Is '08 the Last Year?

black mamba1

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There is no other reason to be proud of a Chevy product for the backwoods guys, were it not for the Vette,
There is no reason to be proud of the Ford line were it not for the Mustang,
There is really no reason to be proud of the Dodge line were it not for the KING OF THE HILL VIPER!
People like to associate themselves w/ champions and winners....and the Viper is the image for the entire Chrysler line. It stands for boldness, attitude, confidence, and red blooded American cubic inches and red-neck torque and aggressiveness! To eliminate the heart and soul of the Chrysler corporation would be like the Colts eliminating Peyton Manning...even though he is only 1/11th of the whole team....he really is the whole team!
 
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fireball

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Well, now that product guru Jim Press has been recruited by Chrysler from Toyota it begs the question - What does Toyota make that you really, really want? What does Toyota have that you want to be seen in? Noth'n, nada, zippo. All Toyota has to offer is quality and relaibility - and people buy it in droves. Toyota was on the verge with the Supra and now it's dead. There's rumors of a new supercar but Toyota managed to make it to #1 in the world on the back of BORING, but high quality cars. I'l like to see Chrysler with high quality cool cars but I doubt it.

I respect guys like Press and Ghosen but they have yet to make a car that I just have to purchase. So far they make cars for other people.
 

RAYSIR

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MAN, I heard the rumor too last Monday golfing. A friend of a second cousin was telling me that the NEW Viperette would be out for 09. It'll have smaller rear tires so it can do easier burn-outs.:headbang:
 

Chuck 98 RT/10

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There is no other reason to be proud of a Chevy product for the backwoods guys, were it not for the Vette,
There is no reason to be proud of the Ford line were it not for the Mustang,

Both of which survived rumors of their demise numerous times over their long history.
 

dave6666

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The carmaker’s recovery strategy outlined last February includes the elimination of 13,000 jobs, reducing the number of vehicle platforms from 12 to seven by 2012, axing 10-20 per cent of models and shrinking the dealer network.

Well, that'll put my skivvies in a wedge when the Viper is on a Neon chassis...
 

Nsane1

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I sure hope I'm wrong, but I'm betting with my wallet that 08 is the last year. With all the rumors of a ** version later, it makes more sense for me to wait for #3, but I'm puuling the trigger on on 08 instead.

We all want them to live forever... I do due diligence for private placement firms; while the Viper is profitable, it's not profitable enough for the likes of the guys running the place now. They already dumped Mopar, which I thought was part of the genes of Chrysler muscle, what's next?

Of course, if they make a 700hp 09, I'll be happy I'm wrong, and get one of those too, I never said I was a good gambler.
 

Casey

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They made WAYYYYYY too many changes to the Viper this year to end it!

I've heard just the opposite at Bob Evans this morning, my waitress told me they are making a 1200hp TT SRT in '09!! :D
 

dave6666

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They made WAYYYYYY too many changes to the Viper this year to end it!

I've heard just the opposite at Bob Evans this morning, my waitress told me they are making a 1200hp TT SRT in '09!! :D

Man, you so lucky. I bet she even looked like that ******* gal that got booted off that plane. Man...
 

PERMABEAR

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Well, now that product guru Jim Press has been recruited by Chrysler from Toyota it begs the question - What does Toyota make that you really, really want? What does Toyota have that you want to be seen in? Noth'n, nada, zippo. All Toyota has to offer is quality and relaibility - and people buy it in droves. Toyota was on the verge with the Supra and now it's dead. There's rumors of a new supercar but Toyota managed to make it to #1 in the world on the back of BORING, but high quality cars. I'l like to see Chrysler with high quality cool cars but I doubt it.

I respect guys like Press and Ghosen but they have yet to make a car that I just have to purchase. So far they make cars for other people.

I agree...how many Supras are currently being built? Add this guy, plus Wolfgang being nixed for a$$hole nardelli, plus the upcomming recession and you can minus the Viper after '08.:mad:
 
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Kala

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At VOI 9 I remember a speaker on stage saying that Viper owners were valuable to Dodge since most owned businesses & were brand loyal when purchasing trucks and vans.
 

Warfang

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We'll see what the new fellow from Toyota decides to do. My guess is that he will make all the product decisions in view of the incredible success he had at boosting the sales while he was at Toyota.

