New to the board, New Viper Owner, Just drove it 2000 miles home!! HELP??

[red900]

Ok guys, I just stepped out of the car after 30hrs behind the seat. Non-stop from California to St Louis in 30hrs......

I just bought my new toy and I was wondering if I could get some help from you guys? It is a 1995 with 19,000 miles. It has been sitting for a few years and shows of it. IT is filthy and needs some major TLC. Anyways, I have 2 questions to get started.
1. When I picked the car up It ran perfect and I drove it about 300 miles to my first rest stop where it sat overnight. The next day I took off for the rest of the trip home and at some point, during one of my fuel stops I noticed the temperature was getting up around 225 so I hurried up and got to the station and shut it down. I was worried it mught have been the blown head gasket issue but I checked the oil and the coolant both look fine. I am not real sure but I dont think the Electric fan was turning on. The manual does not show a fuse for the fan so I just hit the road for the rest of the trip keeping a close eye on the temp and being sure not to let it idle too long. While driving the Temp guage sits perfectly within the three marks at the top of the gauge 180-190-200 area.... What would you guys suggest be my plan of attack?
2. About the same time frame I noticed the car started getting hard to start. When I say that I mean it would crank an extended period of time before it would start. This also did not show up until about the time that the overheating started happening. It seems to not actually start until the second cranking. So basically I crank it for about 5-10 seconds, then I crank it again and it will start but not very happy like. If I give it a little gas it may start a little bit easier. I thought this may be related to a hot engine considering the car never cooled down for 30hrs... But last night, I went out and started it after it had sat a day and it took about 15seconds to fire and it barely wanted to start. Any ideas here would be great also.

These are the known issues that may effect the above problems.
1. The car spent some time in Honalulu during its life. The salt in the air was rather tough on the bare metal surfaces. Some of the bolt heads and screws have surface rust, also the gas filler neck is rusted on the inside when I take out the cap. This could very well have caused some blockage, maybe a fuel filter somewhere may be plugged, not sure....
2. The 2nd owner was a weak do-it your-selfer. What I mean by weak is he did added Neon lights and a radio and did a crappy job on both. The neon lights are scabbed into the wiring with the blue snapon connectors and tape all around. He used speaker wire for the power and it is totally pathetic. The radio buzzes from the alternator and he neglected to put about half the screws back in the dash when he put it back together. I did look through most of the wiring and it looks ok, but I need to go in and remove all that crap.

Any suggestions would be great.

Also, where can I get a service manual reasonably cheap? On CD would be fine.

Thanks
Dustin

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Earlier cars had a mediocre electric radiator fan and the electronics only turn it on at ~210F (others will correct me.) Therefore it overshoots before it comes back down. Also, the gauge uses a different temperature sensor than the ECU does, so no matter what number is given, it doesn't correspond exactly to the gauge reading.

You can test the fan idea by turning on the AC when the gauge shows its hot - sounds backwards, I know. The AC forces the fan to run at high speed (it's a two-speed fan) and it should cool it off. If that does not help, then search for "burping" the cooling system to purge the air that gets trapped (usually in the heater core hoses) and also look for a spring center radiator cap, such as comes on newer Vipers. The earlier caps were drop-center types, which sometimes fail by not sucking the antifreeze back into the system after cool-down.

The starting issue sounds like the fuel pump check valve has failed. Try this - turn the key to run (not crank) and listen for the fuel pump to turn on, then turn off. It will only run for ~2 seconds if the engine is not running. Do this key-to-run thing 3-4 times. It will prime the fuel fuel line. What might be happening if the check valve fails is that the fuel line drains and all the gasoline goes back into the tank. The multiple key-run events will fill up the fuel line so you can start on the "first crank" attempt.

This is not a manual, but here you can download the parts book. It will help somewhat. Manuals can usually be found pretty easily on eBay. http://www.mopar.com/viper.html

I have 80K+ miles on my '94 and have seen some of these already. You can get a newer model Viper fan (although the studs on the old radiator don't line up with the newer fan shroud.) You can replace the fuel pump module (except it means cutting through the trunk wall to get to the tank.)

Welcome a-"board."

 

[DanAuito]

Hey thanks for the link to the online parts manuals Tom. Dis is better den sliced bread bro!

P.S. If it's not a secret, how much was this car?

 

[red900]

Tom, you are a genius in my book. Both your ideas were spot on. Now what do I do about it?

The fan works when the AC is turned on and the car does not overheat, but why wont the fan work under normal conditions?

THe car does start much better afer I prime the pump although it only allows me to prime it twice, after that it does not run the fuel pump. IT starts much faster when I prime it twice. So now what on that one also?

 

[Saint_Spinner]

Re: New to the board, New Viper Owner, Just drove it 2000 miles home!! HEL

First of all, congrats on the new ride. I'm a new owner myself.

