Huge Drag Race Event Today......And the WINNER is.......

[TX WHOS YOUR DADDY]

CONGRATS TO TEAM RSI!IT WAS GREAT SEEING OLD FRIENDS AND MEETING NEW ONES!PETER BACH AND PRASHANT PATEL PUT ON A FIRST CLASS EVENT! NORM K

 

[ronviper]

To all who took part in this event congrats, however i would just hope all the hype BS would stop. At the track is where all the BS stops so congradulate the winner and try to knock him off next time. It doesn't matter what your power adder is or how much you used the purpose of racing is to bring what you have and hope it's enough NO EXCUSES PERIOD. I have yet to see anyone go to the track with the intent to lose, the results speak for themselves.

 

[jkracer9]

GregGood
Bottom line is that I will have my car ready to run TNT if and when the time is right. Nick can drive and no one has ever said that he could not. I personally believe that Albert and SW can drive just as and even better.
Once all of this motor (and you know what I am talking about) crap is behind us I can only hope that a great event with all tuners and drivers will be in the near future.
What I have witnessed in my short time w/ Vipers is their needs to be some house cleaning in order. RSI has produced exactly what was promised and more. As long as time allows my Viper will be at many of the Viper races and I am sure that Tony's Viper will someday line up against mine. When I win that will not be the end as other races will produce other winners, on and on. If I were to say good luck to any driver it would be to all the others as I personally feel that the drivers that have driven the RSI cars do not need luck. To quote a famous person "you ain't seen nothing yet" and that is how I feel about what is in the future at RSI, the best is yet to come.
Greg, port on
Will my car win, who knows
Rohn
RSI Unlimited

 

[SnakeBitten]

Was this a Supra event???If so it seems like the domestics keep beating them at there own events... Is the Supra that ran the 8.9 the same Methynol burning Powerhouse/Titan Motorsports[?] one that ran an 8.9 last year or is this yet another Monster Supra ...............Congrats to all winners and losers....This is what owning a performance car is all about....You win some you lose some...

 

[BigCarrot]

JKracer9, reading all of your posts is such a BEATING! We all understand how you feel. You may be right, but GEEZ, you're wearing me out! Am I the only one that feels this way???

 

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

jkracer9:
I personally feel that the drivers that have driven the RSI cars do not need luck.

Rohn: Well.....I don't know about that. I think there was surely some luck involved in that final round. But that's just my always humble opinion. When I talked to Nick yesterday morning he was feeling bad because he thought that he had let everyone at the shop down by redlighting. I told him he had nothing to be ashamed of. He showed up and drove the best he could. The only people that will criticize him are those that can't drive as well as he does. I think all of the things you have been saying about him lately are actually having a positive effect on him. I haven't seen Nick this focused and determined in a long time. It reminds me of the old Nick I knew years back. I am proud of Nick for not responding to internet flame wars, but instead, behaving in a proffesional manner, and letting the car he drives, and his driving abilities, do the talking for him.



Albert: I get the impression from your posts that you think putting an automatic transmission into a clutch car, in this case a Viper, makes it go faster. I respectfully disagree. It does the opposite. Why is the correction factor to get flywheel horsepower on a Dynojet dyno 20% for an automatic, and 15%-17% for a clutch? Why do the NHRA stockers and super stockers with automatic tranny's have a slower index than those of otherwise equivalent clutch cars, sometimes as much as a tenth slower? A clue: It's because an automatic robs power. Dr. Fudges car doesn't run 9.90's because it has an automatic in it. It runs 9.90's in spite of it. The reason Dr. Fudge's Viper has an automatic transmission is because he bracket races it. It there for the consistency it adds, which is necessary for a bracket car.

Greg Good out.

 

[ronviper]

Greg i totally disagree with you a good automatic with the proper stall will always beat a clutch car. The shifts are percise and constant unlike a clutch which depends on human input of shifting. There is no lost of power under full load like a stick car, also the torque multiplication of the stall helps the sixty foot which makes et better. Try driving a turbo car that is stick and one that is automatic, the automatic will always win because you are at full boost all the time. Greg of course i am talking cars making big horsepower, not a stock factory car.

 

[BigCarrot]

I'd rather have an auto with the proper converter and gears than a stick in a quarter mile car. You lose a little power, but you gain a lot in other areas. The right torque converter is a magical thing!

 

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

ronviper: A turbocharged car does benefit from an automatic, because with an automatic you can apply the trans brake and load the engine while staging, which "spools up" the turbo (start building boost) before the car launches. This is something you can't do with a clutch car, so yes, in that circumstance, you would be correct. But this doesn't apply to a normally aspirated engine.