See... there are people that think because he's from Toyota, he'll be the second coming for Viper longevity and quality control. Quality control, maybe. But I think the #1 reason he was brought in... fuel economy.

If I remember correctly, with Celicas and Supras no longer being sold, Toyota has NOTHING performance-oriented. Which doesn't look good for the Viper and SRT in general. I expect to see a gradual rollout of hybrid and diesel Chrysler vehicles, and a steady improvement on the QC.

I'll keep my fingers crossed.
 

black mamba1

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Geez, I hate to say this, but I would not be surprisd if there were SOME truth to this rumor. The Viper is a very limited production "image" car, something that does not resonate w/ bean counters. NOW, toyota IS making a high performance Lexus sports car, but they overtook Ford as the no. 1 carmaker in the U.S. without a sports car. But, on the other hand, there has NEVER been a successful American car manufacturer that did not have a sports car as an image car. Chrysler was almost non existence as a car maker when they had no image car back in the K car days.
Car racing is the most popular American sport, more than football or baseball. To eliminate the sports car from Chrysler is suicide if you ask me....but unfortunately, there are some suicidal CEO's out there.:sadpace:
In Viper magazine the design engineers did say that they had a very limited budget and a limited time frame. While the Gen 4 improvements are impressive, more money and more time would have resulted in even more performance improvements.
Bottom line is we dont know, and there is no way to know. Lets just enjoy our cars and support the Viper line as best we can.
 

viperdrummer

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First, let me say I hope they keep making Vipers for a looonnnnngggg time to come.

But I find that hard to believe.

Why do venture capitalists buy companies? Lots of reasons, but I think they can be summarized: To make money on the turnover. They buy, "streamline" them and then cash out. Most in less than 5 years. Does the Viper (ultra-low volume, questionably profitable, halo car or not) survive in that environment? I fear not...

To make matters worse, this deal might not have happened without Daimler providing 2B dollars to help finance the deal. Suggests to me the deal is run by financial guys, not car guys. And the car guys who remain are - in my opinion - are going to be disappointed.

This is the most sensible and I suspect accurate analysis. I think the Viper (I have had 4) is on the way out in the current climate, perhaps to return years from now when another generation brings the badge out of the closet once again for image. I do not see the current crowd keeping the car and I suspect its days are numbered. And, I never believed previous rumors, but this one has traction (at least to me)
 

FE 065

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Detroit TV news mentioned tonight that the new owners said while they won't drop any model lines (Chrysler, Dodge etc), there might be some models that are dropped.

-------------------------------
For sale:
Chrome ACR wheels
New SVS short shifter
 
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fireball

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They made WAYYYYYY too many changes to the Viper this year to end it! :D

Just before they cancelled the Hummer H1 they did a complete redesign. The truck looked the same but the entire drivetrain was re-engineered. New motor, new transmission, new axles, new geared hubs (Hummers have a 2:1 gearbox at each wheel), new interior, etc. ---CANCELLED--- right after the resdesign.

It can happen. I'm not sure how many model years they sold the Supra after its redesgn but I think it had a fairly short life as well.

I'm not buying a car this year but when I do (likely 2009) it'll likely be a Viper - I sure hope they're still around.
 

Coloviper

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Actually it does not matter if it is on the way in or the way out. How many of you guys and gals buy a car for what it will be in 2 or 3 or 5 years? None of you! You see it now and want it now.

Enjoy the Viper for what it is and the time it is around. If you are worried, I mean really worried about it dying at the end of this year, then buy an 08'. There were the rumors about the 06' being the last year. I decided this was my last chance to get a new one and thus I bought a new 06'. Guess what? The hot as ever 08' came out and I am slightly kicking myself that I bought the 06' yet nobody is going to be touching a new 08' for what deal I got new on my 06' so I am happy in the end. That and I absolutely love my 06' Coupe. I have hesitation but no real regrets in the end.

Cars come and cars go. Nobody ever thought Ford's SVT division would die, but it is dead. Dead no matter what they say or spin, it is dead. Same goes for many other great cars over the years. The Viper has had an extremely good run no matter if they kill it mid year this year from production. It was and is a success. It helped along with the new RAM Truck at that time in 1992/1993 to totally re-vitalize Dodge at a time when the 10,000 mile Dynastys were blowing up factory engines left and right. Dodge was horrible in those years. The Viper worked hard to change perception of that.

