I wonder what the Gen 3 guys are going to do?

[SnakeCharmer99]

What ever happened to the tried and true method of taking loads of cash and buying the latest current model, then take another exorbitant amount and be a kid in the candy store and get everything under the sun to make it your own, enjoy it for a few years, sell it for not nearly what you have into it and buy the next current model and start all over again?

 

[rcdice]

I love these posts. My observations and opinions (.02):

Rumors of a higher HP version coming soon DEFINITELY hurt current sales.

DCX is controlled by bean counters in Germany. If sales are too slow the plug could absolutely be pulled on the Viper (as mentioned).

Viper is an image/halo car for Dodge, so, hopefully DCX will recapture that image be uping the ante against the Z06. Perhaps as an 08 with availability in Spring 07.

The least costly solution would be to bring a much higher hp car out, say 600+, with the same basic platform and weight.

My guess is that they will bring a moderately higher hp motor (550 hp) with some weight savings for an awesome combined package.

Lastly, in the name of classic publicity stunts: Lets say DCX brings an unreal new car. We've heard concern of liability voiced on this board for the average shmo buying such a vehicle and offing himself in the process. What if DCX made every new Viper customer sign a waiver? A waiver stating that you understood the awesome power and held DCX harmless. How much free pub would that garner? A ton.

 

[rcdice]

"71'Wife Zero to Cranky 0.02sec(fastest yet)! "


That's funny!!

 

[Cop Magnet]

Can't get 650 HP out of the current block? Check GTS-R specs, 700 HP using factory block and tweaked heads. What about all the tuners using NA motors producing well over 700 HP?

Anything can be done, practicality and reliability will suffer though. Like Mopar says, it makes more sense to design a motor for more, and dial it back than try to extract more from a motor than it was designed for.

geez since post count matters one would think one would know.
gts-r used a gts-r block, not stock gen 2 block. different block, crank, rods, pistons, heads, dry sump and so on.

The GTS-R block, crank, rods, pistons, heads, dry sump and so on are factory efforts. My point was that motors producing 700HP can be made with existing technology directly from the factory. Now you want to argue that the Comp Coupe wasn't made by DC??

 

[DodgeViper01]

This is one topic that I must see to believe but 650HP in a stock car would be a VERY nice sight!!

 

[Batboy]

Even though this may be a rumor it is likely the 650hp goal is at the crank. Take 10-15% away and you are in the mid to upper 500hp range. I have heard of many N/A Vipers with heads cam etc. that have dynoed in the mid to upper 500's. Not impossible. But will DC do it? Not for a few years I say. So, buy up the coupe and have fun.

 

[MoparMan]

Of course the HP number is at the crank. 650HP and 700HP normally aspirated are very achievable and probably achievable in this day and age even given the restrictions put on the engine by the EPA. As far as liability, I guess DCX wouldn't have any more liability than they would for a ***** that goes out and drives his SRT-4 off the road and dies.

 

[V10SpeedLuvr]

If Dodge releases a new bodystyle 650HP Gen 4 Viper, I'm assuming the Gen 3 guys will do what a lot of Gen 1 and 2 guys will do....stand in line to buy one!

 

[V10SpeedLuvr]

As far as liability, I guess DCX wouldn't have any more liability than they would for a ***** that goes out and drives his SRT-4 off the road and dies.

Agreed. ANY car is dangerous if driven without maturity. Dodge shouldnt be held any more liable than any other automotive company who produces cars, even if the new Viper is faster than the speed of sound

 

[Vic]

I hope they dump the 90 degree block thing, and go with the more correct 72 degrees between the banks. Maybe then we could get a sweet exhaust note!

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

The GEN II motor can make 600 reliable HP with ported and polished stock heads, with bigger valves, extrude honed intake, and headers. Without cats 650 HP. I know because I have one a 99 ACR, motor assembled by CDI, in 2000. Of course the car is only driven on weekends.

 

[Viper23]

There is no 700 HP engine. There is no 650 HP standard engine coming at VOI in September. There have been a number of posts on this subject and both statements,upon close examination, are not supported by any credible evidence.
There is one thing that is perfectly clear. Posts like this can, if believed, negatively impact the sales of Vipers. This helps Dodge's competitors which leads me to believe that some posters on this board may be unwitting dupes of those competitors. The First Amendment is broad but there comes a point where intentionally reckless statements can be actionable. Knowingly stating something like it is a fact when it is actually an unproven rumor supported by mere supposition and hearsay on hearsay, to me, is reckless. Just my two cents.

