98viperGTS
Viper Owner
Is Mobil 1, 10W 30 the best for a 97 GTS? Also, where is the best place to get a Mobil 1 oil filter, part number?
Mobil one oil, what weight
- Thread starter 98viperGTS
- Start date
STL RT/10
Enthusiast
I know a lot of people on here like 0 weight. I personally run the 10w30 in the summer and 5w30 in the winter. But...we get below zero in the winter...if you're in the southern region, you could probably run the 10w30 all the time.
V10SpeedLuvr
Enthusiast
I'm also a resident of the Dirty South and run 10w30 all year round
...and AutoZone carries the Mobile M1-204 that fits Vipers (ALL Generations).
98viperGTS
Viper Owner
Thanks guys. Thats what I needed to know.
Mccarlin
Enthusiast
Walmart i have found is the cheapest. 5 gallon jug of Mobile 1 for 22 bucks.
99 R/T 10
Enthusiast
In the dirty south too 
, with my car (Roe charged). I like to use 15-50W in the summer, 10-30W in the winter.
, with my car (Roe charged). I like to use 15-50W in the summer, 10-30W in the winter.mad0953
Enthusiast
I use Mobil 1 0-40 in my Viper and in my Miata that I autoX. Oil pressure is always great in both cars.
98viperGTS
Viper Owner
Ok, I will ask and I am sure that Tom will be able to answer. What is the real diff with all the oil weights. Is one better in the summer then the winter, how do you know which is right?
ryan94rt10
Viper Owner
hey 98 viper...
mcclarin is right, buy the 5 quart jug at walmart...by far the cheepest...i run a napa gold filter, which is made by wix, and the part number is their book at the shop...but i think it is 1805 or 1850 just check...total price for oil and filter is around 50 bucks...way cheeper than the dealer!
mcclarin is right, buy the 5 quart jug at walmart...by far the cheepest...i run a napa gold filter, which is made by wix, and the part number is their book at the shop...but i think it is 1805 or 1850 just check...total price for oil and filter is around 50 bucks...way cheeper than the dealer!
98viperGTS
Viper Owner
Yeah, thats where I am going to get it. Its like 21.50 here.
10 is the lower or cold viscosity. 0 is like water, so it flows to all the bearings and journals quickly and flows very easily at COLD and REALLY cold temps
30, 40, 50 are the hot or operating temperature viscosity
Years ago, the wider the span (10-40) the more viscosity improvers the oil had. These viscosity index improvers were a "bad" thing. Tom I am sure will address this if he stops by.
Many folks here use M1, Amzoil, Royal Purple, Red Line.....kind of like waxes and ketchup. We all have our personal preferences and favorites
30, 40, 50 are the hot or operating temperature viscosity
Years ago, the wider the span (10-40) the more viscosity improvers the oil had. These viscosity index improvers were a "bad" thing. Tom I am sure will address this if he stops by.
Many folks here use M1, Amzoil, Royal Purple, Red Line.....kind of like waxes and ketchup. We all have our personal preferences and favorites
Tom F&L GoR
Enthusiast
The first number with the "W" indicates the viscosity at temperatures far below 0C; to measure the "thickness" it's at -20C for a 15W, -25C for a 5W, -30C for a 0W. To measure the "suckability" the test is at 5C lower than the "thickness" test.
Frankly, the "thickness" portion doesn't matter anymore. When cars were carburetted, they had to crank at a certain speed for the carburetor and choke to see enough air speed to deliver enough fuel to start when it was cold. Therefore the oil had to allow enough cranking RPM. Fuel injection will deliver enough gasoline no matter what cranking RPM.
The "suckability" is more important than before. This is how easily the cold oil can be sucked through the oil pump pickup tube. Like a milkshake, it can be hard to "****" but even worse is to **** a hole in the shake and ingest air. In an engine, that would be bad. With a fuel injected engine that starts at almost zero RPM, if it really does start, but the oil pump can't **** any oil into it... that would be bad!
In practical terms, a low "W" number would be an easier oil to push around, and for the racers looking for the last horsepower, the lower the better. It does not mean you are giving up any high temperature protection.
The second number is the "thickness" at 100C. This bench measurement was determined long ago, and is still a reasonably good indicator now. The better measurement is called "high temperature high shear" viscosity, which is how the bearings would "see" the oil (under high shear and 150C.) However, the current system makes the kinematic viscosity at 100C and HTHS viscosity fall into the same SAE oil viscosity bracket, so you can't really make a mistake anyway.
The more viscosity at 100C, the thicker the oil film. A film that is "too" thick loses fractions of a percent in fuel economy. An oil that is "too" thin allows metal contact, which after the additive chemistry is depleted, causes wear in the engine.
