Lookin' for a judged show down!!

[Johnny GTS]

Happy Memorial Day weekend to all-it sure snuck-up on us!! HEY, does anyone know of any "PROPERLY JUDGED" car shows on Long Island for us lucky Viper owners? Don't get me wrong, I'm not much of a snob, I've enjoyed all aspects of the collector car hobby for a very long time and I do support the charitable events, I even respect whatever you choose to drive or show. I know it's supposed to be fun and most of the time it is. We're fortunate enough to be driving Vipers that's SPECIAL, you know what i'm talkin' about!! A seriously judged show can be fun as well (even without a trophy) Besides, how can we improve and correct our vehicles imperfections if we don't realize what they are. Thanks for any info

 

[FrankBarba]

Properly Judged Vipers will not happen until the AACA recognizes the Viper. that will be when it reaches 25 years old.
Before that you should contact a person on the north west that we can not mention here on the site, i would call him a
viper guru, as would others. Maurice in Norther California would be another person to pick his brains.

Or take your viper. Learn as much about it as you can. Learn the different options, colors that were offered (you will need documentation for anything that someone might deem as wrong). Take it apart, document all the part numbers, date codes, ect..ect..

 

[Matt M PA]

I've taken a couple cars though the AACA judging, with my current car, a 1972 Plymouth having reached the highest level attainable in the AACA...Grand National Senior. It was also nominated twice for a national award. The same car also scored 97.5 points of a possible 100 at the All Chrysler Nationals at Carlisle in the SME. I should also add that the car also won best of show at the National Chrysler Products Club national meet.

That all being said, do NOT expect the AACA judges to know all the "ins and outs" of Vipers. They do not judge on the same level as you would find at a Mopar specific show. For example, they allow cars with any color available for that year and model...regardless of whether or not it was that particular car's original color. They simply judge too many makes and models to be experts in them all. The AACA also limits the time a team can spend on a car...so you wouldn't expect a long, detailed look.

At a Mopar show, they may decode a cars data plate to ensure that it is "as built". My quest for attention to detail goes all the way to hand dated heater hoses, correctly dated spark plug wires...I could go on and on. The point is, the Mopar folks look for these Chrysler specific details...but the AACA does not. When my car was judged in the SME, two different judges looked at the car, independently. Either one studied the car for 20 minutes.

I was the head judge for the NCPC for many years...I even helped write the Plymouth Superbird judging manual, so I'm more than familiar with judging.. Its not often that car owners are interested in an honest critique of their car. I've shown my Vipers at local shows for many years and I always just compliment other Viper folks about their car. I've seen gen 1 Vipers with gen 2 wheels...and the owner actually mentioned to me how rare it was. (Rare indeed...none were built that way) it would be refreshing to find someone willing to learn more about their cars.

 

[daveg]

I've taken a couple cars though the AACA judging, with my current car, a 1972 Plymouth having reached the highest level attainable in the AACA...Grand National Senior. It was also nominated twice for a national award. The same car also scored 97.5 points of a possible 100 at the All Chrysler Nationals at Carlisle in the SME. I should also add that the car also won best of show at the National Chrysler Products Club national meet.

That all being said, do NOT expect the AACA judges to know all the "ins and outs" of Vipers. They do not judge on the same level as you would find at a Mopar specific show. For example, they allow cars with any color available for that year and model...regardless of whether or not it was that particular car's original color. They simply judge too many makes and models to be experts in them all. The AACA also limits the time a team can spend on a car...so you wouldn't expect a long, detailed look.

At a Mopar show, they may decode a cars data plate to ensure that it is "as built". My quest for attention to detail goes all the way to hand dated heater hoses, correctly dated spark plug wires...I could go on and on. The point is, the Mopar folks look for these Chrysler specific details...but the AACA does not. When my car was judged in the SME, two different judges looked at the car, independently. Either one studied the car for 20 minutes.

I was the head judge for the NCPC for many years...I even helped write the Plymouth Superbird judging manual, so I'm more than familiar with judging.. Its not often that car owners are interested in an honest critique of their car. I've shown my Vipers at local shows for many years and I always just compliment other Viper folks about their car. I've seen gen 1 Vipers with gen 2 wheels...and the owner actually mentioned to me how rare it was. (Rare indeed...none were built that way) it would be refreshing to find someone willing to learn more about their cars.

Does this mean you keep your Viper totally stock as well?

 

[Matt M PA]

Daveg....pretty much stock, yes. Both have shirt throw adapters for the shifters and smooth intake hoses. The 2000 GTS I bought new has a few little things..like a painted hood pad and a modified airbox...but I also have stock pieces to put it back. I'm just not interested in modifying the Vipers much....to each their own.

When I got involved in restoration...I was very interested in getting as close to original condition as possible. Back then, it was much more difficult as parts were harder to get and reproduction parts were just starting out. I made my own stamps to correctly mark hoses, etc..

I take my Vipers to some cruise nights and local shows...but I'm not currently planning to go throught the AACA with them. I started showing cars almost 25 years ago with my then Superbird. Time will tell, and I have plenty of time before these cars are 25.

Back to the AACA. They'd be more concerned about cleanliness and detail...and looking for unoriginal equipment. In the era of my Plymouth, they allow high gloss black paint under the hoods of GM and Ford cars. (My a body should be..and is body color.) They consider this "over restoration" and do not deduct for this. I would consider this...when flat black should be there...incorrect. At a GM or Ford show, it would be a point deduction. The AACA would deduct for a aftermarket battery. The final point about the AACA is that they don't recognize modified cars. They are looking for original, or restored to original.

Overall, the AACA does a great job in promoting the hobby. While it sounds like I'm bashing their judging...it's not meant that way. An AACA badge is a recognized standard and you can expect that a car with AACA accreditation is a well restored car. The AACA also does a great job in continuing the hobby. Unlike some clubs...they recognize any car once it's 25 years old.

 

[Johnny GTS]

Thanks, so much for the great info, I certainly have some things to look into. You know what really suprises me is how many people know very little about the Viper. At local shows it attracts much attention, however during conversations it turns into more of a history lesson, I guess it's to be expected, I very rarely see any Vipers on the road or In any local shows.

 

[daveg]

Well good luck with your cars Matt and its refreshing to see someone else with the same beliefs as myself. We are somewhat of a rarity!

 

[Matt M PA]

JohnnyGTS...you are correct that many do not know much about Vipers. In fact, I've found many owners that aren't that informed about what was original, etc. I've seen a Gen1 at local shows with the polished '96-'98 GTS wheels. The owner...who's a nice guy...has told me more than once how rare it is that this car was equipped with these "optional" wheels. I don't have the heart to tell him that those wheels weren't even around the year his car was built.

 

[Johnny GTS]

Hi Matt M, PA - I appreciate the feedback, I hear what you're saying, been in that situation, sometimes I feel that we should try to educate for the good of the car collector hobby, I guess we Viper owners are too smart to hurt one another's feelings! Check this, I recently received two invitations to local shows previously attended, nice guy, but he only wants my Viper in the show to attract attention (I found that out last year) I really don't mind the attention it just goes to show how rare these vehicles are, I've only seen one ,(it was a 94) in all the time I've been involved. The other show, same thing inexperienced judges, they asked me to be a judge , which I did, I ended up showing some of these guys the common sense basics of evaluating a "Show Car", It didn't matter , the locals get their trophies no matter what. Hey, it's all for fun but still frustrating at times. Later On!