Disturbed
Viper Owner
Don't forget about the rockers...they are junk too.
My Paxton Story....
- Thread starter SquadX
- Start date
Don't forget about the rockers...they are junk too.
Pull all your spark plugs and see what they tell you.
With forced Induction you can usually see problems on your sparkplugs. Color, balls of metal on ceramic, tips missing etc.
Once in a while you even find a problem before it becomes serious.
Ted
With forced Induction you can usually see problems on your sparkplugs. Color, balls of metal on ceramic, tips missing etc.
Once in a while you even find a problem before it becomes serious.
Ted
Thanks again Plum. I did the test and could barely feel any exhaust at 1 foot away. What damage can come from having driven with the cats in this condition as I m sure this happened last week and I have been driving it most of the weekend with some drag races in there? The car felt low on power down low and restricted also.
Never mind, I find the answer to plugged cats = a ruined engine. Haven't noticed any black smoke so keeping my fingers crossed.
Any one care to enlighten me on how/why they get plugged?
Never mind, I find the answer to plugged cats = a ruined engine. Haven't noticed any black smoke so keeping my fingers crossed.
Any one care to enlighten me on how/why they get plugged?
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I have JM stage 3 heads with jesel rockers.
squad X, you have a PM
bottom line is park it now ! Heat INSIDE an engine is BAD. nothing good will come of you driving it, the heat that was going to exit the rear of your car is now backing up INTO the engine cause the cats are clogged or close to it. mine was pushing air about 10"-12" out of the tips too.
bottom line is park it now ! Heat INSIDE an engine is BAD. nothing good will come of you driving it, the heat that was going to exit the rear of your car is now backing up INTO the engine cause the cats are clogged or close to it. mine was pushing air about 10"-12" out of the tips too.
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Landman
Viper Owner
So you're saying there is no Viper with the Paxton out there making more than 960 crank hp? Regardless of the engine mod's? I don't know personally, I'm actually still dreaming of 600rwhp, but if people are wrong about the Paxton Dyno numbers, aren't the Roe Dyno numbers false hope also?
Sweet Ride
Enthusiast
I'm still waiting for the actual math...
Seems like there would be about a numerous variables to this equation, such as:
Volume of air in and out of the engine at a certain RPM.
What head/intake/exhaust work does the engine have?
Nitrous in addition to the blower would get you over the quoted number.
I'm also not sure about the parasitic loss in addition to driveline loss. I would say more like 150 total loss. At the quoted 13% loss you would still be around 835HP and I would bet there are Paxton cars out there with more than that.
Anyone have some dyno sheets to share???
Here's a quote from Paxton:
"The NOVI’s unique impeller design and compact scroll housing provide the capability of producing 26 PSIG of boost and supporting up to 970 horsepower."
It doesn't however go into much more detail than that...
Another Paxton quote:
"With an increase of up to 171 horsepower, Paxton's Dodge Viper GTS supercharging system is the ultimate for the street in a bolt-on package."
That's on a completely stock engine though. Surely head/exhaust/other work would increase that number.
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The compression test kit I have requires me to start the engine with all the spark plugs removed. Is there another type of compression test kit I should get or am I fine with this one. Never done a compression test. My kit says crank the car, let it go through 4 strokes or until the pressure stops climbing then proceed to the next cylinder. Does this sound correct?
GTS-R 001
Enthusiast
Well I pulled all the spark plugs and they all look brown. Im still in the process of doing the compression test (had to stop as its 2 am) and I did 7 of the 10. Doesnt look to good so far:
1-190 2-200
3-150 4-155
5-155
7-184
9-184
When i did the test, I pulled all plugs and cranked engine for 4 revolutions but did not disable the fuel pump which I am reading on here that I should have (Directions didnt say anyting about removing the fuel pump fuse). Engine felt warm with I did test but car had not been driven in 4 hours before I did the test.
The engine was rebuilt with JE pistons, stock rods, heads are JM stage 3 with Jesel rockers. Guess the cats were not plugged as when they pulled them off, they looked clean and you could see right through them. If this engine has to be rebuilt, I am going to shoot myself.
