp and 504 rwtq. Reason being, Gen I cars have alot more power at lower rpm's than Gen II's. There was also a guy in our club who paid out $7,000 to $8,000 for a Belanger set up and ended up getting a 7 rwhp increase over stock.
You can look up all these dyno charts under Kansas City Dyno Day that Chris Marshall posted in the archives. I paid $3100 for all that plus it came with smooth tubes, air filters, and aluminum flywheel from Roe Racing.
I have Borla headers(which I believe are Mopar), hi-flo cats, Borla race mufflers, and Vec1. My car dynos at 404 rwhp and 502 torque. It will pull a Gen II any speed and any gear. To compare, raced Gen II that had 436 rwhp and 469 rwtq, 40 to 130 pulled a car and a half. He has told me I pull on him as hard as his friend whose car is at 454 rwhp and 504 rwtq. Reason being, Gen I cars have alot more power at lower rpm's than Gen II's. There was also a guy in our club who paid out $7,000 to $8,000 for a Belanger set up and ended up getting a 7 rwhp increase over stock.
You can look up all these dyno charts under Kansas City Dyno Day that Chris Marshall posted in the archives. I paid $3100 for all that plus it came with smooth tubes, air filters, and aluminum flywheel from Roe Racing.
Tim
Viper Owner
With smooth tubes, K&N’s and no Cats and stock mufflers seem to work well on my 94 RT10 with no loss’s against the Gen 2’s that are stock or against my buddy who is running Cat Back, Borla Headers and exhaust on his 99 GTS. I will be changing out my mufflers this spring with something a little less restrictive to see how well that works.
There are many posts in here that show Gen 1’s and Gen 2’s in different configurations as well as those that are set up similar to mine with no headers that that make as much power as similar cars with headers. Personally I feel that unless the car is modified a little further the stock factory headers are sufficient on the Gen 1 cars.
Tim
There are many posts in here that show Gen 1’s and Gen 2’s in different configurations as well as those that are set up similar to mine with no headers that that make as much power as similar cars with headers. Personally I feel that unless the car is modified a little further the stock factory headers are sufficient on the Gen 1 cars.
Tim
Newport Viper
Enthusiast
No headers yet... numbers below.
Matt,
I commend you on your driving, but I don't think I would use a blanket statement that you can take any Gen II, any gear, etc., as you will probably be open for some intense matches. Why not go to Viper Days in May at Mid America Motorplex ( just a short drive of less than 2 hours for you ) and find out how quick the car really is. There will be 60-80 Snakes there, and you will have a chance to test your theory.
I commend you on your driving, but I don't think I would use a blanket statement that you can take any Gen II, any gear, etc., as you will probably be open for some intense matches. Why not go to Viper Days in May at Mid America Motorplex ( just a short drive of less than 2 hours for you ) and find out how quick the car really is. There will be 60-80 Snakes there, and you will have a chance to test your theory.
1TONY1
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bill Pemberton:
The second example is more on a corporate level. For two years running the winning car at the One Lap of America has been a Viper driven by two Michelin tire engineers. The headers used on those cars were...............drum roll, please................
BELANGERS!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And they wouldn't have won with other headers ??? No worse than Matts statement.
Any real header will be a noticable difference, I would go for the cheaper $$$ and any used Viper header should be in good shape.
The second example is more on a corporate level. For two years running the winning car at the One Lap of America has been a Viper driven by two Michelin tire engineers. The headers used on those cars were...............drum roll, please................
BELANGERS!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And they wouldn't have won with other headers ??? No worse than Matts statement.
Any real header will be a noticable difference, I would go for the cheaper $$$ and any used Viper header should be in good shape.
Sniper
Enthusiast
My statement wasn't made on my driving skills, it was made on the two cars power to power. We did 4 to 5 on the roll races, no dead stop races, to see how strong my car was after my exhaust work. We put cars in same gear, hit gas at same time, ... I know alot of people don't believe 404 hp can beat 436 hp, oh well. Just goes to show what you don't know. Overlap a Gen I's chart over a Gen II's, you'll see what I mean. All that they did was take away low end power and move it to top end power from a Gen I to a Gen II. Check out the K.C. dyno day!
And I did not say any Gen II, I said it will pull a Gen II-any speed, any gear. What I should've said was a stock Gen II. I have not raced the 454 hp car, just what I was told by comparison how hard my car pulled on him.
Now, above 150 mph, the Gen II will surely have to pull on me, but I haven't been to that level yet with another car!
And I did not say any Gen II, I said it will pull a Gen II-any speed, any gear. What I should've said was a stock Gen II. I have not raced the 454 hp car, just what I was told by comparison how hard my car pulled on him.
Now, above 150 mph, the Gen II will surely have to pull on me, but I haven't been to that level yet with another car!
Viperrick
Enthusiast
Maui Viper, Now I have heard that yellow Viper are supposedly faster but the number 411 that you posted must be a corrected number with some sort of black magic correction factor. Just curious what was the dyno hp before the math computation? Stock early Vipers usually pull about 360 h.p.
Newport Viper
Enthusiast
Rich,
See bandit3 numbers. Same ballpark, no correction. I think Matt Kovak is in the same area. Gen 1 can have some awesome TQ numbers. I ran mine on pefect 80' dry, no to low humidity (CA) day. Put in new plugs, no fan, after 30 min. drive to dyno. The operators where impressed. Took second run same thing. I was happy! Running Sean Roe Cats and XR-1 racing mufflers. S&B filters and tubes. Sean Roes car is in the same RWHP/RWTQ numbers too! I have seen other dyno days on here with high gen1 TQ numbers. Can anyone explain this. Sean? JonB? DJ?
Aloha!
See bandit3 numbers. Same ballpark, no correction. I think Matt Kovak is in the same area. Gen 1 can have some awesome TQ numbers. I ran mine on pefect 80' dry, no to low humidity (CA) day. Put in new plugs, no fan, after 30 min. drive to dyno. The operators where impressed. Took second run same thing. I was happy! Running Sean Roe Cats and XR-1 racing mufflers. S&B filters and tubes. Sean Roes car is in the same RWHP/RWTQ numbers too! I have seen other dyno days on here with high gen1 TQ numbers. Can anyone explain this. Sean? JonB? DJ?
Aloha!
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