No postings for non-Viper owners, thats what I say!!! Admins...

[PMUM]

Moderators,
I think it's time to close, delete, move or "ban" this post! It actually got some responses and a little fire sign on the folder which usually means it gets closed the next day. Does anybody notice that the "kill" posts, "smack" posts and people saying stupid things (like this post) always get the most responses? Then some geezer complains that he is tired of reading the same post over and over and can't seem to find his Zaino tips or posts where merchandisers are hawking their "wares" and the thread gets shut down immediately.

Even though Vipermad took more than his fair share of punishment last week in the infamous thread (another 70+ posts in a day that was shut down) at least he seems to be the only one trying to explain why these posts are getting pulled. Unfortunately, the answer is usually "it wasn't me" or "it got moved". If nobody is violating the 'rules' and a lot of people are responding then leave the **** post alone! If people aren't interested, they'll quit responding.

I'm sure that there are a lot of folks that in between looking for their beloved Waltons reruns on PAX are truly looking for Zaino tips and brake pads with the least dust; I say more power to them! But if they don't laugh out loud when Kid'97GTS drops a scud on somebody then they can avoid that thread.

If that doesn't work then I'll start a petition for PAX to run a Matlock Marathon to keep the censors busy.

WAR PAX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Frank 03SRT]

I suggest we recognize those that contribute funds to run this site (I believe part of our VCA dues pay for this, right??) vs. those that just benefit from it or contribute to it. I keep hearing the push for new members, so let's advertise their committment to the VCA.

If I am correct in the assumption that dues pay this site, let's give those VCA members a "V" in their "Registered" area (left side of their post) . If you own a Viper and don't pay dues, you get a viper head. If you do both, you get both.

I don't think we should bar anyone or put up a special area for members only to post. It might get real boring there -- if you look at the visitors vs. board members posting, it is usually 2 to 1. Anyway, most of these visitors wouldn't be here if they weren't interested in one of the best sports cars on the road.

 

[Joseph Houss]

All these suggestions and comments are extraordinary! We've addressed these issues many times in the past, and I have "campaigned" previously for a method of clicking a button that would allow you to display ONLY those messages that come from VCA members (wasn't available on the old site, Tony, maybe now?).

This would be the best of both worlds, as everyone would be able to post, but if anyone wanted to just see those posts that "belonged" to members, they could.

The big problem is administration, as now we would have to maintain a database to confirm all VCA members, and each day/month/year have to "upgrade" each person with their new status.

Remember, I'm saying VCA member, NOT Viper owner (as that would be almost impossible to confirm without an unreasonable amount of faxed paperwork).

By the way, there was only one comment in this whole thread that I clearly disagree with, and that one had mentioned that VCA membership doesn't have its' rewards if a local region "isn't active". Your VCA is constantly working for YOU. Here's just a few of the "Perks" of membership: Viper Magazine, VCA Notes, This Website (yes, we actually own our own servers now), Zone Rendezvous, VERY EXCLUSIVE AND UNIQUE RAFFLE CARS, Discounts from vendors, exclusive track time and most important, Your consolodated voice in speaking to those Daimler/Chrysler powers that will help you have more opportunities to enjoy VOI's, special events, and hopefully, a faster chance at grabbing a 2003 Snake!

And as far as your region not being active, what better way to change that issue than to get involved. I have yet to meet a VCA President that wouldn't be ecstatic if a member said he wanted to become an event coordinator!

 

[jim93rt]

Well I guess I'm out of luck I'm too old I'm too fat I'm too short My car is too old It's too slow Not enough mods I'm depressed, I'll just have to leave work, take my car and my clubs and go play some golf Thanks for showing me the error of my ways Bye now

 

[Tenney]

I'm all in favor of making the site more complicated. And "members only" couldn't be a more applicable term for this dedicated exclusionary section. I'll be eagerly watching the message icon glossary for the addition of a "secret handshake" graphic.

 

[Supercharged Vipermad]

I think only I should be able to post.

I must admit that this is the best UBB I have been on. . . There isnt so many people that I have no idea who is who. Other UBBs you see a person post then you never see them again. . .

