Let's try to help SRT save/sell the GEN V.

[theviper]

Double post...

 

[viperbilliam]

Well, obviously quality and competence are important when making investments like this. If I think the company is going down the tubes by hiring people they can get for relatively low bucks and contracting with suppliers that really can't get the job done, no way will I touch the car with a 10 ft pole. That MT article could be speaking to an unusual and unfortunate incident, but first impressions are very powerful and to make one like that speaks to incompetence. It make one think what else can SRT not get right? I want confidence in the product I'm spending so much money on (and also very unnecessary).

On the other hand, I do like what I see so far in the Gen V but just can't afford it right now. I'll have to save a pile of money so that I can afford the payments; the new Vette, not so much because it's a lot more affordable. I do like it also but I'm willing to spend more on the Viper. That is, if the new Viper is as reliable as my Gen III was (past Vettes were not). I will stand on the sidelines again watching what the company does and what Gen V OWNERS have to say about their experiences, filtering out the nonsense one can expect to see on the web........I sincerely hope the company (CDJ/SRT) and the Viper don't die again. About those $5K stripes....$3K was a lot for them. (Yeah, I gotta have stripes but not for that and I don't want vinyl).

 

[theviper]

About those $5K stripes....$3K was a lot for them. (Yeah, I gotta have stripes but not for that and I don't want vinyl).

Besides the marketing meltdown at SRT, the prices are really quite high. I believe most of us here have always thought SRT products are some of the best value based cars available. Now, not so much. In fact, many of us think we are getting a bit "taken for a ride", no pun intended.

 

[GRANGER73]

The following definitions were approved by the American Marketing Association Board of Directors:

Marketing:
Marketing is the activity, set of institutions, and processes for creating, communicating, delivering, and exchanging offerings that have value for customers, clients, partners, and society at large. (Approved July 2013)

Marketing Research:
Marketing research is the function that links the consumer, customer, and public to the marketer through information--information used to identify and define marketing opportunities and problems; generate, refine, and evaluate marketing actions; monitor marketing performance; and improve understanding of marketing as a process. Marketing research specifies the information required to address these issues, designs the method for collecting information, manages and implements the data collection process, analyzes the results, and communicates the findings and their implications.

I think it is the lack of proper market research on SRT's part. Don't know if Beth is responsible for that critical element, but clearly this is where they've come up short. IMHO

 

[theviper]

The following definitions were approved by the American Marketing Association Board of Directors:

Marketing:
Marketing is the activity, set of institutions, and processes for creating, communicating, delivering, and exchanging offerings that have value for customers, clients, partners, and society at large. (Approved July 2013)

Marketing Research:
Marketing research is the function that links the consumer, customer, and public to the marketer through information--information used to identify and define marketing opportunities and problems; generate, refine, and evaluate marketing actions; monitor marketing performance; and improve understanding of marketing as a process. Marketing research specifies the information required to address these issues, designs the method for collecting information, manages and implements the data collection process, analyzes the results, and communicates the findings and their implications.

I think it is the lack of proper market research on SRT's part. Don't know if Beth is responsible for that critical element, but clearly this is where they've come up short. IMHO

Marketing is based on market research. So if either is flawed, the result is disastrous. In either case, I know SRT did their own market research and was presented third party research. SRT did their own marketing (or lack thereof) and was presented marketing plans from third party vendors. They thought (and probably still do think) that the third party vendors got it wrong. SRT was obviously wrong. At the end of the day, the director of marketing has to take the blame. That would be Beth. Simple research on her qualifications, experience, credentials, and Viper passion would lead anyone to ask the question "how the heck did she get the job?!"

 

[ACRucrazy]

Does the Viper need "saving"?

 

[Voodoo Rob]

Does the Viper need "saving"?

Elaborate further please?

 

[ACRucrazy]

"Let's try to help SRT save the Gen V"

What needs to be saved?

 

[FikseGTS]

modern dual clutch transmission would do it for me... a smaller lighter twin turbo engine with lots of low torque would be a plus, but probably too much to ask for...

 

[Tiago]

modern dual clutch transmission would do it for me... a smaller lighter twin turbo engine with lots of low torque would be a plus, but probably too much to ask for...

I agree, for the money, it should have a DCT for sure. Get with the times.

