My SRT-C (Coupe) 1st At The Track..and 1st Cop-Stop!?

[JonB]

Well, today is BUSY-CRABBY Monday, and I'm posting anyway, cannot stifle longer!

Pre-Production SRT-Cs have been at all the Zone Rondys, but I dunno if anyone got to drive em. At F-16 West-ZR they did NOT allow drives.

I took my SRT-C to PIR-Portland on Friday. Cool and a bit damp. I had logged almost 5000 track miles there as of 5 years ago, and then quit keeping track.

My 96 GTS is almost stock, becasue it was #1 back in 96. My 06 is still stock.

On my 2nd session, I easily beat my personal best time in my GTS w/ slicks, in my SRT-C on OE tires. But that does NOT say enough. Why? I left a LOT of performance on the table.....still learning the SRT-C. The car has far more to give than I was ready to demand. My GTS is gliding and straining on the edge, but the SRT-C is faster while not even trying hard.

I vaguely remember the SRT-10 back in '03. Yeah, it had great power and brakes....but the SRT-C has SOMETHING ELSE...... Finesse? It just FEELS better. It feels better EVERYWHERE, especially under braking. And adding exit power. And at Turn-In. And turn-in WILL BE BETTER when my chassis guru changes camber, caster, and tow. My fellow instructor corps (25 guys) actually have me a short but sincere applause when I arrived in the rain, and then tracked her right away. My BMW student wanted his orientation laps in my SRT-C, not his M-3! After the track dried, I let 2 friends drive it 1 lap, and they were wowed as well.

Spectators LOVED that Ralph Gilles autographed underhood, along with his trademark Coupe sillouette cartoon. Several asked me if I was worried about the Z-06. I replied, "NAH....Im a unique guy. My wife has a Z-06. The new Z06 looks like every other C-6 Vette, so I wont hang my head...I'm still in a VIPER ! I coulda hadda V-8. I CHOSE a Viper."

1st Bad News: My HVAC control conked out. Stuck on DEFROST now. THAT makes a hot cockpit!

When coming home, the cops stopped me for a wussy 43 in a 35. So I think I may have the FIRST LAW ENFORCEMENT STOP in a SRT-C ! After dark. Pitch dark. They both know me, were very friendly, and they apologized IMMEDIATELY saying 'dont worry, we're just bored.' The expired MI temp plate was not even mentioned. They had heard about the car and wanted to see it. They had even waited til an uninhabited stretch to pull me over, to save any possible embarassment. Only 2 cars saw me, and I blasted past them both after my release, lest they think I was guilty or remorseful!

My only guilt or remorse is that my Viper cost more than my house did. Again.

BE SAFE OUT THERE ! And ENJOY THIS BEAST NOW, BROTHERS !

 

[gts_2001]

Awesome story JonB!

Can't say that I've experienced anything even close so far as I'm just approaching the 500 mile break in and am a little gun shy about getting on it ******* cold Michigan roads. Without a doubt, though, the car does turn heads, gets honks, thumbs up, hollers, yells and yelps!! I would agree that the car has much more to offer than my GTS or SRT Vert did. I'm anxious to see 80+ degree days and warm pavement again next spring to really find out what this baby has to give.

Stay safe, bro!

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Pre-Production SRT-Cs have been at all the Zone Rondys...

Correction: There were no pre-production Coupes, Comp Coupes, or anything besides the Carbon Concept at the Southwest Zone Rendezvous - despite a lot of begging by Yours Truly. Go figure.

As always, great story and thanks for sharing!

 

[Vic]

What is it that makes the SRTC better than your GTS? Is it because of these factors-
1. Its about 100 pounds lighter? (It is 100# lighter than a GTS, right?)
2. Its got 505 HP?
3. Its got better brakes?
4. Better suspension geometry/longer wheelbase?
All the above?

I'm just wondering what it is, that you can feel while on track. Sometimes magazine tests, and numbers alone don't tell the whole story.

 

[GR8_ASP]

But why does it perform better than an SRT-10 convertible? It is not lighter, it does not have better brakes, hp or ...

Is this "finesse" real or imaginary? I mean what real differences are there that could make Jon think the Coupe has this so-called "finesse."

 

[sween]

What is it that makes the SRTC better than your GTS? Is it because of these factors-
1. Its about 100 pounds lighter? (It is 100# lighter than a GTS, right?)
2. Its got 505 HP?
3. Its got better brakes?
4. Better suspension geometry/ longer wheelbase ?
All the above?

