IL VCA chapter parade lap the NASCAR race in Chicago

[Forged Horsemen]

The IL VCA is going to have a parade lap at the July 15 NASCAR race in Joliet I heard from a good source. And I believe they are looking for participants who want to do a parade lap before the race. I don't they have let everybody know yet. But if you haven't been informed or have been ask anyway at the next VCA meeting at Fudruckers this Wed. If you have been asked then get more info then.

 

[BWoodbury]

Missed the meeting. Info please!

 

[Chuck 97 GTS]

Guess you have to know the secret handshake to get invited to that one, huh?

Hey Bob, you didn't miss the meeting - it's this coming Wednesday. No meeting on the 4th of July...

 

[Forged Horsemen]

You hit it right on the nail Chuck. There will be 30 people going to participate with there cars in a parade lap at the NASCAR race in Joliet this weekend.They also get a special roped off parking area for there snakes while they watch the race. I think everybody should have been offered the oportunity. But this I think is not the case since I have not been contacted, and I know other people that haven't either. They should offer some sort of fair level playing field where all dues paying members of the IL. VCA can get the oportunity to participate in these cool events. Maybe people can pull tickets out of a hat and the ones with numbers get to go. This is a club and a select few should not be the only ones to get the special perks. I've been an owner since 95 and a member since 96 and have never been in the higher elite group of the club. Even though I have taken out of my time to help the club spending hours editing videos for the club with a good friend of mine. I didn't mind because he's a good guy and it was for the club. But fair is fair and this is not right. Guess some of us have it and some don't. Come on guys give the little guys in the club a chance also. I know this will cause some of the people in the club to view this as a trouble making accion. But somebody has to stand up and say enough of this preveledged special treatment to a few and forget about everybody else.

 

[Viperrick]

Ralph you have this all wrong. I think you are heading down the wrong direction with this so maybe you should find out the facts before you make any judgements.

 

[BWoodbury]

Ok Rick,

What are the facts here? What is the real story? Can I came? Am I invited? Are you going? Whassup?

 

[Forged Horsemen]

I apologize if I'm wrong. But I guess as a former New Yorker and former cop, I guess I have a problem just taking stuff that I see as unfair and not saying nothing. How can a regular member get the facts when they are not shared? I never got a call being invited like other members did,before the meeting today where maybe now that this info. has been brought out in plane view, it will be shared because I'm making it public to everybody, where it was a hush hush deal before to the regular guy. Rich I have to praise everything you've done for the club. You were a great President. But letting some people know ahead of time when special events are happening and not shareing with other's so they can get an oportunity to enjoy an event is not right. I'm not accusing you of doing this or anything bad for the VCA. But in this case some people were given a heads up on info. before others and were invited and some of us were not. Whether it was done purposely or not, it doesn't look good in the eyes of the membership. Sorry for the comotion, and I know now I'm in real deep you know what with the club. But, I can live with that.

 

[Forged Horsemen]

I thought we had put this issue to rest at the last meeting. The explanation I heard from one of the club officers was a little weak as far as the reason the general membership was not informed about our participation in the parade lap at the inagural NASCAR race in Chicago yesterday. If you read the post I wrote before on this matter you can understand why some of the general membership should be a little disapointed with the aprouch taken by the VCA IL. region on this matter. The reason given after I put this matter out for the public view of the membership was. That they only wanted roadsters for this event. That's funny because there were coupes participating in the parade lap yesterday. This was not supose to happen according to the information conveyed during the meeting last week. Again I'm not trying to make trouble, I'm just standing up for my rights and all the other ladys and gentlemen that compose the general membership of the club to voice our concern on how this matter was handled. And how they forgot us. Everybody should have had a fair oportunity to participate in a great event like this. Everybody should have been called and given a heads up to make a choice to participate or not. Not just a few people. A raffle of some sort should have been aranged. It should've been a level playing field. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, but this does not look good, and it doesn't help the moral of the club or the image. This club is for us to have fun and enjoy our great cars. It's not so just a few can have all the fun 100% of the time and the others can have 50, 70 or maybe if your in the good graces of the officers 85%. Sorry for starting trouble but, I am not going to remain idle and allow this to occur without saying something. Next time give everbody the chance to enjoy the perks please.

 

[Forged Horsemen]

Criteria #:
1) RT10
2) Must be there rain or shine
3) Must allow for sponsor decals to be placed on Viper
4) Must be available for the entire day
5) Must have committed within 24 hours of notice.
This is what the three individuals had to try and accomplish.