1-190 2-200
3-150 4-155
5-155
7-184
9-184
When i did the test, I pulled all plugs and cranked engine for 4 revolutions but did not disable the fuel pump which I am reading on here that I should have (Directions didnt say anyting about removing the fuel pump fuse). Engine felt warm with I did test but car had not been driven in 4 hours before I did the test.
The engine was rebuilt with JE pistons, stock rods, heads are JM stage 3 with Jesel rockers. Guess the cats were not plugged as when they pulled them off, they looked clean and you could see right through them. If this engine has to be rebuilt, I am going to shoot myself.
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Don't shoot yourself.
If all your plugs are brown that's a good sign. White means lean and maybe melted pistons.
If all your driver's side cylinders are lower (on average) than the passenger side it usually is a sign of high mileage but not always. That's why a slant six leans to one side.
Add a couple drops of oil and see if the compression goes up, or not. If it does then the problem is probably your rings. If it doesn't then it's probably you valves. It does look like you'll need to get a leakdown test done as well.
You know that you want to undo the 4 small bolts and remove the top of the heater assy to get at those last three plugs?
Different engine temps will show different readings. Redo probably.
Ted
If all your plugs are brown that's a good sign. White means lean and maybe melted pistons.
If all your driver's side cylinders are lower (on average) than the passenger side it usually is a sign of high mileage but not always. That's why a slant six leans to one side.
Add a couple drops of oil and see if the compression goes up, or not. If it does then the problem is probably your rings. If it doesn't then it's probably you valves. It does look like you'll need to get a leakdown test done as well.
You know that you want to undo the 4 small bolts and remove the top of the heater assy to get at those last three plugs?
Different engine temps will show different readings. Redo probably.
Ted
Just did another compression test this morning. Engine was cool to the touch as oppose to last night it was slightly warm to the touch.
2- 225 1-216
4- 213 3-222
6- 215 5-215
8- 220 7-215
10- 210 9-225
Im confused as all hell now but since the engine was cool, these might not be as accurate as I understand you want to perform this test when the engine is at operating temps. All plugs brown with a couple showing some traces or dark brown/black along the edges of the tip. I checked a site which shows the color of spark plugs in different conditions and all mine checked out good.
I pulled the fuel relay plug when I did this test.
When I did the test last night I could smell fuel about mid way through so I am not sure if that affects todays test or not.
2- 225 1-216
4- 213 3-222
6- 215 5-215
8- 220 7-215
10- 210 9-225
Im confused as all hell now but since the engine was cool, these might not be as accurate as I understand you want to perform this test when the engine is at operating temps. All plugs brown with a couple showing some traces or dark brown/black along the edges of the tip. I checked a site which shows the color of spark plugs in different conditions and all mine checked out good.
I pulled the fuel relay plug when I did this test.
When I did the test last night I could smell fuel about mid way through so I am not sure if that affects todays test or not.
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just the standard light tapping of the rockers. Car sounds normal even when driving besides the exhaust note being a little crackly sounding under wot. Sounds like u flooring it in 4th at 30 mph. Just an example.
Also should mention car sounds and acts normal when I rev it in neutral. Only notice the low power when driving and after reading some post on here relating to a slipping clutch, my car is displaying those characteristics. I'm buying new plugs today (broke most trying to get them out) and will install, bring the car up to operating temp and redo the compression test for the cylinders that read lower on the first test or check them all if I have time.
Is driving the car a bad thing to do now as if I can avoid paying $260 to have the car towed to my viper tech I will and drive it there but if I shouldn't, then it's getting flatbedded to him.
Also should mention car sounds and acts normal when I rev it in neutral. Only notice the low power when driving and after reading some post on here relating to a slipping clutch, my car is displaying those characteristics. I'm buying new plugs today (broke most trying to get them out) and will install, bring the car up to operating temp and redo the compression test for the cylinders that read lower on the first test or check them all if I have time.
Is driving the car a bad thing to do now as if I can avoid paying $260 to have the car towed to my viper tech I will and drive it there but if I shouldn't, then it's getting flatbedded to him.
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As always, when it doubt - tow. Usually that's just a waste of money, but ...
