Newbie Questions; maybe going from Porsche to viper

[Todd951968]

Hi, I currenly have 3 older Porsches; 911, 968, and a 944Turbo. I've been thinking about selling 2 of them, throwing in some cash and getting a newer car. The C5 Z06 or the regular C6 has been near the top of my list. Then, out of curiosity, I checked out prices of 1997-2001 GTS Vipers and was surprised that they were in the $ 30k range. So I looked a little more and ...well, now Vipers are at the top of my list. Only, in a fourm search some have said they do require high maintenance and cost a lot to run. Well, that is subjective and I really can't find concrete answers using the search.

My porsches have each cost me and average of about $ 1,500/per year over the last 10 years. This includes routine maintenance, repairs, and some modifications. It does notinclude gas or insurance. I was insuring them for about $ 600/year/each but recently switched to Hagerty for $ 300/year/each.

How does a Viper compare with yearly costs, specifically, the following:

1. Typical average repairs and maintenance
2. Average insurance (I am married and 42 years with clean record)
3. What do some popular basic modifications cost, what are they?
4. What are the 3 top problem areas that require repairs on these cars?

Lastly, does anyone know of a good techician in the Pittsburgh PA area? Or do you take these cars to the dealer?

Sorry so longwinded. I can't wait to hear helpful responses.

 

[RTTTTed]

Repairs? Hopefully no repairs needed.

I usually do several thousand worth of mods each year. I bought a modified supercharged Viper and added bigger brakes, extreme lightweight wheels, stereo speakers, Blue tooth tech, nav, built in radar detector, HID lights, Titanium rear axles, TPMS, etc. Doubt if you can find another like it on the planet. It already had the 720+rwhp before I ported the heads.

However, I do have a 2000 ACR for sale. It has Koni dbl adj race shocks ($12000), Paxton sueprcharger, stereo speakers, Corsa SS exhaust and Hi-flow Cats, 800hp rear axles, factory lightweight BBS forged wheels have been chromed. I added lightweight front brake rotors and new Ceramic EBC pads all around. Factory 5 pt seat belt harness as well as the normal 3 point street harnesses. Snow water/mth, Walbro pump, C02 intercooler 'chiller' system and Nitrous Oxide system. From a really fast car to usually the FASTEST car in your area (unless there's a TT Viper close by. From a low 11 sec 24mpg car to a 9 second screaming race car this has it. You could buy one and then spend $40,000 adding these quality modifications, or just buy this one for $49,000 complete.


ACR, Paxton supercharged NOS = 802rwhp - ViperClub Classifieds

I think it's usually the vette's that have repair issues. Main Viper repairs are the battery (from not using a battery tender when parking).

Ted

 

[vipergtspa]

Not sure what area you are from but I will be at a car show tomorrow with my 2000 gts, the show is at the pittsburgh mills mall from 1 pm till dusk.

I could answer some of your questions and you would get to see a genII viper in person.

Jeff

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

The answers to your questions are pretty much the same for any sports car. Some parts have a Viper tax but it is still just a Dodge and is easiest car to maintenance since the 60s.

The real question you should ask yourself is why you want a Viper.

 

[vipergtspa]

The answers to your questions are pretty much the same for any sports car. Some parts have a Viper tax but it is still just a Dodge and is easiest car to maintenance since the 60s.

The real question you should ask yourself is why you want a Viper.

Because its the best

 

[RTTTTed]

The answers to your questions are pretty much the same for any sports car. Some parts have a Viper tax but it is still just a Dodge and is easiest car to maintenance since the 60s.

The real question you should ask yourself is why you want a Viper.

There's a track in his area that the record wasn't set by a Viper and he wants to set the new record.

 

[plumcrazy]

The answers to your questions are pretty much the same for any sports car. Some parts have a Viper tax but it is still just a Dodge and is easiest car to maintenance since the 60s.

The real question you should ask yourself is why you want a Viper.

and if you have to ask, you probably wont be happy with one

 

[AHudson777]

Hi, I currenly have 3 older Porsches; 911, 968, and a 944Turbo. My porsches have each cost me and average of about $ 1,500/per year over the last 10 years. This includes routine maintenance, repairs, and some modifications. It does notinclude gas or insurance. I was insuring them for about $ 600/year/each but recently switched to Hagerty for $ 300/year/each.

