Massive GM Recall = One Good Reason to get a Viper instead of a Vette

[PeerBlock]

Seems like GM, the company that is limping along on welfare life support to this day, still can't get the job done and produce a car worth buying:

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2014/05/15/gm-recalls-27-million-more-cars/

The Vette is included in these recalls, including the newest 2013 models "if they have a problem".

How many Gen 5's were recalled? Oh that's right, none. As if we needed another reason to buy the Gen 5 over a vette.

 

[TractionControlOff]

How many Gen 5's were recalled? Oh that's right, none. As if we needed another reason to buy the Gen 5 over a vette.

If you're comparing the Gen 5 to the Vette, you have to go off C7 recalls. And the Vette is a mass produced car. Not a relevant comparison.

 

[PeerBlock]

If you're comparing the Gen 5 to the Vette, you have to go off C7 recalls. And the Vette is a mass produced car. Not a relevant comparison.

So Gen 5 - Vette comparisons are only relevant when the induced perception is that the vette is "beating" the viper? It's a safe bet that the 2014 vette is going to be recalled for being too fugly.

 

[dmann]

So Gen 5 - Vette comparisons are only relevant when the induced perception is that the vette is "beating" the viper? It's a safe bet that the 2014 vette is going to be recalled for being too fugly.

Now... That is funny!!! lol

 

[PeterMJ]

Seems like GM, the company that is limping along on welfare life support to this day, still can't get the job done and produce a car worth buying:

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2014/05/15/gm-recalls-27-million-more-cars/

The Vette is included in these recalls, including the newest 2013 models "if they have a problem".

How many Gen 5's were recalled? Oh that's right, none. As if we needed another reason to buy the Gen 5 over a vette.

2013 Corvette is the last year of previous generation, C6

 

[klamathpro]

As much as I love to bash GM, recalls are usually not the fault of the manufacturer but are caused by a parts supplier. Usually the parts that fail are parts that were poorly manufactured outside of the company. Many are Chinese made parts that go through quality changes without the auto manufacturer being notified.

 

[PeterMJ]

As much as I love to bash GM, recalls are usually not the fault of the manufacturer but are caused by a parts supplier. Usually the parts that fail are parts that were poorly manufactured outside of the company. Many are Chinese made parts that go through quality changes without the auto manufacturer being notified.

The problem may be caused by the supplier or faulty design. but in the end, it is never a supplier's fault or problem, unless the supplier is allowed to sell directly to the end buyer. GM has a crappy customer service and lacks effective quality control programs, it is a fact. All manufacturers have issues, it is how they deal with these issues that makes them or breaks them and allows customers to win lawsuits against them.

 

[PeerBlock]

Yeah, more recalls:

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/05/21/gm-recall-218000-chevy-aveo-models-fire/

As much as I love to bash GM, recalls are usually not the fault of the manufacturer but are caused by a parts supplier. Usually the parts that fail are parts that were poorly manufactured outside of the company. Many are Chinese made parts that go through quality changes without the auto manufacturer being notified.

I wouldn't go down that road of "blaming the supplier" - it was GM's responsibility to test the parts they source from third parties just as it is GM's responsibility to accept consequences for any fault that may result from an incorrectly/inadequately spec'd part. Any critical part should be manufactured in-house anyway. They're finding out the hard way that cheaper initial costs can turn out to be substantially higher total costs.

 

[PeterMJ]

Yeah, more recalls:

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/05/21/gm-recall-218000-chevy-aveo-models-fire/



I wouldn't go down that road of "blaming the supplier" - it was GM's responsibility to test the parts they source from third parties just as it is GM's responsibility to accept consequences for any fault that may result from an incorrectly/inadequately spec'd part. Any critical part should be manufactured in-house anyway. They're finding out the hard way that cheaper initial costs can turn out to be substantially higher total costs.

Yes, the newest recall makes the numbers staggering, almost seems like Barra had been set up, LOL. And completely agreed regarding testing sourced out parts, penny wise and pound foolish.

If you are real interested, you should check out the newest Stingray quality control comedy, with GM employees breaking front bumper mating surfaces on fenders and then patching them up with epoxy while making the bumpers fit on the car during assembly. You certainly cannot make up stuff like this. The issue cannot be seen until the front bumper is removed so no way GM will be replacing fenders on all new Stingrays but due to weak material and design, ill fitting parts and employees forcing parts to fit, the chances of this not being present on just about all of the new Corvettes are very slim.

Viper is so far ahead of Corvette in quality that unless one is completely high on GM kool aid, these two cars should not even come up in the same sentence.

 

[FLL-B/W-GTS]

Agreed,Viper Quality is outstanding at factory and can be compared to Porsche 911 quality.Been to both factories and witnessed this first hand.Have owned C6 Z06 and ZR1 and neither compared to Snake or Porsche in quality.The employees putting together these(V/P) cars care and do not do it half ass..Vette/ Not Even Close...

 

[Free2go]

Dude....we know you own and love your Porsche mmmkay? Were you aware that your Porsche looks more booring than a GTR and doesn't perform as well yet costs more money?