Since you've been driving it while it had a problem you've probably already done whatever damage and if you drive easy at low rpms boost etc. there PROBABLY won't be any difference.
Being a 10 cyl engine it is much more difficult to hear misfires and low power cylinders compared to a V8.
If there's no knocking noises and the oil is clean perhaps your Paxton has a problem. Do you have a boost guage?
Ted
Since you've been driving it while it had a problem you've probably already done whatever damage and if you drive easy at low rpms boost etc. there PROBABLY won't be any difference.
Being a 10 cyl engine it is much more difficult to hear misfires and low power cylinders compared to a V8.
If there's no knocking noises and the oil is clean perhaps your Paxton has a problem. Do you have a boost guage?
Ted
Funny u mention that cause the Paxton sound ( whine) isn't as noticable as before. How do I check. I believe the car has an electronic boost gauge. Never used it but I'll play with it later today. I'm still praying it's the clutch has that's an easy fix and I had planned on upgrading anyway as it didn't seem to hard the power
Boost could be leaking out any of the clamps or there coulde be a hole in the ic, plumbing, etc. That's unusual though. Can you check the oil in the Paxton's gear box for filings? Loosen the belt and see if there's movement in the pulley up and down?
Most Paxton's are minimal for belt tension and most guys replace the belt tensioner right away. Perhaps there is also a wider belt system?
Ted
Most Paxton's are minimal for belt tension and most guys replace the belt tensioner right away. Perhaps there is also a wider belt system?
Ted
If the plugs and compression/leakdown test is good and the power is way down the most likely reason is tuning/computer. I'm have no familiarity with the splitsecond system.
Can't help yah there. But buy a boost guage and see what it tells yah. Ted
Can't help yah there. But buy a boost guage and see what it tells yah. Ted
I think the confusion lies in the fact that at a given dyno reading at the crank, you are not seeing the fact that the paxton or roe units are using engine horsepower to generate a given number. If you could power the paxton unit with something other than than the actual engines power, you could potentially see up to 100 additional horsepower at the crank. This is another reason why at any given crankshaft horsepower when comparing a N/A engine to a forced induction engine, the forced induction engine is actually under greater load. This also answers the question as to why you can run nearly 600 rwhp on the stock fuel system with a N/A motor but can't on a similar rwhp Paxton set up. The Paxton set up is actually producing much more hp, but it's being consumed by the Paxton unit and therefore not seen on the dyno. The 960 hp number given by Paxton may or may not account for the power consumed by the blower. One would imagine that the loss would already be factored into their claims. One other thing to think about, when ever you read "up to 171hp" or "up to" any given hp is that it may or may not include modifications. That's just something I've learned over the years when most mods did'nt live up to their expectations. Certainly not a dig on Paxton, but just an observation based on years of burning cash.
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2001 GTS
Enthusiast
Did you end up using my cam?
Hey 2001 GTS. Yes I did in my Bumble Bee. Sounds nasty as hell and performed well. Bad news is the car was totalled 960 miles after the engine rebuild. I didnt even get to try it out on a fully broken in engine. So lady not playing attention or playing to much attention to my car and not the road merges right into me (pass. side door). We both spin around three times and two more hits occurred during that time. Damage was to hood, front and rear bumper, pass. door, pass side sill. both quarter panels so you can imagine the repair cost. Someone is going to get a nice engine. For those who swap cams and put in the stock 708, I would say get a Greg Good cam instead, Nice sound and performance. Dont get me wrong the 708 is nice and its hard to beat the cost but....
If it didnt cost so much in labor, I would swap the 708 out for another GG Cam.
Again thanks 2001 GTS for the cam, it was nice while I had the short pleasure of enjoy it.
If it didnt cost so much in labor, I would swap the 708 out for another GG Cam.
Again thanks 2001 GTS for the cam, it was nice while I had the short pleasure of enjoy it.
2001 GTS
Enthusiast
Oh damn man, that *****...that cam was pure joy. Sounded mean as hell but still drove like stock. RIP Bumblebee!
Anyone who wants to cam swap with a 708 is crazy not to talk to Greg Good first!
