Mopar Performance Venom ECU Q's

[Timnineside]

Need info on the Mopar ECU. Pricing, details etc. I have only K&N drop in filter but have Borla cat back coming in for my 08 tomorrow. I did the cat delete and it through a CEL as suspected. What I would like to know:

Cost? Could I possibly buy a used one?

Does it need to be programmed? If so how?

Difficulty of install?

Void Warranty? (I'd assume no givin it's a Mopar part)

Results? From my readings it's not worth the money but for me to turn off the skip shift, better throttle response, and possibly more HP seems fair enough.

Any advice and pros/cons would be great!

Thanks!

-Tim

 

[anton28]

I just read a thread somwhere where a guy did a dyno comparison on the MOPAR ecu vs stock on a gen4. He got 6rwhp and 10rwtq. Dynoed the car 20 minuts apart on the same dyone without taking the car off.

 

[Timnineside]

Oh yeah I read that before too. I have been surfing threads but not finding all the answers. The ding dongs at the dealership here said 2hrs to install and "program". Sounded very unsure.

 

[Steve M]

Install info here:

http://forums.viperclub.org/threads...Help-Please!!?highlight=mopar+ecu+pcm+install

http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/621889-Mopar-Contoller/page2?highlight=mopar+controller

What it does here (along with the price):

https://www.viperpartsofamerica.com...-race-engine-controller-p5155254ab-p5155255ab

The price does not include the mandatory dealer calibration for the first install.

And from what I've read, it will void the warranty for the parts of the car that it affects (engine mainly).

 

[Timnineside]

Great info and thanks! Funny how much the info here and the dealership differs.....

So paying them $160 or so isn't bad for what they need to do. Although they did want $1230 for the part...

 

[ViperGeorge]

A few vendors sell the Mopar Controller including Bad Boyzz Garage and Viper Parts of America. My tech did the install at the same time he installed my ACR-X headers and high flows. Said it was straight forward. Haven't driven the car much since though and I haven't gotten it to the track yet.

 

[Viper Parts of America]

We would strongly recommend buying it directly from your dealership that is doing the programming. You won't have to pay for shipping and everything is right there. New is probably best as they are coded to the VIN when programmed. Honestly don't know how hard it is to reprogram them with a new VIN, but better safe than sorry.

 

[Timnineside]

We would strongly recommend buying it directly from your dealership that is doing the programming. You won't have to pay for shipping and everything is right there. New is probably best as they are coded to the VIN when programmed. Honestly don't know how hard it is to reprogram them with a new VIN, but better safe than sorry.

Great thanks! And thanks for the other advice as well!

I just hate paying these dealerships money for thier time spent educating themselves on my dollar and wish we had better knowledgeable dealers here in West MI!

I'll probaby give them a call and see if they can price match online pricing.

Thanks!

-Tim

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

The PCM cannot be reprogrammed once it is flashed with the VIN. Also you have to MAKE SURE that the dealer knows what they are doing or they can "brick" the PCM and you will be SOL because nothing Mopar sells has any type of warranty. The PCM will come with detailed instructions and some dealers think they know it all already, so insist that they read through and follow them to the T. The Viper is very sensitive to voltage and during this programming it is not a bad idea check battery condition before you start.

We would strongly recommend buying it directly from your dealership that is doing the programming. You won't have to pay for shipping and everything is right there. New is probably best as they are coded to the VIN when programmed. Honestly don't know how hard it is to reprogram them with a new VIN, but better safe than sorry.

 

[SYNFULL]

I bought a used Ecu because I am installing headers. What are the implications of using it if it is flashed with the original vin?
Thanks

 

[FrgMstr]

I bought a used Ecu because I am installing headers. What are the implications of using it if it is flashed with the original vin?
Thanks

Once it is flashed to the car's VIN number in its original form it CANNOT be flashed to another VIN without sending it in to Chrysler and I am not even sure they will do that. I think you might ought to look at getting your money back, either someone is trying to take advantage of you or just did not know it could not be reused. Or we are all just terribly misinformed.....