An "ideal" oil is easy to pump (i.e. a 0W or 5W) and has more than enough bearing protection (a 30 or 40.) So a 0W-40 will be really robust - knowing full well that a 10W-30 was factory fill at one time. I have always like the 5W-40 grade because there are some minor technical formulation nuances I prefer.
In your mind, please separate the first and second number. A 5W-20, 5W-30, and 5W-40 will all have the same SAE viscosity performance at low temperature, regardless of base oil type. If you want to argue that a synthetic 5W-xx is better than a mineral 5W-xx at low temperature, then you have lots of automotive, oil company, and chemical company engineers and chemists that will side against you. Same for 0W-40, 5W-40, and 10W-40 at high temperature. The reason the SAE viscosity grade system exists is because all the "stakeholders" have agreed that the engine can't tell the difference.
A multigrade oil is made by selecting the base oil to meet the cold temperature properties, i.e. the 0W or 5W tests. Then a "viscosity index improver" additive is used to thicken it at high temperatures to meet the 100C requirement. So multigrades are thin oils made thicker, not thick oils made to behave thinner.
In the early days of multigrades and in mineral oil formulations, a 10W40 grade might have been 12%-15% VII. These additives are long chain polymers that can break down, shear, or polymerize into goo balls. The result would be an oil too thin, or an oil that formed deposits early in life. VII is much better quality today than it was years ago.
Synthetic base oil has a naturally high viscosity index. That means it uses about 2/3 to half the amount of VII that a mineral oil would. In fact, you really couldn't make a 0W-40 or 0W-50 out of a mineral oil (Group I or II, probably could with a Group III.) Therefore you shouldn't attribute the negative issues with a wide-split viscosity grade on a synthetic formulation.
All this viscosity stuff is actually a little more delicate to formulate because there are volatility specifications, must account for the viscosity of the additives, and what second base oil types you might want to use the additive package in (and read the data achieved in the first round of tests over to qualify the second base oil also.)
In the end, the additives are more important. While there are guidelines to swap base oils in and out of the final products, much more testing is required to swap additives in and out.
Thanks for reading this far.
Frankly, the "thickness" portion doesn't matter anymore. When cars were carburetted, they had to crank at a certain speed for the carburetor and choke to see enough air speed to deliver enough fuel to start when it was cold. Therefore the oil had to allow enough cranking RPM. Fuel injection will deliver enough gasoline no matter what cranking RPM.
The "suckability" is more important than before. This is how easily the cold oil can be sucked through the oil pump pickup tube. Like a milkshake, it can be hard to "****" but even worse is to **** a hole in the shake and ingest air. In an engine, that would be bad. With a fuel injected engine that starts at almost zero RPM, if it really does start, but the oil pump can't **** any oil into it... that would be bad!
In practical terms, a low "W" number would be an easier oil to push around, and for the racers looking for the last horsepower, the lower the better. It does not mean you are giving up any high temperature protection.
The second number is the "thickness" at 100C. This bench measurement was determined long ago, and is still a reasonably good indicator now. The better measurement is called "high temperature high shear" viscosity, which is how the bearings would "see" the oil (under high shear and 150C.) However, the current system makes the kinematic viscosity at 100C and HTHS viscosity fall into the same SAE oil viscosity bracket, so you can't really make a mistake anyway.
The more viscosity at 100C, the thicker the oil film. A film that is "too" thick loses fractions of a percent in fuel economy. An oil that is "too" thin allows metal contact, which after the additive chemistry is depleted, causes wear in the engine.
An "ideal" oil is easy to pump (i.e. a 0W or 5W) and has more than enough bearing protection (a 30 or 40.) So a 0W-40 will be really robust - knowing full well that a 10W-30 was factory fill at one time. I have always like the 5W-40 grade because there are some minor technical formulation nuances I prefer.
In your mind, please separate the first and second number. A 5W-20, 5W-30, and 5W-40 will all have the same SAE viscosity performance at low temperature, regardless of base oil type. If you want to argue that a synthetic 5W-xx is better than a mineral 5W-xx at low temperature, then you have lots of automotive, oil company, and chemical company engineers and chemists that will side against you. Same for 0W-40, 5W-40, and 10W-40 at high temperature. The reason the SAE viscosity grade system exists is because all the "stakeholders" have agreed that the engine can't tell the difference.
A multigrade oil is made by selecting the base oil to meet the cold temperature properties, i.e. the 0W or 5W tests. Then a "viscosity index improver" additive is used to thicken it at high temperatures to meet the 100C requirement. So multigrades are thin oils made thicker, not thick oils made to behave thinner.
