Maybe it is Time to ...

[Craig 201 MPH]

You go it, I am passionate as hell over this car and I want it to live on, despite my *** stirring. Like I've said the SRT is a hell of a car performance wise, it's a great improvement in everything but looks and soul. I'll shut up once a coupe comes out.

 

[Cris]

how can the VCA grow when dodge isn't selling any Vipers...

[spaces removed to reduce the waste products of "Craig"]

just sayin.

You are a stupid little child.

I thought I remembered seeing that they have sold more SRT-10's per year than any previous year except 1994. Is that what you mean by not selling? Or maybe what you really mean is that they have improved the production efficiency such that they can make those cars in fewer days. So are you saying that they should worsen the production efficiency so that demand can be higher than production?

Again, stupid comments from an anti SRT **** (if you cannot read between the lines that means you Craig).

 

[Cris]

Craig, you will never shut up. You will just move on to the next soap box in which you have no vested interest. That is the life of a troll.

 

[NOMERCY]

Craig, Fair enough.

If you ever get out to Denver or Honolulu, as of next summer, look me up and I'll buy you a beer.

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

Craig, Fair enough.

If you ever get out to Denver or Honolulu, as of next summer, look me up and I'll buy you a beer.

If it's one thing I can't seem to complain about it's beer


Cris,

Currently the Viper plant is shut down due to a 200 day supply stockpile of SRT-10's. This has never happened before. This would explain the "not selling" part of my post.

 

[Cris]

Wrong conclusion Craig. It was oversupply rather than a change in demand that caused the plant to shut down.

The other important factor is that the previous Vipers were only sold through select dealers that had an on-site "Viper" technician. That changed with the SRT and they can now be ordered by any dealer. That ability caused many dealers to order SRT's for their showrooms without a sold order. Those are counted in the unsold population. If it were 1 per dealer that would be almost a years supply all by itself. Changes such as this are why you cannot compare based on available supply.

But, as an FYI, the demand for the Viper in 2001 and 2002 was less than in 2003 and 2004.

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

Wrong conclusion Craig. It was oversupply rather than a change in demand that caused the plant to shut down.

The other important factor is that the previous Vipers were only sold through select dealers that had an on-site "Viper" technician. That changed with the SRT and they can now be ordered by any dealer. That ability caused many dealers to order SRT's for their showrooms without a sold order. Those are counted in the unsold population. If it were 1 per dealer that would be almost a years supply all by itself. Changes such as this are why you cannot compare based on available supply.

But, as an FYI, the demand for the Viper in 2001 and 2002 was less than in 2003 and 2004.

Oversupply is the result of decreased demand. And I'm sure DC like any other automaker counts the cars as "Sold" once they leave the factory, the dealers just don't want an 85K car sitting on the showroom floor taking up space and are refusing to take them.

I thought the reules for ordering a Viper before was that you had to have a customer order before you could order a car, I know the dealership we got our RT/10 and GTS through is not a dealership with a Viper tech.

 

[dirk989]

"Oversupply is the result of decreased demand." Wrong.

We are talking low volumes here. Not millions or even tens of thousands. Viper sales are measured in many years and models by 100's.

Suppose you make 1000 cars. You have 1500 people wanting them. You sell every last one and have 500 people still wanting. Some of the 1000 have to pay a premium to get cars that the other 500 want.
More buyers than cars.

Now suppose that the next year you make 2500 of the cars. Suppose the demand goes UP and there are now 2000 people wanting the cars. You still have 500 extra, even with more demand. Some of the 2000 people get great bargains on the car because the dealer doesn't want it sitting around forever. The 500 cars left over now sit and have to be sold outside the original market. This requires great discounts or something else to create a market that didn't originally exist for these 500 cars.
More cars than buyers.

So, as you can see, oversupply can create a glut, even if demand goes up. The effect is more pronounced if the demand stays the same. Increases are also more prounounced in low volume/low demand cars like the Viper. Doubling production greatly overestimated the number of actual buyers.

Cris' analysis is dead on. And he is correct that demand for 01 and 02 years was less than 03 and 04.

We love the cars so we assume that the market is huge and that nearly everyone wants one. That just isn't true. I believe that the numbers sold in previous years were pretty close to the demand. All of the 03 model sold. (100%) Then production was bumped up too much. In our hearts, it hurts to think that not everyone likes the Viper, but when you look at the economic model it makes sense. You can also look at sales of not just the Gen III Viper, but also the older models. When you get ready to sell your used GenI, no matter how nice it is, there aren't 100 buyers waiting in line to buy it. If the original market had been much larger than the supply, there would still be large numbers of willing buyers.