One of the first things I would do is change batteries...Viper batteries have been known to be the source of numerous "problems" that don't seem related to a dying battery...plus for somereason, these cars **** up a lot of juice just sitting around.

 

[prodiver]

Re: New to the board, New Viper Owner, Just drove it 2000 miles home!! HEL

I have a 95 that I bought in Denver and drove back to Calif. and had the same overheating problem. Replaced the old fan with the late model one and fan control kit with a switch under the dash so I can turn the fan on whenever I want. Helps in heavy traffic and on the track. Also change the fuel filter. Don't get the service manual on CD. It is a pita to use. Get a printed manual from Helm or e-bay. Welcome to the Viper world.

 

[99 R/T 10]

Re: New to the board, New Viper Owner, Just drove it 2000 miles home!! HEL

It's possible your "low" speed is not working on the fan. I had that issue with my 96 RT. Switch to a new module and you can always get an upgraded aluminum radiator and 180 degree thermo to ease your mind. There is a great Viper guy in the St. Louis area. Joe Donovan at PBJ, 314-781-3135.

 

[newelly]

congrats on the new car..I just picked up my 95 a few weeks ago also..its a whole new learning experiance..but lots of good advice from the people here...enjoy

 

[Blade Runner]

Welcome to the club. Where are you in St. Louis. We have a good club here and one of the best Viper Turners in the world right here in our back yard. Performance by Joe is great at fixing and upgrading Vipers. PM me if you want information on the Gateway Chapter. Maybe we can hook up and take them out for a spin.

 

[JUCD VPR]

Welcome to the family. Just like Blade Runner said we had an awesome Viper tuner in St.louis PBJ performance by Joe. He does all my work, hes very professional and does an awesome job. I'd suggest a good tune up, including fuel filter also. I doubt one has evetr been done on the car. If that dosent solve the problem, take it to Joe and i guarantee he can figure it out.
Aslo the Gateway VCA group is awesome. We have a bunch of great members here in St.louis!

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

red900, you'll become a genius after reading all the advice here, too.

I looked it up. The fan should turn on at 207F at low speed, then turn off when it drops to 201F. If the coolant temp goes above 216F, the fan should run at high speed, and drop back to low speed below 216F. The ECU forces high speed when the AC is on. If you listen while it warms up you should see/hear when the fan turns on, and then notice the speed change when the AC is turned on.

The temperatures are not a bad thing when you realize you want the oil to get at least that hot to boil off condensed water. I don't advise a lower thermostat (which won't change your situation anyway.) To decrease high temperature exursions, you have to change the fan. I had to replace the radiator for a bad solder, and since the "old" style radiator isn't available anymore, I got a new style radiator. I then had to replace the fan shroud assembly because the new stud arrangement didn't line up with the old fan. The newer style fan works much better. But the most practical thing is to check it works like it should and leave it as it is.

The fuel check valve issue is simply expensive. At the one extreme, you'll take it to a repair facility to have the fuel pump module replaced. That's unfortunate because the pump is fine, but the check valve isn't working. Having seen a fuel pump module, (pump, gas gauge sending unit, filter/screen, check valve, etc.) you don't need the whole $400 unit, but I don't think the check valve alone is serviced. If you're into doing things yourself, cut the trunk wall, remove the module, and see if the valve can be repaired. There's no better answer for this one.

Good luck, and as you can see, there's lots of help to be had.

 

[Brian 95 RT]

Tom, you are a genius in my book. Both your ideas were spot on. Now what do I do about it?

The fan works when the AC is turned on and the car does not overheat, but why wont the fan work under normal conditions?

THe car does start much better afer I prime the pump although it only allows me to prime it twice, after that it does not run the fuel pump. IT starts much faster when I prime it twice. So now what on that one also?

Your fans seems to be normal to me. It is made to run all the time when the AC is on, and should turn on around 215-220 degrees. There is no room in the engine compartment for the heat to go because of the big V-10, so when you stop, that is why your car heats up quickly.

There is a lot of routine maintenance with your Viper as opposed to any other car. Do some searches here and read a lot of the old posts. Some things that should probably be done to your car if they haven't already include changing all fluids including oil, differential, brake, clutch, transmission, and coolant. Also new spark plugs and wires, O2 sensors, and throttle body sync.

 

[418viper]

Even though this does not appear to be your problem, let me mention checking and changing your chassis ground. Older cars may have corroded grounds. Had a 78 trans am once with major electrical problems come to find out the ground was corroded and the car selected another ground itself by grounding the engine through the transmission shifter cable. Issue only came to light when the transmission cable finally burned up!

 

[snampro]

I just put a custom aluminum radiator (Alans Performance), 180 deg thermostat and new fan on my '94 and its completely eliminated the heat issue, the car works great even sitting in Atlanta traffic on an 85 degree day