No Viper in Road and Track Performance Car of Year???

[doctorbob]

The only issue is what is SRT thinking when they supply unprepared cars to the media.

 

[Nine Ball]

It's pointless replying to your posts. Please do me a favor and don't even reply to my posts. Now go off and take some fancy wheel pics or something...

Thank you!

Hmmm, considering that I actually pay to be a member and use this forum, and you do not, maybe it is you that should take a hike?

Read up on my posts about Gen 5 cars, and you'll see that I have been one of the most vocal and critical about the lack of marketing, lack of parts availability, lack of tuning, etc... I also burned them about the poor prep/condition of the car that Motor Trend last tested. All well deserved.

This article you posted contains no Viper, had no involvement with SRT, yet you created a thread to bash them. Like we needed another type of these threads? That is the only point I keep trying to make, but you do not seem to understand.

Tony

 

[ACRsnake]

Had this rag included a Viper, and it won, would you have run out and bought one? Doubt it. So, who cares about another lame magazine article?

+1..................

 

[pathoguy]

considering that I actually pay to be a member and use this forum, and you do not, maybe it is you that should take a hike?

Guess I will take a hike too, since I have no intentions of ever joining the VCA. The "enthusiast" term is good enough for me. Being on my second viper and looking forward to my third in early 2014, I am an enthusiast only. If you limit opinions/posts to VCA members only, intellectual inbreeding will occur.

 

[Boxer12]

The OP poses a valid question...whether you agree with his criticism of SRT or not. The Viper's absence in the article is worth discussion on the Viper Forum...that's what a 'forum' is all about, no?

 

[Coloviper]

Magazine articles stacked against the Viper will not help nor sell a single car so forget about them! SRT did right and did not send a car. If you can not figure out that a best performance test the includes a Fiesta is complete BS then the SSG must be blinding you.

You have to also remember that A LOT of buyers never buy the first year model as well as a lot want convertibles. Many may not want to give up their 96-02 GTS and simple want to add a convertible. 2014 sales will be the tail of the tape. When the vert comes out and hopefully soon, it will be deciding factor along with ACR.

SRT doesn't owe anyone anything. They delivered you a SSG Viper and you love it so what is to complain about. If you gave no intention of buying a new one, then I don't understand the argument? How does it hurt the Viper you have and love? Attacking Gen V owners is just wrong! You should be thanking them for their support. Just saying!

 

[commandomatt]

I don't think because some of us are not ready to run out and buy a current model of the Gen V, necessarily means that we aren't worried about the survival of the Viper down the road.

Personally I can not get excited about what I see being offered (design). To a point where I will in fact buy something different. Having said that I also am very concerned about whats next for the Viper. I want it to succeed and sell so that more models and styles will be offered, just like previous generations. Maybe and hopefully one of those future models will get my attention

Now don't tell me that I need to make this possible by going out to buy a Gen V at this time to show my support. I am not about to plop down a 100K+ to get something I don't want to own. There should however be enough people that would fit perfectly in the current car but something is stopping them from moving forward.

I do believe that SRT will have to do something drastic to get buyers in the seats of these new cars. I do not for a second think that they are inferior in any way but it may come down to some serious incentives ($$) to get people to buy them. I am sure this is mechanically the best there has ever been. Once more people are driving them, more positive feedback will occur and ultimately start feeding the 'machine' which is necessary for future development to happen. Have to get this snowball effect started somehow

As a aggressive marketing strategy, the current Vipers need to get to a price point where it just becomes a no brainer. A deep discount as well as some great low interest, long term loans offered specifically for the Viper and all just to get the cars off the dealership lots. The sales incentive is not there to 'discount' the car and the quality but rather move them so that there will be room for the next ones.

If the current 2013's sit around for much longer, why would SRT or any of its dealers even want to mess with them down the line.

SRT needs to take a hit on these to pave the road and ensure that there is in fact a future for our Vipers

Matt

 

[Boxer12]

Let's be logical...SRT Viper is a great car, slight evolutionary improvements over the G4 (similar incremental development to legendary European makes like BMW, Porsche, Ferrari)...but it isn't sufficiently impressing current owners (who haven't driven it or probably seen in person) or the automotive media (who have driven it). The car is designed to appeal to a new demographic...btw, one that isn't buying. Due to the media's negative and/or lukewarm reviews? Is it an issue with the car or the marketing (incl. pricing)? Anyone who thinks media isn't important should consider the new Vette. Before it was even built or driven, it was a success. Why? Design? Performance? Personally, I don't think it's either. Just my 2c.

 

[Coloviper]

Sorry but I do not consider new Vette a success. It's look is pathetic. But they make cars for all owners which is good. Don't see a Vette in my future any time soon. New Mustang next year? Much prefer the Mustang over a Vette. To each their own though.

