Need to vent!

[GodShall]

OK, I know Im new here but I have to say that these prices on mods from most of the distributors are a joke. I understand the pay to play mentality but cmon, $2000+ for headers. At best they cost $300 to make.

Do I get a friendly "reach-around" with that..

I guess owning a viper puts a big sucker on your forehead. I enjoying wasting my money as much as the next guy but damn; $18,000 to grab 600hp. For $18,000 I could turn my vette into the space shuttle for crying out loud.

Is it because the market is so small due to the amount of cars made? I just dont get it. Done my venting!! Guess Ill stay stock

 

[TCKTPLZ]

Viper tax.

 

[Shelby3]

A lot of it is the small market. All of it is what the market will support. You can get 600hp for much less than 18K.

 

[Fast Freddy]

OK, I know Im new here but I have to say that these prices on mods from most of the distributors are a joke. I understand the pay to play mentality but cmon, $2000+ for headers. At best they cost $300 to make.

Do I get a friendly "reach-around" with that..

I guess owning a viper puts a big sucker on your forehead. I enjoying wasting my money as much as the next guy but damn; $18,000 to grab 600hp. For $18,000 I could turn my vette into the space shuttle for crying out loud.

Is it because the market is so small due to the amount of cars made? I just dont get it. Done my venting!! Guess Ill stay stock

i totally agree with you about the price gouging in the viper aftermarket. its like the oil comapanies way overcharging us for gasoline. at the end of the day its not gonna stop me from modding my viper though. i have only $10,000 invested in my turbocharged dragbike and that includes the cost to purchase the bike used. my turbo bike will smoke the crap out of my viper on a 0-150 mph run.

 

[STUGOTS]

A lot of it is the small market. All of it is what the market will support. You can get 600hp for much less than 18K.

ohh way much less then 18K


I'd say about $7,400 if you went with the Roe clower for 600RWHP (forced)

or

about $10,200 if you wanted N/A for 600RWHP

OR you can do what im doing (slowly but surely) BOTH

N/A mods which include (these will get you MORE then 600RWHP but will cost more as well)

70mm Throttle bodies
1.7 rockers /w pushrods
vec 2
headers (B&B jet hot coated)
cat back (B&B)
HF cats
HF filters (S&B)
3" smooth tubes
Heads (greg Good's heads)
Cam (also from Greg)
alm flywheel
542 ci stroker kit (sometime down the road)
centerforce clutch
fluidyne alm radiator
Fuel pump upgrade
fuel inject upgrade
fuel lines and rail upgrade
short throw shifter

THEN go with a Roe blower with about 16 Psi (since you got the better flowing heads and forged bottom end from the stroker you can handle it) with water **** kit.

THATS what im doing and I expect it to be a beast!!

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

 

[got one]

I have to aggree with the headers part of that. 2k on average, is way to expensive for most of the headers out there. IMHO.

 

[Gerald Levin]

I have NO mods, but I'm sure it sux to pay big bucks for mods (due to small production numbers) and it would double suk when it comes time to sell and only get 25 cents on the dollar for your mods. I'm not against mods, in fact sometime I hope to buy a modded car for a deep discount on ebay.

 

[Warfang]

in fact sometime I hope to buy a modded car for a deep discount on ebay.

That's what I ended up doing. It's almost like modded vipers are cheaper. I guess that's because you're taking a bit of a chance on a modded car. Mine came with a TNT package. I bought my Viper for fun and not it's collecting value, so I set to maximize my purchase.

Now that I want to mod it some more (can never get enough power)... Viper tax makes it hard to justify.

 

[ROCKET62]

If you can find a car with the exact mods you are looking for and everything is well documented - you will pay less buying that Viper. The only real advantage of buying completely stock and doing the mods yourself is that you know exactly what and who was done to your Viper.