How does a Viper compare with yearly costs, specifically, the following:

1. Typical average repairs and maintenance
2. Average insurance (I am married and 42 years with clean record)
3. What do some popular basic modifications cost, what are they?
4. What are the 3 top problem areas that require repairs on these cars?

Lastly, does anyone know of a good techician in the Pittsburgh PA area? Or do you take these cars to the dealer?

I'll take a shot. Long time multi Porsche owner too. The Viper is a hot rod, a darn fine one at that. It is - lets be honest - not of the same build quality as the Stuttgart cars. Long as you don't expect it to be, you're fine. That said...

The cars are very reliable. Fast, fun, screwed together well enough to stay that way. The 'problem' areas range from

• cooking hot side sills (mod for that)
• screwball plastic power steering mount (mod for that)
• battery drain
• temperature gauge failure (cheap to replace; NOT Porsche priced)
• weak motor mounts (mod for that)
• and a few more found by searching this incredible forum

As you can see, not much and there are mods galore. Updates to potentially weak stuff is out there. Plus, as you'll see on this forum, massive amounts of 'real' mods for power, looks, stopping, you name it. And if even dare venture into the exhaust threads, plan on being up a while.

Plus, unlike your 944 Turbo, you can actually see the motor! You can get to things (mostly) and many, many DIYs on here that I've done, and I don't wrench a lot. The Viper is a very approachable car.

Yeah, it's loud, low, 'in your face', and so much torque it can be absolutely impolite. (Unless I'm mistaken, about the same as your turbo and 968 combined). But it gets the darn job done. Had mine 3 years, not a single regret... except that the prices don't nearly reflect of the value!

A performance bargain. Give one a try.

 

[SkyBob]

The real question you should ask yourself is why you want a Viper.

Because they're pretty?

 

[Todd951968]

Thanks for the initial responses. Jeff, I have a few things going on today but I may try to get out to the Pgh Mills mall to check out your car and ask a few more questions.

What draw me to the Viper is its power, looks , exclusivity . What would make me purchase one is learning that the maintenance/repairs are not too far out of line from that of a Porsche. I'd also to learn about repair parts availability..... it seems like the Viper does not share many components with other Dodge cars...except the interior gages perhaps. The less than Stuttgart build quality and fit and finish dont bother me too much as long as it doesn't call apart. I've had Trans Ams and Camaros so I know what to expect there.

I saw a race up at our local track, BeaveRun , and a Viper was puttin' in on a bunch of Porsches, Vettes, an 80's Aston Martin race car, and others. And, with the Lemans and many other wins, it definitely is an accomplished car. There are not many around here, at all. I like that. In a Vette , I'd see myself coming and going all day long on the highway.

 

[fqberful]

Thanks for the initial responses. Jeff, I have a few things going on today but I may try to get out to the Pgh Mills mall to check out your car and ask a few more questions.

What draw me to the Viper is its power, looks , exclusivity . What would make me purchase one is learning that the maintenance/repairs are not too far out of line from that of a Porsche. I'd also to learn about repair parts availability..... it seems like the Viper does not share many components with other Dodge cars...except the interior gages perhaps. The less than Stuttgart build quality and fit and finish dont bother me too much as long as it doesn't call apart. I've had Trans Ams and Camaros so I know what to expect there.

I saw a race up at our local track, BeaveRun , and a Viper was puttin' in on a bunch of Porsches, Vettes, an 80's Aston Martin race car, and others. And, with the Lemans and many other wins, it definitely is an accomplished car. There are not many around here, at all. I like that. In a Vette , I'd see myself coming and going all day long on the highway.

When it comes to maintenance the Viper is way cheaper than a Porsche. We have both. My Viper is a GenIII .. I have an SRT10 Ram Truck that shares a common engine and trans and it's super reliable. The V10 and T56 6spd are just about bullet proof. The Viper is so simple and totally lacking in nanny-tech and other unnecessary crap that there are very few failure points. Oil filters for example are used across several other Dodge vehicles and are easy to get from multiple sources. Belts no problem. You can get brake pads, spark plugs, etc at the local auto parts store.

Mine gives me zero issues, I just go out, pull the battery tender and drive it. I live in FL so I drive it year round.

