KC
Viper Owner
After 4 runs at the track using champion copper plugs and a little nitrous.
You must be registered for see images
Nitrous + Champion plugs = disaster
- Thread starter KC
- Start date
1TONY1
Enthusiast
Those aren't spark plugs......they are FUSES 
Really...you have a problem and it's not the spark plugs. Be glad the fuses went first
Really...you have a problem and it's not the spark plugs. Be glad the fuses went first
kcobean
Enthusiast
Hooooly Poo!!! What shape is your engine in right now? It looks like you dumped metal down three cylinders.
99 R/T 10
Enthusiast
Were you using the RC12YC?
IEATVETS
Enthusiast
So what happened with the rest of the plugs? Are they bouncing around on top of the pistons? I agree with Tony, you have more than just problems with the plugs. A 300 shot, whether computer controlled or not, is a big shot of nitrous. Not to many people run that big of a shot, except for Lauri, especially on a creampuff Viper.
JUCD VPR
Enthusiast
I had something similar happen to my Mustang when i ran nitrous. BUt it was because the timing was not ******** enough and i had a backfire melted 4 of my plugs, looked very similar to that!
melted 4 of my plugs, looked very similar to that!KC
Viper Owner
I was running Champion RC12LYC plugs. I don't seem to have done any damage to my engine thank goodness. The pieces must have blown out my exhaust right? Car is still running strong but Im going to figure out what caused it before I run any nitrous again.
KC
Viper Owner
creampuff viper???
I dyno at 540 hp without the nitrous its not a creampuff is it?? lol
I dyno at 540 hp without the nitrous its not a creampuff is it?? lol
1TONY1
Enthusiast
Is that a wet or dry shot ? You better back it down to 150 or so and check it on the dyno.
JUCD VPR
Enthusiast
What year if your car? The 2000+ cars are referred to as creampuffs because they DO NOT have forged pistons.
540 HP BEFORE nitrous, what the heck comes in a venom package?
99 R/T 10
Enthusiast
It looks like KC has a 97. You should be using AT LEAST a one step colder plug and with that amount of NOS, 2 steps colder. I suggest you try the RC10ECC plug. Great drivablilty and will work well with your system. 
V10SpeedLuvr
Enthusiast
And that is why I wont ever put NOS on a car. When I'm ready to add more power, I'll add a supercharger
JUCD VPR
Enthusiast
Whatever, i have been running nitrous on my Mustang for over 8 years and on my Viper for over 1 year and i have only had one backfire where i melted a few plugs on the Mustang because of my sheer stupidity of not retarding the timing. Everything else has been smooth sailing. NItrous is great as long as your educated on how to use it, its very simple.
Snakester
Enthusiast
I've been running the stock champions with N2O for several years without any problems, but I'm not running nearly that big of a shot, and I'm running rich.
Adding a supercharger or turbcharger is not without the issues that N2O systems face. The key is having a proper setup, not running too big of a shot (or too much boost), and doing dyno tuning to make sure that the A/F is safe.
Adding a supercharger or turbcharger is not without the issues that N2O systems face. The key is having a proper setup, not running too big of a shot (or too much boost), and doing dyno tuning to make sure that the A/F is safe.
2001 GTS
Enthusiast
When I was running a 150 shot, it was fouling out the champion plugs in cylinder 1 and 2, so I went to a colder plug, and problem solved.
KC
Viper Owner
thanks for the heads up on a colder plug
I run my car rich. I had Eddie in Phoenix AZ remap my computer becouse I wanted it to run richer then it was. I had a liitle pinging problem in hot weather. I live in Tucson AZ. That was solved, I have had the nitrous in the car for at least two years and I never toasted a plug like that let alone three. I'm going to check the timing. I was thinking of running a boush fr7dcx plug
I run my car rich. I had Eddie in Phoenix AZ remap my computer becouse I wanted it to run richer then it was. I had a liitle pinging problem in hot weather. I live in Tucson AZ. That was solved, I have had the nitrous in the car for at least two years and I never toasted a plug like that let alone three. I'm going to check the timing. I was thinking of running a boush fr7dcx plug
dblankenbaker
Viper Owner
Personally, I would check those cylinders with a boroscope. If there is something in there, once you identify it, you can rig a vacuum up to **** it out. Your car may still be running strong, but little bits will eat away at your bore slowly.