I like it.

You must be registered for see images

Keith

 

[Supercharged Vipermad]

I think only I should be able to post!

You must be registered for see images

Here's my 2 cents

I must admit that this is the best UBB I have been on. . . There isnt so many people that I have no idea who is who. Other UBBs you see a person post then you never see them again. . . Leave it the way it is.. .Unless it gets out of hand of course. I dont hang out at Ferrari forum because ferraris are ***. (Hi Timmy

You must be registered for see images

)

You must be registered for see images

Keith

 

[kverges]

I have been mostly lurking, when I can get here, but thought I'd sound off anyway ;-)

1. Limiting access would be a huge mistake, not only for traffic, but it would make us look like a bunch of elitist snobs and frankly do a lot of damage to the goodwill that most Viper owners try to spread about our cars and fellow enthusiasts.

2. I've said it before and I'll say it again: If you don't like a post, DON'T RESPOND. IGNORE IT. It just drives me crazy that people will jump through hoops to control other people's expression, rather than the simple expedient of just tuning out the stuff that is offensive or boring or stupid or whatever.

3. Why do you think people post inflammatory comments? To see the only thing more stupid: REPLIES. I don't know if it is to get attention or notoriety or what, but if you would not respond, the offensive behavior would die on the vine.

4. Here's another and more egalitarian approach: No posting without meaningful and real ID information. I put my real name up and most real people put up meaningful information. I really don't get the need for using a "handle" like we are using CB radios, "good buddies," if that handle is used to the exclusion of real identity and to gain some kind of anonymity. If you think you need anonymity because you are about to write something that might incite others to violence, perhaps you really should not make that post. Or perhaps we should make sure people can find you ;-)

OK, I think I may have already started to violate one or more of my own rules, so I'll sign off.

Keith Verges - Dallas

 

[Mike Brunton]

Note to moderators....

please, Please, PLEASE, *PLEASE* ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS leave a note on the original thread when it is moved.

I know there is a little "arrow" icon next to it, but that's not too easy to see or to understand.

I was reading this thread in the "Main" forum, and when I went to hit "reply", I saw it had been locked. I was really upset/frustrated for a moment, until I checked and then saw it here... then I understood what happened.

Tony, I know you said you were going to move it, and that's why I looked here, but I bet there are people who didn't know to look over here for it, and to them it's just "another locked thread".

Can we modify the BBS policy so that WHENEVER (*NO* exceptions!) a thread is locked or moved, an explanatory note is the LAST message in the old location or prior to the locking. There have been many occasions where someone has gotten upset over a thread being locked or deleted, when in reality it was just moved. It's happened to me too! I think it is a very small thing for moderators to do, and would save great amounts of harsh feelings, and frustration for members.

On the subject of different icons, it's a good idea - and NOT elitist at all. It gives non-VCA members incentive to join - you get the icon next to your name. Since Joe Houss (our VP) agrees this is a good idea, and Tony (who runs the site) said he could do it, what else do we need to do in order to make this happen? When you sign up for the VCA, your ownership of a Viper is already verified, unless you sign up as a "affiliate" member or whatever. National VCA HQ obviously has lists of who is and is not a VCA member, so let's just use that list. All current board members would just have to notify Tony that they are a VCA member and provide their member #, and a change would be made to the registration page so you can enter your VCA # when you register.

So is this a "go", or do we need to do something else?

 

[Mike Brunton]

Tony,

I just saw the big red text at the top that says the topic has been moved. To be honest, UBB is a great system, but there is so much going on everywhere on the screen that I tend not to notice stuff like that. For me, I got to what I thought was the last post, and then I see "thread closed".

I know on the Corvette Forum, the moderator always makes a final post before moving the thread saying something like "guys, this is more about layout - so it's being moved there" and then it gets moved. I think we should follow the same policy. I know you said it earlier in the thread Tony, so I'm more speaking in general that as a policy, I think the last post on any moved, closed, or locked thread should be a brief explanation by the person that did it saying why.

I just say this because it will save you a LOT of grief when people wonder why their thread was closed, or moved, or whatever...

