Tim
Viper Owner
I have been there and done that and I kind of agree with you on the cam. But you may want to degree the cam in to make sure it is where it is suppose to be and to port the intake.
Tim
Tim
Normally Aspirated power upgrade on a Gen 2 (96)
- Thread starter MADMAX
- Start date
Viper Grenade
Enthusiast
- Joined
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Why nobody has not done a 542ci storker with ported Gen 4 heads (or Stryker race heads), big soild roller cam and about 11 or 11.5:1 cr, is beyond me. Add a dry sump and rev to 7500rpm and you have an easy 700-750rwhp N/A
Tim
Viper Owner
thats a big heavy bottom end to be spinning that fast
Viper Grenade
Enthusiast
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Sal doesn't seem to have issues spinning his to 8000rpm.
Thanks for feedback guys.
JackB – pushrods are on my shopping list and I’m thinkin about hoses. Already gotta oil catch can.
Rockers removed, labelled and bagged for safe keeping.
All of the pictures below are of the drivers’ side head.
You can clearly see the 12 head bolts and the 8 valley bolts in the picture below. I mopped up pockets of trapped oil, particularly around the head bolts, so oil didn’t drip down the threads and onto the head.
And finaly "the point of no return."
Removing the head …..
First removed the 8 valley bolts – 1/8 turn each then all the way.
Then the 12 head bolts – also 1/8 turn each then all the way.
All came out with no problem – very clean.
A little bit of creaking as the gasket relaxed, then water trapped in the head stared dripping out around the bottom joint/interface.
I wasn’t expecting this but not too worried - estimate about a pint of water.
The head separated from the block with a gently heave, leaving the gasket ‘firmly’ fixed to the head.
Next job – clean the block face – non-abrasive cleaning only.
Fortunately the face wasn’t too dirty.
To avoid damaging it I used a plastic scrapper to remove what looked like a black paint/film that sometimes came away easily in flakes and other times remained stubbornly welded in place. This took me all afternoon - my finger were pretty sore.
It cleaned up nicely though.
Also found a pocket of brown sludge trapped in a dead-leg area of the cooling water system. This has been mentioned in previous posts, believed to be leak sealant.....
And finally I fitted the ARP studs.
It felt good to start putting stuff back together at last, having done nothing but strip down so far.
Cleaned the thread holes before installation.
No oil present but the 5 lower holes had water which leaked in during head removal.
My next job is to do all of the above again on the passenger side, assuming my fingers are gonna let me.
JackB – pushrods are on my shopping list and I’m thinkin about hoses. Already gotta oil catch can.
Rockers removed, labelled and bagged for safe keeping.
All of the pictures below are of the drivers’ side head.
You can clearly see the 12 head bolts and the 8 valley bolts in the picture below. I mopped up pockets of trapped oil, particularly around the head bolts, so oil didn’t drip down the threads and onto the head.
You must be registered for see images attach
And finaly "the point of no return."
Removing the head …..
First removed the 8 valley bolts – 1/8 turn each then all the way.
Then the 12 head bolts – also 1/8 turn each then all the way.
All came out with no problem – very clean.
You must be registered for see images attach
A little bit of creaking as the gasket relaxed, then water trapped in the head stared dripping out around the bottom joint/interface.
You must be registered for see images attach
I wasn’t expecting this but not too worried - estimate about a pint of water.
The head separated from the block with a gently heave, leaving the gasket ‘firmly’ fixed to the head.
You must be registered for see images attach
You must be registered for see images attach
Next job – clean the block face – non-abrasive cleaning only.
Fortunately the face wasn’t too dirty.
To avoid damaging it I used a plastic scrapper to remove what looked like a black paint/film that sometimes came away easily in flakes and other times remained stubbornly welded in place. This took me all afternoon - my finger were pretty sore.
It cleaned up nicely though.
You must be registered for see images attach
Also found a pocket of brown sludge trapped in a dead-leg area of the cooling water system. This has been mentioned in previous posts, believed to be leak sealant.....
You must be registered for see images attach
You must be registered for see images attach
And finally I fitted the ARP studs.
It felt good to start putting stuff back together at last, having done nothing but strip down so far.
You must be registered for see images attach
Cleaned the thread holes before installation.
No oil present but the 5 lower holes had water which leaked in during head removal.
My next job is to do all of the above again on the passenger side, assuming my fingers are gonna let me.