 

[Phun70]

Whoever said the Viper doesn't have Stuttgart build quality, has too much faith in the Germans!

 

[RevHeat]

and if you have to ask, you probably wont be happy with one

Plum, can I go drive mine? Its been sitting in the garage for 4 days straight?

 

[Tagoo]

Todd- I came from a 911SC before my two vipers. I've never regretted the decision. A 911 (at least 993 and earlier) was an exceptionally well built car.

I found the 911 to be better in terms of build quality, tire wear (even though a 911 goes through rears quickly) comfort and gas mileage. I used a 911 as a daily driver for 4 years, including driving in snow. Vipers aren't a good daily driver IMHO.

Both cars can bite if you don't apply the throttle correctly (throttle-lift with a porsche; throttle-mash with a viper).

The viper is a better car for ease of maintenance, performance (by any measure), upgradeability, looks, exclusivity.

I really haven't seen much difference in costs. routine maintenace was higher on the porsche, and I go through more tires with the viper. It's about a wash. Insurance might be a little higher on the viper. I'm surprised that it doesn't cost more to insure the viper.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

and if you have to ask, you probably wont be happy with one

Yep.

............

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Because they're pretty?

Groan. You're killing me. You know that don't you? You're killing me.

 

[Viper ACR]

LOL , I am sure the more you research the Viper . The more you will see that they are tops in comparables reliability wise . Many owners have put on thousands of miles a quarter mile at a time and have no major issues . One of the big reasons I bought my first GTS . Due to the fact that you can drive the hell out of them .( What they were meant for )and they won't fall apart . Good luck and let us know what you decide . Absolutely any question you have about the car can and will be answered by all the great members on here .

 

[white out]

Viper is the cheapest performance car that I've ever owned. It has actually proven to be much cheaper to run in comparison to five of my friends C5s & C6s. . . and faster than all but one of them.

Nick

 

[RTTTTed]

Although there are quite a few 1100-2200rwhp Vipers that have been built I've never heard of any other machine that can easily make over 1,000rwhp. I think that says a lot right there. 700n/a is also not u nusual for a Viper engine.

My GTS has a few mods and over 720rwhp with nearly 800rwtq. I have 52,000 miles on the car now and it gets 20mpg (us). I plan to upgrade the blower and run about 800rwhp on a nearly stock shortblock with pump gas. My GTS was blown probably as soon as it was broken in.

Ted

 

[Todd951968]

I went and checked out Jeff's Red/cognac GTS this afternoon at the car show(didn't get to meet Jeff). He car is awesome. The interior looked to be better quality than I thought. Definitely acceptable to me. With 6 cars right now,I definitely need to sell a couple to make space and raise some of the cash. But, it looks like this is a plan...

 

[RTTTTed]

I just sold one of my (24) cars today. I find it difficult to sell cars with the economy as it is, so good luck.

While you're selling get a ride or two in a couple of Vipers and decide how much power you want to handle, if you want the ACR's $12,000 shocks, which exhaust, which generation Viper, upgraded brakes if you plan to track the car, etc.

 

[vipergtspa]

I went and checked out Jeff's Red/cognac GTS this afternoon at the car show(didn't get to meet Jeff). He car is awesome. The interior looked to be better quality than I thought. Definitely acceptable to me. With 6 cars right now,I definitely need to sell a couple to make space and raise some of the cash. But, it looks like this is a plan...

Sorry I did not get a chance to talk with you and also sorry for the dirty car I did not get a chance to clean it, I was not plaining on bring it to the car show but I thought it would be a good chance for you to see one and ask some questions because there are not to many around this area to see in person.

If you would like to meet up some time just let me know.

Jeff

 

[Twister]

Good stuff here...as far as im concerned vipers are bullet proof...and cheap to work on

 

[King RT10]

I just sold my TT Porsche. My SC Viper has never broke in 11 years. (1999)
The big difference is the Porsche shifter is sloppy like a wet noodle and repairs/ high cost.
Then when I drive my SC Viper everything is solid (Motor, Trans, clutch).
Viper is a Hot Rod which draws a lot of attention.. Porsche does everything too well and is civilized.