 

[Mamba52]

Just got back from a SRT event and drove the new Viper!!!!! Showed up in my new Vette. Car drives better the my Gen3 they should have done this sooner and SRT knows this. Problem is I now love driving the new Vette!!! The SRT rep came over sat in my car and loved it too.

I hope they can pull it off and release the Vert in (14) that should drum up sales.

 

[Ev1E9]

All SRT missed was another opportunity for a magazine to complain about the Viper's preconceived shortcomings. It would probably turn THE fastest or one of the fastest laps in the test, but get penalized for subjective categories such as: comfort, engine sound and storage. Then, it would still finish behind the Corvette and Porsche because the journalists who conducted the test felt less "comfortable" in the Viper. Whatever!!! The best thing SRT can do now is expand the driving events they are conducting and get butts in the car.

 

[SnakeBitten]

The SRT rep came over sat in my car and loved it too.

Wow is all I can say. Like I said way back when Magazine-Gate first began, SRT is GM's best marketing firm. Seems like they still are.

Nothing is going right for SRT while everything is going right for GM despite the expected growing pains of the new C7 and the G5. I understand that the owners of the G5 are tired of SRT being held accountable for this mess but everywhere you turn you just keep getting hit over the head with idiotic decision after decision ad nauseum. You just don't have the luxury of calling the Vette cheap, garbage etc anymore. Its got an interior and design that even SRT's own people have voiced approval of as seen by Mamba52's quote. Come on SRT get your butts in gear already.

 

[09 Venom]

Please explain to us how this post of yours "helps market the Viper". If you are concerned about marketing the new Viper, have you done your part and purchased one?

Notice that the owners of this car aren't complaining about it. Most of us are tired of the complaining about it, in fact. The Viper didn't participate in this magazine test, yet it still gets bashed on by you. It cannot win.

What is to complain about??? Had the car out yesterday, 60 degress and gorgeous in NY, and the car was running flawless roaring around town!! BTW...I still get from gawkers and on-lookers "What car is that?"...I say the new Viper..they still say..." I thought they stopped making them?"!!!!!! still!!!

 

[09 Venom]

I don't think because some of us are not ready to run out and buy a current model of the Gen V, necessarily means that we aren't worried about the survival of the Viper down the road.

Personally I can not get excited about what I see being offered (design). To a point where I will in fact buy something different.



Matt

I am curious as to what car does excite you in this price range?? I was at a local car club meet (with Porsche,amg merc, old vette's and 2 new c7 vettes) and the design/looks of my Gen V blew everyone away! and it wasn't just my consensus.

 

[09 Venom]

commandomatt, my comment shouldn't be read with a negative connotation. Just curious. Because I need to go waayyy up in price to find a car that 'might' excite me as much as the design and drive of my Gen V.

 

[donk_316]

Youre foolin yourself if you think the C7 is a "failure" BUT ive come to the conclusion that the C7 is for the drooling masses. The Viper is for people who are into brute force.

 

[REDBLACK]

It's pretty simple. The original VIPERS RT/10 and GTS blew away everything else on the road. The G5 doesn't. SRT should have stuck with the original success formula and put more money in the motor and less in the "world class interior". If that had been done the "street" would have marketed the VIPER for free and the dealers would have none in the showroom.

 

[former345bhpLS1]

The Gen I and II Vipers did not blow away everything on the road. They were very fast for their day, but stock Vipers had to think twice before messing with Porsche Turbos, Ferrari 550 Maranello's, Diablos (especially the SV), and the C5 Z06 when it premiered. All of those cars posted similar or better 0-60 times and could often hang close through the 1/4 mile (often with lower trap speeds). Back then, it was more about the driver since everything was analog or nearly analog. The driver factor was a huge equalizer. I remember seeing Gen II GTS' running mid-13s at the strip with guys who couldn't drive. I've also seen good drivers run 12.1-12.3 stock.

I any case, if the Gen II GTS had to face the steep competition that the Gen V is facing, it would have had a different reputation. It was the right car at the right time, the Gen V is a better car at a very difficult time. When the new hyper-cars have BHP ratings of 900-950, there is no horsepower figure that will impress the general public. Even with 750 bhp, it would be 200 hp down on LaFerrari and 150 hp down on the P1 (the fact they these cars aren't competing is meaningless). The horsepower war is too hot for an outfit like SRT to win. Then Gen II impressed people with it's power, but more so it's torque. Even in the 90s, it was down on power compared to the Ferrari 550, the Diablo, cottage super cars, etc.