 

[PeerBlock]

Another massive GM recall issued yesterday...

http://www.foxbusiness.com/industri...ing-32m-more-cars-for-ignition-switch-issues/

 

[Austin]

Every car manufacturer has had a recall(s). This includes Porsche and Viper. Get over it. Sh*t happens. Next.

 

[PeerBlock]

Every car manufacturer has had a recall(s). Get over it. Sh*t happens. Next.

You serious or can you just not count? GM has recalled more cars this year than were made in total by all manufacturers combined last year...but yeah, things like this happen routinely. I mean if GM doesn't recall another 5 million by next weekend it means something is wrong. Believe it, bro!

 

[Austin]

You serious or can you just not count? GM has recalled more cars this year than were made in total by all manufacturers combined last year...but yeah, things like this happen routinely. I mean if GM doesn't recall another 5 million by next weekend it means something is wrong. Believe it, bro!

Yes, serious. Im not disregarding the fact that GM needs to get a handle on this, and quick, but they seem to be taking action, so you cant bash them for that. Again, sh*t happens.

 

[Jack B]

It is hard to support their effort when they ignored the problem for 14 years. I guessed at some numbers and came up with each GM mechanic doing at least 300 recall procedures

Yes, serious. Im not disregarding the fact that GM needs to get a handle on this, and quick, but they seem to be taking action, so you cant bash them for that. Again, sh*t happens.

 

[viperbilliam]

Other than volume, why do you think GM is able to keep the prices down on the new C7s?

 

[Bruce H.]

Other than volume, why do you think GM is able to keep the prices down on the new C7s?

Mass production, low cost materials, average quality build, poor quality control. I'm sure you get what you pay for but the marketing hype makes you think otherwise...and led you to ask your question

 

[klamathpro]

I just read in autoweek that as of June 1st, there was a 290 day supply of Vipers, with 700 units sitting in the dealer lots. It was the highest inventory supply in 'days' of any car by about double. Compare that with a 22 day supply of Vettes sitting on the lots. likely low optioned, ugly colors. Unfortunately, I don't think bad Vette press will bring over the buyers. It's a great car, but Dodge needs to do a reboot for 2015, starting with a vert, more power, and for the sake of Pete give it better tires.

 

[Bruce H.]

Unfortunately, I don't think bad Vette press will bring over the buyers.

All we need is about one hour's worth of C7 buyers to switch in order to clear every last '13/14 Viper off the lots!

 

[Jack B]

You have your apples and oranges confused. The zo6 will cost close to, or more than what you would pay for a SRT.
There seems to a common illness in this forum. When cost comparisons are made it is always with an optioned out GTS. You are going to find very little difference in track times between a track - pack SRT, a TA and a GTS.

Other than volume, why do you think GM is able to keep the prices down on the new C7s?

 

[Mamba52]

Why not own both cars. Did someone forget the air bag recall.

 

[Bryan Savage]

The latest print edition of Car and Driver has a good article in it about the recall debacle. It's not online yet, but here's a breakdown of what all the recalls were:

Clicky

Once the C&D article is online, read it. Or if you get the magazine, read it. There were a LOT of weird things that mat have also contributed to the accidents. The ignition switch de-energising the airbags was not the only problem in the accident cases.

Not to be cold-hearted here, but GM is recalling 336,000,000 cars. And out of ALL of those sold, there were 13 deaths and 54 accidents where this was determined to be A cause. This is 0.000000039% and 0.000000161% of vehicles, which any statistician will say "ain't so bad". Nobody wants anyone to die while using their product, but it is impossible to make a vehicle 100% safe. How many people do you know that carry around a twelve-pound keychain full of junk?? This is what happens.

I think that more people are upset that there was an acknowledged problem that was ignored, than the fact that there was a problem in the first place. The manufacturers test the crap out of every model they sell, but there's always going to be something that gets missed, or isn't thought of. This is partially what recalls are for.

GM will send out postcards to all the owners of the vehicles that are still on the roads, and have them stop by a dealership for a 30-minute part replacement that will lock the ignition cylinder up a little tighter. The fix will not be a big deal.

This is just a lesson to everyone not to ignore problems they see. If there's a part that's improperly designed, nobody will catch it. But if there's a part that's out of spec, you really need to say something. If it goes wrong, you'd better hope you have that email from your boss telling you not to worry about it, or else you'll be on the chopping block later on.

 

[Jack B]

I have been on the waiting list for 90 days and still no word. I was told the fix is a new ignition switch. The torque required to turn the problem switch is approx 12 in-lbs, the safe limit is 20 in-lbs. They knew they had a problem before 2004 and they hid it due to the potential costs. All five letters I received say to limit your driving and to make sure the start key is the only key on the ring. There have been some reports that the number of deaths are much higher. I am just guessing, but, a standard shift car would be a worse case, it is going to slow down much faster than an automatic.

The latest print edition of Car and Driver has a good article in it about the recall debacle. It's not online yet, but here's a breakdown of what all the recalls were:

Clicky

Once the C&D article is online, read it. Or if you get the magazine, read it. There were a LOT of weird things that mat have also contributed to the accidents. The ignition switch de-energising the airbags was not the only problem in the accident cases.