Bought my new Mopar PCM from a vendor here and took it to the local Dodge dealership that has a Viper tech and there was no issue with install.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

There are differences in the roadster and coupe PCMs after a VIN is flashed beyond that although I do not condone it they should work if installed with a throttle re learn. There is no way for anyone legally to re flash the PCMs VIN once it is done, so that is not even an option.

I bought a used Ecu because I am installing headers. What are the implications of using it if it is flashed with the original vin?
Thanks

 

[ACRucrazy]

Help me understand why the VIN is so important.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Legally it is tied to the car so since there could be a mileage discrepancy you have the ability to show actual use if you needed to.

Help me understand why the VIN is so important.

 

[ACRucrazy]

What happens to the mileage when I removed a Mopar PCM and re-install a stock PCM?

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Mileage will be what it was when the stock PCM was taken out. There is a place where the total actual mileage is stored, but it could cause a problem verifying if you sell the car, could cause other problems obviously.

What happens to the mileage when I removed a Mopar PCM and re-install a stock PCM?

 

[ACRucrazy]

Since the Viper does not use a Sentry Key immobilizer, what is to prevent a used MPP PCM from another Viper being installed and starting the car?

The VIN wont match and the mileage wont match within the PCM, I get that. Does anything prevent the PCM from actually starting the car?

 

[ipetrov]

I just read a thread somwhere where a guy did a dyno comparison on the MOPAR ecu vs stock on a gen4. He got 6rwhp and 10rwtq. Dynoed the car 20 minuts apart on the same dyone without taking the car off.

I remember reading somewhere (likely in the SRT Engineers Q&A's) that the Mopar ECU typically adds more torque to the mid range then up top, but I may be wrong. It also helps de-sensitize a little the otherwise extremely sensitive multiple electronic watchdogs of the Gen IV, hence the elimination of check engine lights with mods, etc.

One of the downsides is the elimination of deceleration popping, which a lot of owners like. Apparently Dick Winkles has never been a big fan of decel pop, as it sacrifices some engine efficiency.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Yes it will start and run fine.

Since the Viper does not use a Sentry Key immobilizer, what is to prevent a used MPP PCM from another Viper being installed and starting the car?

The VIN wont match and the mileage wont match within the PCM, I get that. Does anything prevent the PCM from actually starting the car?

 

[ACRucrazy]

So a used MPP PCM should be able to be installed.
Turn key on, hold throttle to floor for 5 seconds, shut key off, let off the throttle to complete the relearn of the DBW
Wait a min or two. Start car.
Mileage readout on the cluster should stay where it was prior to removing original PCM.
Original PCM will retain VIN and mileage at the time it was removed.

 

[redtanrt10]

Need info on the Mopar ECU. Pricing, details etc. I have only K&N drop in filter but have Borla cat back coming in for my 08 tomorrow. I did the cat delete and it through a CEL as suspected. What I would like to know:

Cost? Could I possibly buy a used one?

Does it need to be programmed? If so how?

Difficulty of install?

Void Warranty? (I'd assume no givin it's a Mopar part)

Results? From my readings it's not worth the money but for me to turn off the skip shift, better throttle response, and possibly more HP seems fair enough.

Any advice and pros/cons would be great!

Thanks!

-Tim

Tim, there a a number of threads on the board regarding the vemom ecu. I see Steve M gave you some of them. To your questions;

Mark says you can try and send used one to mopar so your vin can get reprogramed. I'd verify that with dodge as well as what the charge would be before you buy a used one. It has to be programmed to your car, the instructions sheet is a few pages and verify specific instructions, some on the board have written of problems with an incorrect install. Install and swap to stock is very easy, the hard part is having the scan tool and following the correct procedure to upload, download on the initial programing. The ECU has no warranty, lot's of disclosures saying that as well as off-road only, but void entire vehicle warranty, no way. As you noted the improvements, skip shift, throttle response, eliminate emission related CEL, slight hp trq (I got 9 hp/14 trq but I also have headers).