RevHeat
Viper Owner
This thread to me is what Facebook is to most.. always waiting for the next update
Fatboy 18
Enthusiast
Im Looking at one of your Engine mounts! It appears one of your bolts is loose? Any reason?
maybe to manuever the block to make it easier to get the headers or another part off easier???
Your forum name sums up your thoughts quite accurately.
MoparBoyy
Enthusiast
pretty sure he said he was changing the mounts out also.
As this is my 100dth post, I'd better make it count - 100 in 4-years isn't bad... is it???
"You're right MoparBoyy, I did say I was changing out the engine mounts."
Well spotted Fatty.
Note to self:- Save knuckle skin by fitting engine mounts while zorst headers are removed.
This thread to me is what Facebook is to most.. always waiting for the next update
Chris,
I'll take that as a compliment .... I think ....
Unlike facebook though I'll try not to bore you with what I had for lunch or that I am now taking the dog for a walk.
Nop ... could have done everything so far without removing the engine mounts.
Except replacing the engine mounts, of coure ......
You must be registered for see images attach
"Is that good enough for post # 100???"
Last edited:
VIPER BAZ UK
Enthusiast
Looking good..............
Woodhouse mounts.....
The sludge is where the Gen 1 cross over goes??????
Woodhouse mounts.....
The sludge is where the Gen 1 cross over goes??????
blackandblue01
Viper Owner
Thanks for all the pics and updates. I am getting the itch to take mine apart now.
You will need to determine the proper pushrod size with the skimmed heads. The production pushrods will most likely be too long.
Hope this helps.
Hope this helps.
Hi Dan,
Oh yes, definitely helps, many thanks.
And thanks to everyone else for posting coments too.
Pushrods are on my long list of things-to-do.
Received a pushrod length checker from CompCams today so I’m all set when I need to do that job.
Will be looking for advice on this subject so please keep me posted with support - always appreciated.
Anyway, I’m handing some of the head work over to the fabrication workshop for my new Gen3 heads to get some of the welders attention.
Using one of the old Gen2 heads as a template, I need to have 3 mounts welded onto one head for the power steering pulley bracket and a cooling water connections for the thermostat.
The other head also needs a water take-off for the cabin heater matrix.
This should be bread-and-butter stuff for an established race-tec organisation so to reduce the risk of failure I’m gonna back off and let the experts take over – I know my limits.
These photos should explain a bit better.
This is the Gen3, without mounts.
You must be registered for see images attach
This is the Gen2, with mounts.
You must be registered for see images attach
Looks fairly simple, doesn’t it -
Something else puzzled me over the weekend - when I test fitted the drivers side Gen3 head to the block one of the ARP studs was sitting proud by about 10mm.
This photo shows the front drivers side head.
The head is seated properly on the block and just nipped down.
You must be registered for see images attach
As you can see the top stud sits proud compared to the other 2 studs in this photo.
In fact, this stud is proud compared to ALL 23 of the other studs.
My thought is this stud hole isn’t quite as deep as the others.
Otherwise it just ain’t screwed in far enough.
Not had a chance to investigate further yet so unless anyone has an opinion .....
Last edited:
VIPER BAZ UK
Enthusiast
Take two studs out and makke sure they are the same length... also measure depth of holes with weelding wiire or somthing.... You knew that though.......
Fatboy 18
Enthusiast
Thump it down with a big Hammer to fit 
Or just saw the top off with a Hacksaw
JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!
Hope those heads are not off a Yellow car
Or just saw the top off with a Hacksaw
JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!
Hope those heads are not off a Yellow car
VIPER BAZ UK
Enthusiast
Funny that mark as i do have a spare set of stock Gen2 heads of a yellow viper........Had to make room for my cauldwell heads......
Fatboy 18
Enthusiast
Im looking forward to seeing the completed head VIPER BAZ UK
Enthusiast
Your looking forward to getting what?????????????????
I can't believe i just found this thread for the first time. Its been some good reading and almost makes me want to tare into mine. You must be pretty confident in your self to tackle this job in your garage. And good for you. Keep up the good work and keep posting so i can keep reading.
MTGTS
Enthusiast
Is there really a need for ARP studs when staying NA??? I'm about to got through the same thing build a new higher comp. NA motor and don't plan on doing the ARP kit.
jp
Enthusiast
The ARP's are a good upgrade if you are raising the compression. Check the torque, it is much more than the stock head bolts. On the stock heads bolts, if they are not damaged, streached or corroided they can be reused once.