I'm just wondering what it is, that you can feel while on track. Sometimes magazine tests, and numbers alone don't tell the whole story.

one correction 510 horsepower and i know that its shorter in overall length but i didnt know it had a longer wheelbase.

 

[FikseGTS]

stiffer due to the roof? aerodynamics? lighter wheels? better looks?

But why does it perform better than an SRT-10 convertible? It is not lighter, it does not have better brakes, hp or ...

Is this "finesse" real or imaginary? I mean what real differences are there that could make Jon think the Coupe has this so-called "finesse."

 

[ivanrho]

You'd have to drive one to know the difference. We ALL used the thing the RTs were great. They were and still are for what they represent. 90s technology. They were until the SRTs came out. (Before I get toasted, let me refer to performance and handling) Now with the new Coupes, I can just imagine what it must feel like. The new Vipers just perform so much better, and they really feel like night and day. It's just technology taking it's course with better suspension, brakes, engineering...etc.

In all honesty, I don't feel safe going over 160 in an RT, but in an SRT, I could go top it out.

My humble .02

 

[Dawg2Snake]

I will shed some FUTURE light on this, having both the convertible and coupe, but I have never driven the GTS. Currently, my coupe is still under cover in the garage due to rain (in Arizona? go figure...), and I want to drive it as little as possible until the stripes cure and I can put the 3M clear bra on the front. Way too many rock chips in AZ, and I don't want a single one - ever! I digress... More comparison to come.

 

[Inferno]

I can't help but see this post as a "my car is better than all of your rt10's, gts's, and srt-10 vert's!" IMO, you seem to be really excited about your new car, and much of your opinion is very bias.

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

We've got to believe the Dodge is improving the Vipers every year. That's what car manufactures do.
I think Jon is probably one of the top 10 best people to compare the SRTC to the GTS. After all he's hasn't been driving the SRT vert for the last three years to say he's bias. It took the SRTC to get him out of the GTS. I also believe if Jon didn’t think the SRTC was that much better than the GTS, he’d sell it. IMO

But he does have my ear and I’m very curious to hear what he thinks of this new beast.

 

[Vic]

Re: My SRT-C (Coupe) 1st At The Track..and 1st Cop-Stop!?

I don't think JonB is biased, he's a big fan of all Vipers, going back from "day one"!

If the new ones are better than the older ones, so be it. Thats a good thing!

Myself, I'm just curious as to what it is exactly that makes the new ones better. I did drive a SRT10 at the Western Zone Rendevous, and I couldn't beleive the brakes. They were extreme! I understand that the weight transfers over the front wheels better in the Gen3, and that helps the fronts bite the asphalt better. Rotors and calipers can only help so much, if the fronts are traction limited, bigger rotors and calipers alone don't get the car to stop quicker. The increased weight transfer allowed by the suspension is also a big factor.

Thats the kind of issues I'm curious about.

 

[Janni]

Herb Helbig said one of the biggest (best) changes in the SRT was the braking performance and that was 2 fold - better brakes - but mostly the SRT suspension was freed up a lot from the GTS.

I'll have to agree - as I felt the SRT stayed planted a ton better than my GTS - in aggressive driving / autocrossing. I could do things in the SRT that would have had the back end come around about 10 times in the GTS. THAT is suspension - and allowing the car to both put downthe power and stay balanced and planted during braking.

 

[M. ROD]

The "Finesse" issue, by various automotive media:




"Increased platform rigidity was a happy byproduct of the enclosed bodywork. Torsional rigidity goes up about 30 percent. The stiffer body/chassis combo makes itself known in two ways. First is by delivering slightly quicker chassis responses than the roadster, and second by all the creaks and rattles you don't hear.

The bite of four big Brembo calipers pinching 14.0-inch rotors had the tail weaving slightly down the hill into Turn Two(Laguna Seca), where the nose would swing obediently into the first of the two apexes. Then a gradual squeeze on the accelerator (don't mash this car's throttle if you know what's good for you) pinned the tail for a big thrust down the road to Three. There's some power-induced rotation available at the pedal to help the car out of Two, but it isn't as pronounced as in the convertible Viper.

