Nitrogen fill for street tires
- Thread starter viper04
- Start date
Torquemonster06
Enthusiast
From what I understand the only advantage to nitro is you get no pressure change when the tires heat up. I could be wrong though, just ask my wife. LOL
Paul Hawker
Enthusiast
Standard air is mostly Nitrogen.
Would not pay much for nitrogen fill for street use.
Would be good for running the Silver State or other closed highway courses.
Would not pay much for nitrogen fill for street use.
Would be good for running the Silver State or other closed highway courses.
MoparBoyy
Enthusiast
not worth it for street tires.
Allan
Enthusiast
Don't bother unless you're trying to impress your friends at the coffee shop or something.
Timnineside
Enthusiast
Your paying for green caps.
denniskgb
Enthusiast
Another dealer gimmick to take your money. I am sure there is an explanation to that but all things considered unless you carry gray pupone in your car and umbrella NOT worth it
Allan
Enthusiast
If you need to impress your friends, just get the green caps.
you won't be lying as to the nitrogen fill, being that the atmophere is something like 78ish% nitrogen.
Allan
Enthusiast
As tire dealers, we have to buy the 'special nitrogen compressor whatever' to offer nitrogen fill to the customers. Most shops charge around 7 or 8 bucks a tire for the fill.
The investment in equipment is around 7 grand last time I looked. So the idea is for us to be able to recover the investment while offering the customer a better product. -that's why the rediculous fee to fill the tires.
I didn't buy into it, as I am operating in an economically repressed area, and it's really something just to sell the tires.
I am actually starting to sell more 'used tires' than new ones because of the 'economic situation'. -which is fine because there's way more profit in used tires than new tires.
I don't think any customers will be opting for the '8 dollar per tire nitrogen fill' in the used tires that we're selling.
So that's one less piece of equipment we have to collect dust.
shine
Viper Owner
Biggest thing for us is that the tires don't change pressure from hot days to cold. Cold days as winter nears can trigger the "low tire pressure" alarm when they have normal air in them. On nitrogen, they stay at whatever PSI you set them at, no matter if it's 20 degrees out or 70.
TrackAire
Enthusiast
Unfortunately that is against the laws of physics. All gases expand and contract when heated/cooled, period.
As Allan so correctly pointed out, you already have 78% nitrogen in your tires, 22% more is not going to make a difference. Also when a tire shop fills your tire with nitrogen, they would need to purge the tire 4 or 5 times to get out any other oxygen, etc left in the tire from atmospheric pressure before the bead was seated. So unless they have a specialized purging system (and it takes time to do this), I would guess the best you can shoot for is about 88% nitrogen.
My best advice is to save the money on the nitrogen fill up and use that money to buy a very high quality Longacre type tire gauge. The are easy to read and very accurate. Having the correct tire pressure side to side (especially the rear tires) will make a lot of difference as to how the car handles.
Cheers,
George
Supposedly the nitrogen molecules are also bigger and less likely to leak through small holes, but I think that might be a bit of a strech as well. Kind of like fluid in a pan with a hole. You might notice a thinner liquid easier, but a thick liquid will eventually leak as well (ask the oil pan and the pin hole leaks I found on my 5.7 hemi...).
Paul Hawker
Enthusiast
Since the Nitrogen in the air is already 78%, and the smaller other molecules are the ones that bleed our, then even more of the air in the tire will become Nitrogen rich.
As you add air to replace the bleeding little molecules the internal mix will be more and more larger molecules.
Maybe kind of like the "Angles Share" when making whiskey or wine : >)
As you add air to replace the bleeding little molecules the internal mix will be more and more larger molecules.
Maybe kind of like the "Angles Share" when making whiskey or wine : >)
Mopar Steve
Enthusiast
ATTENTION!
I use Helium! Helium is lighter so my rotaional mass is reduced freeing up horsepower and unsprung weight. Also, because of the "lighter than air" propperties my gas mileage is also greatly improved. I reccomend this highly, just go to your local tire dealer/installer and ask them for it. You will immediately become very popular.
I use Helium! Helium is lighter so my rotaional mass is reduced freeing up horsepower and unsprung weight. Also, because of the "lighter than air" propperties my gas mileage is also greatly improved. I reccomend this highly, just go to your local tire dealer/installer and ask them for it. You will immediately become very popular.
I fill up with nitrous oxide, way faster than helium and if life gets you down, all you have to do is crack valves open.
Nitrogen vendors invalidated Charles's Law long time ago.
