Method to bleed air out of your hydraulic clutch system

[2000_Black_RT10]

I recently changed my clutch and slave. After searching and finding many posts, there were many, many compaints about soft pedals and attempts to bleed a clutch unsuccessfully on a Viper. The method most common was to pump 10 times, then crack the bleeder at the slave, then pump 10 times again, etc.. but I found what the problem is.. why we are having a tough time getting air out of the system, as I did..

Problem:
The clutch master cylinder is outboard of the frame rail and the slave is inboard. The braided line between these 2 connections needs to go up and over the frame rail like a roller coaster, this is where air is trapped, in the line at the top of the loop above the frame rail. This is the reason why you have to desperately need to pump and bleed.

Here's a quick video describing the setup..

http://www.wincom.net/mnllehti/Bleeding_Clutch_Video.wmv

Here's what I did...

[media]http://www.wincom.net/mnllehti/Viper_clutch_bleed_1.jpg[/media]

1) Inside the car, under the dash, remove the clutch master cylinder electrical connection, little plastic push-on button (locks the master cylinder from rotating), and the push rod clip on the pedal bracket.

2) Under the hood, reach under and grip the clutch master cylinder and rotate it 45 degrees counter clockwise to disconnect it from the dash panel.

3) Remove the intermediate steering shaft coupler, use a 1/2" wrench to remove the 2 bolts and slide the coupler off the shafts (tap it forward off the steering wheel shaft then rearward off the rack shaft). Removing this allows you to remove the clutch master cylinder with the braided line attached.

[media]http://www.wincom.net/mnllehti/Viper_clutch_bleed_3.jpg[/media]
[media]http://www.wincom.net/mnllehti/Viper_clutch_bleed_4.jpg[/media]

4) Drain the reservoir, do this by removing the rubber line from the clutch master cylinder and let the fluid drain into a cup. Remove the rubber line from the reservoir and remove the reservoir (2 phillips screws).

5) Slide the clutch master cylinder under the wiring harness and pull it out.

6) Use a coke bottle (just clean & wipe it dry..) or whatever and attach a ****** (the type of ****** you get with diff / trans fluid bottles attaches to a coke bottle) to the reservoir rubber line and to the clutch master cylinder. Hang the bottle elevated above (i.e. mechanics wire, hang from the hood rear roller latch), fill with your chosen / favourite fluid. I just went stock with Mopar DOT3 (that's what my cap states).

[media]http://www.wincom.net/mnllehti/Viper_clutch_bleed_2.jpg[/media]

7) Lift the car up, get underneath and crack open the slave bleeder (11 mm wrench), pump the clutch master cylinder by hand a couple times, let the fluid drip out for 5 minutes or so via gravity into a pan. Then tighten the slave bleeder.

[media]http://www.wincom.net/mnllehti/Viper_clutch_bleed_5.jpg[/media]
[media]http://www.wincom.net/mnllehti/Viper_clutch_bleed_6.jpg[/media]
[media]http://www.wincom.net/mnllehti/Viper_clutch_bleed_7.jpg[/media]

8) Let the air escape out via gravity for a couple hours.. or just leave it overnight like I did. Every few minutes I would see an air bubble rise to the top into the bottle. Jiggle the master cylinder afterwards, try plunging it a bit (very hard to do since the slave bleeder is closed) but you may see the last couple bubbles escape..

[media]http://www.wincom.net/mnllehti/Viper_clutch_bleed_8.jpg[/media]

9) Pour the remaining fluid from the bottle out into another container and remove the rubber line from the bottle and attach it to the reservoir (which is still removed from the car). Fill the reservoir with fluid and hold it up to let any air escape and put the cap on.

10 Install the clutch master cylinder and reservoir back into the car, little plastic push-on button to lock the master cylinder from rotating (inside of car), always keep the reservoir above the clutch master cylinder.

11) Install the steering coupler, clutch pedal push rod clip and electrical connection.

That's it.. Perhaps you can do it with a vacuum setup, but for what it's worth.. this method works great.