I don't know how Dodge counts sales or what a dealer has to do to order a car, but someone else on here said that any dealer could have one, even without a buyer, and it didn't count as sold while being held by the dealer.

Dirk

 

[Cris]

Oversupply is the result of decreased demand. And I'm sure DC like any other automaker counts the cars as "Sold" once they leave the factory, the dealers just don't want an 85K car sitting on the showroom floor taking up space and are refusing to take them.

I thought the reules for ordering a Viper before was that you had to have a customer order before you could order a car, I know the dealership we got our RT/10 and GTS through is not a dealership with a Viper tech.

Wrongo my college student. You need to take a few classes in economics. Oversupply simply means that at the price offered there is lower demand than supply. In a purely free market that would cause the price to decrease until demand was equal to supply. That is effectively what you see when you see prices drop at the retail level.

Also, DC, as do all automakers, counts vehicles as sold when they are transferred to the selling unit. That is usually FOB the manufacturers ship point. That is a normal practice for acrual based accounting companies. However, the sales you see stated publicly are not the internal sales numbers but the external sales numbers which are determined through registrations, etc. They do aptly indicate the true sales rates.

There was never a requirement that a Viper had to be sold prior to assembly.

 

[vipah]

You can put whatever spin you want on it, the reality was that there were more cars than buyers. Never happened before at CAAP as far as I know.

 

[Cris]

You can put whatever spin you want on it, the reality was that there were more cars than buyers. Never happened before at CAAP as far as I know.

Spin? You really are as dumb as they say. The SRT is made at almost twice the speed of the old Gen I/II. Get it? They can make more. You have absolutely no idea if the old version would have sold enough to keep up with capacity if the capacity was doubled. You also did not read above where it was stated that the 2001 and 2002 sold slower and at a lower total than the 2003 and 2004 SRT.

This does make you question whether DC should have increased the SRT capacity, and allowed all this sales rate balderdash to exist. If they only made 1400 per year they would all be sold, and sold quickly. It was once said (by Lutz) that Viper production would always be one step lower than demand. The reason was to keep it propped up in terms of original sale/resale price. The new management obviously did not heed that sage advice.

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

Oversupply is the result of decreased demand. And I'm sure DC like any other automaker counts the cars as "Sold" once they leave the factory, the dealers just don't want an 85K car sitting on the showroom floor taking up space and are refusing to take them.

I thought the reules for ordering a Viper before was that you had to have a customer order before you could order a car, I know the dealership we got our RT/10 and GTS through is not a dealership with a Viper tech.

Wrongo my college student. You need to take a few classes in economics. Oversupply simply means that at the price offered there is lower demand than supply. In a purely free market that would cause the price to decrease until demand was equal to supply. That is effectively what you see when you see prices drop at the retail level.

Also, DC, as do all automakers, counts vehicles as sold when they are transferred to the selling unit. That is usually FOB the manufacturers ship point. That is a normal practice for acrual based accounting companies. However, the sales you see stated publicly are not the internal sales numbers but the external sales numbers which are determined through registrations, etc. They do aptly indicate the true sales rates.

There was never a requirement that a Viper had to be sold prior to assembly.

No I think I have it, but you can pretend to be MSNBC all you want..

There is too much $hit sitting around because the $hit didn't sell. Simple as that.

 

[Cris]

Okay I give up. Craig you are the smartest here. Why not quit college and just become a CEO right now given all the talent you have shown here? College just teaches you theories that you know better than anyway. In fact, from what I have observed, I would hire you right now. As a lawn boy

 

[SRT10]

Quote by VIPAH

You can put whatever spin you want on it, the reality was that there were more cars than buyers. Never happened before at CAAP as far as I know.

VIPAH (Wannabe)
Steve ('99 Silver/Blue C4)

Why don't you "spin" your fat a$$ out the door! Your nothing but a TROLL!

In the Garage

Out in the street

You must be registered for see images

 

[vipah]

Hey SRT10, why do you keep posting the pictures of your vette? Is that the one that you pretend is an SRT? They sure look the same! You should make that your avitar! Its better than the nothing that you really have.

LMAO

You must have the lowest IQ on the internet.



LOL

 

[vipah]

You can put whatever spin you want on it, the reality was that there were more cars than buyers. Never happened before at CAAP as far as I know.

Spin? You really are as dumb as they say. The SRT is made at almost twice the speed of the old Gen I/II. Get it? They can make more. You have absolutely no idea if the old version would have sold enough to keep up with capacity if the capacity was doubled. You also did not read above where it was stated that the 2001 and 2002 sold slower and at a lower total than the 2003 and 2004 SRT.

