Just got back from the LA Auto Show where I saw the SRT....

[Venom Lover]

I went in with the words that several have said on my mind: "The car looks better in person." I was seriously hoping that would be true, because from what I've seen in the photos to date, I think the styling is a step backwards. Obviously that's my personal opinion....

So, with great anticipation, my wife and I made our way through the convention center. On the way to the West Hall, we passed the Lotus display in the Councourse Hall (I'm an ex-Lotus guy, so I wanted to see what they had). There was a massive crowd of people there, and when we finally made our way to the front, I managed to catch the ear of a gentleman standing there manning the display. We were right in front of the re-styled Elise that will be coming to America in MY04. Now there is an example of a car that was restyled all for the better (and don't get me wrong, I loved the orignal Elise styling). After chatting with the guy for a minute or so, he opened up the ropes for me and my wife to come inside their cordoned-off area, sit in the car, etc. He gave us the VIP treatment and was talking up a storm. After half an hour, we exchanged cards, and it turns out he is Arnie Johnson, Lotus Cars USA's new CEO!

I tell you, the street-legal Elise is going to be one hell of a car, though many of the design philosophy elements differ from the Viper so it may not be of interest to many of you. For me, I'd pay $38K to have one (what Arnie said MSRP would be).

The point of the above diversion is to note that I was feeling pretty pumped by the time we got to the Dodge booth, since Lotus rolled out the red carpet. The crowd around the Viper was small compared to the crowd around the Lotus booth. So I see the SRT, and......it looks just like it does in the photos. I felt like all the wind was taken out of my sails. I looked from all angles, I spent lots of time, etc., but it just failed to raise my pulse. Also, I came with a print-out of my SRT reservation confirmation e-mail and asked if I could see the car closer up. First of all, there didn't seem to be anyone in the entire Dodge area who really knew what they were talking about, and when I finally found the manager in charge, he said no, even though he said he believed me that I had a cert #. Let's just say, this was major antithesis to the treatment at Lotus.

In the end, I will probably still take delivery of a 2003 SRT, but it remains to be seen how long I will hang onto it. Unless it proves to be much more special than Gen II in the performance arena, it won't hold my interest. Given that my '97 dyno'd at 425 rwhp bone stock, and that's what my '01 dyno's at with catback and intake, that translates to about 490 hp at the flywheel. The advertised info at the Dodge booth was "505 cid, 500 bhp, 525 ft-lbs", so if that's true (and is underrated by say 10-15 hp), it means my '01 is only 20-25 hp shy of where this car will be. I know what 25 more hp feels like on the Viper, and it's hardly noticeable. But who knows, the real SRT could come out advertised at 525 bhp as many speculate here, the weight savings and wider tires could make a difference, etc. So, maybe it will feel faster.

When my wife and I got home, and we pulled into the garage next to the GTS, we both just sat there looking at it and said "Now that's a Viper!"

P.S., I will also be seeking out the local Lotus dealer to find out how I can put a deposit down on this Elise....

<FONT COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Venom Lover on 04-16-2002 at 08:04 PM</font>

 

[Mike - in Denver]

Mike/Russ

Thank you for your posts. I hope that everyone that sees the SRT at a show posts thier opinions since some of us cannot see the car in person before we make our decisions.

Perhaps they will listen to us about color choices if there is enough concern about the body style?

Shame on Dodge for having goofballs behind the ropes at these shows. Dodge has shown such great support of the Viper owners before. Here is an idea. If Dodge cannot have enough "Viper knowlegable" people to go to all of the major shows, perhaps they could at least train the show people to give VCA card holders a closer look. Or perhaps in each city put aside special times for VCA members with cards to have a special viewing of the car. That would be a cool way of rewarding the VCA, and could demonstrate to "possible new owners" that actually owning a Viper (any year) is a special thing. Just a thought.

Mike McGuire

 

[MES]

Is there a list of appearances for the SRT-10? I want to see if it really looks, how should I put this, un-Viper'ish in person. To me the new Gen III has lost it's sole and personality that the Gen I & II have. Now it looks just like every other car, a very fast car, but just a regular everyday car.

Today I stopped at a gas station where 2 young guys (10-12 years) walked over and were slobbering all over the Viper. I wonder if I was in a SRT-10 if that would have happened, the magic may be gone

 

[VOI9 ASP]

I flew all the way to Dallas from the west coast to see the car a while back. I was also ignored. The car shows seem to staff the floor with $5 per hour none car people. They wouldn't let me get anywhere near the car and there were no managers anywhere around. I told them I was the president of one of the Viper club regions and I flew all the way from California to see this car. They could at least let me get close to the car... I was told...NO CAN DO.

I did like the car more in person. The car has some nice lines but I wish it could have been a little more aggressive looking. It did look aggressive enough for me to place a deposit on one. I can't wait to take delivery. This car will still get attention everywhere it goes.