Regards,
Mike

 

[GTS Dean]

Most excellent post. Thanks!

 

[dave6666]

I just hooked my Mityvac up to the bleed port and sucked an 8oz can of fluid through. Took all of 5 minutes. All of that seems way more complicated.

 

[Art 138]

Interesting in the context that it is so much easier to bleed out the Gen 3/4, which I recently did uneventfully.....

 

[2000_Black_RT10]

Thanks Dean!

Dave66666 - That's cool. For a bit of background, this was a topic of discussion at work the other day.. bugging the guys in our Dynamic Suspensions division.. actually have to give credit to a damper designer Paul (he's done F1 stuff etc.. in the UK) who pointed out the **** in the line and that's my problem. We have all sorts of tools at work, degassing equip, pumps, etc.. etc.. Problem with a vacuum pump is the dis/connect especially on the hex bleeder that doesn't have a fitting and can bleed air thru the threads (the bleeder threads in to the slave casting) and cavitation. As the designer told me.. I could have taken it one step further and degassed the new fluid prior to pouring it (and you have to gently pour it once degassed). The other methods of vigoroursly pumping the pedal is not good because it will just aerate / dissipate the air into the fluid and it'll end up collecting in the **** of the line over time.

It's one of those jobs in which a bit of effort and not needing special tools provides a better result.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

You could have posted this a month ago when I changed my clutch.


But great post and the vid is an excellent touch.

 

[2000_Black_RT10]

You could have posted this a month ago when I changed my clutch.


But great post and the vid is an excellent touch.

Thanks Chuck.. btw.. I used "The Lemon Song" for background music.. fluid wasn't running down my leg.. but it did run down my arm..

 

[FastZilla]

My weapon of choice:
Motive Products Shopping Cart

Here is the parts you will need (I was asked of-line so I figured I'd add it to this post):
You use the Chrysler bleeder (0103 plastic; 1103 aluminum) for all modern brake master cylinders (yellow caps - Gen 3 & 4). Works on all of my Chrysler trucks, SRT cars, PT Loser, etc.

Use the Ford 3-tab adapter (0117 plastic, 1117 aluminum) for the Gen 1 & 2 brake master cylinders. Works on my Ford trucks too.

Use the European adapter (0109 plastic, 1109 aluminum) for the clutch reservoir for ALL Gen 1-4 reservoirs - they are all the same. All american fleet so who knows on the reuse for these.

I also bought the pair of bleeder reservoirs - 2 is great because as you are pushing the contents of the reservoir out the right hand rear caliper you will fill almost the whole bottle before you get air. You can use the 2nd bottle to get the rest - saves you from having to dump twice ($9 for the 2nd bottle is well worth it!). I force air thru the system first then refill with fluid - cake with this tool & ensures a 100% flush. Takes about 10 minutes on the Gen1 (have to remove rear tires) - non-ABS. Takes 20+ minutes on the Gen4, gotta love those ABS valve bodies - allows for ample time to get a beer, drink it, go inside and recycle the drank beer - move to next caliper, rinse and repeat.

Whole set-up with aluminum adapters is just under $200. Can save about $75 by going witht the plastic adapters.

 

[Kevan]

My weapon of choice:
Motive Products Shopping Cart

Here is the parts you will need (I was asked of-line so I figured I'd add it to this post):
You use the Chrysler bleeder (0103 plastic; 1103 aluminum) for all modern brake master cylinders (yellow caps - Gen 3 & 4). Works on all of my Chrysler trucks, SRT cars, PT Loser, etc.

Use the Ford 3-tab adapter (0117 plastic, 1117 aluminum) for the Gen 1 & 2 brake master cylinders. Works on my Ford trucks too.

Use the European adapter (0109 plastic, 1109 aluminum) for the clutch reservoir for ALL Gen 1-4 reservoirs - they are all the same. All american fleet so who knows on the reuse for these.