Criteria answers#:
1) There were a number of GTS coupes that participated
2) Rain or shine would have been no problem but you have to let people know first so they can make a decision if they want to go rain or shine.
3)Again can't say yes or no to this criteria if we are not informed.
4)If you share and invite people they can tell you if they can be avialable for the whole day.5)Same applys to this criteria. How can you commit to participate if you are not told about it.

No I'm not making false anything here, Steve. Your criteria could have been met only one way. And it's by informing the club as a whole not just a few people. Otherwise the criteria is a mute point. How are you gonna say that only RT/10 Vipers could participate and turn around the day of the event and have GTS coupes in the event. Weather it was done purposely or not it does not look good. I'm not saying it was done with any malice but the end result is, it wasn't fare to let some people know and some not. It should've have been handled with a level playing field attitude. How can I organize anything if I am never offered the oportunity. I offered last year for the club to participate in a cruise night that we were invited too as a club and nobody said anything. I have helped edit videos for the club and only because a friend and not the club asked for my help and never asked for anything in return not even recognition, I don't need it I like cars and like to have fun with them that's enough for me. But I like to be treated on an equal basis as far as event participation. Again I'm not accusing anybody. Only questioning as a club member what happened in this case. No need to get so aggesive towards me personally.

 

[dblankenbaker]

Ralph, you should work with the club's Communications Director, Gary Grubbe, to come up with a way of equitably notifying all members the next time we have a "short notice" event like this.

Maybe a club mailing list is the answer? Maybe a mailing list in combination with a phone list?? Sounds like a project for Gary.

Dave

 

[Steve Ferguson]

Ralph, no one is getting "aggressive". I only stated what was said at the meeting which you failed to include in your post. If you are going to post something, at least put it all out there? Your post is inaccurate, and you know it. All of those issues where explained.

The criteria is what the calls where based on. Once they got the 30 slots filled, there was no reason to continue. This was a time sensitive issue, not a scheduled event. Yes there where 7 GTS coups that came, but those were the last vehicles added. The selection process was very simple, "Get the slots filled ASAP".

As for not being told to put something together? Has anyone ever told not to take the initiative? Put it together and see what comes of it?

 

[Forged Horsemen]

"Yes there where 7 GTS coups that came, but those were the last vehicles added." Yea right!
Citeria #1) RT10
According to your criteria this part of your post is inaccurate.

"All of those issues where explained."
They were explained one way and a totally oposite accion was taken.


"Has anyone ever told you not to take the initiative? Put it together and see what comes of it?"
Nobody has invited me to take it either. How could I put it together? I don't have access to the resources the officers have to make it happen, and if by some miracle I did it would not get past the officers now that I have dared to question some accions taken by the club. So don't try to set me up for a fall here, if it didn't happen when I was on the job in NYC it's not gonna be by you, trust me, LOL! If you want you can give a list of the membership next time and since I'm off during the summer months I can make sure I call everybody and give the regular guys which are realistically the backbone of the club so they can have a chance at enjoying perks like this also. You are gonna be surprised at who's gonna show up. To make it fare I won't go Since I will fill the slots. Everybody gets a fare share. And if it's no GTS coupes we stick to that. If we don't have enough, then we let the mebership know via our best comunication resource which is this site. Believe me we'll fill the slots with RT/10s or coupes if we want to. As long as you keep it fare.

 

[Viperrick]

Ralph I am still really confused with the banter from you on this subject. I think it was made very clear what the club was up against with this event. here are the facts.

I contacted the track in December to find out if we could purchase tickets for the NASCAR event because Dodge was returning to Nascar and it would be nice to have the avid Viper Club members participate. How about a Parade Lap? Might look very impressive.

Responce from the track was that tickets were available but each member would have to buy a 4 race package as that is the only way to get a NASCAR ticket. No guarentee on a Parade Lap.

Ii siad that it was hard enough to get our members to show up for one race as a spectator and four races would never happen. Thanks but no thanks.

Move the clock up to Move the clock up to July 5th. My office recieves a phone call for me from Route 66. They need to speak to me immediately about a special event they need help with. They are informed that I am away on vcation and I will not return untill July 9th. The track then finds a phone number to another club/board member. They make the phone call and give the requirements as follows;

1) Can your club come up with 30 cars (need convertibles) to carry representatives of the race sponcor on a parade lap.
2) We need a responce immediately. Fact is we had 8 hours to come up with a typed list of owners and their guests.
3) The people must agree to be there rain or shine.
4) The cars will need to carry a decal of the sponcor on the car.
5) You will need to be at the track for the entire day and we need you to be there by 7:00 a.m.