Downsides, you'll lose the exhaust popping on decel which is a deal killer for many here, the ECU wants 93 plus octane to work the best (we only have 91 here so I have to mix with $9.50 per gallon 100 octane to get to 94-95 which the computer really wants) It does work fine on 91, it just will pull timing. NOT emissions legal, you won't pass a smog test and I'm still not sure of swapping computers and re-learning sequence is a done deal to pass in place like here in CA.


The Venom controller is a no brainer upgrade if you have headers. As a stand alone you have to weigh the pro's and con's. Good luck, Mike

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

SRT will NOT reprogram them, and no the entire warranty will not be voided, but depending on the failure they at the dealer level can sure deny any claim that COULD be related to it.

Tim, there a a number of threads on the board regarding the vemom ecu. I see Steve M gave you some of them. To your questions;

Mark says you can try and send used one to mopar so your vin can get reprogramed. I'd verify that with dodge as well as what the charge would be before you buy a used one. It has to be programmed to your car, the instructions sheet is a few pages and verify specific instructions, some on the board have written of problems with an incorrect install. Install and swap to stock is very easy, the hard part is having the scan tool and following the correct procedure to upload, download on the initial programing. The ECU has no warranty, lot's of disclosures saying that as well as off-road only, but void entire vehicle warranty, no way. As you noted the improvements, skip shift, throttle response, eliminate emission related CEL, slight hp trq (I got 9 hp/14 trq but I also have headers).

Downsides, you'll lose the exhaust popping on decel which is a deal killer for many here, the ECU wants 93 plus octane to work the best (we only have 91 here so I have to mix with $9.50 per gallon 100 octane to get to 94-95 which the computer really wants) It does work fine on 91, it just will pull timing. NOT emissions legal, you won't pass a smog test and I'm still not sure of swapping computers and re-learning sequence is a done deal to pass in place like here in CA.


The Venom controller is a no brainer upgrade if you have headers. As a stand alone you have to weigh the pro's and con's. Good luck, Mike

 

[SYNFULL]

So I bought a used Mopar Performance ECU and I contacted the seller after reading this thread and asked about returning the pcm.
The seller wants me to try it first before returning it. Can I install it and do the throttle relearn or do I have to take it to a dealer and have it reprogrammed before I can try it out?
Has anyone ever installed a used one?

I am not really worried about voiding the warranty as I have had other work done to the car.

Sorry to keep bringing this up but there is a vast grey area surrounding this.

Thanks

 

[Timnineside]

Good Luck and keep posted. If I find any info on the used one I will PM you. In another note will you PM what you paid for that used one? I see new are just over $1000

-Tim

 

[PirateViper]

Dayuuuummmmmm ...I put high flows on before I knew it might throw engine code,which it is, and was told a mopar ecu at 1100 bucks would correct it but this all sounds kinda sketchy.

 

[swexlin]

So I bought a used Mopar Performance ECU and I contacted the seller after reading this thread and asked about returning the pcm.
The seller wants me to try it first before returning it. Can I install it and do the throttle relearn or do I have to take it to a dealer and have it reprogrammed before I can try it out?
Has anyone ever installed a used one?

I am not really worried about voiding the warranty as I have had other work done to the car.

Sorry to keep bringing this up but there is a vast grey area surrounding this.

Thanks

Just be careful that you stay emissions exempt here in PA (under 5000 miles annual) because it will not pass.

 

[Steve M]

Dayuuuummmmmm ...I put high flows on before I knew it might throw engine code,which it is, and was told a mopar ecu at 1100 bucks would correct it but this all sounds kinda sketchy.

