Intercooled vs non intercooled SC

[V10 MOJO]

pros and cons. i am under the assumption that non intercooled is more risky? educate me gurus

 

[1TONY1]

Air temp.....less is much better. The more you compress air the more it heats up.

 

[Gerald]

yup..! Cooler air is g g g g g gooooooood! HP! Amongst many other benefits to the engine.

 

[Sean Roe]

Like Tony said, the more you compress the air, the more it heats up. The more it's heated, the less dense it becomes.

When we started on our system development, Autorotor's recommendation was that we could go to 8 psi without a charge cooler (with their twin screw compressor and an internal post-throttle body bypass system) on forged pistons and street fuel. Beyond that, they recommended an aftercooler.

Other than high boost, no real cons in not having a charge cooler. However, cooler air can make more power.

Sean

 

[V10 MOJO]

thnx sean and others. so, to summarize. no worries with out an intercooler as long as you keep the psi to 8. over 8psi, then an intercooler is a good idea.

 

[Daffy Duck Viper]

thnx sean and others. so, to summarize. no worries with out an intercooler as long as you keep the psi to 8. over 8psi, then an intercooler is a good idea.

But if you lived in an area that is hot all the time, would that not change that?
-Daffy

 

[Paolo Castellano]

thnx sean and others. so, to summarize. no worries with out an intercooler as long as you keep the psi to 8. over 8psi, then an intercooler is a good idea.

But if you lived in an area that is hot all the time, would that not change that?
-Daffy

Daffy, I think that a hotter area and all other things being equal would definitely make for more heat soak potential. Heat=less dense air=more favorable conditions for detonation to occur. It all depends on how well the fuel system is calibrated and designed. On some systems, maybe 8 PSI would be fine; on others that are marginally not quite right there could be a problem. I would not feel comfortable without an intercooler for any centrifugal application. The twin screw makes very little heat and is much more efficient and has a great stand alone direct control of all the sensors and therefore for 5-8 PSI probably does not need intercooling. So to summarize, and tell all while telling nothing there is 8PSI and there is 8PSI.

 

[Daffy Duck Viper]

thnx sean and others. so, to summarize. no worries with out an intercooler as long as you keep the psi to 8. over 8psi, then an intercooler is a good idea.

But if you lived in an area that is hot all the time, would that not change that?
-Daffy

Daffy, I think that a hotter area and all other things being equal would definitely make for more heat soak potential. Heat=less dense air=more favorable conditions for detonation to occur. It all depends on how well the fuel system is calibrated and designed. On some systems, maybe 8 PSI would be fine; on others that are marginally not quite right there could be a problem. I would not feel comfortable without an intercooler for any centrifugal application. The twin screw makes very little heat and is much more efficient and has a great stand alone direct control of all the sensors and therefore for 5-8 PSI probably does not need intercooling. So to summarize, and tell all while telling nothing there is 8PSI and there is 8PSI.

Thanks, Paolo. I appreciate your input and further explanation on this matter. I take notes all the darn time on so much stuff that I read on here. It's a feast of knowledge; knowledge that I crave as though it were the air I breathe. *chuckle*
-Daffy

 

[GaryA]

I can tell you that I picked up over 150 rwhp just by adding an intercooler. That has to be the cheapest HP gain ever. The intercooler really takes advantage of the increased boost by taking out one of the negative components of that boost (i.e., heat).

 

[Paolo Castellano]

I can tell you that I picked up over 150 rwhp just by adding an intercooler. That has to be the cheapest HP gain ever. The intercooler really takes advantage of the increased boost by taking out one of the negative components of that boost (i.e., heat).

Hey Gary, Speaking of 150 more RWHP, how soon are you guys going to re-dyno your car with the bigger injectors and bigger intercooler? I am dying to see what you guys get!