 

[Mike Brunton]

Tony,

I agree 100%- YOU have been good about leaving a note... I think alot of people vent their frustration through or towards you, because you're sort of the most visible person who "appears" to run the forum (the man behind the curtain). I know there are a bunch of people who "put on this show", and I guess I just meant it as a good rule to follow in general - wasn't directed at you in any way. Thanks for your hard work for this board!

 

[PMUM]

Vipermad,
In honor of the moderators I will attempt to make my first post without cracking back on somebody. Why didn't you (or any of the other moderators) respond to my last post where I asked why popular posts get shut down or moved? Sure this isn't Viper General Discussion, but take a look at what's up there today and tell me why they ALL haven't been moved. Why is the guy who is asking about a second car still on the "main" board for well over a week?

Seems kinda funny that this post (and the others last week) gets moved because people are questioning the moderation, but the other lame-as* non Viper related posts aren't getting moved. Also, why do we even need to have so many different topic areas? Is it that hard to read the topic of a thread before you click on it? Don't you think that 99% of us (JonB excluded) are SICK of seeing the "Thanks JonB for selling me that part..." nonsense? He's a great guy, I've ordered parts from him personally (recently), but is that any more relevant than this post? I didn't post to thank the dude at Subway for making me a fine meatball sandwich today. I suppose I could start thanking everybody on the main Viper page that does their job because apparently that's worthy of "A" page status. I guess we can move the moderator comments to a Jon B glorification post because then we know it will stay on the front page.

I'm not looking for you guys to stop the JonB stuff. It really doesn't bother me. What bothers me is that the moderators are justifying quelling a "hot" topic with inconsistent rationale. Half the stuff on the main board isn't 'Viper related" but who cares? Who was it that said "The moderator that moderates least moderates best"? Oh yeah, it was me!

 

[PMUM]

PS
Vipermad, I at least appreciate the fact that you are trying to satisfy most people. But who are the other moderators that are shutting down the posts? Why don't they chime in?

 

[Kid97GTS]

Dam*it Mumford, stop making suggestions to change the Board layout - I want my gold star (for Viper ownership), red viper head (for VCA membership), blue smiley face (for attendance), green smiley face with tongue sticking out (for banging relentlessly on Lil' Whoadie), green dollar sign (for ordering far too many items from Board sponsors) and black "X" (for banishment) next to my name!!!!!

Your suggestions for a list of postings with easy to read headings and responses sounds suspiciously like the "old" Board, and we all know there wasn't nearly enough signage on the "old" Board to ever consider going back to it. Besides, there was no way to give me my stars, smiley faces and "X"'s on the "old" Board!

WAR I HAVE MORE STARS AND SMILEY FACES NEXT TO MY NAME THAN YOU DO

 

[Kid97GTS]

WARNING: DO NOT READ THE POST BELOW IF YOU ARE EVEN MILDLY IRRITATED BY POSTS THAT DO NOT MENTION THE LATEST ZAINO TECHNIQUES, WAYS TO LOWER YOUR SEAT 2", OR WHICH EXHAUST SOUNDS BEST WITH OR WITHOUT HIGH FLOW CATS, OR POSTS WHICH MAY CONTAIN AN OUNCE OF HUMOR WHILE TRYING TO ILLUSTRATE A POINT (IEAT AND WAYNE I THINK THIS MEANS YOU).

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vipermad:

If you thanked JonB...that would be "Viper-related"...if you thanked Joe-Bob for the great sandwich, that would be "Off Topic".

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
What if I thanked JonB for increasing my performance and also posted a dyno sheet to back it up? Which of the three categories does that fit in?

Or even better, what if JonB, or Tom, or HMS, etc. responded to a question regarding the performance of certain heads in an orange cone setting and included the ubiquitous, "I also happen to have these heads in stock in limited quantities at a special sale price." Would that post go in supplier specials?

And more importantly, what if in the same orange cone thread, PMUM, brett (oh no, he doesn't have a red viper head OR a gold star next to his name), or I started to bang on the originator of such thread for posing preposterous comparisons akin to "Who would win in a steel cage match - Superman or Aquaman?" When would this thread get deleted or moved to some super-secret double probation password encrypted forum?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vipermad:

And KID....How about a little image that says "MOD" with a red X through it!

