NOS Octane Booster Question?

[Bandit400]

From what I have read it seems the NOS Octane booster is the one to use. Now there are three levels, the racing level gives 4-7 points and off-road 3-5 points. Also the Racing level contains some nitromethane. Not sure what Nitromethane would do to your engine. Which one to use? Also, were can you buy it cheap? Thanks.

Bandit400

 

[Snake Bitten]

Bandit,

Don't waste your money on ANYONE's octane booster...The primary ingredient in octane boosters is TOLUENE, which has an octane rating 114...You can buy this for around $2.50 a gallon at any Fleet Farm or Tractor Supply...What octane rating are you shooting for? Do the math...

Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...........94.2 Octane
20%...........96.4 Octane
30%...........98.6 Octane

Xylene is also a cost effective solution, often mixed with Toluene and sold a "racing fuel"....Xylene has an octane rating of 117. Mix with 92 octane for the following ratings

10%...........94.5 Octane
20%...........97.0 Octane
30%...........99.5 Octane

Hope this helps...there is NO LEAD in the above hydrocarbons...and remember that an octane rating is simply a fuels ability to "resist detonation"...careful not to go too high, you'll lose power, too low = detonation...How big a shot are you running???



Working in a chemical plant has it's advantages...They've got 20,000 tanks just full of this stuff!

 

[Torquemonster]

Cool information. But in case you don't have easy access to those chemicals (and 30% is several gallons of the stuff) - I've found the NOS booster to work great on turbo cars running 22lb boost on pump gas.

I used the race booster and never experienced any problems or knock.

Excessive use of nitro requires richening the mixture - but a bottle of booster will not have enough to require that. I found the need to pop into the local speed shop or auto parts shop for a bottle no big deal - It was less hassle than having to go out to the airport and get avgas. I just carried a bottle with me for whenever I planned to dial the boost over 1 bar.

 

[BigCarrot]

You can get the stuff at paint stores. It's pretty readily available. But.... once you go through the hassle of getting it, and mixing it, you'd almost wish you'd just bought a $5 bottle of octane booster. lol

 

[Bandit400]

I will be installing Roe SC in September and want a little extra insurance to prevent any detonation. So these chemicals are what is in the NOS Octane Booster? As for purchasing TOLUENE and XYLENE, I thought you could not get this stuff anymore due to the environmental and carcinogen concerns. Additionally, these chemicals are very volitile. I would not want to store two much in my garage as exposure to heat source could cause some interesting side effects especially if the container holding it is not completely sealed air tight. The NOS booster is a small container and they claim a few point octane gain up to 16 gallons of gas. Sounds a little hard to belive that 16 ounces can make much of a difference.

torquemonster, I called the guys at Holly/NOS and they said the racing formula has only two percent Nitro. Probably not enought to cause a concern.

Thanks for the good info.

Bandit400

 

[Snake Bitten]

The Kenne bell website indicates the NOS racing version will give you a little over two points in the real world.

This is absolutely correct...but guess what two points means...This:

92.0 Octane will get "boosted" to 92.2 Octane...Believe it...If you run 93 octane, you need five bottles to get up to 94 octane...I have worked in refineries and chemical plants for over 12 years...Don't be afraid of the hydrocarbon...the hydrocarbon is your friend...Educate yourself, and make an informed decision...

Does NOS or NX have some <font color="blue">magic fru fru dust</font> that only they put in an Octane booster??? Nope, it's all the same, basically...

These chemicals are no more dangerous than the gasoline in your gas tank, and they sell these at any farm store...they come in the proper containers...and I only buy what I need for one tank...

Example: I am going to fill up for the weekend, I need 15 gallons of 92, and three gallons of Toluene (roughly, these don't have to be exact)...I am now sporting 96 octane...and I spent about $33...

But don't take my word for it...Look into this a little more...knowledge is power...HP!

 

[Torquemonster]

So you are saying that no octane booster is concentrated enough to make much measurable difference at one bottle per tank?

sheeesh - I hate it I've been duped all these years - but what about the magazine articles that have run tests? Can't think of any - but recall seeing some in the past.