 

[Performin Norman]

I agree completely. I think the car looks midstream. I think it really lost is heritage. The only reason I think I would want one is because it is new and different. New being the biggest part of that equation.

 

[Tpup]

I currently own an Elise and an Exige (Track use only). I drove the new Elise before they were shipped to LA for the show. They are great cars. They are a blast to drive!

Roy

 

[Russ M]

Cherm,

I am a Gen 2 RT/10 owner, and no way would I ever consider trading in my RT for the s8000. Maybe the new NSX will have more unique styling.

 

[FrankBarba]

Ford GT-40 anyone? i have certificates comming for the SRT. I wonder if ford is really going to produce the newest muscle car?

 

[Venom Lover]

Russ,
Excellent point: at $50K it's a great car! At $90K it's way over-priced, at least in terms of styling. I would never pay $80-90K for a street car that doesn't have exotic/stunning styling. While it may be true that it's too late for Dodge to change the styling, as far as I know the price isn't settled on yet....Sure, the first year will sell out regardless of price, but how many people in '04 will be willing to pay big bucks (i.e., anything more than the current MSRP) for bland styling?

Mike in Denver,
You're welcome. The reason I posted is exactly what you said: I would like to hear from everyone who sees this car in person, and I think it's useful info for people who don't have the opportunity before placing an order, even though liking the styling or not is highly subjective. I hope you have the chance next week during your layover. Yes, I am way more interested in the car if it comes in black. Unfortunately, that's because black seems to hide the less desirable features of the styling (e.g., those side scoops), as opposed to because it highlights the excellent styling features.

Richard,
I never said DC owes me anything. However, this is a public forum, and, within the rules of the board, I will state my opinion here. DC can choose either to listen, or to ignore what they hear, and frankly there seems to be more ignoring than listening. But that is their prerogative! They have obviously made a choice to go with what their marketing surveys say will sell, not what current owners, in general, seem to prefer. The only reason that's too bad is that I (and I suspect many other VCA members) really wanted to love this car in all respects, and many of us don't. But, as I said, unless the price is egregious, I will still buy an SRT with hopes that the performance will be what makes it special. Everybody seems to like the idea of 505 cid. Like you, it's just a matter of how long I hang onto it. And, finally, yes America and our Gen II Vipers are great!

MES,
I'm not sure I know what you mean by "list of appearances", but in any case, the Fall 2001 Viper Quarterly shows different design alternatives that were considered, and then on pp.28-29 has an article with several photos that pretty much do justice to what the car looks like in person. Anyway, I agree with everything you say in your post. If you've ever owned a C4/C5 Corvette, I think you know what it will be like pulling into a gas station with the SRT-10. Some people will be interested, but it won't be anything like pulling in with a blue/white GTS. Hang onto that baby, it's an all-time classic! (P.S., are you able to remove the BTR sidebar easily? Mine is a royal PITA it is in there so tight....)

Jerry,
Well I don't feel so bad if they wouldn't even let you anywhere near the car either! The odd thing is the excuse they used was "well if we let you near the car, the rest of this crowd would want a chance, too". I have 2 things to say in response to that: (1) I don't see anyone else in the crowd with a certificate or VCA badge, so I think they have a valid reason to tell others no, and (2) there was a larger crowd begging to sit in the Lotuses, and their CEO let me do it -- and I don't even own a Lotus now or belong to any Lotus club. It was Dodge's own choice to treat me as equally "unworthy" as everyone else in the crowd. Lotus went the extra mile with even worse crowd constraints. End of discussion. P.S., I disagree the car will draw big crowds. Maybe for a year when it first comes out, but then the interest will wane rapidly. Just my opinion of course!

JMcGuire,

Don't you mean EU's now????

Roy,
Nice to "meet" a fellow Lotus-lover here. Thanks for the feedback! My interest has just gone up even further! Hey, if you don't mind my asking, do you know what Lotus plans for the motor in the '04 Elise? What motor was in the one you drove? (The one at the show appeared to have the current Rover motor.) When I asked about the motor for the '04, all Arnie would say is "you won't be disappointed", but then he did't know about my current V10-induced torque addiction.

Anyway, any other feedback you have would be appreciated.

Cherm,
Actually, that's an excellent point. At least in my case, I can say I don't like the current RT/10 styling as much as the GTS styling, and when I was looking, it was a no-brainer that I would buy the coupe and not the roadster, even though I live in SoCal and the roadster concept per se was not a problem. That being said, I like the Gen II RT/10 styling better than the SRT, and I like the Gen II GTS styling better than the competion coupe. However, I do like the competition coupe styling better than the SRT....So, you've got a point!