The cost breaks down to owning a Honda civic if I sold the Viper today, or a family cell phone plan.
(per month)

 

[RTTTTed]

The 'problem' areas range from

• cooking hot side sills (mod for that)
• screwball plastic power steering mount (mod for that)
• battery drain
• temperature gauge failure (cheap to replace; NOT Porsche priced)
• weak motor mounts (mod for that)
• and a few more found by searching this incredible forum

===============================================================

I'll disagree with this list.

... except for the -GOVERNMENT- required 4 chamber Cats should have been changed upon purchase and nearly ever Viper with 10K on it has Hi-flow Cats already.


-The Pwr str bracket is cats aluminium and I broke the one on my Roe Racing supercharged Viper at 40K. My other 2 Vipers are OK. Pwr str pulley (plastic) and pump bracket are recommended to be change with any added belt tension (like the 150hp drain of a supercharger). Not a Viper issue.

-Battery drain is the active alarm. Want to lock and alarm it when you park it? Plug in a Battery tender - like your motorcycle - or don't lock the car when you park it (like all other active alarms).

-Temp guage? Never heard of a failure and all 3 of mine are great.

-My Sapphire GTS has over 720rwhp and has twisted 800hp Unitrax axles - so it got Titanium Unitrax axles to go with the stock Viper motor and tranny mounts.

Ted

 

[AHudson777]

The 'problem' areas range from

• cooking hot side sills (mod for that)
• screwball plastic power steering mount (mod for that)
• battery drain
• temperature gauge failure (cheap to replace; NOT Porsche priced)
• weak motor mounts (mod for that)
• and a few more found by searching this incredible forum

===============================================================

I'll disagree with this list.

... except for the -GOVERNMENT- required 4 chamber Cats should have been changed upon purchase and nearly ever Viper with 10K on it has Hi-flow Cats already.


-The Pwr str bracket is cats aluminium and I broke the one on my Roe Racing supercharged Viper at 40K. My other 2 Vipers are OK. Pwr str pulley (plastic) and pump bracket are recommended to be change with any added belt tension (like the 150hp drain of a supercharger). Not a Viper issue.

-Battery drain is the active alarm. Want to lock and alarm it when you park it? Plug in a Battery tender - like your motorcycle - or don't lock the car when you park it (like all other active alarms).

-Temp guage? Never heard of a failure and all 3 of mine are great.

-My Sapphire GTS has over 720rwhp and has twisted 800hp Unitrax axles - so it got Titanium Unitrax axles to go with the stock Viper motor and tranny mounts.

Ted

Good. I'll disagree with you. I had every single one of those issues. My search on this forum confirmed I was not alone. Glad you've had a different experience. I was trying to help our newbie friend. Maybe you have something to help the OPs request?

 

[RTTTTed]

Well the pwr str bracket is cast aluminium not plastic. The pwr str problem (with supercharger) is also the plastic pulley. Both available from Roe racing and Jonb sells the Big Brake Dave's replacements.

Other than the Cats the Viper is an excellent piece of workmanship. Chrylser cancelled my warranty when I brought my car into Canada. Although I'm ***'d off about corp policies I still bought the Viper even with No warranty. Can't say that I would buy any other brand of car with a cancelled warranty. Super reliable, even with double the horsepower they were dsigned for.

Sorry you had issues. If your car was modified or track'd that would explain it?

Ted

 

[RTTTTed]

Perhaps the best reference for the Dodge Viper is that although the Tremec was invented for a Viper - it comes in Shebly GT500 mustangs, Z06s and ZR1s. The Michellin Pilot Sports Tires and sport cups were invented for the Viper and now they come on ZR1s, Porsches and other supercars.

I havn't heard of any Porsche, maserati, or vette inventions ever getting installed into a Viper.

Ted

 

[Todd951968]

Yes its not a sellers market and it doesn't really look like things will improve for a while. On the flip side, I should be able to get a Viper cheaper too so hopefully it offset.

 

[Twister]

actually viper prices seem to be riseing..
i remember 18 months ago I saw 2008's in the high 50's and a few 2003 for 36-38K..

i went to Ebay today and only saw around 9 2008's for sale and 7 2003's for sale...

the 2003's were all around 40K with one around 50K and the 2008's were all well into the 60's and close to 70K..

Seems like their are less for sale now than a year or so ago and the prices seem to have went up..

Id get one now before they go up more..

i was all stoked on trying to get a 2008 ssg coupe for high 50's..Right now I dont think that is gonna happen