IT'S OFFICIAL!!... bye bye VIPER :(

[cdover73]

Well I'm gonna venture to say that MY car is the most rare... Dealers want a fortune for it, warranty companies deny its existence when they have to repair it, parts seem to be obsolete for it, and it took me 42 years to find. Yep...I got the unicorn of the Vipers!!

 

[broomrider]

After careful consideration, I'm going to keep my thoughts to myself on what I think might be the cars that bring the dollars.

Dang! I can see your point. The world may never know.

 

[Free2go]

It's just an opinion Jeff. Your not gonna get crucified.

 

[ViperJeff]

It's just an opinion Jeff. Your not gonna get crucified.

I do have 1 1996 that I think will be worth some $$$'s Viper GTS Blue/White Stripes..... ACR. Fan Favorite and well, the only one of it's kind. The Dark Green 1996, I just don't see the same value even thou there is only one. Where as the 2 Viper Blacks from 1996 without the stripes, I think will do much better than the Dark Green. I think all the 1992's at some point will do well, but in the GM world of Auction Houses, The Viper it's self will never bring the big numbers that I think people want to see. The Vipers that I think (opinion remember) are the Vipers with great provenance. At that point, the bidding just isn't on the Viper, but a history of ownership that is more valuable than the Viper it's self.

Hey, but what the hell do I know, I hope I'm wrong and now that it's year 25 and the 1992 is by every sense of the word a "Classic"!!!!!

But do you really want to sell when everyone is holding onto there penny's

Vj

 

[Paul Hawker]

Imagine provenance will be much more important than rarity. Color is not as important than one that has some history, such as setting track records, being owned by a famous person or winning inportant races. Most of the engines and transmissions are pretty much all the same from the factory, but something like the carbon prototype, or aftermarket hero car might bring some big bucks.

Run of the mill examples will bring run of the mill prices, as rarity is much more common in Vipers than most other factory production runs.

 

[GRANGER73]

Special cars will likely bring more money in the long run. In 1992, according to my research, there were 21 production cars that went directly from the assembly line to Chrysler Engineering, that were utilized for testing and evaluation. Only 8 of those cars managed to make it into the hands of consumers during the past 25 years.

These are the cars VIN's of the 8 cars that made it :009, 012, 033, 122, 123, 236, 249, 246. These are the VIN's that didn't: 003, 004, 008, , 010, , 015, 016, 017, 019, 027, , 041, 042, 044, 080.

 

[MoparMap]

I wonder how the record run gen 4 ACR would do years from now. That would be a cool story piece to own. Same deal with the gen 5 one, assuming they used the same car to break every track record.

 

[TexasTorred]

So if the original build Viper as we know it goes away, even though it may be revived as a completely different platform, will that mean our current "original" cars will see a hike in value in the future? Even the '03's...?

I like the way you think. You bet they'll appreciate

 

[MoparMap]

I like the way you think. You bet they'll appreciate

I'm not sure what I would do if my car ever appreciated to six figures (without inflation's help, lol). It would be like someone who bought a Charger Daytona or Superbird back in the day and still own and drives it. I know my dad used to have a 69 Superbee with a 4 speed and a Hemi back in the day, but sold it because it was just another car back then. I love my Viper and don't think I'd ever stop driving it. I think the mileage on mine will probably even out whatever appreciation might happen.

 

[TexasTorred]

I'm not sure what I would do if my car ever appreciated to six figures (without inflation's help, lol). It would be like someone who bought a Charger Daytona or Superbird back in the day and still own and drives it. I know my dad used to have a 69 Superbee with a 4 speed and a Hemi back in the day, but sold it because it was just another car back then. I love my Viper and don't think I'd ever stop driving it. I think the mileage on mine will probably even out whatever appreciation might happen.

"If your dad only knew" I love my Gen III w/22K miles. I take VERY good care of it and drive it every weekend I can. (Had 4K in '11 when I bought it.) Some Vipers are just so rare/nice, I'm sure the owners hardly ever drive them OR have several vipers and drive/track them---when they get around to it. Me, HUGE MOPAR family, so I split time on the weekends between my Gen III and my Hellcat (Charger). Both cars I intend to keep 'indefinitely.' Would never sell either and I feel it is so much 'less expensive' to just put some $$ in it each year vs. buy a new one. Love having a convertible & I like having an 'older' Viper...rarer /hardly see them on the road and they are just a blunt instrument -in a good way (no traction control, cruise control, etc.) vs. the new Gen V. What I love most is when cruising..... on the rare occasion you see another Viper, it's always a 'waive/thumbs up' or even just pull over to chat. (You're not going to get that from Vette and Mustang owners, which I've had both cars.). Ok, sorry to ramble.....but I just love my Viper!

