inexpensive power upgrades?

[tomob1]

The SCT still has to have a tune installed..

i purchased the package from a member here. it comes with 2 tunes.
i opted out on the 94 ethanol and valet programs and got the basic performance and cat delete tunes.
i checked on the prices individually and the &695 package is a great deal, IMHO.
i'll post a link to the members store, if that's allowed here.
still looking for someone to fabricate the cat delete pipes for me.
tom

 

[PootyP]

Ok two questions because i also have an 04 and at my peak for bolt ons.

an under drive pulley really makes that much of a diff, anyone with a gen 3 done this?

stock 3.07 gears for 3.55 or 3.73 will this just make me accel faster but what will it do at like the 120 range will it be slower bc i know my top speed will drop righ?

Thanks for all the help and any answers....

I really might have to try an underdrive if you can really get as much from it as headers almost

 

[Canyon707]

Let me know how you make out with everything and what mods you decide to go with. My buget is just like yours and ive been tossing around all the same ideas in my head for awhile. I just dont know what the best bang for the buck is.

Dosen't seem like 50 Hp but, just my guess.

 

[Canyon707]

Ok two questions because i also have an 04 and at my peak for bolt ons.

an under drive pulley really makes that much of a diff, anyone with a gen 3 done this?

stock 3.07 gears for 3.55 or 3.73 will this just make me accel faster but what will it do at like the 120 range will it be slower bc i know my top speed will drop righ?

Thanks for all the help and any answers....

I really might have to try an underdrive if you can really get as much from it as headers almost

Radar is still faster

 

[tomob1]

The SCT still has to have a tune installed...at that price, I'm sure you're only getting the handheld, without a tune. So factor in quite a bit more money for a local tune on the dyno, or go with a vendor here on the forum for a mail order tune
__________________

i tried to reply to this earlier, but it never posted....
antway, the package includes choice of 2 tunes. i opted to get a cat delete tune in place of the 94 ethanol tune. other options included a valet tune.
that's why i thought it was a great price. theindividual components, bought separately, with 2 tunes is about $1000.
i bought from a member/vendor here who was great to deal with.
i'll post a link here, if that's allowed, or email me and i'll get you the contact info.
i think that inexpensive, performance, quality and viper CAN go together.
the viper may be exotic to some, but it's still an internal combustion car, that is only 30% efficient.
simple improvements can yield good results.
jmho
tom

 

[tomob1]

i tried to reply to this earlier, but it never posted....

sorry, must have been a computer glitch on my end. i'm using a mac.
no virus worries, but has other issues.
as far as weather 50 hp can be gained;
lets say i get 1/2 of the KN claim, that's 7 hp
the sct tune is worth 20=30 hp, right?
the underdrive should be good for at least 5, more likley 8hp.
and i get 10-15 with the cat delete (20hp has been quoted)
i think 50 hp is doable and i don't alter the gear ratios, yet, should show quicker times 0-60 and 1/4 mile.
tom

 

[Canyon707]

Tom take it to the track and try it out. I have a DC Performance tune computer tune that is. A K&N filter and Corsa, a a ported intake with a BBK throttle body. 1.7 seconds 60' 11.7 @118 mph 1/4 mile

 

[AbsolutHank]

sorry, must have been a computer glitch on my end. i'm using a mac.
no virus worries, but has other issues.
as far as weather 50 hp can be gained;
lets say i get 1/2 of the KN claim, that's 7 hp
the sct tune is worth 20=30 hp, right?
the underdrive should be good for at least 5, more likley 8hp.
and i get 10-15 with the cat delete (20hp has been quoted)
i think 50 hp is doable and i don't alter the gear ratios, yet, should show quicker times 0-60 and 1/4 mile.
tom

I think those numbers are a stretch...dyno data can certainly be modified, but I think 35rwhp is about all you'll get with those mods

 

[Venomiss]

Here is a link to all the suppliers and contact information here:

http://forums.viperclub.org/new-products-supplier-specials-group-buys-vendor-reviews/

Please consider joining the VCA here if you are in the states here:

https://www.viperclub.org/join/

 

[tomob1]

.dyno data can certainly be modified, but I think 35rwhp is about all you'll get with those mods

i wouldn't be unhappy with that. that's 50 at the flywheel, right?

tom

 

[Twister]

HMMMMM....

Im putting together a dyno video right now with my differant mods and results.

Ive put on around 50 rwhp from bolt ons. Still dont have headers/throttle body or manifold.

I think with good tuneing and every single last bolt on mod you can take a 445 rwhp stock gen3 to 515 rwhp, A 40 rwhp gain. Thats on an honest dyno.

Yes it will likely cost you over 10K to acomplish this. But you do it piece by piece over time and your car will still drive like stock. Superchargers/spray/TT's ect despite was numerous people claim can and sometimes will destroy your engine.