Even against very steep competition, the car still fares very well on road courses and in acceleration against cars of comparable cost (Porsche 911S, Lotus Evora, GTR, BMW M cars). It is not truly competing with the McLaren 12C or 458 anymore than the C7 is competing with a Porsche Turbo.

I think the central problem is that everyone forgot about the car with the lag between the launch and cars hitting the showroom. The car would sell better if people knew it existed.

-Nick

 

[bluestreak]

Youre foolin yourself if you think the C7 is a "failure" BUT ive come to the conclusion that the C7 is for the drooling masses. The Viper is for people who are into brute force.

That is the contradiction that's costing sales. The SRT and GTS were an attempt to make a car designed originally for the ******** fit the masses. It seems they have successfully kind of landed in no man's land, the area in between. Still too ******** for the now much softer, spoiled masses, and not a big enough improvement for some of the ******** previous owners. Now you have new people that aren't biting and returning customers that are sticking with what they got. The worst scenario possible.

It's pretty simple. The original VIPERS RT/10 and GTS blew away everything else on the road. The G5 doesn't. SRT should have stuck with the original success formula and put more money in the motor and less in the "world class interior". If that had been done the "street" would have marketed the VIPER for free and the dealers would have none in the showroom.

I think if the TA were the Viper being presented initially, it would have been received better.

Notice GM's marketing strategy, which has worked. They made almost all of the press vehicles Z51's even though they won't sell all Z51's. SRT should have taken note, even though they did try with the GTS with track pack, it should have been the TA from the get go, it would have been received better as more of an exotic with the bright color, more docile handling (but faster) suspension, even if they put a GTS like interior in it.

Since the TA is not the ACR, they should have come out guns blazing, instead of with their hand behind their back IMO. The way it sits now, SRT may have boosted used ZR1 sales inadvertently. It's cheaper and just as fast.

 

[Jack B]

That is not the point, when someone like SS has nothing but senseless/meaningless viper bashing posts it turns off true viper lovers. For one, I spend less time on this forum. I go to the VOA to make posts with substance because of ignorant jerks like SS. The moderators on this site have to get a set or everyone with meaningful input will be gone.

Guess I will take a hike too, since I have no intentions of ever joining the VCA. The "enthusiast" term is good enough for me. Being on my second viper and looking forward to my third in early 2014, I am an enthusiast only. If you limit opinions/posts to VCA members only, intellectual inbreeding will occur.

 

[09 Venom]

a lot has changed since 1996...heck even Honda's can run high 13's in quarter. due to the laws of physics cars are eventually going to hit a plateau in regards to performance.

It's pretty simple. The original VIPERS RT/10 and GTS blew away everything else on the road. The G5 doesn't. SRT should have stuck with the original success formula and put more money in the motor and less in the "world class interior". If that had been done the "street" would have marketed the VIPER for free and the dealers would have none in the showroom.

 

[09 Venom]

That is the contradiction that's costing sales. The SRT and GTS were an attempt to make a car designed originally for the ******** fit the masses. It seems they have successfully kind of landed in no man's land, the area in between. Still too ******** for the now much softer, spoiled masses, and not a big enough improvement for some of the ******** previous owners. Now you have new people that aren't biting and returning customers that are sticking with what they got. The worst scenario possible.


QUOTE] this makes a lot of sense

 

[ViperSmith]

a lot has changed since 1996...heck even Honda's can run high 13's in quarter. due to the laws of physics cars are eventually going to hit a plateau in regards to performance.

I guess people are just in denial and want to remember the good ole days.

Yes, the Viper was ground breaking in 1992. 100 extra HP than anyone just stomped everything.

But, this is 2013 and we live in the real age of performance cars. It is a high dollar market and companies pour money into it.

700hp+ in the Viper isn't going to mean much when as others have said, there are cars cranking out 900+ out of the factory. Sure, I wouldn't have minded 750hp in the 2013, but jeez, complaining about 640?

More HP isn't a magic bullet. Look at what Porsche and Nissan have done with less. It is the complete package now and for the track, SRT has done a great job. I think we will see a lot more making waves next year as people have the car year round. Many got cars late in the year and driving season was ending for many.

oh well, people will always find something to complain about.

 

[commandomatt]

I am curious as to what car does excite you in this price range?? I was at a local car club meet (with Porsche,amg merc, old vette's and 2 new c7 vettes) and the design/looks of my Gen V blew everyone away! and it wasn't just my consensus.

It doesn't have to be exactly in this price range. I don't I say I am going to spend X $ and then see what is the most bang for the buck. That's not how I decide what's next when it comes to cars

I am drawn to certain designs and unfortunately I really don't care that much for the way the Gen V looks. If I was, I would be all over it. To me personally it looks to dated. When it comes to design....its hard to argue taste. What one likes, may not be cool to someone else.