We tried that softtop car by way of comparison, and although the convertible is as much fun as ever, it likes to hang out its tail on the end of the engine's seemingly bottomless tide of torque. The coupe was never a sure thing, according to SRT director Dan Knott, and the car was, after all, designed first as a convertible. So the coupe gained some structural rigidity when the double-bubble roof went on, with a negligible change in weight."

 

[Supercharged Vipermad]

I can't help but see this post as a "my car is better than all of your rt10's, gts's, and srt-10 vert's!" IMO, you seem to be really excited about your new car, and much of your opinion is very bias.

Huh!?!?!?! Biased? Yeah...maybe in favor of all Viper Owners. Not trying to be mean, but Jon has probably logged my track miles in a Viper than most non-race-types with purposse-built cars. I am not quite sure I follow where you would think JonB has the "my car is better...." mentality. He's had them all, and can accurately compare (he still has the 96 GTS...with pace Car strobes and all).

Very perplexing.

BTW....NICE avatar (finally!!) MY BAD!!!

 

[GR8_ASP]

Does not sound like he had lots of miles in a Gen III though. I still question the degree of improvement from a convertible to a coupe. The creaking comment above was all wet. My Gen I creaks and moans when going over large bumps slowly. The Gen III does not. It is much stiffer than the Gen II coupe.


BTW 30% stiffer when the SRT was already phenomenally stiff is not saying much. I still say BS on the substantial degree of improvement versus the SRT-10 convertible.

 

[Y2K10 SRT#39]

What Janni Said....
Go back and read it...
and BELIEVE it!!
PBR

 

[Inferno]

I can't help but see this post as a "my car is better than all of your rt10's, gts's, and srt-10 vert's!" IMO, you seem to be really excited about your new car, and much of your opinion is very bias.

Huh!?!?!?! Biased? Yeah...maybe in favor of all Viper Owners. Not trying to be mean, but Jon has probably logged my track miles in a Viper than most non-race-types with purposse-built cars. I am not quite sure I follow where you would think JonB has the "my car is better...." mentality. He's had them all, and can accurately compare (he still has the 96 GTS...with pace Car strobes and all).

Very perplexing.

BTW....NICE avatar (finally!!) MY BAD!!!

Just an opinion from someone who does not know Jon, (un-bias). I meant no dis-respect to Jon and I don't question his experience on the track. I just don't see how it could be that much better than a 06 srt-vert, when there is no performance increase. I just thought it may be new car excitement, something we have all been through. Maybe I got a tad insulted when it was said over, and over how much better it is than the GTS, what can I say. Thanks for the avatar man, I appreciate it!

 

[GR8_ASP]

What Janni Said....
Go back and read it...
and BELIEVE it!!
PBR

Her comment was in comparison to a GTS. Jon's remark that I reacted to was in comparison to an SRT. I just cannot believe a perceivable difference due to the roof.

Here is Jon's quote "I vaguely remember the SRT-10 back in '03. Yeah, it had great power and brakes....but the SRT-C has SOMETHING ELSE...... Finesse? It just FEELS better. It feels better EVERYWHERE, especially under braking. And adding exit power. And at Turn-In."

I say yadda, yadda, yadda. He can vaguely remember a car 2 years ago but is clear that the coupe is better at EVERYTHING. I sincerely doubt it. Has to be new car emotions. The roof cannot make that much difference.

 

[Janni]

I actually think that Jon is STILL comparing the SRT-C to the GTS - as those are the 2 cars that he has the most experience with. The lap time comments are DEFINITELY compared against his GTS "pacecar". I believe that his reference to the SRT-10 convertible was an aside and that his limited seat time in it - he did not remember the awesomeness of the handling. Not particularly surprising, since the '03 was probably just driven at Nashville and during a Zone Rendezvous on a fairly small autocross course.

I suspect that the coupe does handle better than the convertible - due to the stiffness, etc. But also just a psychological factor of having a "lid" and feeling more secure, and thus - able to get a higher percentage of performance out of the car. Just my $.02

 

[JonB]

If you think I had ANY "Mine Is Better" message, you really flunked reading comprehension on this one. I simply posted my 1st impressions, to share my 1st track drive, of my SRT-C. I admit that I do adhere to the wisdom of Crosby-STILLS-Nash-Young: "LOVE THE ONE YOU'RE WITH" but my feedback is objective.