Cummon Bob...do you honestly believe that anyone of us (Viper owners) would intentionally do such a thing.

I know for a fact that the DC people visit this board often and are very aware of our sentiments regarding the Viper. This would be the perfect place to see what future Viper owners want to induce them to buy another Viper, maybe their 2nd, 3rd or 4th. Some of you here are worried that threads like this would hurt Viper sales, but have you ever thought that healthy discussion, regardless if you think that what was stated was fact or mere rumor would inform DC about what they would need to do so that they sell more Vipers. With any business, you give what the customer wants. Now I am not saying that DC should do it right now, I understand that good things take time, but at least we can give them our opinion and should they decide to take it or not is up to them.

Just my 2 cents.

Or maybe....I am a Viper ***** and because VOI will be in Vegas and I will be there so I wanted to Hype it up so that more people will come for the festivities. You will never know unless you attend VOI9.

 

[Bobpantax]

Re: Viper23

There is nothing wrong with stating a desire to have more horsepower. There is something wrong with intentionally stating something to be a fact when the author of the post knows that it is not a fact. Among other things, it suggests that there is a leak by someone who works for DaimlerChrysler or who is a vendor of DaimlerChrysler ,who has undoubtedly signed some sort of confidentiality agreement, when, in fact, there is no such leak.

The bottom line is that the Viper has always been what I think of as a car that each of us can buy and then modify to suit our individual needs. The power level right now is more than enough for most people. Those who want more can achieve same all the way up to about 1500 HP for reasonable dollars per horsepower. It is no fluke that the Paxton article appeared in the Viper magazine quite some time ago. There are many Paxtons on SRT-10s. 700 horsepower at the flywheel or more is common. The Paxton comes with a decent warranty and satisfies EPA requirements when the stock cats are left on the vehicle.

SRT does not really need to do anything other than, perhaps, lighten the car a bit and consider having a "GTSR" like option available which offers the Mopar competition computer, Competition coupe cam, Competition coupe oil pan and competition exhaust as an option package for those who want a bit more power and trackability but do not want to supercharge.

I think that those of us who are waiting for a 650 or 700 hp vehicle from the factory before trading up from their Gen II are well intentioned but indulging in mental ************. A new Viper in hand, which can be modified today, is better than an absurd, continuing wish for the improbable.

 

[mit]

I think that those of us who are waiting for a 650 or 700 hp vehicle from the factory before trading up from their Gen II are well intentioned but indulging in mental ************. A new Viper in hand, which can be modified today, is better than an absurd, continuing wish for the improbable.

I have driven an SRT-10. It's a great car. It stops and corners better than my GTS. I think it's a good looking car. They have not done enough to make me trade my GTS plus $30,000+ for an SRT-10 or SRT coupe. Maybe it's a reflection on how much I like my car, maybe it's an indictment on the SRT maybe it's a little of both. A 650 horsepower car and I trade my GTS and left arm.

So to me, it's not a case where I would buy an SRT if I knew this was the high water mark for a while. Rather, I would probably dump more into mods on my GTS if I knew that 500 horsepower was all the factory was going to offer for the forseeable future. The idea that a 650 horsepower car could be on the horizon has me doing routine maintenance only until VOI 9. Even 550 hp with some weight savings would get me to make the plunge. As it stands right now, while the SRT is a better car I don't feel compelled to trade up. I am perfectly happy with what I have until they push the envelope one more time.

 

[Viper23]

Re: Viper23

I think that those of us who are waiting for a 650 or 700 hp vehicle from the factory before trading up from their Gen II are well intentioned but indulging in mental ************. A new Viper in hand, which can be modified today, is better than an absurd, continuing wish for the improbable.

Bob,

We all know that the VIper is DC flagship car and has always been, until as of late, the benchmark for our competitors. Did you honestly think that DC thought that just by throwing a hard top on their SRT and calling it a coupe will some how magically induce us to buy one?

Just take a look at what DC has now for cars. First off, you have the SRT8 Chargers, 300, and Magnums. These cars are putting out 425HP which is only 75 less than the Viper. Then we have the new SRT8 Challenger that should be putting out 450-475, which means King Viper will only be 25-50HP higher. Now that is only DC, I am not even going to mention the competitor (I am not going to bring up the Z06), Chevy with their new Camaro with about 450HP and Ford with their new Mustang with 450-475HP. By all means is not about the final numbers, because both of my Vipers had well over 700RWHP, which equates to over 800 crank HP. I bleed Mopar blue, all my cars are Mopars and would not think of getting another car.