<FONT COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Venom Lover on 01-06-2002 at 12:14 PM</font>

 

[Venom Lover]

Mako,
You don't like the car? Then don't buy one, dude, after all you're just a Corvette Troll! J/K

Oh, BTW, I hope you lapped SloCal before your clutch gave up the ghost. What kind of lap times were you seeing? How are you liking the C5R motor (doh! stupid question, I'm sure!

) Sorry about your clutch....

HEMIDAYTNA,
As I said in Russ's thread, yeah I'd take the GT40 over the SRT, at least in terms of styling. I wish Ford could've (or will) figure out how to make it lighter and achieve 400-500 hp without the blower. But between the GT40 and the Thunderbird, I'd say the tide is turning to the blue oval big-time. Sorry, guys, but unlike some or many of you, I go where the good product is; I have no brand loyalty. Don't get me wrong, I will keep my '97 GTS forever, and my '01 as long as I can afford to, because they are all-time classics. But I will not stay loyal to Dodge for future purchases if the Viper doesn't keep its edge!

<FONT COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Venom Lover on 01-07-2002 at 12:41 AM</font>

 

[Mike Brunton]

Mike,

I am the same way as you - the SRT was at Laconia, NH for bike week this year (last year now, actually), and while I did like it more in person, I still don't think it has the styling of the old GTS.

I wonder who the people are that Dodge did their "market research" on? You can buy Vipers all day at a small amount over invoice (Pemberton will even give you your choice on color!), so it's not like Dodge will always "sell all they can make". From what I hear, orders on 2002's are WAY down. The point is, I agree with you 100% that Dodge needs to keep it's 'edge' in order to keep people interested. While the SRT may be a bunch more civilized than the GenI RT/10, it's still going to be considered an outrageous specialty car by most people, so Dodge needs that edge there to keep us weirdos appeased.

Having said all that, I wish Dodge would have sent a booklet to VCA members or Viper owners - like the one that was in Viper magazine, that listed all the possible designs for the SRT (which were all slight variations on the same theme, I might add). Then they could have seen what the reaction was from people who have ALREADY committed to buy these cars, and would likely do so again. They are taking a big risk with the styling, I think, and I hope they are going to make up for it with the performance.

Mike, did you get any additional information on the Elise you could share? My brother is really interested in getting one when they come out, and I'm sure he'd be interested in any details you learned about the car! When we went to our local auto show, the lotus display was a mess. They had a local dealer giving info out, and he seemed totally disinterested in everything, and all he could say about the Elise was that he didn't think it would be coming to the USA, and if it did, he would not take a deposit until he had some on the way (yeah right). Did you get any pictures by chance?

One final thing - I've talked about the power on the SRT before. I don't know anything for SURE, but I, personally, would be willing to bet more than a few bucks that it will not be rated at 500hp, but rather will be 525hp. I've also heard it is a bit under-rated at that, maybe even moreso than existing Vipers are, and it should respond VERY well to exhaust mods - even better than your 97 GTS would/did. I hope a free flowing exhaust and the standard K&N's and smoothies (if they are still needed) will get us an honest 500 to the wheels, and I think it will. I think that bone stock cars will be making in the 470 range to the wheels... BUT! we shall see

I'm honestly hoping to run a 10.something in this car bone stock, with only slicks/skinnies (hell, maybe even on drag radials!). I dunno if that will happen, but I am counting on an 11.5 bone stock - so Dodge better not let me down! hehe...

 

[onerareviper]

Viperholics,

It looks like my Silver/Blue 1998 GTS is really going to hold its value. Part of me wanted the new Viper to be 'Stunning', and the other part wanted it to be S8000 wanna-be styling. I guess it was an internal struggle - 1.) Awesome new Viper and watch mine depreciate, or 2.) so-so new Viper while mine remains extremely desirable. Looks like #2 is a winner. I will judge for myself in Detriot this weekend.

Later

 

[treynor]

FWIW, I have an RT/10 and don't much care for the looks of the SRT-10 from what I've seen in the pictures. In fact, if memory serves I was the very first person to post comments on this board after the pictures were posted, and I said something along the lines of "looks like a cross between a camaro and an S2000", and unfortunately I still stand by that statement. I'm sad to hear that those who've seen it in person don't find it looks any better.

Ford definitely has the styling idea correct with their GT40; I actually *like* the blower on that car because it'll be easier to modify

 

[Venom Lover]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by treynor:

Ford definitely has the styling idea correct with their GT40; I actually *like* the blower on that car because it'll be easier to modify

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmmm, interesting observation, Ben!

 

[nutsRT]

I don't know which was more disappointing the new NSX or Viper. I expected the new NSX to be more profound but it looked like the old model with the exception of some front end/head lights changes. Still the same engine..
The Viper looked good but didn't compel me to be the first on the block to have one.
Looked at the new Saleen S281E 425Hp and a $75K price tag if I had to choose...