In the early days of multigrades and in mineral oil formulations, a 10W40 grade might have been 12%-15% VII. These additives are long chain polymers that can break down, shear, or polymerize into goo balls. The result would be an oil too thin, or an oil that formed deposits early in life. VII is much better quality today than it was years ago.
Synthetic base oil has a naturally high viscosity index. That means it uses about 2/3 to half the amount of VII that a mineral oil would. In fact, you really couldn't make a 0W-40 or 0W-50 out of a mineral oil (Group I or II, probably could with a Group III.) Therefore you shouldn't attribute the negative issues with a wide-split viscosity grade on a synthetic formulation.
All this viscosity stuff is actually a little more delicate to formulate because there are volatility specifications, must account for the viscosity of the additives, and what second base oil types you might want to use the additive package in (and read the data achieved in the first round of tests over to qualify the second base oil also.)
In the end, the additives are more important. While there are guidelines to swap base oils in and out of the final products, much more testing is required to swap additives in and out.
Thanks for reading this far.
99 R/T 10
Enthusiast
Damn Tom, I love when you push your infinite wisodom of oil 
Tom F&L GoR
Enthusiast
You like those technical terms like "goo balls"? 
Fast Freddy
Enthusiast
theoretically castrols 5W-50 synthetic would be the best muti-temp range oil you can get. but since i live in arizona and road race my car i run mobils 15W-50 synthetic with K&N's performance gold oil filter which traps 10 microns. now if i lived in alaska i would run mobile 1's 0W-30. a good oil additive that i use is prolong. i mix 1 quart to my 9 quarts of mobil 1 synthetic. prolong has the thermal capacity of a straight 70 weight oil but yet it flows like water. back when kenny bernstein was racing top fuelers he had a sponsorship from prolong and would get the stuff for free by the gallon. he would run it straight in his 20 guart dry sump hemi engine with no oil mixed in. they would alwyas put fresh prolong in after every run when they would tear down the motor and one time they forgot to put it back into the engine and when he went to the starting line and fired his motor and did his burnout on the back up he realized he had no oil pressure and shut the motor down. they took the dragster back to the pits and tore the motor down and could find no visible sign of damage to the engine whatsoever. so they put new bearings and rings in it and proceeded to run a sub 5 second pass @ 300+ mph in the next time out on that same motor prolong bonds to the metal parts in your engine and can save your motor in the event of mishaps such as this. i can testify to this too as i have had some unfortunate circumstances happen to me too in my nitrous injected BIG block chevy drag boat engine and i can honestly say without a doubt that prolong saved me alot of $$$ too. i used to be sponsored by unocal racing (76 race gas) and i talked to one of their petrol chemists and he told me the most important thing when it comes to choosing motor oil is not the brand but utilizing the right weight motor oil for the circumstance in which you intend to operate your motor under. ie: temperature equals weight, thickness, and viscosity of oil as i suggested early based on where you live, etc
prolong bonds to the metal parts in your engine and can save your motor in the event of mishaps such as this. i can testify to this too as i have had some unfortunate circumstances happen to me too in my nitrous injected BIG block chevy drag boat engine and i can honestly say without a doubt that prolong saved me alot of $$$ too. i used to be sponsored by unocal racing (76 race gas) and i talked to one of their petrol chemists and he told me the most important thing when it comes to choosing motor oil is not the brand but utilizing the right weight motor oil for the circumstance in which you intend to operate your motor under. ie: temperature equals weight, thickness, and viscosity of oil as i suggested early based on where you live, etc Tom F&L GoR
Enthusiast
The wide spread in a synthetic oil should not be a cause for concern. It's been a few years since I've been doing this, but there is a trend from {synthetic base oil plus VII} to {mix of low viscosity synthetic and ultra-high viscosity synthetic.} It does two things; gets rid of almost all the VII (and therefore removes *** shots from small marketers that say the VII additives, which come diluted with mineral oil, cause the "synthetic" claim to be false) and eliminates any shear down. The downside is cost; PAO in a 100 cSt grade is more expensive than PAO in 4, 6, or 8 cSt. Gear oils are made this way because gear teeth shear VIIs, and gear oils are not drained very frequently.
Eneos (Nippon Oil Company) is introducing an SAE 0W-50 synthetic. I'm sure if M1 has one, it would also be very good. I wouldn't say there's a engine (with round bearings and reasonable oil cooling) that needs an SAE 50, though.
You're in Richmond - you need to bum a visit to the Ethyl, then Albermarle, now Afton Chemical facility. Say hi to my buddies there.
Eneos (Nippon Oil Company) is introducing an SAE 0W-50 synthetic. I'm sure if M1 has one, it would also be very good. I wouldn't say there's a engine (with round bearings and reasonable oil cooling) that needs an SAE 50, though.