 

[Doug Supercharged Vipers]

The act of compressing air increases heat (Boyle's Law.)
The more air is compressed (higher boost) results in a higher increase in temperature and a tendency for possible detonation. An increase in boost pressure will increase peak cylinder pressure, which in turn increases the "end gas" temperature. Higher coolant and inlet temperatures also increase the end gas temperatures. Utilizing the proper air/fuel mixture corresponds with a cooler charge, however, "too rich" will again increase the tendency to detonate. Too rich of an a/f mixture can result in fuel puddling in the exhaust port runner causing burning and tiny explosions while raising EGTs (exhaust gas temperatures). Running fuel mixtures too rich also result in "bore wash" (washing away oil lubricants needed maintain proper engine lubrication).

*Intercooling, or perhaps aftercooling (cooling the charge after the compressor) is not a necessity, but, anytime you can cool charge air temperatures providing a cooler, more oxygenated air flow into the combustion chambers results in a controlled, efficient burn process with less chance of detonation. Intercoolers lowering charge temperatures increase power by transmitting force into torque, in turn, gives us more go-go at the rear wheels . Also, intercoolers (actually aftercoolers) can play the role of "engine filter," in the event of blower failure, the intercooler can retain parts of shrapnel emitted from the ailing blower unit and prevent the pieces from entering the combustion chambers.

But, the options of an intercooler are twofold, horsepower is an exponential number. The profits of higher horsepower equates to greater demands for fuel/spark curves & maps more specific for ECU function, bigger fuel lines, pumps, injectors, and very precise tuning.

In some cases for lower boost applications, the addition of an intercooler could actually become nothing more than a restriction, lowering boost pressures and defeating the purpose of an actual "low boost" supercharger system. So a low boost system may be just what we need without the need for an intercooler.

I hope this information was helpful.

Best Regards,
Doug

 

[GaryA]

[quote
Hey Gary, Speaking of 150 more RWHP, how soon are you guys going to re-dyno your car with the bigger injectors and bigger intercooler? I am dying to see what you guys get!

[/QUOTE]

Jason worked late last night (until 11 pm) putting the final touches on my car. Tomorrow he'll put it on the dyno to tune it and we'll be sure to let you know what it makes.

 

[Daffy Duck Viper]

The act of compressing air increases heat (Boyle's Law.)
The more air is compressed (higher boost) results in a higher increase in temperature and a tendency for possible detonation. An increase in boost pressure will increase peak cylinder pressure, which in turn increases the "end gas" temperature. Higher coolant and inlet temperatures also increase the end gas temperatures. Utilizing the proper air/fuel mixture corresponds with a cooler charge, however, "too rich" will again increase the tendency to detonate. Too rich of an a/f mixture can result in fuel puddling in the exhaust port runner causing burning and tiny explosions while raising EGTs (exhaust gas temperatures). Running fuel mixtures too rich also result in "bore wash" (washing away oil lubricants needed maintain proper engine lubrication).

*Intercooling, or perhaps aftercooling (cooling the charge after the compressor) is not a necessity, but, anytime you can cool charge air temperatures providing a cooler, more oxygenated air flow into the combustion chambers results in a controlled, efficient burn process with less chance of detonation. Intercoolers lowering charge temperatures increase power by transmitting force into torque, in turn, gives us more go-go at the rear wheels . Also, intercoolers (actually aftercoolers) can play the role of "engine filter," in the event of blower failure, the intercooler can retain parts of shrapnel emitted from the ailing blower unit and prevent the pieces from entering the combustion chambers.

But, the options of an intercooler are twofold, horsepower is an exponential number. The profits of higher horsepower equates to greater demands for fuel/spark curves & maps more specific for ECU function, bigger fuel lines, pumps, injectors, and very precise tuning.

In some cases for lower boost applications, the addition of an intercooler could actually become nothing more than a restriction, lowering boost pressures and defeating the purpose of an actual "low boost" supercharger system. So a low boost system may be just what we need without the need for an intercooler.

I hope this information was helpful.

Best Regards,
Doug

Very helpful. Thank you.
Interesting to learn that a good thing, like intercooling, is not always a good thing...if applied in the wrong application. As your example points out. As in all things, more is not always better. One really needs to know what one is doing. This is fascinating stuff.

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