Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
What "spinning part?" I was stuck on the "2 girls doing a non-stop presentation."
Losing Interest
- Thread starter Milksnake
- Start date
What "spinning part?" I was stuck on the "2 girls doing a non-stop presentation."
viper GTS-R
Enthusiast
JOE!! COME ON MAN!! ARGH AT LEAST TELL US WHEN!!! 
Casey
Enthusiast
At least Heffner hasn't lost interest in Vipers!! 
I hope DC hasn't lost interest, but it's hard to believe they couldn't make the Viper Presentation at the autoshow a little nicer.
On the other hand GM will be trying to sell 40000 Vettes a year is possible!
I hope DC hasn't lost interest, but it's hard to believe they couldn't make the Viper Presentation at the autoshow a little nicer.
On the other hand GM will be trying to sell 40000 Vettes a year is possible!
Kai SRT10
Enthusiast
Personally, I don't care. I own one Viper. That's enough for me. I'm not buying another Viper unless I crash the one I own now. Likewise, I love the Viper I have now. That's not going to change, whether or not Chevy brings out a 700hp Z06 or DC brings out a 700hp supercar Viper.
I've pretty much already lost interest in what DC does with the Viper down the road, so I don't care if DC also loses interest.
I've pretty much already lost interest in what DC does with the Viper down the road, so I don't care if DC also loses interest.
agentf1
Enthusiast
No coupe at the Phila show and the SRT 10 looked terrible, it had water spots etched into the paint and looked like it was a used car or sat on a lot for a while.
DSR207
Enthusiast
QUOTE : " Personally, I don't care. I own one Viper. That's enough for me. I'm not buying another Viper unless I crash the one I own now. Likewise, I love the Viper I have now. That's not going to change, whether or not Chevy brings out a 700hp Z06 or DC brings out a 700hp supercar Viper." DITTO
I hate to say this but at the LA Auto Show, I was standing there checking out the coupe with one other guy just looking curiosly. Lots of people mobbing all the other Dodge products, even the, I'm sorry but LAME so called Charger. The Z-06 had plenty of people around it. I believe Dodge realizes that Chevrolet finally got them this year, and they don't want a bunch of fan fare about a car that most likely will play second fiddle to the Z-06 for more money.
I'll never get rid of my ACR but I would be much more likely to buy the Z-06 over the new Viper Coupe. I don't like the looks of either car, but titanium, carbon fiber and a 427 with 7100rpm limit is just awesome.
I'll never get rid of my ACR but I would be much more likely to buy the Z-06 over the new Viper Coupe. I don't like the looks of either car, but titanium, carbon fiber and a 427 with 7100rpm limit is just awesome.
Snakester
Enthusiast
I'm still quietly hoping that before the C6 Z06 hits production that D/C will announce a lighter weight, 625HP+, ACR model Viper with Moton shocks, as a $10K package.
They set our expectations with the carbon fiber body panel SEMA show car (billed as an ACR model), and even if the car came out a year from now, seeing a concept/prototype model before the Z06 hits production would show that D/C is serious about the Viper.
You can say that we shouldn't care about the Z06, but similarly the Ford GT should not have been bothered by the SRT-10 Viper. And yet after the first road tests showed similar performance to the SRT-10, they silently added 100HP+ to the Ford GT, and it's now tested against the $450K Porsche CGT, and $660K Enzo, as opposed to the $85K Viper, and Corvette.
The Viper already offers comparable handling and braking capabilities as supercars like the Enzo, but it needs a power boost to get compared to the Ford GT, CGT, Enzo and be seen as an outstanding relative bargain at less than $100K, as opposed to an expensive alternative to the Z06.
They set our expectations with the carbon fiber body panel SEMA show car (billed as an ACR model), and even if the car came out a year from now, seeing a concept/prototype model before the Z06 hits production would show that D/C is serious about the Viper.
You can say that we shouldn't care about the Z06, but similarly the Ford GT should not have been bothered by the SRT-10 Viper. And yet after the first road tests showed similar performance to the SRT-10, they silently added 100HP+ to the Ford GT, and it's now tested against the $450K Porsche CGT, and $660K Enzo, as opposed to the $85K Viper, and Corvette.
The Viper already offers comparable handling and braking capabilities as supercars like the Enzo, but it needs a power boost to get compared to the Ford GT, CGT, Enzo and be seen as an outstanding relative bargain at less than $100K, as opposed to an expensive alternative to the Z06.
MAVERICK
Viper Owner
"The Viper already offers comparable handling and braking capabilities as supercars like the Enzo, but it needs a power boost to get compared to the Ford GT, CGT, Enzo and be seen as an outstanding relative bargain at less than $100K, as opposed to an expensive alternative to the Z06."
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Dodge dealers (at least mine) make that power boost very simple to attain by offering it at time of purchase... for barely over $100k which they roll into the purchase price you can get up to 700 hp ....