This is my experience with studs, so you can take or leave it. At a given torque the studs will always pull much harder on the block. 120 ft/lbs of torque on a set of studs does not yield the same pull on the block as 120 ft/lbs with studs. I personally would NEVER EVER swap out a set of bolts for studs without boring and honing the block with torque plates. I'd also make sure that your not over toqueing the block with the use of studs.
I'm not against studs, as I noticed that the stock bolts do a number on the aluminum threads in the block. Having said that, I would not make the swap unless I was performing the oulined procedure. My first set of studs in a non Viper block ended up costing me a new block. Too much pull ended up cracking the entire deck on a small block Chevy. It's great to swap out parts, but unless your an engineer with thousands of hours of testing, your probably going to shorten your engine life.
I'm not against studs, as I noticed that the stock bolts do a number on the aluminum threads in the block. Having said that, I would not make the swap unless I was performing the oulined procedure. My first set of studs in a non Viper block ended up costing me a new block. Too much pull ended up cracking the entire deck on a small block Chevy. It's great to swap out parts, but unless your an engineer with thousands of hours of testing, your probably going to shorten your engine life.
Ratical2
Enthusiast
This thread is very informative. It also piqued my curiosity about fasteners. I found this article after a quick search.
Head Bolts vs. Head Studs
When evaluating the various benefits of studs and bolts, it is helpful to keep a number of considerations in mind. Ease of engine assembly and disassembly can be a significant factor, as well as torque pressure, gasket alignment, and overall engine performance. The power and acceleration potential of an engine often dictates the type of head fastener that will be used. For example, a high-end or racing model car will have drastically different engine fastener requirements than a vehicle designed for everyday purposes.
Head Fastener Design
Comparatively speaking, head bolt design tends to focus on stability and convenience. Engine head bolts can be cold-fabricated to increase their integrity, and are often thermally treated before they are machined or have threads cut into them. They provide relatively high strength and durability, and frequently come packaged with hardened washers or nuts. Some manufacturers produce head bolts with wide flange dimensions, which reduce the need for removing the bolts or the valvetrain when conducting cylinder maintenance.
Like bolts, head studs are also thermally treated at high pressure to improve structural strength. Studs are carefully shaped to make them concentric, usually requiring a series of cuts to produce a straight, balanced component. They can be roll threaded before or after heat treatment, although post-heating roll threads provide higher mechanical strength and stress tolerance in the final product. Some head studs are designed with gasket and cylinder alignment in mind, and they are typically more expensive than the equivalent head bolt models.
Torque Efficiency
During engine assembly or maintenance, a bolt must be installed by torqueing it into place. Due to the head bolt’s design, it has to be rotated into its slot in order to engage the threads and secure it into place. This process creates both twisting force and a vertical clamping force, which means that when the cylinders within the engine’s combustion chamber begin accumulating load, the bolt will both stretch and twist. Because the bolt has to react to two different forces simultaneously, its capacity to secure the head is slightly reduced and it forms a less reliable seal in high-powered engines.
By contrast, a head stud can be tightened into place without any direct clamping force applied through the tightening. A stud can be threaded into a slot up to “finger tightness,” or the degree to which it would be tightened by hand. Afterward, the cylinder head is installed and a nut is torqued into place against the stud. The nut torque provides the clamping force, rather than the torque of the fastener itself, and the rotational force is avoided entirely. Because the stud is torqued from a relaxed state, the pressure from the nut will make it stretch only along the vertical axis without a concurrent twisting load. The result is a more evenly distributed and accurate torque load compared to that of the head bolt. This ultimately translates into higher reliability and a lower chance of head gasket failure.
Engine Assembly
One of the main differences between head bolts and head studs involves the methods used to put together or repair an engine. Higher-end head studs that have been specially designed within exact tolerances are capable of securely positioning the head gasket and cylinders with near-perfect alignment. This feature makes it easier to assemble an engine using head studs. However, head bolts are far more convenient for disassembling an automobile engine or for performing maintenance, such as part replacement. Many everyday-use vehicles have master cylinders or other components that extend into the engine compartment. Under these specifications, head bolts allow the cylinders to be removed without removing the entire engine from the car, as is necessary with head studs.
In other words, head studs are better suited for high-performance vehicles with greater power requirements, while head bolts are more practical for personal, everyday automobiles. Therefore, it would be inaccurate to conclude that one type of fastener is categorically superior to the other. Rather, the preference depends on the automobile in question and the ways in which it will be put to use.