You must be registered for see images

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tony, how about a little orange cone with a red X for me, and a big shiny set of silver CDI heads for Driving School.


BTW, if YOU are not the one who decides what forums to have and what format to present, exactly who should I direct my constructive comments to? Thanks.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Excellent points and a great thread to read. I can answer one of Kid's questions unequivocally:

<center>

You must be registered for see images attach

</center>

Sorry, couldn't resist finding a good image on the web. Of course it could cause this to move to Off Topic now...

You must be registered for see images

Chris

 

[BurnR8]

98rt...hope you are not referring to me just because I am too lazy to take a picture of my car....I think this shot is pretty cool actually and when I first used it I got 17 emails requesting the the .mpg....my RT is parked right next to my gremlin...just wanted to make sure you were not slamming me...

 

[Y2K5SRT]

OK, OK, I'll throw in my 2¢, even if this thread is never read again in the Board and Site Layout Suggestions section.

You must be registered for see images

I firmly believe that ALL people should be allowed to read and post on this message board. Why? Well, in late April of 1999 there was a non-owner that started posting on the previous board. He asked some stupid questions and got some great answers that helped solidify his decision to buy a Viper. He did not get his car until November of that year. As a founding member of his local VCA region, he showed up at the inaugural meeting that June with an MGW shift knob and no car. Since then, he has worked his **** off to make that region the very best it can be. Had he not been allowed to post on the boards originally, his enthusiasm would have been dampened and he may very well have chosen to "go it alone" and skip the club altogether.

Now, on that note I would make a suggestion to all of you Viper owners that don't belong to the VCA: <u><FONT size="4"><FONT COLOR="red">JOIN TODAY.</FONT s></FONT c></u> Sure, Joe makes a great case for joining with such things as VIPER Magazine, Zone Rendezvous, etc. Let's reemphasize this very message board. While anybody can post and read here, it is provided by the VCA and many of the most active people answering questions just happen to be very active in the VCA as well (ever heard of JonB?) Many of us tip our Viper techs for a job well done. Is it so much to ask that you join the very organization that has provided the means to answer more questions than just about any single tech? I have seen owners posting dozens of questions here and know for a fact that they don't belong to the VCA. Nothing personal folks, but if you can afford the car, the taxes, and the insurance on one of these, a VCA membership is small change. Give a little back to the organization that is providing so much to you.

One more thing: Gerald had made a comment about not joining because the local members didn't necessarily share the same interests in the car as he did. I am not going to argue with that, as many of the members in our local club don't share my passion for enjoying the car while it is moving. However, I will say that Gerald should join for exactly that reason: He can provide energy and vitality to the group and possibly help bring more owners like himself into the fold. I know that a couple owners in our club have joined me at the drag strip and others are big track enthusiasts. The important thing is that you can pick and choose your events and meetings to attend. We have several members that have only been to one meeting, with others that we have never even met! When we organized the Richard Petty 'Viper' Experience for this August, several members "came out of the woodwork" to sign up. This event wasn't available to non-members in the area.

Bottom line (finally): The board should be open to anybody and everybody. Moderate as necessary. If you are a Viper owner and don't belong to the VCA, SHAME ON YOU. Join the club even if you never attend a single meeting. Your dues help make this board possible. You will find it repaid in spades.

Chris

 

[brett]

I paid my dues (call me stupid) and I want some sort of designation next to my name d*mn it! How about a $100 dollar bill blowing away in the wind. That's what I want for us idiot's that don't own a Viper anymore, but still continue to contribute to the V I P E R N A T I O N !! I think it should be the only insignia that actually has animation... quite honestly it would be the only thing we paid for at this point and I think we deserve it! Oh yeah one more thing... If John B. is leaving Chicago on a train that is traveling at 55 MPH and Driving School is weaving down hwy 66 at 14 MPH, and they are both going to Skip Barber's school in Monterey who would get there first and....oh wait a minute...am I in the word problem forum...oh crap I get so confused. OK let's start again..If "KID" is posting something funny and at 4 pm PST and Dukes of Hazard is over at 8 pm EST how long will it take one of the mystery moderators to lock the thread that his hilarious antics had "corrupted"? Am I in the right forum?