Ok - Touline or Xylene - are either harsh on the engine valvetrain for long term use in such concentrations (30%)?

There was nothing wrong with a bit of lead anyway - no study successfully linked lead in petrol to lead in people that I'm aware of.

 

[Snake Bitten]

I hate it I've been duped all these years -

Believe it...

Ok - Touline or Xylene - are either harsh on the engine valvetrain for long term use in such concentrations (30%)?

None...although I cannot phathom you needing 100 Octane on a Viper, even with a power adders like N20 or a huffer...

There was nothing wrong with a bit of lead anyway - no study successfully linked lead in petrol to lead in people that I'm aware of.

Lead will foul your cats (if you have not removed them) and more importantly, your O2 sensors...not cool

 

[Torquemonster]

Thanks for that.... I'll file that info for when I need it.

 

[TOOOFST]

Well said G,
Made the MISTAKE of trying with nitrous+.
Be a genius listen to Snake Bitten.

 

[1TONY1]

Kenne-Bell recommends ONLY the NOS octane booster on their web site. Figure out which grade of the three you need and how many and I will price it for you. Six to a case. According to KB if they say 2 points it means 2.0 not .2 like others.

 

[Snake Bitten]

Kenne-Bell recommends ONLY the NOS octane booster on their web site. Figure out which grade of the three you need and how many and I will price it for you. Six to a case. According to KB if they say 2 points it means 2.0 not .2 like others.

Allow me plug Toluene one more time...Toluene is a pure hydrocarbon, seven part carbon, eight part hydrogen, which means it contains only hydrogen and carbon atoms. Complete combustion of toluene yields CO2 and H2O. This is perfect as, as it will not affect our O2 sensors. There are no metallic compounds, like lead or magnesium.

Toluene also has a sensitivity rating of 14. This smokes aftermarket octane boosters, which have sensitivities in the 20-30 range. The more sensitive a fuel is, the more its performance degrades under load. Toluene's low sensitivity means that it is an excellent fuel for a engine under heavy load...

Toluene is denser that the AM octane booster, which means more power generated. Most octane boosters like ethanol or nitro methanol, contain less energy per unit volume compared to regular ole gasoline. I need my octane booster to not only resist detonation, but also help out in the power department...I am a bang for the buck kind of guy...The only down side I have found with Toluene is that due to it's carbon content, you get alot more soot on the rear bumper cover...

The NOS octane booster is hydrotreated Aliphatics, which is basically a solvent, a mineral spirit...and MMT (Methylcyclopentadienyl Manganese Tricarbonyl)... don't get any of this stuff on ya...the MMT is the actual octane booster...While MMT is a very good octane booster, there is no way in hell 12 ounces of the stuff in 18 or 19 gallons is going to raise the octane rating 7 "actual" points...Money says NOS's best "racing" additive won't even raise the octane rating by 2 "actual" points...Not to mention that "manganese" is rather controversial in relation to emmissions and health effects (but what won't kill ya?)...But here's the kicker, MMT was actually banned in the US until 1995...I am not positive, but I would think that "manganese" will eventually coat our O2 sensors, it's a metal, just like lead is...

My only point is that for $10.99, I can be running two - three gallons of Toluene, getting a real deal octane rating of 95 - 96, and a warm fuzzy, because that is plenty of protection against detonation for any of us...Well, 99% of us!

That said, if I were to use the NOS booster, I'd use their race formula, with 93 octane pump gas...and most likely I'd throw in two bottles per tank...and I'd use it only in a pinch, if I were bone dry of Toluene...



I apologize for being so anal, but my RT is a 2000, so I have the hypercrackme pistons...which is why I am so anal...

 

[CitySnake]

OK Gerald...errr...Mr. Wizard...
What makes this stuff work?
Notice NO Toulene. ***? And it's spozed to "treat" 16 gallons with 16 oz.? I know it works but have no idea how much the actual rise in octane is. Can you shed some light O' master of toxins?

