Legality of Vipers in commercial products...

[pj]

The thread below had me wondering - at one time we looked at doing something similiar, but we were told by our attorney that we would need the permission of Dodge before we could sell products with images of the Dodge Viper in it.

Which makes me wonder - was that good advise? Can we put out calendars, posters and other stuff of, say, the EBT Girls and our Vipers (or any of our other cars) and not need to get permission of the manufacturer?

Where does the line get drawn? Our attorney felt that commercial use of the product was the key.

 

[VOI9 ASP]

My understanding is that you need permission from Dodge to sell anything with the Viper logo material. They allow the Viper Clubs to use most of the Viper images and logo's for raising funds for the local Viper club - not for personal profit. I believe for that you must obtain a licensed from Dodge.

Call Fiona at 1-800-=998-1110. She should be able to direct you to the person with the answers.

 

[slaughterj]

The problem that you're dealing with is the trademark (more specifically, trade dress) owned by Dodge. When you use someone's trademark (or product trade dress) in association with your goods, you can run afoul of suggesting an association with, or sponsorship or approval by, the trademark owner, which violates their trademark rights. You'll need to be careful how you present the products of others with your own - to be safest, of course, permission from Dodge and other car manufacturers would be the best. There have been a number of lawsuits between auto manufacturers and auto-related products, such as for car care (I think Porsche was one of the big suit litigants). I do wonder if Taco Bell got Dodge's permission for their "zesty" commercial use of a viper, but of course, big companies more readily deal with one another than little guys. The extent to which you portray the product of another may affect whether a court would consider it to infringe their trademark rights (or whether a company would bother with you). For instance, the presentation of more than one auto companies' cars will lessen that, but no guarantees. You definitely would want to get a formal opinion put together by an intellectual property attorney to both outline what you can and can't do, and to show that you are trying to respect the rights of others if something did arise. Also, the use of logos is to be avoided or get permission.

Slaughter, Esq.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Why is it lawyers never give straight answers?

You must be registered for see images

 

[pj]

I would agree that using the actual Viper logo could be a trademark problem. I would also see an issue if I were using the Viper image to promote another product (i.e. car wax).

But what about Posters and Calendars?

You must be registered for see images

For example, if I took this picture and sold it as a poster with an EBT logo on it, would that require permission?

An important legal case was made when a photographer took a picture of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame building. He sold the posters, but the owners sued him claiming that the photographer needed permission and would have to pay a royality. The courts disagreed and said a public building does not warrent any form of protection under copyright or trademark law (or any other laws) from being photographed and sold.

I wonder if the same case could be made about a car.

 

[slaughterj]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck 98 RT/10:
Why is it lawyers never give straight answers?

You must be registered for see images

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because there aren't any

You must be registered for see images

 

[slaughterj]

I recall some case about intellectual property rights and a building, may be the same one you're talking about. But in this case, aren't you promoting EBT with your products?

 

[pj]

I guess that depends on your point of view... If I put a URL on the poster, then I would be promoting the website... (The website itself is a free site that promotes the team - can a distinction be made there?)

So, if I'm following you, maybe the distinction lies in the "use". If I put my logo on it, then there might be implied some kind of affiliation between Dodge and the EBT and that might not fly.

But, if I sell the poster with only my name on it, then I am simply selling an image that I took, so that might be acceptable under some kind of "fair use" policy.

If I put it in a calendar, as long as I am not promoting anything else in the calendar (other than the calendar itself), then maybe that would be acceptable.

So a Babes & Cars type of calendar might fall into "fair use" category, as long as its not done in a way to connect or imply a connection to another company or product.

 

[slaughterj]

I think you may be on the right track, but I haven't done any legal research on this nor do I know all the facts of your situation, thus my signature qualifier. Some use of your business name xtremebikini in places may be alright, but the extent of the use of their name, logo, or trade dress in association with yours really matters, especially depending on what the xtremebikini team does. If all you're doing is selling calendars, etc., you're probably in better shape than if you provide models for car shows, etc., which again would be the use of their rights to promote your business. Again, it's definitely worthwhile to have an attorney do formal research and draft a formal opinion with all your facts before them in order to make the proper legal determination for you.

Slaughter, Esq.

 

[Performin Norman]

I dont' know about the legality but when you have those beautiful women in the pictures, I don't even see the cars. hahaa My bad.

 

[slaughterj]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Performin Norman:
I dont' know about the legality but when you have those beautiful women in the pictures, I don't even see the cars. hahaa My bad.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Chuck wanted a straight answer and here's one: I agree with Norman!

You must be registered for see images

 

[pj]

Now that's interesting! I wonder if they had to get permission for that.

Maybe it just comes down to not making the wrong person mad or attracting the wrong kind of attention - kinda like that episode with dodgeviper.com - the guy didnt have any problems until he tried to sell it on eBay.

 

[Steve-Indy]

Have followed this thread with interest...many good points have been made. AGREE with Mr. Slaughter's early recommendation that BEST course is to retain a nationally known firm in the field of intellectual property AND media situations...PAY the money, sit back and enjoy the advice...it's FAR CHEAPER (more cost effective) in the long haul, especially if done BEFORE taking action. (as you can see from profile, I'm NOT an attorney!!!).

 

[slaughterj]

Yes, you own the photos you take, that is an issue of copyright law, not trademark law. Note that there are still limitations of photos you take, for instance, people have rights of privacy/privacy, so at least for non-public figures, you are limited to your ability to present them (not a problem if they agree, if they appear only briefly/are not central to the presentation, etc.).