 

[theviper]

modern dual clutch transmission would do it for me... a smaller lighter twin turbo engine with lots of low torque would be a plus, but probably too much to ask for...

I know SRT was given that option too. Decided against that too...for all their lineup! One excuse was "Our buyers aren't looking for better gas mileage so we're only considering supercharging". Brilliant, huh?

 

[hammerofgods]

I agree, for the money, it should have a DCT for sure. Get with the times.

Or at least offer it as an option, in lieu of 14k paint job. Pretty puzzling it is not available in TA version, the current equivalent of ACR.

 

[hammerofgods]

I know SRT was given that option too. Decided against that too...for all their lineup! One excuse was "Our buyers aren't looking for better gas mileage so we're only considering supercharging". Brilliant, huh?

Supercharging requires considerably less R&D than modern turbo. DI twin turbo Viper with optional DCT in conjunction with lightweight unichassis and/or CF tub could turn Viper into modern supercar. These developments could be used to develop lower models to amortize the initial capital investment. Too bad Chrysler does not think along the lines of thinking like yours and very few others in this place.

 

[FikseGTS]

the upcoming Z07 is rumored to have both, DCT and smaller V8 Twin Turbo....

Supercharging requires considerably less R&D than modern turbo. DI twin turbo Viper with optional DCT in conjunction with lightweight unichassis and/or CF tub could turn Viper into modern supercar. These developments could be used to develop lower models to amortize the initial capital investment. Too bad Chrysler does not think along the lines of thinking like yours and very few others in this place.

 

[Bobpantax]

That would make sense based on the new engine being heavily advertised by Caddy that is a twin turbo producing 400 plus HP. It is the "blow your doors off" commercial. GM clearly has the technology.

the upcoming Z07 is rumored to have both, DCT and smaller V8 Twin Turbo....

 

[hammerofgods]

the upcoming Z07 is rumored to have both, DCT and smaller V8 Twin Turbo....

Maybe new ZR1 will have this set up but doubtful the new Z06 will, unless GM decides to go with just one hi po Corvette in the future. Retaining V10 in Viper may be a smart thing to do since it sets this car apart from all other comparable US cars. A smaller displacement twin turbo V10 would retain Viper own identity. Unfortunately Viper is bogged down by very outdated and inefficient drivetrain and relatively heavy and prone to flexing frame. Alfa 4C has the technologies to improve the chassis, too bad there is no attempt to adapt these technologies to Viper platform.

 

[Nine Ball]

Unfortunately Viper is bogged down by very outdated and inefficient drivetrain and relatively heavy and prone to flexing frame. Alfa 4C has the technologies to improve the chassis, too bad there is no attempt to adapt these technologies to Viper platform.

Again, you are showing you have no knowledge of the Gen V Viper. This car is the stiffest chassis car I've driven, far less flex than any Corvette I've owned. It is even stiffer than my '06 Viper, which was already stiffer than the C6's I've owned. The SRT track pack is also not very heavy at all, my raceweight on Friday was 3505 lbs with 3/4 tank of fuel, and I weigh 190 lbs.

So no, the chassis isn't flexible, and the car isn't "relatively" heavy, either. Those are two things that aren't bad about the Viper. Could things be better? Sure, but there is a cost associated with that. And people are already complaining about price.

 

[ViperSmith]

Again, you are showing you have no knowledge of the Gen V Viper. This car is the stiffest chassis car I've driven, far less flex than any Corvette I've owned. It is even stiffer than my '06 Viper, which was already stiffer than the C6's I've owned. The SRT track pack is also not very heavy at all, my raceweight on Friday was 3505 lbs with 3/4 tank of fuel, and I weigh 190 lbs.

So no, the chassis isn't flexible, and the car isn't "relatively" heavy, either. Those are two things that aren't bad about the Viper. Could things be better? Sure, but there is a cost associated with that. And people are already complaining about price.

LOL his complete ignorance comes through again.

This car is unbelievably stiff. I've pulled into a steep drive way and had the wheel come off the ground due to the rigidity of the frame.

I am glad posting on the Internet requires absolutely no reference point.

 

[hammerofgods]

Again, you are showing you have no knowledge of the Gen V Viper. This car is the stiffest chassis car I've driven, far less flex than any Corvette I've owned. It is even stiffer than my '06 Viper, which was already stiffer than the C6's I've owned. The SRT track pack is also not very heavy at all, my raceweight on Friday was 3505 lbs with 3/4 tank of fuel, and I weigh 190 lbs.

