Not Many Members?????

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Magnus_

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I always thought members paying to be part of this club was backwards. On other forums its the sponsors that pay to cover the costs of the club.

The only reason I was a member here was so I could post in the IL forum. My own club barely posts in the IL forum though so there's no need for me to renew my membership.

Even that seems pretty backwards. This is also the only forum I have ever been on where I'd have to actually pay to post with other locals in my region. :(

This is definitely one area where the corvette guys have it far better than we do.
 

shooter_t1

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I respectfully disagree.

Since you have to own a Viper to join, most can't. I used this site when I was looking for a Viper, and bought a great one from the classified. I contacted another member who had inspected it to be sure. As soon as I owned it I joined. I was looking at other oddball cars, but this site helped me to a Viper, even before I could be a member. We need to keep that up.

I agree there can be sections that are members only, and some events that are too. I hope casual local events will still allow non members to come. Once they meet (some of :)) the people, they probably will join. There is, and should be a bond between Viper owners. Some will never be joiners, or like structure.(Dave666 are you there?) We still want them part of the most things, or at least I do.

I've kept up my membership in the Shelby club, even after I sold the car. I like the attitude of their slogan: "Ownership isn't necessary, but enthusiasm is."

Actually, I think we are saying the same thing, you just said it better and with more clarity.:) I also joined as an "Enthusiast", read alot, and asked questions. Bought my 1st Viper, then immediately signed up as a paid member. I believe some sections of the site should have access limited to actual VCA members. VCA member being defined as someone who owns a Viper and is current on membership dues.
 

FLATOUT

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I always thought members paying to be part of this club was backwards. On other forums its the sponsors that pay to cover the costs of the club.

The only reason I was a member here was so I could post in the IL forum. My own club barely posts in the IL forum though so there's no need for me to renew my membership.

Even that seems pretty backwards. This is also the only forum I have ever been on where I'd have to actually pay to post with other locals in my region. :(

This is definitely one area where the corvette guys have it far better than we do.


You are absolutely right. When it comes to forums this one is distinctly diffrent from any other vehicles forum.
 

kcobean

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What are the benefits again???

There is a thread in the new owner section that lays out all of the benefits of membership, but I know you aren't asking because you don't know the answer. You made all kinds of fuss last year about renewing because you can't come to local events, so you only wanted to pay for "national benefits". We offered to refund your regional dues just to keep you as a VCA member and then you joined anyway without accepting our offer. So what exactly is the point you are trying to make by posting this question in this thread? If you are unhappy with your membership, just let me know and I will refund your money out of my pocket and adjust your privileges here accordingly. We bent over backwards to make you happy and apparently you still aren't, so here is your chance to opt out on my dime.
 

Lee00blacksilverGTS

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I always thought members paying to be part of this club was backwards. On other forums its the sponsors that pay to cover the costs of the club.

The only reason I was a member here was so I could post in the IL forum. My own club barely posts in the IL forum though so there's no need for me to renew my membership.

Even that seems pretty backwards. This is also the only forum I have ever been on where I'd have to actually pay to post with other locals in my region. :(

This is definitely one area where the corvette guys have it far better than we do.


Actually the Regional Forums being limited to VCA members came about as a result of requests from many Regional Presidents who were frustrated to have planned for months for an event and then have an enthusiast Supra owning individual jump in a few days before the event and siphon of 10 members to the local ricer dyno meet or whatever.
But it also sounds like you have it backwards, you joined VCA so you could post with your Region? How about so you could PARTICIPATE with your region? Surely you just don't attend events without paying dues? I really did not get the logic there.:confused:
 

mattdillon

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Actually, I think we are saying the same thing, you just said it better and with more clarity.:) I also joined as an "Enthusiast", read alot, and asked questions. Bought my 1st Viper, then immediately signed up as a paid member. I believe some sections of the site should have access limited to actual VCA members. VCA member being defined as someone who owns a Viper and is current on membership dues.