Like I hinted, it is hard to quantify WHY the SRT-C feels better than the SRT-10, or most anything else I have driven. (Save for an F-430 recently). It just DOES. I think anyone who has serious seat-time will feel the same, and post similiarly.

Im lucky enuf to have driven lots of Vipers: 2 VCCs, 3 SRT-10s, and dozens and dozens of GTSs / RT10s of Gen 2 and Gen 1. As a VCA-PIR-SIR instructor (and early-years Viper Days instructor) lots of folks honored me to drive their cars (Right, Janni!?) I am fortunate to be able to give a Viper-specific comparo, at no cost to you, with a money-back guarantee if not delighted. You pay $1 for a magazine, right ?! RonS: You dont NEED a 'lot of miles' to do an OPINION. The proof is 80-100 'journalist's' we listen to for their no-miles opinions.

I was VERY fortunate to particiapte in AUG-02(AND POST HERE) the 1st-ever Non-Press "Engineering Evaluation" of the SRT-10, allowed by PVO. I loved the PERFORMANCE. My early '03 SRT-10 (#61) was cockpit-noisy, less stiff, cowl-shaking (not rattley) and the build quality of #61 was NOT great. The cockpit was death-valley hot. The fenders were mis-aligned. Vs. a GTS, performance was
HUGE. Vs GTS the apperance was/is **-hum.

But the SRT-C has better chassis stiffness, and better handling as a result. This stability helps under hard braking, and turn-in. The wheels are 35 lbs/set lighter, so the steering and shocks respond with a lighter feel. REAL FACTS! The cockpit accoustics make it a great traveler, and my favorite Viper ever.

As others pointed out, I still have my GTS. I still love it. My wife commented that "You went out to look at the new '96GTS a dozen times a day in 1996, but you have not fixated on the SRT-C nearly as much." So there is her unbiased opinion! I also loved my 92 a lot. Said I would NEVER EVER SELL IT! But what many dont know is that my 92 is now owned by Lee Iacocca....he invited me down to take a new photo for my website.... I hope I can take him up on it. I would gladly aquire another nice Gen 1, Gen 2, or SRT-C. I am not a big SRT-10 fan, however. It just does not GRAB my emotions as much as 92-02 and SRT-C and VCC.

If I have any bias, it is toward ALL Vipers.....realizing THE YEAR MATTERS, but the passion is the same. Love The One YOU'RE with !

 

[Smog Dog]

Jon B---Thanks for taking the time to post--both times. It's a good read. I'm waiting patiently for my SRT-C.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Good point about the wheel weights. That is probably the cause for any difference noted. Doubtful the stiffness is noticeable - they are both bricks. BTW were any of the SRT-10's you drove with lighter wheels (eg copperhead style)?

 

[JonB]

Good point about the wheel weights. That is probably the cause for any difference noted. Doubtful the stiffness is noticeable - they are both bricks. BTW were any of the SRT-10's you drove with lighter wheels (eg copperhead style)?

I also forgot to mention the SRT-C aero-advantage vs the convertible. The SRT-C is planted at 155-160, my top speed...the SRT-10 feels light at 145-150.

The SRT-C aero-vantage in the rear is probably a benefit as slow as 75 mph. I am unaware of CD stats or specs, but the weight-distribution MAY be better... the car feels BALANCED better. The stats must be 'somehwere'. JUST AN OPINION.

No, I did NOT drive any 05 SRT-10s.

 

[radta7]

Greaqt posts, Thanks!

 

[ACR steve]

JonB.,,,,,damn bring that baby to the Northeast I want to drive it .............pleaseeee

 

[VENOMAHOLIC]

Excellent posts JonB!

 

[Cris]

I also forgot to mention the SRT-C aero-advantage vs the convertible. The SRT-C is planted at 155-160, my top speed...the SRT-10 feels light at 145-150.

The SRT-C aero-vantage in the rear is probably a benefit as slow as 75 mph. I am unaware of CD stats or specs, but the weight-distribution MAY be better... the car feels BALANCED better. The stats must be 'somehwere'. JUST AN OPINION.

No, I did NOT drive any 05 SRT-10s.

So what are the stats? I thought the SRT-10 convertible had a 0.40 Cd, which is only marginally higher than the Gen II GTS (obviously roof up). So how much better can the coupe be. I also thought the convertible had positive down force, again with the top up. So does anyone have facts that back up these claims? I do not believe the weight distribution would be measurably different.