 

[aslowdodge]

[
I'd say about $7,400 if you went with the Roe clower for 600RWHP (forced)

$7400 will not get you 500 rwhp, try closer to 530rwhp

To get to 600 you need headers, roller rockers, 70mm throttle bodies. and either methanol or 93plus octane

 

[1TONY1]

THEN go with a Roe blower with about 16 Psi

Maybe you could enlighten us Roe dummies. Sean might be interested too

 

[STUGOTS]

THEN go with a Roe blower with about 16 Psi

Maybe you could enlighten us Roe dummies. Sean might be interested too

or just whatever the highest PSI I could run with that setup lol 12 - 14 maybe ?

 

[STUGOTS]

[
I'd say about $7,400 if you went with the Roe clower for 600RWHP (forced)

$7400 will not get you 500 rwhp, try closer to 530rwhp

To get to 600 you need headers, roller rockers, 70mm throttle bodies. and either methanol or 93plus octane

cant get 600 with just a 10 - 12 Psi blower alone??

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

I feel your pain Newb. But that's supply and demand. What bugs me is the used market. They seem to only knock off a couple hundred for used. Might as well buy new. But that's supply and demand too.

The price to play can be very aggravating. Be patient, sometimes you can come across some nice deals, rarely but sometimes.

 

[GodShall]

Maybe I could barter and work on some of the distributors websites as some could use a professional touch

or not...LOL

 

[Kurt 97 GTS]

Be patient and check the classifieds for deals. We (Viper owners) tend to change things on our cars and you could benefit from this.

 

[aslowdodge]

nope-you'll get boost creep and extra torque, but not 600rwhp

 

[Matthew Klinger]

You sound like a young gun like myself... busted the bank just to get the car... now left with nothing but a payment... I feel your pain too!! Telford isn't far from Allentown, might have to get together to cruz... how often do you come my way?

 

[Vipermann1]

Sorry guys .. I have to support the vendors on the site in this case.

The real reason for the high cost is the research and Development costs. The vendors need to borrow a Viper or offer free parts to test their headers, exhaust, etc.

Then, since Vipers are not the most common vehicle, the can't spread their costs over say 5000 cars, since no vendor will ever sell that many.

For example, say you come up with a new header design on a civic. You can esaily test it on 5-10 cars, then hope to easily sell about 3000 to maybe even 10,000 headers.

For a Viper, you may only be able to test on 1-Gen(1&2) then 1 test on a GEN3 Viper. So then the vendor can only hope to sell about 50 to 200 headers maxium. The cost per header is more since the R&D cost can't be spread out.

Thus ..Viper after market parts cost much more.

... Just my opinion ......

(Now let's hear what the vendors have to say)

 

[GodShall]

Hi Klinger,

I do OK in the money department and Im not complaining about that. Its more of an investment issue. The money spent on these mods cannot possibly be seen again after selling the car as they are so high. Im not so sure they dont hurt the value to be honest.

Viperman, I assumed it was due to the market or lack there of but damn, it aint that hard to make a header. R&D makes sense if its a drug but a header? cmon... I find that very hard to believe because even the generic ones like Edelbrock are $1800. I for one, think its gauging and would like to see what vendors are paying for the headers.

I guess if people will pay it, theres no reason to lower it...

 

[GodShall]

Just some quick research...

A sponsored vendor:
Edelbrock Headers
Price $1,795.00

Non-vendor(summitracing)
Edelbrock Headers
$1,328.69

$450 for the exact same header. THat my friends is some serious gauging. You know damn well Summit is paying half of that for them and they are the cheap company.

 

[mntngts99]

Quote:

-----------------------------------------------------------
To get to 600 you need headers, roller rockers, 70mm throttle bodies. and either methanol or 93plus octane
---------------------------------------------------------
nope-you'll get boost creep and extra torque, but not 600rwhp
-----------------------------------------------------------

Not true
8 lb Roe stock motor,stock throttle bodies. I have high flow cats,filters, tubes,cat back and 3:55 gears.
Dyno sheet with 92 octane.

 

[Jeff Torrey]

Many cars are put back to stock when re-sold. Then the used Mods are sold off on e-bay. Buying an unmoded car is not allways what it seems to be.

Best way to get your money back on mods is to save the stock parts and revert to stock.