Not sure if this applies here, but IMO vendors that do alot of business with members on here or any other club should be required to be a member or if they really done alot of business (sponsors). Don't know if I worded it right, but am I wrong on this.
 

Lee00blacksilverGTS

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Not sure if this applies here, but IMO vendors that do alot of business with members on here or any other club should be required to be a member or if they really done alot of business (sponsors). Don't know if I worded it right, but am I wrong on this.

Well you're right in that they have to be a paid site supporter to participate on the site but they can't really be a VCA member unless they own a Viper. Interestingly some of the bigger and most productive vendors ARE long time Viper owners and VCA Members. JonB, Bill Pemberton Chuck Tator, Dan Cragin, Mark Jorgensen come quickly to mind.
 

Magnus_

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Actually the Regional Forums being limited to VCA members came about as a result of requests from many Regional Presidents who were frustrated to have planned for months for an event and then have an enthusiast Supra owning individual jump in a few days before the event and siphon of 10 members to the local ricer dyno meet or whatever.

I can't believe this reason holds any truth. To believe that we're locked out of speaking with our local clubs so that we may be held in the dark about other events that we may have more interest in is rather upsetting to say the least.

But it also sounds like you have it backwards, you joined VCA so you could post with your Region? How about so you could PARTICIPATE with your region? Surely you just don't attend events without paying dues? I really did not get the logic there.:confused:

I'd have no problem paying dues to my region to support events. That's how every other club I partake in works.
 

CitySnake

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Back when club suggestions were publicly debated, and lived or died on their merits

There is a great deal going on in this thread, much of it sadly, is muted. Taken by itself, Jon's words above are extraordinarily profound.

What I WILL mention is that it is rather unfortunate that some in this thread are able to disparage members (and/or those member's actions) without fear of censorship or repercussions, while some remain silent for fear of same.

All in all, regardless if for reasons that appear sound to some, our forum is no longer car enthusiast based, but rather a commercial forum that benefits many members; some far more than others.

No doubt such may please some and upset others. Sadly and not atypically, most either remain blissfully unaware or (perhaps rightfully) don't give a rat's ****.
 
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VIPER BAZ UK

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Bloody hell!!!!!

This must be the longest thread i have ever started.....
I just wondered what was going on and where the good ole locals had gone like Juli-Mike,Skeeter,Timbo,even Chuck T... Very very quite,,,, And like the title said not as many members....

Met some great friends/ people on here inc you Scotty......
 
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VIPER BAZ UK

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I AM A MEMBER TO RECEIVE VIPER MAGAZINE AND NOTHING ELSE, there i said it and its basically true





Double quote in case you change your mind LOL........
Pretty much the same as me Phill to be honest as the UK regoin just tend to organise and do things of our own backs..... If i was in the USA now that would be a different story..... VOI is to rich for me although i would like to do one BUT its a two week family vacation for the same price if not cheaper.....
I will stay a member bacause i use the vendors and the VCA sites and info....
 
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JonB

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I think it's a move in the right direction. The "Membership has it's benefits" statement has been thrown around alot and it's time for the club to actually follow that. All these people that don't pay and don't actually own a Viper, but have the same site access as paid members defeats the purpose and IMO lowers the value of the club.


I agree that it lowers the value of the SITE..... "hits" or "views" from non-owners dont really matter to a "Viper" sponsor at all. Let em READ..... but dont let em post for free.

I always thought members paying to be part of this club was backwards. On other forums its the sponsors that pay to cover the costs of the club.

This is definitely one area where the corvette guys have it far better than we do.

I have been HAMMERED by those who say the heavily sponsored, sponsor-dependent Vette sites are invasive with sponsors. I dunno....I only come here! I liked when sponsors were important, even vital....like from 1997-2007 or so....

Censorship here split the user group, and the Alley was formed... that did NOT hurt this site as many feared it would. The Cream Rises....