A clutch car requires greater skill to drive, hence the reason drivers like SW are held in such high esteem. Most normal people will do better with an automatic, but that doesn't mean they are inherently better. That just means that the average guy finds them easier to drive fast.

A clutch is still the most efficient way to transfer power to the transmission.

 

[jkracer9]

Greg
First, I did say that your boy was a good driver and second I am glad to have helped out. Now if other things will turn around we can all play fair, iet.

Big Car rot, did you get your answer?
Scroooooool down and pass up the ones YOU don't want to read it might be easier on you.
Greg
Flames are over, I got what I wanted, my Block, enough said.
Best of luck
Rohn

 

[TX WHOS YOUR DADDY]

GREG GOOD/TNT.....HMMMMMMMMM..... ON PAPER A STICK CAR HAS LESS POWER LOSS CORRECTION FACTOR THEN AN AUTOMATIC.ON THE DRAG STRIP AUTOS DOMINATE STICKS ALL DAY LONG.YES IT DOES TAKE MORE PRACTICE TO DRIVE A STICK SHIFT DOWN THE STRIP BUT THEN THAT WHAT IT IS .......PRACTICE.... WHICH ANYONE WITH AVERAGE ABILITY AND AGILITY CAN DO.....THE MORE PRACTICE THE BETTER THE SKILL BECOMES......THIS BY NO MEANS MINIMIZES REALLY GOOD STICK SHIFT DRIVERS....ITS SIMPLY MEANS THEY HAVE ACCUMUALTED A GREAT DEAL OF TIME BEHIND THIER STICK SHIFT DRIVING......KINDA LIKE U AND HEAD PORTING.REGARDS!NORM K

 

[Prashant]

SnakeBitten, this is the second year in a row that Peter Blach and I have put together the Drag Event for Supra's Vs. Vipers and it seems to be getting better and better..I can't wait until next year. that 8.9 was run on race fuel and not any alternative fuel as this was not allowed in the Unlimited class. BTW the Titan Supra is a 6 speed! with a stock rear end and tranny!!

 

[Dr Roof]

Prashant this was an awesome Event! I never realized how fast these supra's are. Glad the Vipers came out on top though.

I will be calling to get your help on the V-10 Nationals

 

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

Norm K wrote:

ON THE DRAG STRIP AUTOS DOMINATE STICKS ALL DAY LONG.

Where? Do you mean by the shear numbers of them in use? If so, then yes, they dominate. That's because they're a no brainer to use, relatively speaking. From what I've seen in the last 25 years, automatics typically don't run faster than clutch cars, except in the few cases where a car has way more horsepower than can be put to the ground, such as a nitrous car on a slippery track. Automatics rule in this situation because they do not shock the tires as hard as a clutch car does, and seem to be easier to get down a bad track. I think a Viper on nitrous may fit into this category. Face it, automatics are out there in higher numbers, especially in bracket racing, because they are more user friendly, and require less maintenence. People wanting a LMB (low maintenace b i t c h) like them. I appreciate your input though.

There are obviously differing opinions between us on this subject, but this is the way I see it. Salt to taste:

On a motor only car, like a 650+ horse Viper for example, if you want to run your fastest, you need a clutch. In my opinion, the best setup would be to have a clutch that is adjustable for base pressure, and has lockup levers with weights to get the thing to lock up in high gear. Then there needs to be a Racepac computer on the car to get the base pressure, launch rpm, and the right amount of weight for lockup in high gear set up. A car set up like this will not get beat by an automatic car on a good track, all other things being equal. A car set up in this way, along with a driver of the likes of SW, Nick, or Albert, will have a clear advantage on an automatic car from the starting line all the way to the finish line.

That a clutch setup is faster than an automatic on a car running in the 9 second range with motor only is indisputable, in my view. I don't see where it is arguable that a automatic is faster. The facts don't support it. If some of you disagree, then maybe you should try getting NHRA to switch the index breaks that automatic cars in Stock and Super Stock enjoy over to the stick cars. Let me know how that goes. I doubt you will get any joy from it.

I haven't congratulated RSI and SW on their win yet. I want to do that now.

Rohn, I appreciate your attitude, and am looking forward to seeing some friendly competition between your RSI car and Tony's car. I have no idea who will win either, but it will be good racing. That's for sure.

Cheers.

