rollymohan
Viper Owner
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Is there a nitrous kit available for cen V
nitrous
- Thread starter rollymohan
- Start date
Rolly,
This is a great kit for the Viper:
http://www.nitrousexpress.com/20325-10-dodge-viper-efi-dual-nozzle-100-300hp-with-10lb-bottle.html
I've installed numerous NX kits and am a big fan of their products!
Make sure you know what you're doing when 1) installing and, 2) using Nitrous............ ALWAYS PURGE FIRST!!
This is a great kit for the Viper:
http://www.nitrousexpress.com/20325-10-dodge-viper-efi-dual-nozzle-100-300hp-with-10lb-bottle.html
I've installed numerous NX kits and am a big fan of their products!
Make sure you know what you're doing when 1) installing and, 2) using Nitrous............ ALWAYS PURGE FIRST!!
JAY
Enthusiast
implementing fail parameters , highly recommended ! 
Nine Ball
Enthusiast
I rarely purge, only after swapping bottles out.
klamathpro
Viper Owner
How so? Purging is so unnecessary on the Viper. When the line fills with 1000 PSI of Nitrous, the air in there gets compressed, to the point that you end up with very little air volume in the line. The time it takes for the entire line to purge through the foggers is literally about a second. Additionally, the V10 is so large and ***** in so much volume that even if you only had a couple hundred PSI of nitrous, you still wouldn't get backfire because if literally gulps all the fuel and would simply run rich. I have accidentally run a 125 shot of pure fuel in my GEN1 for several pulls (bottle was not open) and never had backfires. The funny thing is, I actually felt a boost in power with that extra fuel, but it felt like a cold nitrous bottle.
In short, purging is not necessary, it's just reassurance for that initial boost.
I too would like to know if anyone has bootle-fed the GENV. If SRT won't unlock the PCM, then maybe nitrous is still an option. With everything forged, I would assume a simple 100 shot wouldn't hurt even with no timing retard.
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I was in contact with Nitrous Outlet and received 2 messages in reply. . .
First message:
We’re in the process of developing a plate system for those cars actually! They are being cut now and then the hardline side of it will be next to develop. We have a number of different fuel cells and designs that we could make work but we don’t at the moment have a dedicated fuel cell for the cars. We can certainly keep you posted for the release of the plate system though!
Second message;
We are still in development on that plate system. As far as a switch panel, we are trying to find a car to do some R&D on to design a switch panel & dedicated fuel system.
I asked about a Gen 4 system, however the plates would be the same. Nearly all of the components will be the same from the Gen 4 to gen 5.
G5 has a plastic intake the TB may be diff.
[Z BBCQUOTE=Getnlwr;3239289]I was in contact with Nitrous Outlet and received 2 messages in reply. . .
First message:
We’re in the process of developing a plate system for those cars actually! They are being cut now and then the hardline side of it will be next to develop. We have a number of different fuel cells and designs that we could make work but we don’t at the moment have a dedicated fuel cell for the cars. We can certainly keep you posted for the release of the plate system though!
Second message;
We are still in development on that plate system. As far as a switch panel, we are trying to find a car to do some R&D on to design a switch panel & dedicated fuel system.
I asked about a Gen 4 system, however the plates would be the same. Nearly all of the components will be the same from the Gen 4 to gen 5.[/QUOTE]
[Z BBCQUOTE=Getnlwr;3239289]I was in contact with Nitrous Outlet and received 2 messages in reply. . .
First message:
We’re in the process of developing a plate system for those cars actually! They are being cut now and then the hardline side of it will be next to develop. We have a number of different fuel cells and designs that we could make work but we don’t at the moment have a dedicated fuel cell for the cars. We can certainly keep you posted for the release of the plate system though!
Second message;
We are still in development on that plate system. As far as a switch panel, we are trying to find a car to do some R&D on to design a switch panel & dedicated fuel system.
I asked about a Gen 4 system, however the plates would be the same. Nearly all of the components will be the same from the Gen 4 to gen 5.[/QUOTE]
A few additional thoughts::
1. Nitrous should not be a gas, for it to work it has to be a liquid. Cardinal rule, never set up the nitrous delivery system where the cross sectional area gets larger as the nitrous runs forward , in other words, piping, filters and fittings start large and get small.
2. If you want to play, purging is not needed, if you race you want to purge. There is no way to route the nitrous line in a viper and keep the line away from heat. If you race you do not want 5-7 feet of gas in the line, all vipers have that notorious bog about 50-100 ft off the line, that is where you want liquid.
3. Nitrous back fires are usually a temporary lean condition. If you shut down the bottle and open the wet fuel stage you will run rich. If the car is set up right it should have a slight hesitation. This should always be the first test when setting up a new system.
4. No one has mentioned the need for an onboard a/f logging system. Why would anyone take guesses where you could ruin the engine. I have found over a point diff from 70 degree days to 90 degree days.
5. Safety devices: window switch; wot switch; fuel pressure shut-down switch.
1. Nitrous should not be a gas, for it to work it has to be a liquid. Cardinal rule, never set up the nitrous delivery system where the cross sectional area gets larger as the nitrous runs forward , in other words, piping, filters and fittings start large and get small.