Performance Guaranteed -
104+ Octane Boost has set the standard for octane products for 20 years


104+ OCTANE BOOST®
Restores horsepower for more power and a smoother running engine.
Eliminates hesitation and stalling and smoothes rough idle.
Improves the performance of any fuel -- even super unleaded and reformulated gas blended with methanol and ethanol.
Stops engine knocks, pings, run-on and overheating caused by low octane fuel.
Cleans fuel injectors, carburetors, intake manifolds and fuel lines.
Safe for fuel cells, liners, gaskets, o-rings, catalytic converters and oxygen sensors.
Does not contain lead, alcohol, aniline, toluene or MTBE.
Treats 16 gallons.
#10406
(16 oz./473 mL)

 

[Bandit400]

Seems like Snake Bitten knows what he is talking about Did a little searching on the net and it seems like using Xylene/tolulene for octane boost is quite common. The only caveot was not to use more than a thirty percent concentration or spill it on your paint. Chemistry is not my strong suit as I have not tried to balance an equation in over 10 years. So I will rely on the expertise of others in this area. Now the Electrical Engineering questions are more up my alley

I will be taking a trip to my local hardware or autobody supply shop to give this a try. Thanks for the info.

Bandit400

 

[Snake Bitten]

City...Quit buying your octane booster at convenient stores...That is the only place I recall ever seeing it...

I am kidding, seriously, I am not familiar with the 104+ brand name...dunno who makes it or what's in it...But there are tons of chemicals that will work to prevent detonation...could be benzene, xylene, triptane, MMT, peric acid, acetone...Who knows...But your system is designed to work on 93 octane, yes? So it wouldn't take much to achieve this, as long as you're not filling up with freakin 87...You're not are you???

I personally try not to use anything on my RT that I don't know what it is or how it works...but I am ******** like that...Now I could buy some and run it through our lab...if that weren't illegal...


Anyone injecting water??? Water is free...sort of...

 

[CitySnake]

City...Quit buying your octane booster at convenient stores...That is the only place I recall ever seeing it...

I am kidding, seriously, I am not familiar with the 104+ brand name...dunno who makes it or what's in it...But there are tons of chemicals that will work to prevent detonation...could be benzene, xylene, triptane, MMT, peric acid, acetone...Who knows...But your system is designed to work on 93 octane, yes? So it wouldn't take much to achieve this, as long as you're not filling up with freakin 87...You're not are you???

I personally try not to use anything on my RT that I don't know what it is or how it works...but I am ******** like that...Now I could buy some and run it through our lab...if that weren't illegal...

Anyone injecting water??? Water is free...sort of...

Surprised you haven't heard of it. In the NE this is the stuff everyone uses. It's made by Gold Eagle. Here's the website, but there's no real product info: http://www.goldeagle.com/104plus/index.htm
It does work! And yeah, I run 93 octane sometimes and Sunoco 94 octane most the time.

 

[Snake Bitten]

City...Sun Oil's 94 Octane is money!!!

 

[1TONY1]

I personally try not to use anything on my RT that I don't know what it is or how it works...but I am ******** like that...Now I could buy some and run it through our lab...if that weren't illegal...

Have you ever tested NOS or 104 in the lab ? Can you have a real octane test done ?

 

[Snake Bitten]

Tony...I have never done octane tests on them...and I work in a chemical plant now (3M)...I can get the physical make up done, no problem...That would tell us what they are using chemically, but we already know what is in the NOS brand...It would be interesting to see what 104 is using...Our lab doesn't have a way to test the octane rating, that is pretty specific to refineries, they use ASTM standards...I still have alot of friends in refineries, so I can defintitely get it done...just might take me a week or so...

What I would recommend we do is this:

1. Use the quantity of gasoline NOS and 104 recommends to blend with...16 gallons for 104 and 15 gallons for NOS...Is that right for NOS?

2. Test the octane rating of our base gasoline...both MON and RON ratings (R+M/2 = actual octane rating)...Just because they say it's 93 don't mean it is...It's usually a bit higher...I know...It still surprises me...

3. Then blend the additives, and test the octane rating...I'll even do a 15% straight Toluene blend too...my personal favorite...

This will give us the best results...I can get the NOS stuff at my local speed shop...City, do I just go to KMart for the 104??? I'll have to find one of those...(I kill myself!!!)