Now Dodge is going through another change and it will be quality and efficiency, par the course. They will create a new halo car for that. I am sure of it and it will not be the Viper.

If it becomes too expensive for the 500-750 cars a year, then Dodge will farm out the entire build, along with the already car painting aspect to companies like Saleen Specialty Vehicles (SSV) and ASC (now both owned by Saleen) to build these cars for them. I do not think the Viper will die as there is money to be made there, but it is not the big money maker for Dodge. Same went for the Ford GT, and others. The new trend is to farm out the specialty vehicles to specialty companies becuase the real money is still on low margin, high volume vehicles. This is not Ferrari wiht the HUGE margins they have o their small volumes.

As far as if the Viper will die tomorrow, I don't feel it will. I think the V-10 definitely has a shelf life on it, but I feel Dodge would offer a future 7.1 Hemi (which IS exactly 426 cid) before it would just kill the next generation Viper. I mean the very first prototype Vipers had V8s in them. Would I buy a Viper with a 650HP V8 in it? You bet your ass I would. I do love the V-10 but I am not ga-ga over it. If it was a sound alone contest, I would take my V-8 in my trusty ole Jeep SRT-8 but that is just me. I happen to really like the sound of a V-8.

Bottomline is stop worrying and enjoy the now, because the now IS changing. I am no tree hugger, but I do respect the environment to a point. Do not under-estimate the power of the polar bear and when they start washing up on the shores of Canada, Russia and the USA. The true understanding of Global Warming WILL impact our daily lives in the near future.

The Viper WILL die some day, but I doubt Dodge will kill it. Mother nature will be the one to "bobbitize it" and others like it.
 

viperdrummer

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Just before they cancelled the Hummer H1 they did a complete redesign. The truck looked the same but the entire drivetrain was re-engineered. New motor, new transmission, new axles, new geared hubs (Hummers have a 2:1 gearbox at each wheel), new interior, etc. ---CANCELLED--- right after the resdesign.

It can happen. I'm not sure how many model years they sold the Supra after its redesgn but I think it had a fairly short life as well.

I'm not buying a car this year but when I do (likely 2009) it'll likely be a Viper - I sure hope they're still around.

Yeah, there are dozens of cars that were their best in the last yr of production and got canned GM is famous for this. I recall the 93 Caddy Allante that finally got the Northstar engine and some other goodies and was promptly dropped. Then there is the Ford GT.

Chevy will love the demise of Viper--they can go back to making 40,000 350 HP pieces of crap and be king of the hill again. Competition is a wonderful thing and Vette owners (I am one) have a lot to thank Dodge for.
 

SnakeBitten

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Well Honda keeping the NSX alive for a decade plus even though they loss huge amounts of money on it, from what Ive read, makes me have a little faith in the Viper......I read some posts here that said the Gen III is a money maker for Chrylser so I think it will be around for the foreseeable future...What other current Dodge product can rally the Automotive world and bring attention to the brand like the Viper???

The way I see it is that as it is now, on such a small budget compared to the Corvette program, its beating it in performance and the Gen III makes money....Why would any company kill something that not only makes a profit with such a small budget but brings priceless instant celebrity/attention/legitimacy to the brand????I would think a product line like that would be the perfect product for a typical beancounter...Regardless if it contributes hugely to the Corporations revenue percentagewise, its still making money.....To me for small money they are getting a whole lot out the Viper program...Im not even remotely an economist/financial wiz but to me it makes common sense to keep the Viper around....
 

viperdrummer

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Well Honda keeping the NSX alive for a decade plus even though they loss huge amounts of money on it, from what Ive read, makes me have a little faith in the Viper......I read some posts here that said the Gen III is a money maker for Chrylser so I think it will be around for the foreseeable future...What other current Dodge product can rally the Automotive world and bring attention to the brand like the Viper???

The way I see it is that as it is now, on such a small budget compared to the Corvette program, its beating it in performance and the Gen III makes money....Why would any company kill something that not only makes a profit with such a small budget but brings priceless instant celebrity/attention/legitimacy to the brand????I would think a product line like that would be the perfect product for a typical beancounter...Regardless if it contributes hugely to the Corporations revenue percentagewise, its still making money.....To me for small money they are getting a whole lot out the Viper program...Im not even remotely an economist/financial wiz but to me it makes common sense to keep the Viper around....