 

[BigsViper]

I'm for recognizing VCA members somehow in their sig or avitar; some of Kid's suggestions are funny given recent goings on.

However reading this thread there is already a modicum of elitism, exhibited by PMum, Kid and anyone else who would trash those with different reasons for owning a Viper than their own. What wrong with a guy that likes to have the shiniest, classiest ride in town? Or the guy that likes to Autocross or Drag Race? Or someone who cares about the sound of their exhaust? Like it's been said, if you don't like the topic don't read it! I realize there is a fair amount of sarcasm in some of these posts but a time or two I felt self-concious about the reasons I love my Viper - those above plus I love to drive it hard, have been to racing school and a few track events and looking for more. Then I considered the source of the ridicule and laughed at myself. Unfortunately I don't have unlimited discretionary funds to purchase an RV and drag my groupies across the country. But I'm not going to trash those that can, unless it's all in good fun.

Having said that I think the board needs to stay open to all and let the smack talkers have it out, That's Entertainment! Just don't get too caught up in the "Holier than thou 'cause I'm a SCCA/ALMS Wanna Be" crapola.

 

[brett]

What do you have to say about that PMUM....?

Signed,

Groupie.

WAR ALMS WANNA BE'S !!!

 

[Kid97GTS]

Don,
Perhaps some of the smack that has become a vehicle for illustrating the absurdity of some recent proposals has obscured the message. I don't have a problem at all with guys buying their Viper so they can shine it up, put it in parades, zip around the orange cones or even park it in front of 7-11 and take pictures of it (not that anyone should care what I think of their motivations, but hey, you bought it, do what you enjoy). BUT, I do have a problem with anyone who can so eagerly read the 500th post on Zainoing or a verbal description of the sound a Corsa exhaust makes yet still call for the deletion or censure of posts containing anything short of praise for sponsors, moderators or other members, no matter how ridiculous their words or actions. Worse yet, the same guys who can't seem to get enough of the same old header debate or the identity of the guy driving the yellow RT/10 on I-10 then consider locking out non-owners or members or relegating them to some corner of the forum. I'm pretty sure that just as I am able to skip a thread detailing how to apply a clay bar, other members can skip over a header discussion that has become something of a smack fest without the need to immediately delete it for fear of harming our sensibilities. I guess I'm not a big fan of anyone deciding for me what I should be reading and who should be allowed to contribute in a forum setting.

BTW, I guess Aquaman vs. Superman was kinda like Driving School vs. Mumdodge - lets make it interesting and go for Wolverine vs. Superman......

 

[Kid97GTS]

Oh yeah, hey Mumford, when do I get my all expense paid trip to scenic Wisconsin via Autobus de Mumford???? Shotgun!

 

[PMUM]

Vipermad,
There are 23,000+ posts in the "A" group, 500ish in this area. Do the math. Of course bustin' a post outta the main forum into the 'dungeon' is gonna end it. If people are responding to something in massive numbers, leave it alone! It's seems like some Moderator (not you) who doesn't comprehend any of the amazing humor being dropped can't stand it and tries to crush it. Did you not laugh out loud when the "tuner bake sale" line was dropped? If you didn't, turn off the computer and go back to watching Matlock. Also, who is the mystery Moderator that censors any relatively humorous post? We want names!

BigS,
When did any of us show any elitism because we road race? We talk a lot about it, but only joke about drag racers and autocrossers because it's funny. There's nothing rude or derogatory said. Show me something said that is truly elitist. Also, you might not know the background. If you kept up with the posts that have been moved around, closed and banned, you'd realize that the autocross smack came as a result of one of the stupidest things ever said. When Driving School called out Hennessey for having heads that flow better than Caldwell (God forbid) is when that started. His solution was to throw out the flow bench numbers, drag a set of heads across the country to install on autocross cars and test them whilst dodging cones (Isn't that how Smokey Yunick did it?). That would determine the best heads--quite possibly the dumbest way to attack somebody. The "cone" jokes were a result of that post. I guess you can't be blamed for missing that one because the post got deleted (not moved or closed) within a day.