My supercharged nsx engine failed as well as my supercharged camaro engine. Simple bolt ons and heads and cam for this owner on the Viper

 

[Toma]

I am very careful during dyno testing before and after results. I make sure that things like Aircharge temp, intake manifold, oil temperature, oil pan temperatrue, and coolant temps are as close to same test to test as possible.

I also try and do all testing within a short time span. I realize there is SAE correction, and it does work, but better in my mind to just keep correction factors as close to the same as possible.

I also do the tests (when possible), A-B-A. Meaning dyno it (A), make the mod and re dyno it (B), then go back to previous and dyno again (A). The gain has to pass this test to be accurate in my mind.

Tunes are TYPICALLY worth 30 pound feet and 12 rwhp. As Roe advertises it, it is accurate. SCT XCalibrator Custom PCM Flash Device, 03-06 Viper SRT-10 - Engine Management and Tuning - Roe Racing

quoted from their site

The following performance gains were recorded on our in-house dyno using 93 octane fuel : Rear Wheel HP / Rear Wheel Torque gains @ RPM are; 5 HP / 13 TQ @ 2,000 RPM, 6 HP / 13 TQ @ 2,500 RPM, 7 HP / 14 TQ @ 3,000 RPM, 20 HP / 30 TQ @ 3,500 RPM, 25 HP / 31 TQ @ 4,000 RPM, 30 HP / 35 TQ @ 4,500 RPM, 25 HP / 26 TQ @ 5,000 RPM, 12 HP / 11 TQ @ 5,500 RPM. These tunes were carefully created and tested to allow maximum performance without engine pinging.

So over PEAK engine hp, you will typically see 9-18 DEPENDING on other mods. For instance, the HP gain way up top is a result of leaning out the AF ratio, not so much timing changes. So, if you have already freed up the exhaust, the car will ALREADY be leaner, so you will gain less with further leaning out, so you may get closer to the bottom end of that range.

Pulley.... so far, everyone that has accurately tested the pulleys I make has picked up a full mph in the quarter. They are difficult to dyno test, as most dynos have some sort of inertia compensation, and their performance gain really depends on the acceleration rate (rate of change of rpm) during runs. For instance, you gain more in second gear than in fourth.

 

[DMan]

20hp from cat delete sounds ambitious. When I was shopping my exhaust mods, I was told, by several guys that sell them, like Corsa, that cat delete was good on the dyno for about 3-6hp. Wasn't worth the money, work, and emissions hassel to me. I think most guys delete cats due to coolling the car and sound. But that was a few yrs ago I got this vendor direct info.

On gearing, slow you down at 120mph, nah, this isn't an Accord. ;-) Yes, you'll not reach 193mph top end anymore, but how often are going over 175mph-180mph anyway? I have 3.07s and I only hit 180mph+ a couple times a day max (ok, not really), if I had the $, the 3.55s would be my next mod.

But the 3.07s do make this car very easy to drive, I find the Viper to be one of the easiest to launch & handle down the strip, due to the taller gears. That'll get trickier with shorter gearing.

I've done under-drive pulley's on other cars, but not the viper, my thought would be to just make sure they say there's no negative impact on cooling ... the last thing you need is something to reduce cooling.

Good luck & have fun, post updates.

 

[cfiiman]

Somehow - Inexpensive upgrade and Viper don't go together .

That is what I was thinking, kind of an oxy ***** really I just paid 20 for a special "snake" key that was originally 150 or some crazy number for freakin plastic ! That was a good deal though b/c normally they are 50.00, and even though I feel abused when making purchases like this, it does look cool

 

[cubican]

I have done most of the mods listed, and for HP gain the SCT with a good dyno tune is a must, I gain 45 HP just on the dyno tune. Can tunes are ok but there is much more left on the table. Gears is another must I whent with 3:55 but if I had to do it over 3:73 will be my choice.

 

[stranger355]

Just to throw another perspective out there, I would add that 500hp is enough as it is. If anything the driver is the weakest link. If you want an inexpensive and reliable upgrade consider spending your money on high performance driving classes, track days, or time at the strip.

 

[Toma]

I have done most of the mods listed, and for HP gain the SCT with a good dyno tune is a must, I gain 45 HP just on the dyno tune. Can tunes are ok but there is much more left on the table.

I disagree... not "much" more. If the motor is close to stock, or stock, the timing tables are WELL established, the only variable will be the AF ratio. A 'mail order' tune may get it at say 12.4 (versus in the 10's on some stock ones), so with a small adjustment to say 12.8 or 13.2 or..... there maybe a SMALL gain. Most of the gain come from leaning it out from the absurdly rich,as you reach 'optimum', the AF ratio changes hit a point of diminishing returns.