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Dodge dealers (at least mine) make that power boost very simple to attain by offering it at time of purchase... for barely over $100k which they roll into the purchase price you can get up to 700 hp ....
ViperInBlack
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Does it not come down to three factions:
a. The group that has their Vipers with no plans to trade their current Viper and will not be dissuaded from loving the car.
b. The group who bought the Viper and feel the lack of response to the release of some other brand car is a deep threat to them.
c. The group that will buy/trade within available Vipers, and the existence of some other vehicle is meaningless.
d. The undecideds who are trying to make a choice between two entirely different vehicles.
This dialogue and comparison/contrasts, regardless of the information imparted by any of the four, will not impact the decision of the remaining three groups.
The simple solution would appear to be:
1. Drive and enjoy your Viper and buy another if you wish
2. Get rid of your Viper and buy something else if you wish
3. Accept that you will be unsuccessful in getting others to change their minds.
Alice
a. The group that has their Vipers with no plans to trade their current Viper and will not be dissuaded from loving the car.
b. The group who bought the Viper and feel the lack of response to the release of some other brand car is a deep threat to them.
c. The group that will buy/trade within available Vipers, and the existence of some other vehicle is meaningless.
d. The undecideds who are trying to make a choice between two entirely different vehicles.
This dialogue and comparison/contrasts, regardless of the information imparted by any of the four, will not impact the decision of the remaining three groups.
The simple solution would appear to be:
1. Drive and enjoy your Viper and buy another if you wish
2. Get rid of your Viper and buy something else if you wish
3. Accept that you will be unsuccessful in getting others to change their minds.
Alice
Bwright
Enthusiast
Barring a remarkable change of events, the facts around the Viper's "business case" are such that I do not see how it is technically possible for the Viper to survive beyond 2012 at the outside. The current quiet stopgap measures to prolong the car's survival will only be superficially successful. Like the Titanic after the iceberg it is now not a question of if but merely a matter of when. I for one will miss it when it is gone.
DSR207
Enthusiast
Quote: "And yet after the first road tests showed similar performance to the SRT-10, they silently added 100HP+ to the Ford GT,"
They supercharged it to get the HP.
Alice...I tried to use your # 1 solution:
1. Drive and enjoy your Viper and buy another if you wish.
But found my self also attracted to solution # 3:
3. Accept that you will be unsuccessful in getting others to change their minds.
So is it OK with you to add one more solution and make it 1+3 or simply 4 ? please
They supercharged it to get the HP.
Alice...I tried to use your # 1 solution:
1. Drive and enjoy your Viper and buy another if you wish.
But found my self also attracted to solution # 3:
3. Accept that you will be unsuccessful in getting others to change their minds.
So is it OK with you to add one more solution and make it 1+3 or simply 4 ? please
ViperInBlack
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Mike:
You are, of course, correct. There are many of us for whom another brand vehicle is simply not a consideration. We like what we own and plan to buy other Vipers in the future.
The important point is that there is no "right" and "wrong." If you want that other car, you should get it. You are allowed to be displeased with your SRT-10.
While this discussion, which re-surfaces as fast as it disappears, will unquestionably continue ad infinitum. But...we are all grown up, working and can buy whatever car we please. No one is likely to persuade us one way or the other.
The Coupe is what the Coupe is. That other car appeals to some people and not others. Future developments will come from the Viper group; the needs of some will be met by that evolution...the needs of others will not.
Viper is a matter of individual choice...thank God for America.
Alice
You are, of course, correct. There are many of us for whom another brand vehicle is simply not a consideration. We like what we own and plan to buy other Vipers in the future.
The important point is that there is no "right" and "wrong." If you want that other car, you should get it. You are allowed to be displeased with your SRT-10.
While this discussion, which re-surfaces as fast as it disappears, will unquestionably continue ad infinitum. But...we are all grown up, working and can buy whatever car we please. No one is likely to persuade us one way or the other.
The Coupe is what the Coupe is. That other car appeals to some people and not others. Future developments will come from the Viper group; the needs of some will be met by that evolution...the needs of others will not.
Viper is a matter of individual choice...thank God for America.
Alice
Y2K5SRT
Enthusiast
In one of those ultra-rare instances, I suspect Alice may have missed the mark by just a tad: While you certainly have the three factions as listed below, you have a fourth that is much larger, more vocal, and often less objective. That group includes many Viper owners, including this one. That group description? Diehard Viper fans. Let me give you an analogy that I think demonstrates what makes this fourth group such a HUGE part of Viper lore:
In a nutshell, think of the Viper as your favorite sports team. You stick with them through thick and through thin, and bask in the glory of their success. Even though you personally don't contribute one solitary thing towards that success but your devotion. Your team dominates the sport for many years, with a couple other contenders that can never quite knock them off. Suddenly one of those contenders adds a few all-stars and you just might lose a game to them. Do you like your team any less (#1 below)? Nope. Do you feel threatened that your team's owner didn't sign several all-stars right away (#2)? No again. Do you ignore the other teams completely and pretend that they don't exist and that you will always be King of the Hill (#3)? Nope. Do you suddenly switch sides and choose the other team (#4)? Of course not.