As for the shiny "look at me and my car" guys. They are the only ones that have it coming. I think they make us all look bad. I can see taking the car to a car show (or gathering) or VCA meeting or whatever, but some of these guys take it WAY too far. People gawk at the car, not the driver. These guys don't understand that. Everytime a bozo stands around beside his Viper actin' cool people just think Viper drivers are insecure egomaniacs. Who do you picture when you think of an IROC-Z? Or a Diablo? That's where we're headed (if we're not there already).

BTW, when a 16 year old comes up and goes crazy for the car he doesn't think you are cool, he thinks your car is cool. Also, I'm sorry if I offended you by being successful enough in my business to be able to afford to drive an RV around the country with my groupies. Maybe I'll sell it and we'll all just meet at the local Dairy Queen to show off our cars. Will that make you happy?

 

[BigsViper]

PMUM - I agree with your post, except here we prefer to cruise by the Sonic. That's where us beer-bellied mid-lifers get the teeny bops all excited, and no, that would not make me happy. I would only be happy if I got to ride shotgun instead of Kid or Brett (although getting a rise out of you has sufficed for now!).

You must be registered for see images

I did catch the post about the header war and was thoroughly entertained, although I missed the **** comments around thread-closing/deleting time.

Congrats on your success and your belief that your racing ego is any better than a posers. I'm not flaming your success or your ability to do anything, I just think that no one can make you or me look bad, we are responsible for our own character, and the image we project for ourselves and the club. There are great guys that like their shiney Vipers and there are great racers and even great guys that are non-owners (or non-VCA members). Only elitists would try to pigeonhole and slam people based on their reasons for liking the Viper, or their posts.

To borrow your terms: WAR ELITIST SMACKERS!!

 

[PMUM]

Tony, I think the problem is that any post Kid is involved in gets redirected. How come the "What 2nd car do I buy..." has been on the "A" board forever? Is that more Viper related than this post? That's just one example. Because there are so many sub-boards I can make a case for moving almost all of the posts on the "A" board. It doesn't seem like there is a massive Spring cleaning, you're just cleaning Kid's room (and I'm in the upper bunk) and putting stuff away in a place he can't easily find.

 

[brett]

Ahhh the Heartland... Who was it that said, "it's called the Heartland because the Brains ain't there".....

Seriously...Sonic has some good stuff. I'm not to sure how they decided that there are only two kinds of burger lovers though. With mustard or with mayonnaise? Maybe they have gone to the same schooling (or lack of) as some of the Viper owner vs. non-Viper owner post separation goons.

I do like their Cokes with crushed ice though!

WAR BURGER SEGREGATION!

 

[BigsViper]

Brett - That saying must have been authored by some fruit or nut in California. Maybe they were lamenting their own lack of brains for not attending to their power problems before the big bad energy companies from Texas caused them to have rolling brownouts (a convenient scapegoat for Governor Davis). Like this board, can't we all just get along?

WAR ALL EARLIER WARS!!

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

 

[brett]

I agree with you on this one Don. The government in this state has their heads planted so far up their a$$eS, to them every day is a brown out...literally!


...I liked it so much I had to post it!

 

[brett]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by brett:
If John B. is leaving Chicago on a train that is traveling at 55 MPH and Driving School is weaving down hwy 66 at 14 MPH, and they are both going to Skip Barber's school in Monterey who would get there first and....


If "KID" is posting something funny and at 4 pm PST and Dukes of Hazard is over at 8 pm EST how long will it take one of the mystery moderators to lock the thread that his hilarious antics had "corrupted"? Am I in the right forum?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Answers to "pop quiz"

1) John B. arrives first. It doesn't matter where Driving School started on Hwy 66, he blows his power steering unit through his hood after 1 1/2 hours of "coning".

2) 8:07 pm EST. Search takes longer in the "seek and destroy" mode due to increased number of forums to scan for the "KID".

WAR JEALOUS WHINERS!