With all the above examples, I have no doubt that DC will do something to reclaim the Viper's glory days. I also don't think that it would be very hard for DC to come out with a NA 650HP V10 engine. I heard this phrase once before "if you build it, they will come." Will I ever trade my Gen II for a new 650Hp coupe? Never! I will just buy me a new coupe and keep my Gen II.

 

[Bobpantax]

Those of us who had driver's licenses during the last "muscle car" wars of the early to late sixties remember that there came a point where Dodge, Plymouth, Ford, and Chevrolet had roughly equivalent power levels. As long as each car maker is "in the game", no one is going to be the "king of the hill". Until the new Z vette came out, the Viper was the only real player. (I do not count the prior Z vette.) We Viper owner's just have to face the fact that the stock Viper will not be at the top by itself - at least as far as quarter mile performance is concerned. As far as road racing is concerned, I still believe that the Viper maintains an advantage and is the best value.

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

Dodge has been kicking *** in styling, quality and performance. They don't need to take **** from anybody and I don't think they will.

 

[Mopar426]

Dodge has been kicking *** in styling, quality and performance. They don't need to take **** from anybody and I don't think they will.

You say that but I remeber the days where MOPAR was nowhere to be found say from 1975-1992. They didn't build anything worth getting excited about that I can recall. And now being bought out buy a German company who priority is Mercedes adds another wrench into the cogs...

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

Dodge has been kicking *** in styling, quality and performance. They don't need to take **** from anybody and I don't think they will.

You say that but I remeber the days where MOPAR was nowhere to be found say from 1975-1992. They didn't build anything worth getting excited about that I can recall. And now being bought out buy a German company who priority is Mercedes adds another wrench into the cogs...

Gimme a break, GM and Ford were also in the tank from a performance perspective for the same period. All caused by insurance and emissions regulations that hurt all performance cars. Your beloved Corvette was a 200hp loser for most of that period and did Corvette did not build anything worth buying until the 1990 ZR1. Which Viper had eclipsed by 92. And I would remind you that Dieter Zetche sp? who was CEO of Chrysler during the turnaround period is also CEO of EVERYTHING Mercedes does and I'm sure he has not forgotten where he came from, indeed he was always a huge Viper and SRT supporter, none of the current SRT models would have been built without his support. So your comment about a wrench in the cogs is nuts, the Germans supported all the performance car development

 

[rcdice]

I really hope DCX keeps an eye out for the Viper buyer.

My wife drives a Mercedes with more techno gadgetry than known to man kind. It's fun some days and a pain in the a** on others. Tries to outthink you.

The Viper has always been about huge HP in a simplistic, form. If it groans, you can pretty easily diagnose the problem. If you want to mod it, you can. Owners like it that way. DCX, Please bring us more. More of the same radical styling and performance. The $$ is waiting.

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Performance sells and I hope Dodge/DC/SRT stay in the game.

Simply put I would not buy a Slug mobile. I am about to dump our two slowest rides a S500 and Jeep GC Overland ** for an S55AMG and SRT8 Jeep. Then our slowest vehicle will be the Ram SRT10 QC.

As long as SRT builds performance cars I will buy them. Love my SRT10 and love my Gen II's.

When the GEN IV Viper arrives, I hope to make room for one of them as well.

There is no room at the Inn for a GM(Z06) or Ford(GT).

DC has earned my brand loyalty.

 

[Mopar426]

Gimme a break, GM and Ford were also in the tank from a performance perspective for the same period. All caused by insurance and emissions regulations that hurt all performance cars. Your beloved Corvette was a 200hp loser for most of that period and did Corvette did not build anything worth buying until the 1990 ZR1. Which Viper had eclipsed by 92. And I would remind you that Dieter Zetche sp? who was CEO of Chrysler during the turnaround period is also CEO of EVERYTHING Mercedes does and I'm sure he has not forgotten where he came from, indeed he was always a huge Viper and SRT supporter, none of the current SRT models would have been built without his support. So your comment about a wrench in the cogs is nuts, the Germans supported all the performance car development

I did NOT say GM and Ford built anything great as well, my point was they stayed in the game. True the 198X Vette/Mustang/Trans Am was no beast on the road but the manufactor kept the car in production unlike killing it like Mopar did w/ the Charger,Cuda, Challenger, Super Bee,etc.