In return your members will receive 2 tickets for participating.

Now lets look at how you go about picking 30 participants from a list of 250 club members. You suggested a raffle! What does that give me? Well it gives me 30 names but nothing else. Do I get even 1 RT-10 by going this route? What do I do if they are out of town and they can't get back to me. I guess I wait and put the whole event in jeapordy. What the officers chose to do was to split the phone calls amongst themselves and try to find 10 cars each. There number one priority was to get roadsters. If they were running out of time fill it with whatever they could get. They had to get an immediate commitment and if no one was home than they were to move on down the list. To make it fair, lets get a big crossection of the club meaning Northside, Southside, Westside, downstate and out of state members so no one could say that we were showing any favoritism (obveously it looks like you can never satisfy everyone or I wouldn't be wasting my time writing this).

I feel that those who took on this endevoure did a terrific job. If you feel otherwise than...too bad. You know nothing of what it takes to organize these events. Last year you told me about the Crystal Lake Show. This was an event you liked to participate in (you did organized it)and you wondered if other would like to join you. I took your suggestion and sent out a letter covering that event and others which were scheduled for the summer. I remember talking with Gary Grube about it and was disappointed to hear that it was a very low turn out. I do not remember if it was weather related or just a little too far away for most of the membership? Maybe it is just something they did not want to do. Regardless.

Back to the point of this note. Are you sure you weren't called? Maybe you were but no one picked up the phone. Maybe you blew it! Oh well, it happens. Than again, what is the chance that you were called....about 1 in 250. Better odds than the lotto but not necessarily a sure thing. By the way I know that David Blankenbaker was called, but since they could never get through to him (phone always busy)they moved on to the next name.

 

[Viperrick]

I am pretty sure the club will be having elections next year as the bylaws require it every two years. Here is a perfect opportunity to show your enthusiasm for the club and share your knowledge on how the club is to be run. I feel every club member should have an opportunity to shape and guide the organization he/she belongs to.
Any preferance for a specific position, or can I nominate you for any which is available. Now lets not hear any excuses on how busy you are. Since, it is your right make sure that all club members get a fair shake, I feel it is your duty to serve that membership as an officer. Steve, David do I hear a second to my motion?

 

[Forged Horsemen]

How can I have an opportunity to show support? When a member voices his concern about a matter, the powers that be in the club respond with such diplomacy. Refering to my opinion as banter. For example, a national VCA person responds to a club member:"If you feel otherwise than...too bad. You know nothing of what it takes to organize these events." If I know nothing about what it takes it's because I have never been offered the oportunity to help. Yes, I'm sure I wasn't called to participate in the parade lap. It would be like hitting the lotto for me. But I have a better chance at that, than being called or seeing a VCA IL offcers number on my caller ID. I would prefer the lotto though, LOL!
"Any preferance for a specific position, or can I nominate you for any which is available. Now lets not hear any excuses on how busy you are. Since, it is your right make sure that all club members get a fair shake, I feel it is your duty to serve that membership as an officer." Why all of a sudden you want me as an officer? Funny I've been in the club since 1996 and nobody has nominated me for anything, not even for the event this weekend. But now the member who dared to speak out for his rights has to be shown a lesson. Right? Down the road I would consider being an officer, but I feel that I need to start out by helping first. Like I said I can start learning by making all the calls for the next event of this nature. I would gladly do it. Like I said in my first post you were a great Pres. But you can't be talking down to people just because a question about how something was handled comes up. Diplomacy is a leaders greatest power. But you knew that. Right?

 

[Viperrick]

That is why I always try to be diplomatic. Remember last year when the whole issue of forged vs cast pistons? How many failures have you heard about regarding pistons? Do you remember what I wrote? Now looking back at it 18 months later do you feel your assessment was correct. Did the Vipers performance and reliability suffer? No! But lets get back to the issue at hand.

Instead of waiting to be asked to help with something don't you think it be better to offer? I can't say how many times (over the seven years I have been associated with the local club)I have asked for volunteers to help out with the little things it takes to run an event (timing/scoring/registration etc). I have made pleas both verbally and in writing. I have sent out questionaires to find out what people want of their club, or if they would like to get involved with it. The responce is always the same.....silence, nada, nil. Luckly, there are those that offer at the event, when they see that no one has stepped forward. I can't tell you how much it is appreciated. But why must any member who organizes an event plead for help? Are we not all part of the same organization? Are we not all benefiting from the organization? Last year i know that I asked for members to step forward to fill board positions which woulod be vacated and again I went searching when no one offered.