Fast Freddy
Enthusiast
man you got some serious problems there. it seems from the posts here that you are running plugs that are of a stock heat range. as you can see thats not good. with a 300 shot you need plugs that are at least 2 heat ranges colder. also you need to run 104 octane unleaded race gas when sprayin that much NOS. how many degrees is your timing ******** when you spray? i would retard my timing at least 6 degrees with that much spray. i assume with a 300 shot of nitrous you have upgraded your fuel system (thats a must). i run nitrous on my camaro, my drag boat and my drag bike. i live in tucson, PM if you need any help
KC
Viper Owner
yes I have had it on a dyno once when the nitrous was set up and once when I had the computer work done.
I will take the advise on looking in the cylinders before I drive it again and check my timing again.
I was running 92 octane.
I was going to put Boush fr7dcx plugs in
Thanks for all the feedback
I will take the advise on looking in the cylinders before I drive it again and check my timing again.
I was running 92 octane.
I was going to put Boush fr7dcx plugs in
Thanks for all the feedback
KC
Viper Owner
I'm going to do a compression and leak down check in the next day or two in my garage. I will post the results
IEATVETS
Enthusiast
One thing I am wondering is in your sig you have "300 shot computer controlled." What exactly is this computer controller doing for you?
Tom Welch
Enthusiast
First of all, your fuel system cannot support 300 hp worth of nitrous injection! To make matters worse, you have larger throttle bodies which add even more air to an already lean condition. It's stuff like this that give nitrous a bad name.
Guys like v10speedster will always be ignorant and make silly comments because they read of failures like the one here that could have easily been avoided by proper installation and usage of the product.(NOTE: this is not my customer or system)
With proper fuel supply you should have no problem with the stock plugs. Remember that a colder plug is usually shorter, which means less mass in the chamber, which means lower compression and less N/A Power. My Viper engine uses stock champion plugs on 300+ hp worth of nitrous with no ill effects.
There are quality alternative spark plugs available like the NGK FR5-1 as an example, but they are not a cure for lack of a sufficient fuel system and dyno tuning a baseline system.
Check the forums, there are picture of grenaded motors that were TT and SC but due to lack of fuel and or proper timing they too suffered the fate of detonation.
Jedi
Guys like v10speedster will always be ignorant and make silly comments because they read of failures like the one here that could have easily been avoided by proper installation and usage of the product.(NOTE: this is not my customer or system)
With proper fuel supply you should have no problem with the stock plugs. Remember that a colder plug is usually shorter, which means less mass in the chamber, which means lower compression and less N/A Power. My Viper engine uses stock champion plugs on 300+ hp worth of nitrous with no ill effects.
There are quality alternative spark plugs available like the NGK FR5-1 as an example, but they are not a cure for lack of a sufficient fuel system and dyno tuning a baseline system.
Check the forums, there are picture of grenaded motors that were TT and SC but due to lack of fuel and or proper timing they too suffered the fate of detonation.
Jedi
Let me piggy-back on Tom's comments. You don't have a plug problem. The oem plugs are not perfect, but, they are not what caused your problem. The timing is probably not the issue either, the oem timing curve is close to 6 degrees under optimum adavnce, therefore, already ********.
Your issue is the a/f. You will probably be shocked at where you are running. The car may have piston damage. The borescope will tell you. The car can have good compression or leak-down and still have damage to the pistons. You may get away with NA runs, but, be careful about trying the nitrous. If the borescope shows no damage back off the jets to 100hp and increase the fuel jet a couple of sizes, that should be your base point. Establish the a/f at that point and work your way up and see where and why the a/f went south. Like Tom said, if you don't have at least a fuel pump booster, you have a problem. The stock pump is good for about 225-250 hp on nitrous.
If the car has a SC, turbo or nitrous a borescope is not a bad idea.
Your issue is the a/f. You will probably be shocked at where you are running. The car may have piston damage. The borescope will tell you. The car can have good compression or leak-down and still have damage to the pistons. You may get away with NA runs, but, be careful about trying the nitrous. If the borescope shows no damage back off the jets to 100hp and increase the fuel jet a couple of sizes, that should be your base point. Establish the a/f at that point and work your way up and see where and why the a/f went south. Like Tom said, if you don't have at least a fuel pump booster, you have a problem. The stock pump is good for about 225-250 hp on nitrous.
If the car has a SC, turbo or nitrous a borescope is not a bad idea.
99 R/T 10
Enthusiast
TOM! Long time no see! Where ya been? good to see you back in the mix
KC
Viper Owner
first off my fuel pump will keep up with a 300 shot I had it tested. any shot over 300 would require a better fuel pump. I had west cooast viper insatll it and test it. and I had my computer remapped to adjust for the additional air from my throttle bodies and 3" intake air hoses. My car does not run lien. I have had it dyned I just had somthing go wrong as you can see. I have used the 300 shot for two years and nevr damaged a plug.