So what am I considering ? I have decided I am going to look for an ACR. I know choices are limited these days but I am checking it out nevertheless. I actually do not think the ACR is nessecarily better looking than a stock Coupe, but there is something very raw about how the ACR is made and I have a feeling that we wont see anything as unique and off the wall as the 'old' ACR anytime soon. So I will seriously consider one if the right one surfaces. I am not selling my 06.

If I can not find the right ACR, then I will be looking at an R8 5.2

Matt

 

[Coloviper]

Well there is no denying the R8 is not a drop **** car and one I would love to own someday, but it is hardly raw. Matt, you appear torn on what you want as comparing an old Gen IV ACR to an R8 is two ends of the spectrum. Since I think you are referring to the V8, my guess I'd it comes down to cost. For me, the only issue I have with the Gen V is cost. Totally loaded should never have been more than $125k. But I am cheaper these days, I will have a Gen V someday but it will most likely be used.

Have seen a few more new Vettes on the road and they look a little better in person but still not what I personally would want. I can't get past the rear end. Just horrid! Have seen about 10 Gen Vs over past few years between production and mules and they never tire. Just classy!

Funny as yesterday, I saw a new Lexus LFA pull out and WOW is all I can say. I have never seen one live and thought the pictures sucked, but they are a muscular, **** car. The exhaust note was unreal, and more exotic than a Ferrari or Lamborghini, which I never thought was possible. Again, cost is an issue on that for me. Ha! Ha!

 

[commandomatt]

Well there is no denying the R8 is not a drop **** car and one I would love to own someday, but it is hardly raw. Matt, you appear torn on what you want as comparing an old Gen IV ACR to an R8 is two ends of the spectrum. Since I think you are referring to the V8, my guess I'd it comes down to cost. For me, the only issue I have with the Gen V is cost. Totally loaded should never have been more than $125k. But I am cheaper these days, I will have a Gen V someday but it will most likely be used.

Have seen a few more new Vettes on the road and they look a little better in person but still not what I personally would want. I can't get past the rear end. Just horrid! Have seen about 10 Gen Vs over past few years between production and mules and they never tire. Just classy!

Funny as yesterday, I saw a new Lexus LFA pull out and WOW is all I can say. I have never seen one live and thought the pictures sucked, but they are a muscular, **** car. The exhaust note was unreal, and more exotic than a Ferrari or Lamborghini, which I never thought was possible. Again, cost is an issue on that for me. Ha! Ha!

Well, actually not torn at all.

Reason I would like to find an ACR is that I believe its the last true 'raw' production car that we will see. Considering all the limitations put on the manufacturers now and even more so in the future, this will be a milestone car not only in the Viper history but in the automotive history as well. That's why I would like to own one. I am not a track rat and never will be considering where I live (I could build a track on my property but it would be more of a Baja type track...not a very friendly Viper track). So I just want to experience this ACR, if possible.

If I cant find the 'right' ACR then so be it and I would be chasing my next car on the list......

...The R8 5.2 (this is the V10, the 4.2 is the 8). I really like the looks of this car. Especially in the flesh as its far more powerful looking when you are next to it. Maybe somewhat boring to drive, compared to a Viper, due to its exceptional refinement, but this is what Audi wanted to achieve....and they did exactly that. No, these cars are not inexpensive. Figure 140-160 for a low mileage one.

We'll see what happens in the next few days. Maybe an early Christmas if all goes well

Matt

 

[PDCjonny]

The R8's are beautiful cars Matt, and IMO even better looking in the vert version.
I thought long and hard about getting one. Don't see many of them around.

 

[swexlin]

We have an R8 in black that comes to our weekly C&C. It is indeed a stunning car.

 

[commandomatt]

I know this has nothing to do with this thread but have to put it out there to tie in with the last few comments.

Well, today I secured the car that was 1st on my list.

A 2010 ACR. This is what I wanted. The last of the old breed.

I will have it picked up after New Years, so what a great way to start 2014. Even though it will go straight into storage, it will be pretty exiting to know that its sitting there waiting for spring.

I am thrilled about the color combo as well. 1 of 1 (as so many of course were). Toxic Orange / Graphite Stripes

As some of you guys already know, I am one of those low mileage freaks and this one was more than perfect in that regard............14 !!

Yeah....that's a 1 and a 4.

I am however not going to just let it sit. It will get definitely get some miles on it this summer. I will at least double it !! (kidding)

Feels good to have it done.

The R8 will have to wait but they still build those, so I know there will be plenty to choose from down the road when I am ready.

Matt

 

[PDCjonny]

Congrats Matt you have made a wise decision.
The 2010 ACR is the best of the best. Post some pics of that color combo that is truly unique.