 

[jkracer9]

About Peter Blach
Don't know him all that well or haven't known him that long but what he has shown is class. Peter, thank you for the class event, It was a fantastic day. I was told that you are the one that arranged for the sun to shine all day also, great job. The Viper guys better get ready, I think the Supra racers will be their nextyear hungry.
One thing and you probably know this now. Make a stop before leaving on any trip, It cuts down on that "I got to stop now daddy"

Greg
You to, See you at the track.

Rohn

 

[jkracer9]

DVD's are available
Anyone wanting a DVD can contact Extreme Motor Sports Video Production. Ask for Garth Weaver, great guy.
1-888-248-0405
or
www.extrememotorsports.tv

I have a number for single photos if anyone is interested.

Dr. Roof
Contact Garth, he would like to make a DVD of your event and the cost is not that bad.

 

[ronviper]

Hi Greg,
My son has a Vortech supercharge Mustang it runs 9.90 at 1.43 with a stick, the car is so violent when he shifts it goes sideways in 2nd and third while lifting the wheels in 2nd. He changed to an automatic and runs consistent 9.50 at the same mph. The car goes straight at the shift points without kicking out or bouncing around, he dyno 700rwhp. He can drive a stick like you would not believe most of his friends ask him to drive their car to get better times.

 

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

ronviper: I don't know all of the particulars about your sons car (tire size/chassis setup/clutch type) but it sounds like a traction problem. When this problem exists you have two choices, make the car hook better through whatever means available, or remove some power.

 

[HouseofSpeed]

Greg...I think what is missing in the discussion concerning stick V. auto concerns the new generation of autos that are PCM controlled. A F.A.S.T. controlled 4L60 or a prepped Lentech AOD can transfer as much power, as efficiently as a multi-disc clutch setup can..and that is nowhere more evident than in some of the heads-up classes (PRO, NMRA, FFW, etc).

I do agree that there is more skill involved in driving a clutch car than a stab and steer setup...but the only thing remembered at the end of the day is who got the win light, not whether its an auto or a stick.

Sorry I missed the excitement...heard that there was a Jerry Springer moment involving an ****** from the track by the local constabulary.

 

[jkracer9]

Viper clutch
What is the best clutch to use on high RWHP Vipers. Would a multi disc work, is their one available for a viper?

 

[ronviper]

Morning Gre,
I am not here to change your mind however the only change to my son's stang was the transmission. His 60' is between 1.38 and 1.41, its the shift points notice the mph is the same. Also if he used a lockup converter his mph would increase by 5to 7mph more. Most of the high powered Vipers would benefit from a auto because they have the mph but et like crap. My twin turbo stage 2 GN runs with a turbo 400 and 5000 stall at 8.70 at 155mph., most vipers running 150 plus only et 9.40 to 9.50. They are making the power to run low 9's high 8's, could trans be the problem???

 

[Anthony - 98 GTS]

Morning Gre,
I am not here to change your mind however the only change to my son's stang was the transmission. His 60' is between 1.38 and 1.41, its the shift points notice the mph is the same. Also if he used a lockup converter his mph would increase by 5to 7mph more. Most of the high powered Vipers would benefit from a auto because they have the mph but et like crap. My twin turbo stage 2 GN runs with a turbo 400 and 5000 stall at 8.70 at 155mph., most vipers running 150 plus only et 9.40 to 9.50. They are making the power to run low 9's high 8's, could trans be the problem???

Independent rear end and poor weight transfer also contribute to the Vipers "poor" quarter mile ET's.

 

[V10TT]

HoustonT, do you have E-mail?

 

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

ronviper, You probably won't change my mind but I'm enjoying the debate anyway. I understand how you can see things the way you do. Your son put an auomatic transmission in a car that was not hooking up with a standard, and he went faster with it. It happens a lot. But the data you are seeing and presenting to me is anecdotal.

Lots of people have problems hooking up, automatic cars too. I'll give you an example. The School of Automotive Machinists, where I once taught the cylinder head class, has a Chevy Malibu that they raced in NMCA. It had a powerglide and ran in a street tire class. Even with an automatic it would still blow the tires off when launching. There were only two solutions. 1, run a tight converter. That didn't work because it lugged the engine down too far on the gear change. 2, which worked, and probably would have helped your sons car a lot also, was to run an MSD timing retard. It was set to retard the timing for a set length of time, essentially detuning the engine on the launch to a horsepower level that the car could handle, and then bringing the timing and horsepower back when the car was far enough along in its run to handle everything the engine could dish out. These boxes also work on standard shift cars.

Kyle, the car in question doesn't have anything as space age and exotic as a computer controlled transmission in it. It has a completely unassuming old Torqueflite with just a basic garden variety bracket race converter in it. Nothing Comp eliminator or "trick" about it.