Don't wait to be asked, take the initiative. There is plenty of work to be done. As Steve wrote earlier, this is a perfect opportunity to begin organizing next years outing. Do you want contact names? Well the easiest way is to start calling around now and asking questions. This event didn't come about because they new about our club it came about because they remembered that I called them months ago.

 

[Chuck 97 GTS]

Did we at least get some good footage of the event? Was it on TV?

I couldn't have gone because of the criteria. For those of you scoring at home please follow along...

1) RT10 (d*mn, shot down like a spy plane over Russia)
2) Must be there rain or shine (yea right, Bubbleboy wouldn't drive his car if there was rain anywhere within 3 states)
3) Must allow for sponsor decals to be placed on Viper (file that under NEVER)
4) Must be available for the entire day (I dunno, watching people run over cones the previous day wore me out)
5) Must have committed within 24 hours of notice (I have a fear of commitment)

 

[Viperrick]

After all the greif, I don't know if we got any real good coverage. I stayed up to watch the extended sports coverage on NBC since they promised to cover the Tropicana 400 but I fell asleep (I was up until 1:00 am. cleaning up the car, bolting on side sills and street tires after the autocross and then had to be up at 5:00 a.m. to get to Joliet by 7:00). I heard from a club member that they mentioned the Illinois Viper Club but nothing was shown of our group. Any confirmation on that? I think someone also said that they saw like a 2 second shot of us exiting the track (way in the backround).

The benefit is that I strapped on a Video recorder to my rollbar camera mount so we have some footage. Quality wise I don't have a clue what it's like.

Having given you a little idea of what is was like (hot, no food or drinks), I can't believe that with Tropicana being the sponcor (they are owned by Pepsi) we didn't even get offered some OJ or Pepsi products to wet our lips. For gods sakes we had to pay $4.50 for a bottle of Pepsi.

 

[Viperrick]

Chuck you were tired from driving the go-kart. Ooops, maybe I shouldn't have mentioned it because I didn't let everyone use the go-kart. Actually I should have written a letter to the entire membership letting them know that a go kart would be at the autocross and we would hold a special raffle to assign the driving order and.....I can't wait for the ramifications of this ex-executive blunder.

 

[Viperrick]

Ralph,
If you really want to help the club than will you accept the responcibility to help finalize the planning and the promotion of the cruise to Sugar Grove Raceway in the end of September. We lost our cruise director earlier this year and I am still trying to fill the spot with volounteer directors for each event. This event is a perfect springboard into a role as a mover and shaker in the upper management level of the club. You have the entire summer off so it should be a piece of cake. If you accept I will forward you the contact name and you can run with the ball. We have a small deposit securing the facility and we will have a great time go-kart racing at this 1/2 mile road course track in racing karts. These look serious. Not you run of the mill Wisconsin Dells type of kiddie kart.

 

[dblankenbaker]

Ralph,

Very few people have contributed more to the club than I have. When we needed to create/compile the electronic version of the membership database 5 years ago, I was the person who set it up. I still support it to this day. I was drafted by Jay Herbert and Steve Ferguson to create the IL VCA website many, many years ago. And very few have contributed as much time and $$$ to club racing events as I have. I consider myself to be in the "higher elite group of the club" that you mention, by virtue of the fact that I have never said "no" when asked to contribute.

Oh, and I was one of the few Viper owners in our club who paid $800 for the Daytona Nascar package in February. You would think all these things would put me close to the top of the list for Joliet, wouldn't you???

Unfortunately (for me), there WAS a raffle of sorts and spaces were delegated fairly. They went down the phone list and called all members (at least once) until they had commitments for 30 Viper owners. As mentioned at the club meeting, they were looking for primarily roadsters but they were also calling GTS owners.

No, I didn't "win" the raffle. I was told that my line was busy and they went on to the next person on the list. But do you want to know the complete irony?? They had no problem getting in touch with me a few days later when they needed a source for the Tropicana decals used on the Vipers.

I was able to attend the race Sunday only by virtue of being at the club autocross the day before, and finagling a ride as the guest of Dan from Barrington.

Even with as active as I am in the club, about half the Vipers and owners at the event were cars/people I didn't recognize. Many were from out of state. One couple I hadn't seen in 5 years! So while this event maybe didn't reward people for club participation, it was very good at including all, and possibly has helped to get some dormant owners back involved with the club. We'll see...