I am sure I can get one of the inspectors at Marathon Ashland Petroleum right up the road from 3M to perform the tests...I did a project there four years ago, and still know alot of people there...I wonder if they'd let me run the higher results through my RT (ie...free gas!)

 

[Snake Bitten]

*DELETED*

Free post!

 

[1TONY1]

NOS bottle says "treats up to 16 gallons" When I was running it...pre vec2....I would mix with 8-10 gallons. I have the off-road formula in stock. If you can get the testing done I will supply the NOS booster. I could send you a new bottle or do whatever mix we wanted to test and send you the booster/gas mix....whatever. Maybe a few will step up and supply the other two boosters.

I didn't realize gas might be higher octane....I figured it would be lower if anything. After all, the glass is half empty isn't it

 

[Torquemonster]

Anyone injecting water??? Water is free...sort of...

Hey that got my attention!

Actually at least one Viper tuner has tried it. They were running too low a boost to see a great gain - to be expected as the main benefits are when you are pushing the envelope past what pump gas can do.

water injection is like a lot of unpopular "tricks" that do work (like A/R headers etc) - they involve an element of customising, effort and patience to get the best results until you have done enough to be an expert. With the majority of customers wanting bolt on answers - few tuners are willing to take the time and effort to take the learning curve required to get the best of it. Having had the privilege of working with an engine tuner who did - you know what I think about it - it's awesome when it is properly setup.

My turbo car would have blown up instantly at WOT if it ever ran out of water and the knock sensor failed.... both unlikely events.... but another added thing to think about (adding water when adding gas).

In a Viper - water and NOS would be interesting - quite feasible I'd think. Wonder if ERL in the UK have a precedent to share? With boost - as most operate low boost - limited application unless compression is kept up - HEAPS of potential untapped then! The placement of the injection, equalisation of distribution/cylinder and quality of atomisation are more important than the amount of water used. In fact the ERL system uses so little due to extreme pressure pump to achieve fine mist that hydraulicing and rust etc are problems of the past.

Some place the water near the air intake - so far away from the port all they achieve is humid air - but it still works for some - I like it as close to port as possible - port injection would the ultimate - but no one has done it to my knowlege... yet.

I've spoken with ERL before - no one really knows the limits - they spoke of 20lb boost on pump gas at 9:1 with full power timing as being achievable (remember tho that the UK probably has access to higher octane unleaded). Over here we can get 98 at some stations - but 96 is normal top grade. But the 98 here is the highest rating the bottom one is 89 so that means it is an octane average (RON/MON) of 93.5. I get the 2 mixed up - I just know that 98 is really 93.5 average.

How do your gas ratings work? Is 93 an average or a top reading?

I've also heard water injection can be used to get good mileage gains too by leaning the mix at cruise and using the atomised water to control EGT etc. I've not tried that myself but have heard it can provide worthwhile gains for no power loss (soon as throttle moves a certain amount - ECU richens back up instantly). It would allow the old lean burn concept Chrylser tried years ago with greater potential gains.

any thoughts?

 

[Snake Bitten]

Tony...I can do whatever blend we want...But it would be best to follow the manufacturers recommendations, for testing...We can do the math from there to see what are optimum blends for our own specific applications...

I can get the NOS stuff no problem...It's cheap enough..If anyone wants another booster tested, it should be no biggie...and if there are several versions, we'll test the most potent advertised...

So far we'll do:

NOS
104+
Toluene

Amsoil has a booster, any others???

 

[1TONY1]

p.s. NOS booster is made by Permatex. I didn't realize that.

 

[SGViperGTS]

http://www.idavette.net/hib/fuel/

Scroll down and read the section "Octane boosters–do they work?" for some independent tests that have been conducted in the past.

Ben.

 

[CitySnake]

City, do I just go to KMart for the 104??? I'll have to find one of those...(I kill myself!!!)

Kmart?! &lt;scoundrel&gt;
Here http://store.yahoo.com/rodi/ch10406.html
this is actually a pretty impressive test! You may be able to sell the results to R &amp; T.