 

[Cal Cobra]

I've wondered that too...I mean headers are just metal tubes, nothing more. It's got to be more Viper tax then anything. ****** headers makes a set of Super Competition headers for stuffing a real Boss 302 engine into a 67-68 Mustang or Cougar. Sounds like an odd thing, but I did this (was it a fun car!!), but honestly I['m positive they've made more Viper headers then this funky header application.

You can get the ceremic coated set for ~ $700. Honestly I cannot believe there are more people sticking a Boss 302 into their 67-68 Mustang/Cougar then there are folks with Vipers? Hell they've made more Vipers then Boss 302 engines, so it cannot be possible.

 

[STUGOTS]

Quote:

-----------------------------------------------------------
To get to 600 you need headers, roller rockers, 70mm throttle bodies. and either methanol or 93plus octane
---------------------------------------------------------
nope-you'll get boost creep and extra torque, but not 600rwhp
-----------------------------------------------------------

Not true
8 lb Roe stock motor,stock throttle bodies. I have high flow cats,filters, tubes,cat back and 3:55 gears.
Dyno sheet with 92 octane.

wow great #'s thanks for sharing the dyno sheet.

 

[01sapphireGTS]

vipernewbie: The only thing I disagree with you about is the fact that you think Summit Racing is paying approx half of the amount they are charging their customers. That is just not at all accurate on an item like Edelbrock headers. They may only be making $50-200 on a set. They deal in high volume, not high mark up.

People also think that if you go to Best Buy or a CompUSA and purchase a $800 computer that they are making $200-300. They may actually be loosing $50 on the sale of that PC. They have lost leaders, wehre they actually loose money if you buy one, they have break even models and they have very moderate profit models. All I'm saying is that everything is not as it seems.

Are prices too high in general from "our vendors" , ya probably so. I purchased a Battery Tender about a month ago for almost half of what I found one on the VCA site for... Fortunately for me I have not had to purchase many items for my car yet.

 

[Matthew Klinger]

Hi Klinger,

I do OK in the money department and Im not complaining about that. Its more of an investment issue. The money spent on these mods cannot possibly be seen again after selling the car as they are so high. Im not so sure they dont hurt the value to be honest.

Who's sell'n I don't plan on selling until I HAVE TOO
Was told.. "keep the miles low, these cars tend to loose value very quickly as the miles get high" screw that man I bought it to drive!

PS I did pretty good in the $$ deparment too... I just went broke getting her home and now I have a car payment which I never had before

 

[VIPR GTS]

I guess I need to ask Sean where my 16lb pulley is, thanks for the update STUGOTS. 1TONY1 has been keeping this one a secret I guess.

 

[Viperfreak2]

vipernewbie: The only thing I disagree with you about is the fact that you think Summit Racing is paying approx half of the amount they are charging their customers. That is just not at all accurate on an item like Edelbrock headers. They may only be making $50-200 on a set. They deal in high volume, not high mark up.

Vipers aren't high volume in anything. I worked for an independant dealership and even when buying parts from a middle man (i.e. import broker)instead of from the direct supplier (i.e. Bosch, Hirschmann, Boge) the markup from cost to MSRP was still over 100%. PURE PROFIT. If Summit doesn't make 100%, someone does...

 

[aslowdodge]

Quote:

-----------------------------------------------------------
To get to 600 you need headers, roller rockers, 70mm throttle bodies. and either methanol or 93plus octane
---------------------------------------------------------
nope-you'll get boost creep and extra torque, but not 600rwhp
-----------------------------------------------------------

Not true
8 lb Roe stock motor,stock throttle bodies. I have high flow cats,filters, tubes,cat back and 3:55 gears.
Dyno sheet with 92 octane.

Those are great numbers. I was going on what I learned from Sean Roe. He got 600 with the mods I listed with 93 octane and a 5 lb pulley. When he went to 8 he didn't pick up much hp but torque went up and power fell off a bit earlier because of boost creep. But power under the curve until then went up.

Does the altitude in Boise have anything to do with more power?

My friend with all the mods I listed minus the throttle bodies and with a 5 lb pully dynoed 552rwhp here in cal on a 96 gts

It might be that the octane difference plus all the crap we have in Cal gas makes us pull out a lot more timing reducing our power.