No, if you are a diehard fan you will support your team and won't be shy about offering suggestions and/or criticisms about how to improve it. Just because you are at a game and criticize one of your own players, that doesn't mean that you don't like your team. Likewise, the chances the owner will hear you and act on your beer-inspired tirade are slim to none. Yet that doesn't make you any less of a fan or your opinion any less important.
Those of us that have always been huge Viper fans want what is best for the Viper team. The continued success of that team reflects well on EVERY generation, whether it be the '93 or the '03. Just because we want to stay on top of the pile doesn't mean we like our current team any less or that we want to switch sides to the Chebbie team. So don't mistake our enthusiasm and resulting criticism for anything else: We want our team to win and will be vocal about how we think they can do it - right or wrong.
In a nutshell, think of the Viper as your favorite sports team. You stick with them through thick and through thin, and bask in the glory of their success. Even though you personally don't contribute one solitary thing towards that success but your devotion. Your team dominates the sport for many years, with a couple other contenders that can never quite knock them off. Suddenly one of those contenders adds a few all-stars and you just might lose a game to them. Do you like your team any less (#1 below)? Nope. Do you feel threatened that your team's owner didn't sign several all-stars right away (#2)? No again. Do you ignore the other teams completely and pretend that they don't exist and that you will always be King of the Hill (#3)? Nope. Do you suddenly switch sides and choose the other team (#4)? Of course not.
No, if you are a diehard fan you will support your team and won't be shy about offering suggestions and/or criticisms about how to improve it. Just because you are at a game and criticize one of your own players, that doesn't mean that you don't like your team. Likewise, the chances the owner will hear you and act on your beer-inspired tirade are slim to none. Yet that doesn't make you any less of a fan or your opinion any less important.
Those of us that have always been huge Viper fans want what is best for the Viper team. The continued success of that team reflects well on EVERY generation, whether it be the '93 or the '03. Just because we want to stay on top of the pile doesn't mean we like our current team any less or that we want to switch sides to the Chebbie team. So don't mistake our enthusiasm and resulting criticism for anything else: We want our team to win and will be vocal about how we think they can do it - right or wrong.
ViperInBlack
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Chris:
Hmmm, I see, and respect, what you are saying, and I believe my statement was in the interrogatory, to wit "Does it not come down to three factors" (implied "?").
Using your analogy, if the team topples after >decade of winning its divisional title (Eg. Atlanta Braves), then you look for solutions:
a. The often referenced, factory endorsed, aftermarket kit to tide one over until there is a new car
b. An assessment as to whether the team brings more than victories to the fans (Eg. does it create revenue so that the team may continue to even exist?)
c. Is loss a bad thing?
1. I maintain that loss (Atlanta Braves or Dodge Viper) is not inherently bad since it forces those in control to reassess whether they have been approaching the challenge in the most efficacious fashion. Loss can be a powerful wake-up call.
2. Lutz moving to Chebbie was not a governmental secret; it was apparently not deemed a serious threat. However, it was. Or was it not to D-C because this type of winning is not in their game plan any longer. Question, not a statement or hypothesis.
3. Does loss of racing supremecy spell the end of the Viper? If so, it can be assumed that the factory may no longer be valuing that capacity; the trickle down economic effect as to whether a winning Viper sells other Dodge cars. I do not know those statistics. I do know that the Viper made me as an individual look at the rest of their line. However, it did not make me buy.
4. Many teams lose for several years before making a comeback, but fans remain (frustrated but) loyal.
What I was attempting to convey is that this discussion is, has been, and would always be academic. There are some who would jump ship, some who would hang in there, and some who never bought the Viper for racing supremecy...they simply enjoyed owning/driving it. Another VCA Member made reference to that yesterday. i.e. "could not care less; I like my car regardless of what Chebby builds." Amen to that.
I do not know whether a German born executive can move to America during adulthood and find meaning in an American Muscle Car. The Japanese can, the British can, the Dutch can, the Austrian can...but perhaps selling Viper Racing to German engineers and designers as well as their bead counters is not all that viable.
Time will tell.
Thanks for the discussion.
Alice
Hmmm, I see, and respect, what you are saying, and I believe my statement was in the interrogatory, to wit "Does it not come down to three factors" (implied "?").
Using your analogy, if the team topples after >decade of winning its divisional title (Eg. Atlanta Braves), then you look for solutions:
a. The often referenced, factory endorsed, aftermarket kit to tide one over until there is a new car
b. An assessment as to whether the team brings more than victories to the fans (Eg. does it create revenue so that the team may continue to even exist?)
c. Is loss a bad thing?