For racing enthusiasts, www.CircleTrack.com can provide more information on high-end engine fasteners.
http://www.thomasnet.com/articles/hardware/head-stud-bolts
Head Bolts vs. Head Studs
You must be registered for see images
Choosing whether to use head bolts or head studs in an automobile engine can be an important decision that affects the way a car runs. While they are both fasteners and ostensibly serve a similar function, there are a handful of differences that make studs and bolts distinct from one another. For one, bolts are usually partially or fully threaded, while studs are typically threaded on both ends and often have an unthreaded middle section of the shaft. In addition, studs do not have a head, whereas bolts always do.When evaluating the various benefits of studs and bolts, it is helpful to keep a number of considerations in mind. Ease of engine assembly and disassembly can be a significant factor, as well as torque pressure, gasket alignment, and overall engine performance. The power and acceleration potential of an engine often dictates the type of head fastener that will be used. For example, a high-end or racing model car will have drastically different engine fastener requirements than a vehicle designed for everyday purposes.
Head Fastener Design
Comparatively speaking, head bolt design tends to focus on stability and convenience. Engine head bolts can be cold-fabricated to increase their integrity, and are often thermally treated before they are machined or have threads cut into them. They provide relatively high strength and durability, and frequently come packaged with hardened washers or nuts. Some manufacturers produce head bolts with wide flange dimensions, which reduce the need for removing the bolts or the valvetrain when conducting cylinder maintenance.
Like bolts, head studs are also thermally treated at high pressure to improve structural strength. Studs are carefully shaped to make them concentric, usually requiring a series of cuts to produce a straight, balanced component. They can be roll threaded before or after heat treatment, although post-heating roll threads provide higher mechanical strength and stress tolerance in the final product. Some head studs are designed with gasket and cylinder alignment in mind, and they are typically more expensive than the equivalent head bolt models.
Torque Efficiency
During engine assembly or maintenance, a bolt must be installed by torqueing it into place. Due to the head bolt’s design, it has to be rotated into its slot in order to engage the threads and secure it into place. This process creates both twisting force and a vertical clamping force, which means that when the cylinders within the engine’s combustion chamber begin accumulating load, the bolt will both stretch and twist. Because the bolt has to react to two different forces simultaneously, its capacity to secure the head is slightly reduced and it forms a less reliable seal in high-powered engines.
By contrast, a head stud can be tightened into place without any direct clamping force applied through the tightening. A stud can be threaded into a slot up to “finger tightness,” or the degree to which it would be tightened by hand. Afterward, the cylinder head is installed and a nut is torqued into place against the stud. The nut torque provides the clamping force, rather than the torque of the fastener itself, and the rotational force is avoided entirely. Because the stud is torqued from a relaxed state, the pressure from the nut will make it stretch only along the vertical axis without a concurrent twisting load. The result is a more evenly distributed and accurate torque load compared to that of the head bolt. This ultimately translates into higher reliability and a lower chance of head gasket failure.
Engine Assembly
One of the main differences between head bolts and head studs involves the methods used to put together or repair an engine. Higher-end head studs that have been specially designed within exact tolerances are capable of securely positioning the head gasket and cylinders with near-perfect alignment. This feature makes it easier to assemble an engine using head studs. However, head bolts are far more convenient for disassembling an automobile engine or for performing maintenance, such as part replacement. Many everyday-use vehicles have master cylinders or other components that extend into the engine compartment. Under these specifications, head bolts allow the cylinders to be removed without removing the entire engine from the car, as is necessary with head studs.
In other words, head studs are better suited for high-performance vehicles with greater power requirements, while head bolts are more practical for personal, everyday automobiles. Therefore, it would be inaccurate to conclude that one type of fastener is categorically superior to the other. Rather, the preference depends on the automobile in question and the ways in which it will be put to use.
For racing enthusiasts, www.CircleTrack.com can provide more information on high-end engine fasteners.
http://www.thomasnet.com/articles/hardware/head-stud-bolts
cfiiman
Viper Owner
Man I love this thread. I have a question, looking at the picture when you removed the head from the block, what about the "sleeve creep" I have read about??? I know you are suppose to put some angle iron or a dog bone thing to keep the sleeves in place, just wondering if you did that. And one other question I have always had is what happens if they did creep a little before you got to restraining them? Isn't there some way to "push" them back into place? I'd love an experienced person to explain this to me as I have always wanted to know but haven't found the answer.