What exactly sounds sketchy? Don't buy it used, find a tech that knows how to follow instructions, don't expect to pass plug-in emissions tests, and don't expect your entire warranty to remain in tact, if you still have a warranty. It'll certainly correct your problem, at a price of course.

 

[Timnineside]

A friend put me in touch with a friend of his from a Dodge dealer that is hitting me for $1100 installed!!! Pretty excited to see if there are gains etc.

Anyone know if you can turn off the TPMS with the new ECU??

 

[SRT Engineers]

There are really 4 major things learned by the Mopar PCM in order to operate your vehicle correctly. First the VIN... The VIN tells many modules in your car how to operate correctly. The Door glass drop for example won't work correctly if the VIN says its a coupe, and you put it in a convertible (or vice versa). The VIN is only allowed to be programmed once via the dealers tools (for various reasons of security, etc). Second, the throttle learn - This is an important function of the PCM to learn the nuances of the two throttle on your particular engine. Third, the pedal learn - This is also important for the same reasons as the throttle, it is part of the By-Wire security to make sure that all sensors involved with your foot getting to the throttles are in check. There are small differences between all such sensors, and it could be possible to have limp-outs if you start mixing and matching. Fourth -> Misfire TEC learn - This is a critical learn that detects small differences in the way a particular engine rotates, and how that rotation is detected... the crank targets are machined into every crank individually and somewhat uniquely. This learn matches the crank to a PCM. The last three learns can all be re-done to match a PCM to a given engine via the dealer tool (Starscan / WiTech), but the VIN would remain an issue. Not a big issue as long as you go coupe->coupe or convertible->convertible. The last issue is tracking odometer... you are likely to loose your tracking odometer as proof of your main odometer with all of this swapping around. There is no change to TPMS (that is a different module). Keep in mind that this is an off-road use only part, it will not past state emissions tests... it also only provides gains in conjunction with other parts (headers, porting, exhaust changes). It also needs the best unleaded fuel possible, or the knock system may even reduce power in an effort to keep your engine safe.

 

[ACRucrazy]

There are really 4 major things learned by the Mopar PCM in order to operate your vehicle correctly.

First the VIN... The VIN tells many modules in your car how to operate correctly. The Door glass drop for example won't work correctly if the VIN says its a coupe, and you put it in a convertible (or vice versa). The VIN is only allowed to be programmed once via the dealers tools (for various reasons of security, etc).

Second, the throttle learn - This is an important function of the PCM to learn the nuances of the two throttle on your particular engine.

Third, the pedal learn - This is also important for the same reasons as the throttle, it is part of the By-Wire security to make sure that all sensors involved with your foot getting to the throttles are in check. There are small differences between all such sensors, and it could be possible to have limp-outs if you start mixing and matching.

Fourth -> Misfire TEC learn - This is a critical learn that detects small differences in the way a particular engine rotates, and how that rotation is detected... the crank targets are machined into every crank individually and somewhat uniquely. This learn matches the crank to a PCM.

The last three learns can all be re-done to match a PCM to a given engine via the dealer tool (Starscan / WiTech), but the VIN would remain an issue. Not a big issue as long as you go coupe->coupe or convertible->convertible. The last issue is tracking odometer... you are likely to loose your tracking odometer as proof of your main odometer with all of this swapping around. There is no change to TPMS (that is a different module). Keep in mind that this is an off-road use only part, it will not past state emissions tests... it also only provides gains in conjunction with other parts (headers, porting, exhaust changes). It also needs the best unleaded fuel possible, or the knock system may even reduce power in an effort to keep your engine safe.

Thank you for the great reply. With that, if anyone wants a convertible Mopar PCM, I have one for a 2008 that I was going to put in my coupe once the snow melts.. looks like I will be now looking for a coupe PCM.

One question I do have for the engineers since we are on the subject, just to put it to rest. Can the Mopar PCMs from the different years be interchanged? 2008-2010?
If not what makes them different? Thanks!