Lee you can disagree, but if you don't think DC would Kill the Viper line before putting a burden on Mercedes or that Dodge takes priority over Mercedes Benz you're nuts. While he maybe the current CEO, don't forget who signs his paycheck. Lutz was the major supporter of the Viper and look where he's at now. Loyality is one thing but business is business....

I seriously hope DC continues with the Viper's development no doubt.

 

[SnakeCharmer99]

Let's not forget DC's motto for the Viper styling and performance at an affordable price. With all things considered can DC make a high Hp Viper right out of the box? Absolutely! They have more resources and technology than any after market co. But it boils down to can they make it and still make a profit? I think if they were to venture in to the 600Hp plus range, the bottom line cost for the car to the public would push it out of most who currently own and new owners to come. Classic examples are Ferrari and Saleen, big ticket items for that level of performance. Or how about Ford's GT? Why do you think they stopped production? Lack of sales possibly? Or no one really wanted to shell out close to $200k for a Ford? Just my 02. Flame away gents.

 

[Viper X]

An interesting read.

For some of you above who doubt the potential of the Viper engine platform to make power, read on.

Yes, a N/A Gen II engine can make 650 reliable flywheel hp with simple bolt on parts and some tuning. I have one.

Yes, a Gen III engine can make 700 reliable flywheel hp with simple bolt on parts and some tuning, at only 9.2 to 1 compression ratio. I have one.

When you add some boost, getting over 1000 hp isn't too hard either.

IMHO, the intake (gen III) and heads (all gens) seem to be the limiting factor on these engines.

Dan

 

[VENOMAHOLIC]

Lots of good reading here. IMO, When the Gen IV comes out, the price for the Gen III Coupe will lower to that of the SRT 10 vert like it always should have been.

mit made a great point. The Gen III was not enough to convince him to trade in a Gen II plus $30k especially because he loved his Gen II the way it was. A 650 hp engine and lighter chassis would convince him to trade or at least like ******** Viper nuts buy the Gen IV and keep current Viper. (I never plan on selling mine)

I have seen concerns of liability. There are faster cars out there like the Saleen S7 twin turbo with more than 700 hp. Somehow it met emissions and no lawsiuts yet. (hopefully never)

The problem with the Viper since the beginning was to keep a huge V10 cool enough to be reliable as a daily driver and to meet emissions. High hp and torque has been very easy with the V10 as mentioned before by compression adjustments. I think using titanium in the engine and more use of carbon fibre is the way to go because today that technology is more affordable than in the past. Price will as usual be a huge issue but keeping it price competitive with the Z06 and Porsche 911 turbo is critical.

DC is currently riding a wave of success and killing the Viper that is an "icon" of the company would hurt the perception of stockholders. The Viper concept car was never intended to impress the European market but was intended to revive the glory days of the wins at LeMans in the 60's by America. The current success lets them afford to make the Gen IV Viper everything it needs to be to be king of the hill of the NA supercars while still holding true to the spirit of the 1989 concept car. I highly recommend DC revisits LeMans with a Viper that stays true to it's American heritage. Trying to please the European market too will ruin it.

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

I heard from a very reliable source that in Sept. at VOI9 (which I will be attending), DC will introduce their Coupe with the NEW 650HP engine that will be available in the new models.

With that being said, what do you think all these guys that just bought the Coupes do? As of now, should DC do that, having a current Coupe will be like bringing a knife to a gun fight.

I was thinking about buying the new Coupe to match my Blue and White, but not anymore. I am waiting for the 650 beast at VOI.

I will be there too and DC will need something close to this to keep up with the new awesome ZO6. What are they going to crush this year in the back parking lot for us to see on the big screen? Camaro?

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Or how about Ford's GT? Why do you think they stopped production? Lack of sales possibly? Or no one really wanted to shell out close to $200k for a Ford? Just my 02. Flame away gents.

hmmm.. might want to check your facts. Originally the car had only been slated for 2000 units, then Ford saw they were selling like hot cakes and upped that number to roughly 4000 units(but also said they were stopping production in Aug of 2006 (while they were still hot sellers), they even upped the sticker price 10k for the same car, with not a single change to the car, and are getting the money. Something like 40% of the Ford GT owners on fordgtforum.com are previous or current viper owners. I disslike ford as much as the next guy, but lets not [******] the reality that people will pay close to 200k for an american sports car. Its happening, its been proven, and I would do it too if it kicked the $hit out of the europeans $250-300k+ cars.

Dodge step up, and I will be on my 3rd New Viper purchase!!
Jon