 

[steve e]

Time is the biggest factor, look at any 50 year old Vett, Mustang, or anything still in good shape, there worth a ton, Vipers will be no different. I can't tell you how many Hemi's, GSX's,LS6's and old caddys I let go for nothing, back then they had little value If I could only have seen the future. And Texas I love my Viper to, Its awesome.

 

[MerlinsGarage]

Time is the biggest factor, look at any 50 year old Vett, Mustang, or anything still in good shape, there worth a ton, Vipers will be no different. I can't tell you how many Hemi's, GSX's,LS6's and old caddys I let go for nothing, back then they had little value If I could only have seen the future. And Texas I love my Viper to, Its awesome.

What you are saying makes sense. I do hope you are right.

 

[MerlinsGarage]

From the OP.

What chance does a mid-engine Viper have for next-gen?

The mother ship is well versed in this area.

Besides the NFGT there is no other American manufacturer building them.

GM has threatened many times................

 

[ViperJeff]

I don't know, go mid engine, at a minimum add 100k to the current pricing structure....

The current members of the Viper Community will loose there minds

 

[MerlinsGarage]

Haha, you are probably right.

I guess it is selfish of me to want a supercar capable of competing in the mid-engine arena.

I see the new NSX and McLaren offerings at ~$200k and think........ if only......................

Best,

Bret.

 

[ViperJeff]

I guess in time we will see

 

[Bobpantax]

I was a ********* manual tranny guy until experiencing the eight speed auto in my Hellcat. Yes. The manual in my TA is fun and engaging. But a Viper with a mid engine Hellcat engine and an eight speed paddle shifting capable tranny weighing 3300 lbs or less would be a monster. The intercooler system on the Hellcat is phenomenal. You would be amazed how cool it keeps the engine after multiple hard runs. Just consider this. I have run a 10.98 sec quarter after four prior back to back runs in my Hellcat, at a density altitude of about 870 feet, which weighs 4449 pounds without me in it. Just imagine what a mid engine eight speed auto Viper weighing 3300 pounds or less would do at the drag strip!!!!! It would be mind blowing. Don't get me wrong. I love my TA. But if they build one like this, I will buy it.

I don't know, go mid engine, at a minimum add 100k to the current pricing structure....

The current members of the Viper Community will loose there minds

 

[ViperJeff]

I was a ********* manual tranny guy until experiencing the eight speed auto in my Hellcat. Yes. The manual in my TA is fun and engaging. But a Viper with a mid engine Hellcat engine and an eight speed paddle shifting capable tranny weighing 3300 lbs or less would be a monster. The intercooler system on the Hellcat is phenomenal. You would be amazed how cool it keeps the engine after multiple hard runs. Just consider this. I have run a 10.98 sec quarter after four prior back to back runs in my Hellcat, at a density altitude of about 870 feet, which weighs 4449 pounds without me in it. Just imagine what a mid engine eight speed auto Viper weighing 3300 pounds or less would do at the drag strip!!!!! It would be mind blowing. Don't get me wrong. I love my TA. But if they build one like this, I will buy it.

Would you pay 240k?

 

[Bobpantax]

I do not believe that the pricing would be that high. The engine, tranny, diff and brakes already exist. More like in the 115 to 125K range. The Chally Hellcat is under 70K. The new Hellcat Jeep will be in the low 80s or so since the SRT 392 variant is in the low 70s. So the 115 to 125K range for the Viper would make sense and be very attractive for many buyers.

 

[ViperJeff]

I do not believe that the pricing would be that high. The engine, tranny, diff and brakes already exist. More like in the 115 to 125K range. The Chally Hellcat is under 70K. The new Hellcat Jeep will be in the low 80s or so since the SRT 392 variant is in the low 70s. So the 115 to 125K range for the Viper would make sense and be very attractive for many buyers.

Yea, but the engineering, design, tooling.... Etc would all be new. But then again, suppose FIAT could borrow from antherlatform

 

[Bobpantax]

They did for the Gen V ( seats - same shell as Ferraris, carbon fiber and foamed aircraft aluminum panel tech and some manufacturing procedures) and they will undoubtedly share even more for the Gen VI if one is ever authorized. The mid/rear engine frame, etc. tech is available. I would guess that somewhere deep in the FCA skunkworks a car like this has already been built without the final body panels yet. Remember the Mercedes SLS running around with the Viper body when the SLS was in development when Mercedes owned Chrysler? It would not be a new trick.