So no, the chassis isn't flexible, and the car isn't "relatively" heavy, either. Those are two things that aren't bad about the Viper. Could things be better? Sure, but there is a cost associated with that. And people are already complaining about price.

Do you have actual numbers to support your claims? What is torsional rigidity of new Viper frame? No doubt that lack of torsional rigidity is at least partially responsible for new Corvette scoring higher skid pad numbers than Viper, while riding on narrower tires.

Also, are you saying that hydroformed aluminum spaceframe and CF tub would not reduce the weight of the car? To my knowledge, your car lists curb weight as 3297 lbs while GTS with track pack, weighs in at 3374 and is most likely more comparable to last generation ZR1 weighing in at 3333 lbs. As I stated, Viper is "relatively" heavy, meaning it could be noticeably lighter if better technologies were employed. Then, that small power increase could make a big difference.

 

[hammerofgods]

Well good, then you also can explain new Corvette higher skid pad numbers over new Viper?

LOL his complete ignorance comes through again.

This car is unbelievably stiff. I've pulled into a steep drive way and had the wheel come off the ground due to the rigidity of the frame.

I am glad posting on the Internet requires absolutely no reference point.

 

[Nine Ball]

Do you have actual numbers to support your claims? What is torsional rigidity of new Viper frame? No doubt that lack of torsional rigidity is at least partially responsible for new Corvette scoring higher skid pad numbers than Viper, while riding on narrower tires.

Also, are you saying that hydroformed aluminum spaceframe and CF tub would not reduce the weight of the car? To my knowledge, your car lists curb weight as 3297 lbs while GTS with track pack, weighs in at 3374 and is most likely more comparable to last generation ZR1 weighing in at 3333 lbs. As I stated, Viper is "relatively" heavy, meaning it could be noticeably lighter if better technologies were employed. Then, that small power increase could make a big difference.

Actual data, in the form of a who's best comparison list, doesn't exist. So, your claims of the Viper being flimsy are also not justified. I can tell by having owned/driven the Viper vs the Z06, since I owned them at the same time. The C6Z06 would flex and make squeaks, and slightly twist when going into my steep driveway at the time. The Viper would lift a tire off of the ground. Same thing when jacking up one wheel, the Viper usually ends up with two wheels on the same side off the ground, when jacked near one of the wheels. The 2013 is claimed to be 50% stiffer than the previous Gen, which was already stiff.

Aluminum is lighter. It isn't stiffer than steel. CF is nice, but expensive. If people aren't buying $101K Vipers, they won't buy $200K Vipers.

Here is a response from an SRT engineer, regarding stiffness: http://forums.viperclub.org/threads...13-srT-Viper?p=3173134&viewfull=1#post3173134

Quit trying so hard to discredit the new Viper. Have you even driven one? Have you even seen one in person? What do you actually drive?

 

[hammerofgods]

There you go, "the actual data does not exist". The question is WHY? The answer is not very complicated, considering the design of the "new" frame and the presence of the cross brace. If you and few others were not so defensive, you would realize that I would like to have the car IMPROVED, not discredited. Improvements to this car would benefit everyone, including you.

Actual data, in the form of a who's best comparison list, doesn't exist. So, your claims of the Viper being flimsy are also not justified. I can tell by having owned/driven the Viper vs the Z06, since I owned them at the same time. The C6Z06 would flex and make squeaks, and slightly twist when going into my steep driveway at the time. The Viper would lift a tire off of the ground. Same thing when jacking up one wheel, the Viper usually ends up with two wheels on the same side off the ground, when jacked near one of the wheels. The 2013 is claimed to be 50% stiffer than the previous Gen, which was already stiff.

Aluminum is lighter. It isn't stiffer than steel. CF is nice, but expensive. If people aren't buying $101K Vipers, they won't buy $200K Vipers.

Here is a response from an SRT engineer, regarding stiffness: http://forums.viperclub.org/threads...13-srT-Viper?p=3173134&viewfull=1#post3173134

Quit trying so hard to discredit the new Viper. Have you even driven one? Have you even seen one in person? What do you actually drive?