Maybe I'm taking this too seriously. The issue with "normal" air is the moisture that is in it. By using the pure nitrogen you are getting a gas that is moisture free. Nitrogen by it self will still expand and contract, just way far less than a gas that has moisture in it. If you have a high end air dryer on your compressed air system I doubt that you could tell much if any difference between that air and the pure nitogen. Most shops don't have an air dryer on their system that will remove most of the moisture.
The goal here is to get the tire filled without the moisture becuase it expands way more than any of the gases that make up the air we breath.
Just my 2 cents, please be gentle!
The goal here is to get the tire filled without the moisture becuase it expands way more than any of the gases that make up the air we breath.
Just my 2 cents, please be gentle!
Voodoo Rob
Enthusiast
Nitrogen in my tires, fuel additives in the tank, miracle oil enhancers in the engine, magic high horsepower spark plugs, coolant "ice".... makes the old west "Snake Oil" salesmen look tame. Buy good products from reputable manufacturers that have done the homework to begin with. Most of the "second ticket" sales are to pick your pocket clean.
SSGNRDZ_28
Enthusiast
Bingo!
Indycar teams use nitrogen in the tires but use a vacuum pump system to purge the tires of air and moisture (several times in a row) before filling with dry nitrogen. Indycar tires also see a much wider temp range than a street car so this is more important for consistency.
Not sure how the street car garages are filling tires with nitrogen but unless purging and filling correctly I'd say the effects are nil. If they do things properly there may be a marginal improvement in pressure consistency over the temperature range.
Indycar teams use nitrogen in the tires but use a vacuum pump system to purge the tires of air and moisture (several times in a row) before filling with dry nitrogen. Indycar tires also see a much wider temp range than a street car so this is more important for consistency.
Not sure how the street car garages are filling tires with nitrogen but unless purging and filling correctly I'd say the effects are nil. If they do things properly there may be a marginal improvement in pressure consistency over the temperature range.
VIPER GTSR 91
Enthusiast
Not needed for the street as tires do not get that hot compared to the track. Save your money and time on doing that.
Some dealerships are filling new cars with it when you buy a car and will maintain it for free. Some cars are coming from the factory with it. I was at the dealer about a year ago for some service and walked back to check on my car and noticed they were filling my tires from a welding bottle. I asked what that was and it was nitrogen. I went to my local welding supply and rented a bottle, bought a hose and connections and now fill my all my cars and shop trucks with it. They rent the bottle for a year at a time. I have had it over a year and have yet to refill it. It is pretty cheap to do it that way and its pure nitrogen. It's suppose to make your tires last longer, they stay aired up longer, and there is less expansion to heat. I think that could be a factor when its 100 degrees outside and you are hauling a load or running hard at the track.
TrackAire
Enthusiast
Last nights episode of "Fifth Gear" (a UK car show) actually tested nitrogen fills and if it's worth it. Their scientific test was to use a climatic chamber (giant oven with very accurate temp readings) and put in one tire with atmospheric air and one that had been filled with nitrogen. They used two identical tires and put them in the chamber for 1 hour at 80 degrees Celsius.
Amazingly, the nitrogen tire actually had a larger psi swing than the air filled tire which begs the question, did the nitrogen machine really put out 100% nitrogen? All gasses expand and contract at the exact same amount, regardless of what marketing will tell you. 100% nitrogen will expand with heat the same as 100% oxygen, 100% argon, etc.
They also tested identical cars on the race track, one with nitrogen filled tires and one with air...both track times after 10 laps were identical.
For those worried about water in your air/nitrogen, your tire installer may actually use a little soapy water to mount your tires...that amount water that drips into the tire is thousands time more than what is in atmospheric air....and that liquid water is very hard to purge out with professional purging machines that certain race accessory suppliers offer.
Many race teams use nitrogen (bottled) for a couple of reasons. First, it is a pure gas, you don't have to worry about any other contaminants that a compressor may put out (water, rust, oil, etc). Notice on the pit wall, teams don't use an air compressor to run the tire changing tools. It is much more convenient to use the nitrogen bottle to run the impact gun and to make tire pressure adjustments during the race.
Fifth Gear's take was to pass on the nitrogen and make sure you check your pressures regularly.
The good news is nitrogen fills will not hurt anything and the green cap means you're part of a special kids club.
The bad news is many people assume since they have "nitrogen" in their tires, they don't have to check tire pressures as regularly and this is the real danger. Many older cars and SUV's do not have TPSM to alert you if a tire is low. A slow leak from a nail can be deadly, especially in high center of gravity vehicles like SUV's. Check your pressures on a regular basis with a quality gauge.
Cheers,
Geoge