No offense, but couldn't you just get replacement caps from Dodge, drill a hole, insert a $0.99 brass fitting from Home Depot, seal it up with some silicone....then pocket the other $25?


Anyone have the Mopar part numbers/MSRPs for the Brake and Clutch MC caps?

 

[jdeft1]

Geez... seemed pretty easy to me. Gonna try Dave6666's way next time. That's the way I do my brakes.....

= J

 

[FastZilla]

There are a ton of money saving methods. The cap off the brake is off a Ford, the other one is probably the same ones found on the *** cars. Could probably get both at Autozone or a junk yard for less. Use a 1/4" NPT (male) to 3/8" hose barb fitting from home depot. Use a 1/4" NPT cap with a 1/4" hole drilled in the "cap" part as a nut to tighten the fitting on.

However the plastic adapter kits come with a plastic cap. The extra $25 is for a machined aluminum cap if you want a more durable cap.

Vacuum or pressure - they both do the same thing. I used the vacuum method long before I learned about the pressure. The pressure set up is about $50 with 1 plastic adapter. I'm assuming it's going to be $75 with the pump & 2 plastic adapters.

Check the price of one brake fluid or clutch fluid swap at the dealer - the price of the tool pays for itself pretty quickly.

No offense, but couldn't you just get replacement caps from Dodge, drill a hole, insert a $0.99 brass fitting from Home Depot, seal it up with some silicone....then pocket the other $25?


Anyone have the Mopar part numbers/MSRPs for the Brake and Clutch MC caps?

 

[RTTTTed]

Thanks Mike.

If I have a problem bleeding my clutch this winter I'll be able to use your method with ease.

Ted

 

[dave6666]

The only reason I do not like pressure bleeding is because of working with fluid that can damage painted surfaces, while that fluid is under pressure in an area that is not normally under pressure. The plastic reservoir is an atmospheric vessel the rest of the time. Sure, it's designed to hold 15 psi to pressure bleed the system but what if it cracks or the seal at the base leaks or your adapter cap flies off or breaks or...

If my vacuum system fails during use the only thing that will happen is my vacuum bleeder will over fill with... um... air.

Oh, and my Mityvac does fluid fills to the tranny and diff and radiator and all my stuff cost 25 to 50% less than the pressure stuff.

Sorry. That was 2 reasons.

 

[WDW MKR]

My weapon of choice:
Motive Products Shopping Cart

Here is the parts you will need (I was asked of-line so I figured I'd add it to this post):
You use the Chrysler bleeder (0103 plastic; 1103 aluminum) for all modern brake master cylinders (yellow caps - Gen 3 & 4). Works on all of my Chrysler trucks, SRT cars, PT Loser, etc.

Use the Ford 3-tab adapter (0117 plastic, 1117 aluminum) for the Gen 1 & 2 brake master cylinders. Works on my Ford trucks too.

Use the European adapter (0109 plastic, 1109 aluminum) for the clutch reservoir for ALL Gen 1-4 reservoirs - they are all the same. All american fleet so who knows on the reuse for these.

I also bought the pair of bleeder reservoirs - 2 is great because as you are pushing the contents of the reservoir out the right hand rear caliper you will fill almost the whole bottle before you get air. You can use the 2nd bottle to get the rest - saves you from having to dump twice ($9 for the 2nd bottle is well worth it!). I force air thru the system first then refill with fluid - cake with this tool & ensures a 100% flush. Takes about 10 minutes on the Gen1 (have to remove rear tires) - non-ABS. Takes 20+ minutes on the Gen4, gotta love those ABS valve bodies - allows for ample time to get a beer, drink it, go inside and recycle the drank beer - move to next caliper, rinse and repeat.

Whole set-up with aluminum adapters is just under $200. Can save about $75 by going witht the plastic adapters.

Have you used the clutch adapter with success? I picked up the MPV-1100, which is the earlier version of the 1109, and it is way too small. Both part numbers are listed as 45mm caps. I'll be sending it back, but would like to know what to order in its place.

Good news is that the brake cap works perfectly.