Not to be cold-hearted here, but GM is recalling 336,000,000 cars. And out of ALL of those sold, there were 13 deaths and 54 accidents where this was determined to be A cause. This is 0.000000039% and 0.000000161% of vehicles, which any statistician will say "ain't so bad". Nobody wants anyone to die while using their product, but it is impossible to make a vehicle 100% safe. How many people do you know that carry around a twelve-pound keychain full of junk?? This is what happens.

I think that more people are upset that there was an acknowledged problem that was ignored, than the fact that there was a problem in the first place. The manufacturers test the crap out of every model they sell, but there's always going to be something that gets missed, or isn't thought of. This is partially what recalls are for.

GM will send out postcards to all the owners of the vehicles that are still on the roads, and have them stop by a dealership for a 30-minute part replacement that will lock the ignition cylinder up a little tighter. The fix will not be a big deal.

This is just a lesson to everyone not to ignore problems they see. If there's a part that's improperly designed, nobody will catch it. But if there's a part that's out of spec, you really need to say something. If it goes wrong, you'd better hope you have that email from your boss telling you not to worry about it, or else you'll be on the chopping block later on.

 

[wikkid]

All I know is my 04 Viper had a lose crank bolt- and the synchros in the trans went out after 1000 miles- and every friggin body panel was misaligned. My ZO6 in comparison was flawless, so I'm not going to bust GM.
Dodge and Chevy run neck and neck, there both not that good, period.

 

[texas_venom]

This post makes you loose any credibility you may have had. C7s ugly??? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I happen to think GM hit a homerun with the C7. For the price it is a huge step up over the C6 in every category. Care to make the same comparison between the Gen IV and Gen V??? A lot of people arent happy with the styling of the Gen V either. So lets take the fanboy pants off for a second and try to be unbiased... if that's possible. I will always be a Viper fan but I happen top appreciate other cars as well. No other car has brought me the enjoyment that my Gen III has but I am not going to slam every other car out there to make myself feel better. When the Z07 comes out it will be interesting to see the response Viper produces as it will be a beast. And dollar for dollar pretty good performance value.

 

[PeerBlock]

This post makes you loose any credibility you may have had.

People who say this have no credibility to begin with, and they know that, so they open with this in a weak attempt at making whatever they say next seem remotely relevant.

C7s ugly??? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I happen to think GM hit a homerun with the C7.

No, the C7 isn't ugly, it's fugly. It's setting new boundaries for terrible aesthetics and poor taste, but I guess people who think coors light is premium beer aren't going to agree with that sentiment.

For the price it is a huge step up over the C6 in every category. Care to make the same comparison between the Gen IV and Gen V???

Last I checked the value proposition doesn't exactly apply to a $100K sports car. Nobody is buying a Viper to save money over a 911 or Ferarri - they are buying it because they like it and want to...though I'm sure with all those trim levels the Vette offers it is going to be a great value, making it feel right at home next to your Kia.

A lot of people arent happy with the styling of the Gen V either.

LOL

So lets take the fanboy pants off for a second and try to be unbiased... if that's possible.

I like how you think that pointing out a fact, that GM is recalling millions of vehicles because they value saving pennies per unit over quality, is "biased". Do you know what the word "biased" means? Hint: It doesn't mean someone saying something you dislike or disagree with. If you have a problem with the truth then you should also have a problem with GM and its vehicles as a whole.

I will always be a Viper fan but I happen top appreciate other cars as well. No other car has brought me the enjoyment that my Gen III has but I am not going to slam every other car out there to make myself feel better. When the Z07 comes out it will be interesting to see the response Viper produces as it will be a beast. And dollar for dollar pretty good performance value.

Go ahead and buy the Z-oh-whatever and blend in with all the other vettes filling up your local walmart parking lot. I appreciate cars that deserve appreciation and you seem to appreciate cars that are a "pretty good performance value" even if they are fugly and ubiquitous.

The best thing I can say about the C7 is "at least it's not a hybrid or EV".

 

[Mamba52]

PeerBlock can you please tell me what other cars you drive. Something tells me that your Gen5 is your daily driver.

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

All I know is my 04 Viper had a lose crank bolt- and the synchros in the trans went out after 1000 miles- and every friggin body panel was misaligned. My ZO6 in comparison was flawless, so I'm not going to bust GM.
Dodge and Chevy run neck and neck, there both not that good, period.

Best down to earth reply yet and if the turn a blind eye crowd and so called proud Viper owners (which I am but look at reality) would look at the yearly consumers reports on reliability Corvette VS Viper you will see the Vette is much more reliable overall. Plus for the money its the best bang for the buck. No I do not own a Vette but I do not turn a blind eye to awesome sales and performance either. It amazes me on all car forums how owners think their car is the best regardless on what performance and reliability reports say. And yes, I am one of the few that admits if I could afford a Lambo Aventador or Ferrari over the Viper I would have one of those instead. Love the Viper and on my third one but its NOT the only performance car out there. There are actually faster and better ones on the market.