As for my computer controlled system I spray very a small amount of nitrous in the begining and it ramps up to 300 or what ever amount I want it to spray over a certain amount of time in each gear.
As for my computer controlled system I spray very a small amount of nitrous in the begining and it ramps up to 300 or what ever amount I want it to spray over a certain amount of time in each gear.
KC
Viper Owner
Thanks Tom and jedi for the info I will take your advise on looking into my a/f mix and see what happened to cause this major problem. Are you guys sure my stock pump will not keep up with a 300 shot I was assured it would by west coast viper.
Tom Welch
Enthusiast
A stock pump cannot keep up with more than about 580 total hp. Keep in mind that fuel starvation has always been the silent killer of any nitrous or forced air engine. Most fuel pumps are mounted in the rear of the car and the fuel must travel forward against the G forces caused by acceleration. The factory pump and lines simply cannot feed what you ask. Additionally, you are taking precious fuel directly from the fuel rail and giving it to a nitrous solenoid....Think about it, where is the engine making up for that fuel at Wide Open Throttle?
If you are insistant on running gasoline as the fuel source, I suggest changing the pump, feedline and injectors. Or consider a front mount fuel cell and pump (like the one that we offer) which will supply the nitrous system with fuel and allow your stock fuel system to feed only the engine.
Chances are your motor is ok. Forged piston engines can take alot of abuse, and when those plugs broke, they either quit firing or developed less spark which lowered the possibility of combustable damage. After you borescope the motor, I suggest that you run it on the dyno, making a nitrous pull with only the fuel solenoid working (keep nos bottle closed) and read A/F. The motor should go way rich. If this occurs, your fuel system and solenoid is most likely working properly. Then you can introduce nitrous in small jet sizes, read a/f again and continue to tune up the power until you reach the maximum gain with an a/f of no higher than 11.
99/RT 10,
Just been real busy lately, but wanted to defend good ole' nitrous systems once again.
Jedi
If you are insistant on running gasoline as the fuel source, I suggest changing the pump, feedline and injectors. Or consider a front mount fuel cell and pump (like the one that we offer) which will supply the nitrous system with fuel and allow your stock fuel system to feed only the engine.
Chances are your motor is ok. Forged piston engines can take alot of abuse, and when those plugs broke, they either quit firing or developed less spark which lowered the possibility of combustable damage. After you borescope the motor, I suggest that you run it on the dyno, making a nitrous pull with only the fuel solenoid working (keep nos bottle closed) and read A/F. The motor should go way rich. If this occurs, your fuel system and solenoid is most likely working properly. Then you can introduce nitrous in small jet sizes, read a/f again and continue to tune up the power until you reach the maximum gain with an a/f of no higher than 11.
99/RT 10,
Just been real busy lately, but wanted to defend good ole' nitrous systems once again.
Jedi
Fast Freddy
Enthusiast
i see multiple problems here. why chance a $10k+ motor with 91 octane gas when for $6 a gallon you can run 104 octane unleaded race gas when you spray? very cheap insurance if you ask me! also why use stock heat range plugs when colder spark plugs are readily available to you for $5 a peice that will prevent spark plug failure like you have experienced? when not using the juice your motor will only give up like 10 rwhp at the most. as far as the stock fuel pump goes that can be switched to a high volume pump for less than $500. thats still cheaper than your forged pistons cost. last but not least retarding your timing 6 degrees when you spray is FREE. so what kind of timing were you running when you hit this motor with a 50% increase in power over your stock output of 600 crank HP?
personally on a 600 HP motor i wouldn't spray more than a 200 HP shot even with all the suggestions i have made no matter how fat your A/F ratio is or how sophisticated your computer controlled progressive nitrous system is. i am not sure what kind of cylinder heads you are running or camshaft but i would venture to say that with a 300 hp shot of nitrous on a 600 HP motor that you are experiencing exhaust gas flow reversion. what kind of headers and exhaust sytem are you runnin?
personally on a 600 HP motor i wouldn't spray more than a 200 HP shot even with all the suggestions i have made no matter how fat your A/F ratio is or how sophisticated your computer controlled progressive nitrous system is. i am not sure what kind of cylinder heads you are running or camshaft but i would venture to say that with a 300 hp shot of nitrous on a 600 HP motor that you are experiencing exhaust gas flow reversion. what kind of headers and exhaust sytem are you runnin?