Yea, but the engineering, design, tooling.... Etc would all be new. But then again, suppose FIAT could borrow from antherlatform

 

[ViperJeff]

I want to visit the skunkworks

 

[broomrider]

I do not believe that the pricing would be that high. The engine, tranny, diff and brakes already exist. More like in the 115 to 125K range. The Chally Hellcat is under 70K. The new Hellcat Jeep will be in the low 80s or so since the SRT 392 variant is in the low 70s. So the 115 to 125K range for the Viper would make sense and be very attractive for many buyers.

I have heard rumblings that 2017 will be the last year for the hellcat. Am I the only one who has heard this? Also I was told that the hellcat jeep was just talk. If its not, that jeep alone will be mind blowing. The srt8 jeep is a super bad sleeper, I can only imagine with a cat purring under the hood how kick *** that would be.

 

[MerlinsGarage]

Mid-Engine Viper - SRT Are you listening?


BTW, I should visit here more often, You guys are awesome!

A mid-engine Viper would rock the auto world. Period. Beating GM to the punch and putting Ford on notice.

Question is would Fiat allow Viper to progress to next performance level? Utilizing the highest performance platform.

Brand overlap would not be an issue. The "Ferraristi" is a tighter group than the Knights Templar so no worries of sales cannibalization and this 700hp beast would be nothing like an Alfa. It would also be great to have another possible entry into racing. Would it step on F-car toes, probably not, but hey, that's racing.

Could they build it? As someone posted above: F-engineers wrote the book on mid-engine - is $200k and 3500#s an achievable target? You bet.

Would it sell? Would I buy a ME-Viper over a McLaren, NSX or R8? Hell-cat yeah!

But will they?

If they need any justification or encouragement I will go on public record today offering the first deposit.

Best, Bret.

 

[Snakize]

Been a lurker here for a while but this really bothers me. What a load of crap! GM has been able to keep the vette going for decades!!! Granted, GM has more money but Chrysler isn't exactly poor. I see no legit reason why Chrysler cannot maintain Viper production EVEN IF it is a bit of a loss in some years. This airbag excuse doesn't jive...but even if true, why is the viper being held to standards like a regular passenger car? It's a low volume specialty car that should be exempted from these bogus safety regulations that do nothing but inflate the cost of cars, and put smaller production lines out of business.

As for talk of some kind of euro-viper with a mid-engine V8 - sorry, that's a totally different car. It may be great and all but it's not a viper. If it was sold as a viper, I'm 99% sure I wouldn't buy it...and I'm skeptical of anyone who says they would. If they try to sell it as another model it's going to flop anyway, because dodge only has cred from its muscle-car days, and very little in the way of super-car. The viper is all it has and they keep axing it or otherwise screwing with its availability.

Personally, with the flaky management and terrible "up top" decisions, I can understand that people are reluctant to buy a viper knowing that at any time and for any random reason they higher-ups decide to axe it. What aftermarket company is going to want to take the time and effort to make products for a viper with this hanging over them? And why would anyone want to do business with a company that can't stand behind its products, especially in tough economic times?

The Viper is an awesome car but the company behind it is a complete loser, run by pure idiots. Sorry, that's the truth. I'm not including the viper guys in this (the people who designed, engineered and built it - they are great), just the money-men who have authority they shouldn't have. The viper "project" should have more autonomy and independence within the Chrysler/fiat company so that it can't be shut down for obviously nonsensical reasons like this one. I bet some ******* up top is going to reap a big pay-day bonus for axing the viper and telling shareholders how he boosted profits...and all he had to do was kill any momentum the Viper and SRT lineup was gaining.

Ok, enough ranting...sorry, I'm genuinely upset about this...

 

[ViperJeff]

Been a lurker here for a while but this really bothers me. What a load of crap! GM has been able to keep the vette going for decades!!! Granted, GM has more money but Chrysler isn't exactly poor. I see no legit reason why Chrysler cannot maintain Viper production EVEN IF it is a bit of a loss in some years. This airbag excuse doesn't jive...but even if true, why is the viper being held to standards like a regular passenger car? It's a low volume specialty car that should be exempted from these bogus safety regulations that do nothing but inflate the cost of cars, and put smaller production lines out of business.