Now, an interesting thing to watch out for on all cars especially the pre knock sensor models is the oil accumulation in the intake manifold from the factory PCV routing. On 2005 and up cars, no big deal, car will retard timing when she knocks due to the oil....

I had a '05 on the dyno where I noticed this, He was making less power than I expected, I re-routed his PCV, pulled the TB, cleaned out the oil in the intake, put her back together and then tuned it, and then it 'looked' like it picked up 40hp lol....

 

[Toma]

Just to throw another perspective out there, I would add that 500hp is enough as it is. If anything the driver is the weakest link. If you want an inexpensive and reliable upgrade consider spending your money on high performance driving classes, track days, or time at the strip.

BLASPHEMY!! lol

Never enough power. There are Zr1's out there now!!!

 

[cubican]

I disagree... not "much" more. If the motor is close to stock, or stock, the timing tables are WELL established, the only variable will be the AF ratio. A 'mail order' tune may get it at say 12.4 (versus in the 10's on some stock ones), so with a small adjustment to say 12.8 or 13.2 or..... there maybe a SMALL gain. Most of the gain come from leaning it out from the absurdly rich,as you reach 'optimum', the AF ratio changes hit a point of diminishing returns.

Now, an interesting thing to watch out for on all cars especially the pre knock sensor models is the oil accumulation in the intake manifold from the factory PCV routing. On 2005 and up cars, no big deal, car will retard timing when she knocks due to the oil....

I had a '05 on the dyno where I noticed this, He was making less power than I expected, I re-routed his PCV, pulled the TB, cleaned out the oil in the intake, put her back together and then tuned it, and then it 'looked' like it picked up 40hp lol....

On the same day and dyno, the can tune gave me 18HP, with the dyno tune 45HP plus the car ran much better.

 

[Toma]

On the same day and dyno, the can tune gave me 18HP, with the dyno tune 45HP plus the car ran much better.

Stock engine?

Are we talking 45 hp at the peak?? As in best of say 450 rwhp at 5700 rpm as a best, and then after the tune, 495 at say 5900 as a best?

 

[cubican]

Stock engine?

Are we talking 45 hp at the peak?? As in best of say 450 rwhp at 5700 rpm as a best, and then after the tune, 495 at say 5900 as a best?

Let me see if I can find the dyno printouts, I know I had one with the two runs on it.If I can find it I will post it for you.

 

[tomob1]

a lot of interesting stuff here,
but now i'm TOTALLY confused!
tom

 

[eucharistos]

a lot of interesting stuff here,
but now i'm TOTALLY confused!
tom

then, take it from me, this is all you need for 68 rwhp

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[Toma]

We've dyno tuned enough of these cars that we know that to get a 45hp gain at PEAK, on a stock motor just is not gonna happen from tune alone. If that were the case, a typical 440 hp stocker, would JUST need a tune to make almost 500. And we all know that is not the case. The cars need other mods, exhaust, pulleys etc etc to get that high.

Like I said, down low, like 4500 rpm etc, you may see that sort of gain, but peak to peak, no way, no how.

MAYBE if with the stock tune, they let the engine get super hot, then the new tune was turning the fans on sooner, so your power was from cooler engine and tune.

Or the engine was not stock (heads and cam)

or the claimed 40+ hp power increase was in fact in the mid range, and not at the peak....

Who knows. Unless he clarifies, can't be sure.

 

[snakem04]

haha I remember that dumb thing. People use to waste their money on that garbage.
and really think it would work.

then, take it from me, this is all you need for 68 rwhp

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[Twister]

We've dyno tuned enough of these cars that we know that to get a 45hp gain at PEAK, on a stock motor just is not gonna happen from tune alone. If that were the case, a typical 440 hp stocker, would JUST need a tune to make almost 500. And we all know that is not the case. The cars need other mods, exhaust, pulleys etc etc to get that high.

Like I said, down low, like 4500 rpm etc, you may see that sort of gain, but peak to peak, no way, no how.

MAYBE if with the stock tune, they let the engine get super hot, then the new tune was turning the fans on sooner, so your power was from cooler engine and tune.

Or the engine was not stock (heads and cam)

or the claimed 40+ hp power increase was in fact in the mid range, and not at the peak....

Who knows. Unless he clarifies, can't be sure.

GOTTA RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE WITH YOU

A year or two ago I would hve said you are absolutely correct. But the SCT has really opened doors for the gen3's that were previously locked.

Dragon rider comes to mind. 490 rwhp with a sct tuned on the dyno. cat back exhaust an KN air intake. Minus the KN air intake and exhaust and thats still a 480 rwhp gen3 with just a tune. Minimum of a 30 rwhp gain peak. Likely 35-40 rwhp as most are 440-445 rwhp stock.

Ive seen a few other members on here as well with around 500 rwhp with just intake/headers exhaust and dyno tune.

SCT actually tuned on the dyno and pushed to a 13.2 AFR can work miricals.