Dave

 

[Steve Ferguson]

Ralph, why don't you finish the story. I sat there as the explanation was given, as you also did. You might want to share the facts before you start making false accusations.

Criteria #:
1) RT10
2) Must be there rain or shine
3) Must allow for sponsor decals to be placed on Viper
4) Must be available for the entire day
5) Must have committed within 24 hours of notice.
This is what the three individuals had to try and accomplish.

That was what was ACTUALLY said at the meeting. It was also stated that the track did not call the President of the Illinois VCA, but rather another board member (Rich was out of town). Therefore calls went out to those they new from all the diverse areas of our large region. This was not a planned event, but rather a requested one. And do to that fact, the only way to fill the request was to look where the three people, who had little time to do so, could actually find participants.

If this is something you feel so passionate about, then please go and make the arrangements for next year. If that is too much for you to do then at least tell what really happened.

 

[Steve Ferguson]

Ralph, if you had a problem (which you obviously do) why did you not bring it up at the meeting? Sitting there and then running home and posting incorrect information seems like the best way to resolve something?

You sat through that meeting and never brought up a question or comment. So why is it that suddenly it is a problem once you leave?

Respect is a two way street.

 

[Forged Horsemen]

Steve;When I was at the meeting I didn't bring the issue up due to the fact that the answer to my questions made sense to a degree. No GTSs only RT/10s. Since I own a GTS I understud why I wasn't called. Until I found out there were GTSs participating in the event anyway. That's why I said in my first post yesterday that I had put the matter to rest from that moment on. Read and understand before you respond. My fingers are getting tired. As far as respect,I'm not trying to be smart here but I don't need your respect. I'll let you know when you've gone to far and we can take it from there, OK?

 

[dblankenbaker]

Chuck, #6 would have given you heart failure:

6) All participants will be rewarded with a gritty layer of fine dirt on their Viper.

 

[Forged Horsemen]

I think it's best to walk before you are asked to run. I would be more than happy to help out with an event, but it's premature to ask me to coordinate an entire event. Perhaps, you have to ask yourself why no one volunteers to help? Seems as if you have a problem with the membership, and not just me. Obviously, some club members are possibly feeling the way that I do. It's time to own up that this event was not handled the fairest way possible. When members feel that they are not all treated fairly, why should they be volunteering? Sorry about them not offering you pop at the event, doesnt' it feel bad to be ignored? Now you know how I feel to a much lesser degree.

As far as last years piston reliability question. There was a reliabilty issue when the first cars were burning oil like boilers, and the matter was corrected by mother Mopar, hats off to them they always come thru. And now I will admit that the new pistons are great contributing to more HP via a tad more compression better ring to cylinder sealing and less reciprocating weight.

 

[Chuck 97 GTS]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dblankenbaker:
Chuck, #6 would have given you heart failure:

6) All participants will be rewarded with a gritty layer of fine dirt on their Viper.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it was regular dirt that would be ok. But GRITTY dirt, that would have really gotten my knickers in a twist!

 

[Chuck 97 GTS]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Viperrick:


Chuck you were tired from driving the go-kart.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're right, I think THAT was why I was so tired! But most of my energy was spent just prying it away from the kids...

That go-kart was a blast, thanks for bringing it out. I can't wait to drive those racing karts!

 

[Viperrick]

Ralph, there are a couple of things that need to be cleared up.

1) The problem with cars burning oil was never due to a problem with the pistons but in fact with the sleeves which were being pressed into the block. So you should realize that the pistons were NEVER an issue. Strike one!

2) I do not have a problem with any other member (that i know of). You are the only one that I have ever had to address publically and privately via the web site and or through e-mails. Honest no one else has ever complained to me directly.
Strike two!

3) Why not take me up on my offer to help? You said that you would not feel comfortable taking on a board position until you had some experiance with planning an event. I want to give you your big shot at what I think will be a great event with a good turnout. Some of the leg work is already done so it really is a perfect opportunity. I am not trying to show you up or set you up. Try it!

At one point you refered to being rewarded with a chance to participate at the event this week. In my upbringing we were rewarded after we did something which deserved a reward. We did not get something based on the promise of future good deeds. Maybe I have it all screwed up but I believe it was the right way.

 

[Forged Horsemen]

Now your showing me how mature you really are. Strike one? Comon Rick. The sleeves were made specifically for those pistons in a special material to help with friction. So, when they switched pistons they also went to new sleeves. Soooooooooooo,they experienced problems when they went to the new piston set up. Burning oil and in some cases engines had to be sent back to be repaired due to the new pistons. Not sealing well with the new sleeves.