As for talk of some kind of euro-viper with a mid-engine V8 - sorry, that's a totally different car. It may be great and all but it's not a viper. If it was sold as a viper, I'm 99% sure I wouldn't buy it...and I'm skeptical of anyone who says they would. If they try to sell it as another model it's going to flop anyway, because dodge only has cred from its muscle-car days, and very little in the way of super-car. The viper is all it has and they keep axing it or otherwise screwing with its availability.

Personally, with the flaky management and terrible "up top" decisions, I can understand that people are reluctant to buy a viper knowing that at any time and for any random reason they higher-ups decide to axe it. What aftermarket company is going to want to take the time and effort to make products for a viper with this hanging over them? And why would anyone want to do business with a company that can't stand behind its products, especially in tough economic times?

The Viper is an awesome car but the company behind it is a complete loser, run by pure idiots. Sorry, that's the truth. I'm not including the viper guys in this (the people who designed, engineered and built it - they are great), just the money-men who have authority they shouldn't have. The viper "project" should have more autonomy and independence within the Chrysler/fiat company so that it can't be shut down for obviously nonsensical reasons like this one. I bet some ******* up top is going to reap a big pay-day bonus for axing the viper and telling shareholders how he boosted profits...and all he had to do was kill any momentum the Viper and SRT lineup was gaining.

Ok, enough ranting...sorry, I'm genuinely upset about this...

Welcome to the Viper Club, hell of a first post.

 

[MerlinsGarage]

Snake you make some good points and I mostly agree.

I don't want to see Viper leave the market either. I love them as much as anybody but the immediate problem is sales.
My point was and is if there needs to be a change to keep the brand alive use your resources and build something different. The next near term hurtle will be conformity.
The Viper in its current configuration will be increasingly difficult to meet CAFE, DOT and NHTSA regs. For manufacturers to produce high displacement NA front engine vehicles will become nearly impossible. So regardless of how much we love the current iteration the car must change.
So I figured I'd throw out a suggestion.

Cant beat up a guy for trying........................and yeah if it turns out to be a mid engine Viper supercar, I will buy it.

Best, Bret.

 

[Bobpantax]

Snakize wrote:

"As for talk of some kind of euro-viper with a mid-engine V8 - sorry, that's a totally different car. It may be great and all but it's not a viper. If it was sold as a viper, I'm 99% sure I wouldn't buy it...and I'm skeptical of anyone who says they would. If they try to sell it as another model it's going to flop anyway, because dodge only has cred from its muscle-car days, and very little in the way of super-car. The viper is all it has and they keep axing it or otherwise screwing with its availability."

I do not agree with this. The goal of the original Viper was to take the then available tech as of 1992 and produce a two seat, very basic sports car that leapfrogged any other car on the road powerwise. It was primitive but fulfilled that goal. A less tha 3300 pound mid or rear engined Viper with an eight speed or better auto capable of shifting at lightning speed with paddle shifting capability would fulfill that goal today. In fact for Viper purposes, it would be pretty simple to bump the engine up to 750 HP instead of 707 HP.

It can be argued that the Viper has not fulfilled its original mission goal since the last year of the Gen II. The Z06 Vettes caught up with the Gen IIIs and Gen IVs. And the Z06 Vettes now are at the track keeping up with most Gen Vs except the TAs and the ACRs.

I would like to see a Viper that is as outrageous as the original one was in 1992 and I can assure you that people like me would buy it.

 

[MerlinsGarage]

Interest can easily be gauged with a concept car.

Hard for me to believe SRT will be content with "just" performance modified pony cars, SUVs and sedans. I say "just" because they are awesome in their own right but not what I would consider a halo car.

 

[Paul Hawker]

Chrysler had their own Mid Engine concept car, the ME4/12. Got a chance to ride it it at a California Speedway event.

Car was a one off, but almost production quality. 4 Turbos drove the frantic 12 cyl. rear engine. Super high tech design for body, driveline and interior.

Everybody thought that might become a replacement or sister car to the Viper. The designer was super passonate about the chances for production, but it never got a business case acceptable to Chrysler.

I believe that if the Viper is closed down, it will go into Limbo. Various champion will put forth engineering and business cases from time to time to attempt to resurrect the nameplate. It might be used as a totally irrelevant vehicle to fill up production facilities, (like Ford did with the Mustang 2) or be used again for a very high performance track assault weapon during better times.

I just spoke to some FCA people, and they had no idea or interest in the Viper going forward. Said had far to many other things on their plates to even give it a second thought. Gotta wait for the Passion.