You're in Richmond - you need to bum a visit to the Ethyl, then Albermarle, now Afton Chemical facility. Say hi to my buddies there.
01 RT SNAKE
Enthusiast
22 bucks for 5 gallons! I think I've been getting screwed!
Tom F&L GoR
Enthusiast
Of the base oil types, there is Group III, which is a very, very highly refined mineral oil, and Group IV which is PAO. Group V is "all other" and is typically other forms of synthetics.
If you had an array of bench and engine tests, you would be very hard pressed to find a performance difference between Group III and IV. Formulating with either is pretty close to the same. The biggest difference is the marketing claim, but then a famous challenge between Castrol and Mobil found in Castrol's favor, which decided that since there is no performance criteria that can differentiate, Group III can also be called a synthetic. It is much less expensive; about 2/3 I think. So when you buy Castrol synthetic at $4/qt and Mobil synthetic at $4/qt, Castrol is making a ton more than Mobil.
Unfortunately there is no legal definition. It is a marketing game and the use of "true" or "100%" or any other adjective to imply "real" synthetic is supposed to tell you the difference.
The performance difference isn't there for a driver to tell.
If you had an array of bench and engine tests, you would be very hard pressed to find a performance difference between Group III and IV. Formulating with either is pretty close to the same. The biggest difference is the marketing claim, but then a famous challenge between Castrol and Mobil found in Castrol's favor, which decided that since there is no performance criteria that can differentiate, Group III can also be called a synthetic. It is much less expensive; about 2/3 I think. So when you buy Castrol synthetic at $4/qt and Mobil synthetic at $4/qt, Castrol is making a ton more than Mobil.
Unfortunately there is no legal definition. It is a marketing game and the use of "true" or "100%" or any other adjective to imply "real" synthetic is supposed to tell you the difference.
The performance difference isn't there for a driver to tell.
Viper TT/10
Enthusiast
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2006
- Posts
- 128
- Reaction score
- 0
are the oil additives like prolong, lucas oil treatments, etc. a good thing to add? what is the down side of a oil stabilizer or treatment?
Tom F&L GoR
Enthusiast
Lubricants have about 5-6 major categories of additives included and if you realize what's available, you can find oils that have "more" stuff in them already. "Euro" oils have more than regular gasoline oils, diesel oils have more than "euro" oils. It gets a little harder to find what "performance" oils have that makes them better than that, but that's not your question.
Oil additives are (hopefully) good components, but not always. The famous Falex or Timken tester will have visually dramatic and instantly appearing benefits, but actually have nothing to do with how an engine runs. Performance in those tests does nothing but empty your wallet and in the worst case can corrode certain metals in your engine and shorten engine life. An oil stabilizer - there are enough anti-oxidants already in an oil. Plus there is a risk of incompatible additives (yours truly made a vat full of hazy oil once because a good VII was blended with a good additive package, and we had not tried a small hand blend before.)
You would get more performance benefit from one lower viscosity grade (i.e. Randy going from a 15W-50 to a 5W-40) than you will ever get from an aftermarket additive. You would get more protection by going from a regular oil to a diesel oil than you would get from an aftermarket product.
Oil additives are (hopefully) good components, but not always. The famous Falex or Timken tester will have visually dramatic and instantly appearing benefits, but actually have nothing to do with how an engine runs. Performance in those tests does nothing but empty your wallet and in the worst case can corrode certain metals in your engine and shorten engine life. An oil stabilizer - there are enough anti-oxidants already in an oil. Plus there is a risk of incompatible additives (yours truly made a vat full of hazy oil once because a good VII was blended with a good additive package, and we had not tried a small hand blend before.)
You would get more performance benefit from one lower viscosity grade (i.e. Randy going from a 15W-50 to a 5W-40) than you will ever get from an aftermarket additive. You would get more protection by going from a regular oil to a diesel oil than you would get from an aftermarket product.
98viperGTS
Viper Owner
Thanks for all the info Tom.
snampro
Enthusiast
sounds like I should be running 0w-30 or 5w-30 here in Atlanta. I've been running 10w-30 simply because its the factory fill.
is there any reason not to run 0w- or 5w- weight oil? I get from the first big post that too much "suckability" means there's a chance the engine could **** air? is that right?
is there any reason not to run 0w- or 5w- weight oil? I get from the first big post that too much "suckability" means there's a chance the engine could **** air? is that right?
Bolt
Viper Owner
How many quarts does it take including filling the oil filter? I just got my Viper and it was 2 quarts over full. I'm going to change it.
Wild Bill
Enthusiast
Depends on the year-check out this most excellent list of everything you always wanted to know about fluids but were afraid to ask:
http://www.yandros.com/Viper/ViperFluids.htm
Bill
Similar threads