If the Viper makes money I would love to see the numbers. They have had some huge incentives just to get some off the lots. Honda and Chrysler is apples and oranges . Honda has walking around cash thanks to bullet proof Accords, Pilots and minivans, and they also just didn't get bought by a bunch nut cutters .
 

dave6666

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If the Viper makes money I would love to see the numbers. They have had some huge incentives just to get some off the lots. Honda and Chrysler is apples and oranges . Honda has walking around cash thanks to bullet proof Accords, Pilots and minivans, and they also just didn't get bought by a bunch nut cutters .

If it loses money based on manufacturing cost versus sale price, but gets people on to the Dodge lots because they are pumped up about the Viper that just passed them, is it a profitable car?
 

SnakeBitten

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If the Viper makes money I would love to see the numbers. They have had some huge incentives just to get some off the lots. Honda and Chrysler is apples and oranges . Honda has walking around cash thanks to bullet proof Accords, Pilots and minivans, and they also just didn't get bought by a bunch nut cutters .

I wasnt equating Honda and Chrysler as equals but I see what you are saying...Honda and Toyota can stand tall without the need of a Halo car...But Dodge needs the Viper/SRT program as the face of the brand imho. Its a true halo car and add priceless intangibles to the company.....For that reason and that its budget is comparatively small and some have stated that it makes money, I thought it might be a bean counters dream......

If the small budget Viper program is able to beat the competitions comparitively no expense spared supercar while bringing people to the brand Id say thats a pretty good return on there investment....
 
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fireball

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I just might be a little sensative. I bought an MR2-Turbo in 1991. It was cancelled (in Canada where I live, in the US it continued with the rather sad MR). Then I bought an NSX, it too was cancelled. Next big ticket vehicle was my Hummer H1. Cancelled....
I bought a Viper......

Maybe it's me?
 

Mopar488

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Buy what you want and don't worry what is going to happen. You are really in a win/win situation either way. If they quit making them and you already have one, what do you think will happen to the value of the one you have? duh
 

Yellow32

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They still have some models of the Viper in the pipeline.. the ACR and the High Output model...so it should be here till 2010. After that ...I think CAFE will kill the V10.

No it will not.

to quote:


What is the penalty for not meeting CAFE requirements for any given model year (MY)?
The penalty for failing to meet CAFE standards recently increased from $5.00 to $5.50 per tenth of a mile per gallon for each tenth under the target value times the total volume of those vehicles manufactured for a given model year.

Since 1983, manufacturers have paid more than $500 million in civil penalties. Most European manufacturers regularly pay CAFE civil penalties ranging from less than $1 million to more than $20 million annually. Asian and domestic manufacturers have never paid a civil penalty.


For MY 2002, five passenger car fleets including BMW, DaimlerChrysler import, Fiat, Lotus, and Porsche are projected to fail to meet 27.5 mpg passenger car CAFE standard. In addition, two light truck fleets including BMW and Volkswagen will likely fail to meet the light truck CAFE standard of 20.7 mpg. Final Reports for MY 2002 provided by the EPA to NHTSA in mid-calendar year of 2003 may adjust these projections favorably.

More here:

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/cafe/overview.htm

-J
 

Yellow32

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Just before they cancelled the Hummer H1 they did a complete redesign. The truck looked the same but the entire drivetrain was re-engineered. New motor, new transmission, new axles, new geared hubs (Hummers have a 2:1 gearbox at each wheel), new interior, etc. ---CANCELLED--- right after the resdesign.

It can happen. I'm not sure how many model years they sold the Supra after its redesgn but I think it had a fairly short life as well.

I'm not buying a car this year but when I do (likely 2009) it'll likely be a Viper - I sure hope they're still around.

In the USA, I believe 6 model years, 1993 - 1998 in the Supra's final design. I believe it went a little further in Japan.

-J
 

Warfang

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I just might be a little sensative. I bought an MR2-Turbo in 1991. It was cancelled (in Canada where I live, in the US it continued with the rather sad MR). Then I bought an NSX, it too was cancelled. Next big ticket vehicle was my Hummer H1. Cancelled....
I bought a Viper......

Maybe it's me?

Man! We need you to buy a Prius, and every model of minivans. They offend me. :rolaugh:
 
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