This does make you question whether DC should have increased the SRT capacity, and allowed all this sales rate balderdash to exist. If they only made 1400 per year they would all be sold, and sold quickly. It was once said (by Lutz) that Viper production would always be one step lower than demand. The reason was to keep it propped up in terms of original sale/resale price. The new management obviously did not heed that sage advice.

Hey christine, so is there more buyers than cars? Nope. Come back when you have a brain sonny.

LOL

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

Actually there was a requirement that they be sold prior to order back in the day, at least during the 2000 model year when I was shopping.

 

[FLOORIN04]

CRAIG 201 MPH: YOUR QUOTE- I am passionate as hell over this car and I want it to live on, despite my *** stirring. Like I've said the SRT is a hell of a car performance wise, it's a great improvement in everything but looks and soul. I'll shut up once a coupe comes out.

---------------------

Yeah sure you will

Sorry couldn't resist

 

[Cris]

Lee, nope not true. Many a dealer ordered one for their showroom. That is how I purchased my first one, off the dealer showroom.

BTW, did you guys know there was only one year, yes one year, that Chrysler offered Vipers to employees with an employee discount. That was 1995. Due to the high volume of 1994's production overcame demand and use of the employee discount was the method chosen to increase demand without affecting the general market. Seems like just prior to the GTS sales were already "softening." History repeats itself. The market for a high dollar American sports car is limited. Add on the roadster/convertible aspect and it gets very small. 2005 seems like a repeat of 1995.

 

[SnakeBitten]

SnakeBitten, Unfortunately you are right about the canibalism that exists on these internet forums. It just seems like there is much more of it here and it is a much smaller community. Just because it is done elsewhere that does not make it right though. This kind of crap does will drive people away. I would expect the Viper community to want to grow, I am sure the VCA would like to grow and I know DC wants it to grow. I guess it really does not matter to me as I prefer to hang out with a more diverse crowd, but for those who do have a passion for all that is Viper it seems like ******* in your own cereal.

I concur NM...It does stick out more here because its a much smaller community than most others...The rabid infighting could deffinately be toned down, but I doubt that will happen . And unfortunately it will drive some people away or just make them develop a hate for the car just because of owners attitudes. Saw this happen first hand with the Supra. Loved the car and was interested in buying one. After seeing the attitudes of alot of the owners on the site, way back when, I started to hate the car through no fault of the car...Vipers do seem to evoke strong emotions, good and bad, in its owners and non owners like myself...I, however dont want a site where I have to be PC about what I write about a damned car...Its pathetic how this society has become PC...I want to be able to at least express the truth about how I feel about a freakin car...jeez

 

[NOMERCY]

SnakeBitten,

I think being PC is a little too much. It's a free country after all. It is just the lack of tact. There is a time and place and sometimes if you can't say something good it is best to just keep quiet. Too often in this society we confuse ones right to an opinion with being rude and offensive. Why does ones right to an opinion override ones right not to have to hear it. Constantly forcing ones opinions on others when none has been asked for is just asking for trouble.

If you were sitting at a gas station and some guy pulled up who did not like your car would, almost always, keep that thought to himself. I would think it would be highly unlikely for him to walk up and say what he really thought. If he did, you would be at least offended and more likely pissed. Now if you asked him what he thought of your car that would be different.

It really has nothing to do with Vipers and has everything to do with mutual respect and common courtesy. I normally try to stay out of the drama but sometimes I lose my better judgement and just have to jump in and get a little dirty.

 

[SnakeBitten]

NM I wasnt refering to you or your posts with the PC thing. It just came out sounding that way...I understand where you are coming from and agree. The PC thing was more for those who dont want to hear anything bad about the car so they want their own forums where only good things will be said about the SRT10...No offending comments etc. Thats the PC-like stuff Im talking about. Im not talking about the intentional acidic posts as the only purpose is to stir the *** which breaks up the monotony but also starts the ******* contest. Those will get tiring quickly..Some here dont even want to hear a bad word about the SRT. Its only human but its just not realistic. Especially on the internet..

The important thing is that when these guys meet up to do a track day or just hang out, from what Ive read, everyone is all one...No one cares about generational differences. Thats more of a testament of the community than the petty squabbles you read on here...Id be more worried if they were going at each other at those outings than these keyboard wars...

 

[NOMERCY]

True. The Viper owners that I have actually met have all been great people. None of them actively post here though ... I wonder why? It seems as if this place attracts the hard corps people and with such a mixture of type A personalities I guess conflict is inevitable.