2. If you want to play, purging is not needed, if you race you want to purge. There is no way to route the nitrous line in a viper and keep the line away from heat. If you race you do not want 5-7 feet of gas in the line, all vipers have that notorious bog about 50-100 ft off the line, that is where you want liquid.
3. Nitrous back fires are usually a temporary lean condition. If you shut down the bottle and open the wet fuel stage you will run rich. If the car is set up right it should have a slight hesitation. This should always be the first test when setting up a new system.
4. No one has mentioned the need for an onboard a/f logging system. Why would anyone take guesses where you could ruin the engine. I have found over a point diff from 70 degree days to 90 degree days.
5. Safety devices: window switch; wot switch; fuel pressure shut-down switch.
rollymohan
Viper Owner
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i am runnung nitrous in my srt8 with a kit i made up for the last 7 years with no problems.i used a diablo to retard timimg.my brother uses ntrous on his 02 gts on a stock engine and runs 10.50.however if i cannot retard timing on my gen v i will need a propane kit.You see i wanted to do at least 200 shot.
The G5 is uncharted territory, however, there were several G2's running a 200 shot without timing retard. Running at 10.5 to 11.0 a/f slows the rate of ignition and cools the charge, it has a similiar affect as pulling advance. Again, that was a G2, no matter what the car, to be on the safe side IMHO you have to run an onboard a/f logger. That is way cheaper than a rebuild.
There was one G5 running a 200 shot without timing retard, however, he has not posted for several months. The PCM was pulling power near the high end on the dyno.
There was one G5 running a 200 shot without timing retard, however, he has not posted for several months. The PCM was pulling power near the high end on the dyno.
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
Yeah, he crashed his car at the strip his last run.
No, just assume that the OEM timing is safe..... <smackshead> (You must not have sprayed too many cars over the years...) Bad BAD advice.
Assuming the OEM timing is very aggressive and start out with a very small shot. Monitor your A:F and monitor for knock retard!!!!!
I simply can't believe that NO ONE here takes issue with those of you saying purging isn't necessary!!! LOL!!!!
99 times out of 100 you won't have a Nitrous backfire.. But that ONE TIME you do... Well, been there, done that! Learn from my mistake!! Do a quick purge through the motor once or twice before you whack it! Trust me!!! It gets expensive when luck runs out!!!
Assuming the OEM timing is very aggressive and start out with a very small shot. Monitor your A:F and monitor for knock retard!!!!!
I simply can't believe that NO ONE here takes issue with those of you saying purging isn't necessary!!! LOL!!!!
99 times out of 100 you won't have a Nitrous backfire.. But that ONE TIME you do... Well, been there, done that! Learn from my mistake!! Do a quick purge through the motor once or twice before you whack it! Trust me!!! It gets expensive when luck runs out!!!
klamathpro
Viper Owner
That's because Nitrous backfire isn't caused by not purging, it's cause by a lean nitrous condition. Purging is not necessary for engine safety, you've been misinformed. If you had a backfire before (probably not on a Viper), it was not caused by air in the line. Without purging you may experience a delay or stumble, but not a backfire. Fuel backfires are caused by puddling in the intake. The fuel is not going to puddle, the air in the line is still compressed to 900+ PSI, it's still rushing out the fogger with the same force as the nitrous. And the V10 is sucking so much air at 3000+ RPM that the fuel will not have a chance to puddle. The worst you'll experience is a slight bog.
http://ls1tech.com/forums/nitrous-oxide/1311386-do-you-need-purge.html
Let me be crystal clear here - you are asking for trouble if you don't purge before a pass!
I am not advocating that you need to buy a purge kit! (in fact, I discourage that) However, I am explaining that you need to do 1 or 2 quick hits into the motor (no load/in neutral) above 3K RPM or you ARE going to have a fireball eventually. This is fact. I don't give a damn what you think or who told you differently. You/they are misinformed. This is not up for debate - this is factual.
The liquid Nitrous Oxide in the Nitrous line (from the bottle to the 'noids) tends to turn into gaseous Nitrous after a short amount of time (Boyle's Law). When you go and hit the Nitrous you have a fixed size orifice for fuel and a fixed size orifice for Liquid Nitrous Oxide shooting the mix into your intake (We're talking wet system here obviously)... But, the mixtures are WAY off going into the intake because now your spraying the same amount of fuel but you're spraying gaseous Nitrous Oxide instead of liquid Nitrous Oxide (which is a fraction as dense as it's liquid counterpart). Usually this results in a minor bog (rich condition)... However, if the stars align and you get a little detonation (knock) and this mixture just happens to be super fat (again, because we're shooting gaseous Nitrous and not liquid Nitrous as intended) and then liquid Nitrous Oxide hits the mix and you get rapid flame propagation in your intake, then KABOOM.
You folks seem to think that the "big ole V10 is moving SO much air that this won't happen" to our beloved Vipers. WRONG! I've had this happen to me on a 600 CI with twin 88's (under boost) on it! Now THAT'S moving some AIR!