1. I maintain that loss (Atlanta Braves or Dodge Viper) is not inherently bad since it forces those in control to reassess whether they have been approaching the challenge in the most efficacious fashion. Loss can be a powerful wake-up call.
2. Lutz moving to Chebbie was not a governmental secret; it was apparently not deemed a serious threat. However, it was. Or was it not to D-C because this type of winning is not in their game plan any longer. Question, not a statement or hypothesis.
3. Does loss of racing supremecy spell the end of the Viper? If so, it can be assumed that the factory may no longer be valuing that capacity; the trickle down economic effect as to whether a winning Viper sells other Dodge cars. I do not know those statistics. I do know that the Viper made me as an individual look at the rest of their line. However, it did not make me buy.
4. Many teams lose for several years before making a comeback, but fans remain (frustrated but) loyal.
What I was attempting to convey is that this discussion is, has been, and would always be academic. There are some who would jump ship, some who would hang in there, and some who never bought the Viper for racing supremecy...they simply enjoyed owning/driving it. Another VCA Member made reference to that yesterday. i.e. "could not care less; I like my car regardless of what Chebby builds." Amen to that.
I do not know whether a German born executive can move to America during adulthood and find meaning in an American Muscle Car. The Japanese can, the British can, the Dutch can, the Austrian can...but perhaps selling Viper Racing to German engineers and designers as well as their bead counters is not all that viable.
Time will tell.
Thanks for the discussion.
Alice
Steve Ferguson
Enthusiast
This thread should be saved and shown at VOI 25!
Viper is still considered the vehicle that saved Chrysler, so don't worry about it going away. And who ever said this was a great thread is so right on! It was actually a pleasure to read this.
Viper is still considered the vehicle that saved Chrysler, so don't worry about it going away. And who ever said this was a great thread is so right on! It was actually a pleasure to read this.
DSR207
Enthusiast
Way to go Alice 
.... even sport lingo didn't faze you. It bored some to sleep, quote from above: "*yawn*" and gave great pleasure to others. I like Chris's # 4 solution, the diehard and after reading some of the responses would like to add one more, # 5...the not interested
.... even sport lingo didn't faze you. It bored some to sleep, quote from above: "*yawn*" and gave great pleasure to others. I like Chris's # 4 solution, the diehard and after reading some of the responses would like to add one more, # 5...the not interestedBLUESNAKE367
Enthusiast
You guys gotta give it up, Alice is right, this post is deep,real deep.....
On the E.I.B. network Rush is right.
But here on the VCA board, Alice is right.........you go girl.....
On the E.I.B. network Rush is right.
But here on the VCA board, Alice is right.........you go girl.....
Milksnake
Viper Owner
We are really happy for everyone's response, however, many of you are missing our point. We love our car and the Viper concept, we are concerned that D/C has lost interest in the Viper, as evidenced by their shoddy appearances at the car shows.
Why are you all so uptight about a new car that's AMERICAN made that will probably beat the current Viper? I suppose most of you really aren't gear heads like me. Truthfully you sound like a losing team making excuses to make yourselves feel better. Sounds alot like the Corvette Forum before the Z-06 spec's came out. I owned many Corvettes, including a C5 and they are great cars. My all time dream car was an ACR which I now own. I'm still a diehard Chevy guy even though I think most of their products stink! Do I want to get rid of my ACR to get a Z-06? NO...but I would like to have one, in addition to a Ford GT. If you really love cars you'd understand what I'm saying. The Z-06 and others only improve the breed. If it wasn't for the Viper the Corvette wouldn't be the car that it is today!
Early93Viper
Enthusiast
That has to be the best post I have ever read.
VIPR GTS
Viper Owner
The Corvette has sold thousands of units for many years, all the while the buyers realized that the Viper was a faster car. While we don't like to be in the reverse position, I would still buy a Viper over the Corvette even IF the Z06 was faster. I still like MY TEAM the best. I for one have not given up on the Viper, and I do like the Firepower and hope that it provides the team with money and technology to improve the star, Viper.
Walt McFarland
Enthusiast
I agree that this thread is a good one, and sincerely appreciate you folks "in the know" sharing information.
Maybe it's my marketing background, but I think information is a good thing--particularly when it appears that a good number of the Viper faithful are concerned about the future. A bit more information would help build excitement, commitment, and brand loyalty. A bit more information would also probably reduce early Z06 orders.
One guy's thoughts.
Maybe it's my marketing background, but I think information is a good thing--particularly when it appears that a good number of the Viper faithful are concerned about the future. A bit more information would help build excitement, commitment, and brand loyalty. A bit more information would also probably reduce early Z06 orders.
One guy's thoughts.
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