Important Message For Roe Supercharger Owners

[SUN RA KAT]

I am still waiting for my MSD box from Sean to get rid of my pre-detonation problem. (I thought my mods would enable me not to have pinging, so I had Sean ship me my supercharger before the MSD box was available. But, this wasn't the case - I had substantial pinging.)

In the meantime I played with the VEC1 in the hopes that it would get rid of enough ping to drive my Viper, but all I got was an engine check code within 30 seconds. Sean told me how to get rid of the code and I waited 10 minutes to reconnect the plug in wire modules to the PCM. It threw a code again, but this time I let it warm up to normal operating temperature and then I turned off the engine and disconnected the plug in wiring modules to the PCM for 45 minutes.

I reconnected the wiring plug in modules and on the 2nd try it started up and no check engine code was thrown.

Now here's the good news - over 70% of my ping has gone away and I can now drive my Viper again. Sean says the MSD boxes should get to him this week and be shipped to us Roe Supercharger owners right away to get rid of all the ping.

I advise all the Roe Supercharger owners to disconnect the 3 plug in wiring modules on the later model Vipers for 45 minutes to cause the PCM to relearn how to drive again. I think this will make it easier for the MSD box to get rid of all traces of ping without adjusting it so much that it cuts down power.

For older Gen II Vipers, I think just disconnecting the battery terminal for 45 minutes will do the same thing.

I'm trying to call Sean, but his phone is busy right now. I'll contact him somehow (e-mail) and tell him.

 

[Gerald]

Get that pinging RESOLVED and don't drive it or let it ping..
I just had a friend with a 2002 Mustang. He installed a supercharger kit, chip, etc, etc. He noticed very slight detonation when testing. He took it out on the road and now he has 7 cylinders.... Good Luck and wait for that box..

Gerald

 

[GASDOC]

Have you tried some octane booster or mixing in some high octane race fuel to get rid of the ping until the MSD box gets there?

 

[SUN RA KAT]

I have 1/2 tank 93 octane and 1/2 tank 94 octane. The ping now has to be looked for by pressing the snake pedal down pretty far, so it doesn't occur in normal driving. The MSD box should be getting to Sean and then me in a few days - it just won't have to work so hard to get rid of the ping - maybe a 1 setting instead of a 2 setting on the MSD retard control. At any rate, things have improved a lot by letting the PCM be disconnected for 45 minutes and now my battery is fully recharged.

And the best news yet - it's raining and my Viper is parked outside in the rain, so when I drive it in the garage and towell dry it all the dust it had from sitting in the garage for the past almost 2 weeks will be gone.

 

[Sean Roe]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gerald:
Get that pinging RESOLVED and don't drive it or let it ping..
I just had a friend with a 2002 Mustang. He installed a supercharger kit, chip, etc, etc. He noticed very slight detonation when testing. He took it out on the road and now he has 7 cylinders.... Good Luck and wait for that box..

Gerald
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One thing that has really surprised me since getting into superchargers is just how many aftermarket kits, beyond just Vipers, have the same types of issues. There's a lot of info out there on the internet. It seems that nobody is immune to the problems associated in dealing with production car variables and the stock OBDII systems. Even if you get enough timing retard, there are other driveability issues that could pop up, such as the PCM adjusting the injector pulsewidth based on what it thinks is a smaller injector, even though it's now 50% larger.

I'm really hopeful that what we're working on overseas works out as anticipated. If it does, it's something that will take Viper tuning to a new level .... direct control of the injectors and / or coils by means of drivers, instead of altering signals going into the PCM (this affects the barometric pressure reading, manifold air pressure reading, etc. in order to adjust the load calibration of the PCM, affecting fuel and timing maps). This is darn near as good as being able to get into the factory PCM to reprogram it. Altering signals into the PCM is an option which works and has its place, but you're still limited to the factory pre-programmed maps, which makes it less than optimum for heavy modifications. I leave for Stockholm in about 2 weeks and will report in as the project progresses.

Ken,
Glad to hear from you today that your car is running better again. You're on the next day air list to get one of the 35 MSD boxes we have coming in. It will take care of your ping as it has on the other 11 cars that already have it. As others have said before, just take it easy on the car until then.


Sean


<FONT COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Sean Roe on 11-22-2002 at 06:37 AM</font>

 

[RedGTS]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>This is darn near as good as being able to get into the factory PCM to reprogram it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sean, I had a conversation with a tuner today who says he can do just that. Interesting.

 

[Toby]

Ken,

Park it until you can get the ping to go away. It's not worth it.

Besides tomorrow the streets will be a mess with salt and slushy snow.