I am not advocating that you need to buy a purge kit! (in fact, I discourage that) However, I am explaining that you need to do 1 or 2 quick hits into the motor (no load/in neutral) above 3K RPM or you ARE going to have a fireball eventually. This is fact. I don't give a damn what you think or who told you differently. You/they are misinformed. This is not up for debate - this is factual.
The liquid Nitrous Oxide in the Nitrous line (from the bottle to the 'noids) tends to turn into gaseous Nitrous after a short amount of time (Boyle's Law). When you go and hit the Nitrous you have a fixed size orifice for fuel and a fixed size orifice for Liquid Nitrous Oxide shooting the mix into your intake (We're talking wet system here obviously)... But, the mixtures are WAY off going into the intake because now your spraying the same amount of fuel but you're spraying gaseous Nitrous Oxide instead of liquid Nitrous Oxide (which is a fraction as dense as it's liquid counterpart). Usually this results in a minor bog (rich condition)... However, if the stars align and you get a little detonation (knock) and this mixture just happens to be super fat (again, because we're shooting gaseous Nitrous and not liquid Nitrous as intended) and then liquid Nitrous Oxide hits the mix and you get rapid flame propagation in your intake, then KABOOM.
You folks seem to think that the "big ole V10 is moving SO much air that this won't happen" to our beloved Vipers. WRONG! I've had this happen to me on a 600 CI with twin 88's (under boost) on it! Now THAT'S moving some AIR!
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Nine Ball
Enthusiast
Purging is serious bizniss.
Nitrous backfires can happen, regardless of if a car is purged or not. All it takes is a hint of pre-ignition with an intake valve open. That is why I only run C16 fuel when I'm spraying.
Nitrous backfires can happen, regardless of if a car is purged or not. All it takes is a hint of pre-ignition with an intake valve open. That is why I only run C16 fuel when I'm spraying.
klamathpro
Viper Owner
Doing a couple neutral 3k hits of nitrous does more damage than good to your engine. Dave Koehler, who had been racing nitrous since the 60's and was a nitrous tech rep at IHRA and NMCA said that "any time you free rev an engine, with or without nitrous, you shorten its life. The reason is that the components move so fast that the oil system can’t keep up, so for a brief nano-second in time there is the potential for the rod bearing to touch the crank without the oil cushion. This “touch” increases the bearing clearances and it just gets bigger and bigger as time goes on. No load means that the pistons and rods are swinging out and jerking back in the opposite direction. The load keeps a cushion effect that keeps things under control. In the bad old days of stick shifts and no rev limiters it was a given that if you missed a gear you must immediately change the bearings. If you did not it was a sure bet you would be picking the rods off the ground within the next 5-6 laps. Its up to you."
And there have been rare instances where purging through the engine CAUSED nitrous backfire. The "correct" way to purge through the engine is with both solenoids, and under load (which no one does). Which in essence is not purging at all, it's the same as doing a normal test pull. If you are going to purge, don't do it into the engine.
http://www.dragracingonline.com/technical/nitrousnews/n2opits/ii_5.html
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=28295
And there have been rare instances where purging through the engine CAUSED nitrous backfire. The "correct" way to purge through the engine is with both solenoids, and under load (which no one does). Which in essence is not purging at all, it's the same as doing a normal test pull. If you are going to purge, don't do it into the engine.
http://www.dragracingonline.com/technical/nitrousnews/n2opits/ii_5.html
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=28295
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Nine Ball
Enthusiast
Purging INTO the engine? That is highly dumb. External purge solenoid, for me.
klamathpro
Viper Owner
Well, we didn't get to where we are at by being a Ding-****.
I'm sorry, I couldn't resist. I'm stopping now.
Malu59RT
Enthusiast
The Nitrous Outlet plate kit is actually being developed on a Gen IV, for a local owner. He will post up once he gets it all finalized on his car, and has used Nitrous Outlet for at least his last 10 cars, with great success.
Another Texas member ran nitrous in his Gen IV for a while, and surprised quite a few people. I believe the car made a bit over 750rwhp before being sold.
Another Texas member ran nitrous in his Gen IV for a while, and surprised quite a few people. I believe the car made a bit over 750rwhp before being sold.
I know Torrie McPhail is running it on his 2010. He sent me the photos of it a while back an d a breakdown of what parts he used.
Voltage booster on the fuel pump when the nitrous is active, I also remember this is the controller he was using. He didn't tell me what the settings were though.
http://www.jmschip.com/jms-progressive-nitrous-controller/
He did tell me he's run quite a few bottles through the car already on a 200 shot, Fills up with 92 octane and adds a bottle of Torco per tank when using the juice.
Voltage booster on the fuel pump when the nitrous is active, I also remember this is the controller he was using. He didn't tell me what the settings were though.
http://www.jmschip.com/jms-progressive-nitrous-controller/
He did tell me he's run quite a few bottles through the car already on a 200 shot, Fills up with 92 octane and adds a bottle of Torco per tank when using the juice.
Tom and Vipers
Enthusiast
Old thread but remember: Gen 2 (and probably Gen 1) does not have a knock sensor. (and uses KEY ON BARO instead of an actual BARO sensor.)
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