 

[Sean Roe]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedGTS:
Sean, I had a conversation with a tuner today who says he can do just that. Interesting.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ronnie,

Do you mean reflash the Viper PCM with a different set of fuel and timing curves?
I looked into a few options in that regard. It seemed that you'd have to be part of DCX to do it for all model years as they're constantly changing the addresses in the program.
Give me a call.

Sean

 

[SUN RA KAT]

I did talk with Sean after I made the above post and he said the MSD boxes should be sent out probably Friday when they come in.

I parked my Viper on my driveway late afternoon after I got home from driving it with no engine check light coming on. It later rained real hard, washing the dust off of my Viper from being a Garage Queen for almost two weeks. After the rain stopped, I gently towel dried my Viper and started it up to pull it into my garage until the MSD box gets here next week.

It promptly threw an engine check light.

I suspect that cooling down for several hours and the air temperature dropping from the high 40s to the low 30s is what caused the engine check light to come on. I'll warm it up and then disconnect the plug in wiring to the PCM for 45 minutes before driving to my Viper Tech's house when the MSD box comes in.

I'm going to see if turning the key off & on will have the engine check light blink on & off to give me a code number.

 

[utahviper]

Can you guys fill up with 100 octane until you get the MSD boxes? Or even mix 100 octane with 94 octane. You can get 100 octane at the pump here, it does cost about $2.29 per gallon but that probably would take care of your knocking problem. Having said that you can't get 100 octane at every gas station but I can get it at about 5 different places within 10 miles. Good luck!

 

[KenH]

Kenny,
I don't think you can retrieve the codes using the key trick on the newer models. I know it didn't work on my '01 and I ended up buying an ODBII code reader to read and reset the MIL light.

To Chuck's point, some errors do have to be detected a number of times before the MIL light is illuminated. I know O2 sensor codes are like this. With a code reader you can see that there are errors pending, but the light isn't lit until the car goes through enough heat/cold cycles which meet the requirements for doing the test. I don't know if that applies to all error conditions or not though.

--- Ken

 

[SUN RA KAT]

utahviper -

I haven't seen anything better than 94 octane around here in quite a while, but I haven't looked for it either. I plan on getting this baby to run great with 93 octane with Sean and the MSD's help.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
KenH -

My Viper is too sophisticated to give up its secrets about the code with only a few turns of the key. I'll have my Viper Tech get the code before we put in the MSD box.

 

[Sean Roe]

The way an OBDII computer turns on the MIL varies by code. Some codes turn on the light immediately, such as intake air temperature or MAP sensor, while others will require more than one "hit" and show as pending.

Kenny,
Do yourself a favor and get a code reader. They make life a lot easier since you don't have to go to the dealer / tech to see what's causing it and can clear it yourself in a matter of minutes. There might be a loose connection from the installation that's turning on the light. It will probably come back until it's corrected.

Sean

 

[SUN RA KAT]

Sean -

I've ordered the Equus 3100 OBD II reader from Summit Racing. The part was $125.39 and the shipping/handling charges brought the price up to $140.55. I'll feed you the codes and you can help me bring my baby back to full supercharged health.

 

[Chuck 97 GTS]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the PCM have to detect an error condition during multiple run sessions in order to turn on the MIL? Until this threshold is met they are Pending DTC's then they become Stored DTC's when the MIL is turned on. If this is indeed true I am speculating that maybe the error condition was present the whole time, yet hadn't met the threshold to turn on the MIL.

 

[varanus]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by utahviper:
Can you guys fill up with 100 octane until you get the MSD boxes? Or even mix 100 octane with 94 octane. You can get 100 octane at the pump here, it does cost about $2.29 per gallon but that probably would take care of your knocking problem. Having said that you can't get 100 octane at every gas station but I can get it at about 5 different places within 10 miles. Good luck!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

100 octane is $4.19 a gallon and the closest station is 35 miles. You are lucky indeed. I live in a very population dense area too, the San francisco-San Jose area

 

[SUN RA KAT]

I want to set up my Viper for the gas that's easily available - 93 octane since it's an almost daily driver usually. That's why I didn't try to find any gas other than the 94 octane that's readily available at Sunoco in Ohio. There are a few stations that have 92 octane in Ohio, but I usually go to BP where 93 octane is what's available.

My MSD box is being shipped to me this Monday and I'm pretty confident that it will solve all of my ping problems. I should be getting the Equus 3100 code reader by early the week thereafter and then I will be sure of the cause if my Viper throws a code again.

Since starting it when the engine is cold in cold weather - it starts without throwing a code when the engine is cold in cool weather - seems to be the cause of throwing a code, I'll be taking my Viper out of the garage when Ohio gets real cold weather and letting it cool down to air temperature for several hours and then starting it again to see if I have it adjusted correctly so no code is thrown. If I have any problems, Sean is just a phone call away & he really takes his time to help his callers. (Just one of the reasons why Sean's reputation is so great.)