Trivia Fact: When this site was created by a vote of the VCA Regional Prezes, it was conditioned on being "Self Sustaining" from ad revenues. "OK Jay and Doug, go ahead with your new-fangled web thingeee....., but don't come looking for funds from the regions or National. It has to break-even on its own." The vote passed. It was NOT unanimous!

The Car and Driver, and Road and Track message boards were prior, and were simultaneously de-commissioned {more like abandoned} as our "official" sites.
Dodge actually had an 'unofficial' presence there and here, provided a lot of facts, and corrected mis-information as it was noted, all via spokespersons with the VCA prez-corps!
Now, via Grailkeeper and SRT Sessions. Official! What A Company.....

The first paid sponsor here was a travel agent, who had also arranged Oreca-Leman's trips.... There was also a jeweler and other busineses who became sponsors. As many NON-Viper vendors were hoped for as Viper vendors! {Non Viper vendors would want views and hits from everyone.}

Things Evolve........better for some, worse for others..... Its still a nice site, content-rich.

[B said:
CitySnake[/b];2960355]There is a great deal going on in this thread, .......
What I WILL mention is that it is rather unfortunate that some in this thread are able to disparage members (and/or those member's actions) without fear of censorship or repercussions, while some remain silent for fear of same......... Sadly and not atypically, most either remain blissfully unaware or (perhaps rightfully) don't give a rat's ****..

AMEN, Bruddah...... Now eat your porridge.
 
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jdeft1

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There is a thread in the new owner section that lays out all of the benefits of membership, but I know you aren't asking because you don't know the answer. You made all kinds of fuss last year about renewing because you can't come to local events, so you only wanted to pay for "national benefits". We offered to refund your regional dues just to keep you as a VCA member and then you joined anyway without accepting our offer. So what exactly is the point you are trying to make by posting this question in this thread? If you are unhappy with your membership, just let me know and I will refund your money out of my pocket and adjust your privileges here accordingly. We bent over backwards to make you happy and apparently you still aren't, so here is your chance to opt out on my dime.


Really?? sorta feels more like being tossed out to me. By the way, I appreciate all the horrible arm twisting you guys must have pulled on my behalf. I had no idea my suggestion of creating an associate membership option equaled me "making all kinds of fuss". Sorry about that... Had I known how sour you felt about me, I would not have rejoined. Feel free to refund my membership fee as you suggest. It's apparent to me that the most fun aspect of the club, the social aspect is tainted between us and I'm sorry for that too because we've never even met.
 

plumcrazy

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the NY/CT has always encouraged non members to show up at events and runs. i always assumed all the vca regions were the same way
 

fqberful

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There is a great deal going on in this thread, much of it sadly, is muted. Taken by itself, Jon's words above are extraordinarily profound.

What I WILL mention is that it is rather unfortunate that some in this thread are able to disparage members (and/or those member's actions) without fear of censorship or repercussions, while some remain silent for fear of same.

All in all, regardless if for reasons that appear sound to some, our forum is no longer car enthusiast based, but rather a commercial forum that benefits many members; some far more than others.

No doubt such may please some and upset others. Sadly and not atypically, most either remain blissfully unaware or (perhaps rightfully) don't give a rat's ****.

+1 d00d! Eloquently stated.
 

FLATOUT

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Really?? sorta feels more like being tossed out to me. By the way, I appreciate all the horrible arm twisting you guys must have pulled on my behalf. I had no idea my suggestion of creating an associate membership option equaled me "making all kinds of fuss". Sorry about that... Had I known how sour you felt about me, I would not have rejoined. Feel free to refund my membership fee as you suggest. It's apparent to me that the most fun aspect of the club, the social aspect is tainted between us and I'm sorry for that too because we've never even met.

Imagine that lol.
 

Y2K5SRT

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What I WILL mention is that it is rather unfortunate that some in this thread are able to disparage members (and/or those member's actions) without fear of censorship or repercussions, while some remain silent for fear of same.
Didn't really see anything that stood out, and it seems that if anybody questioned another they were answered accordingly.

All in all, regardless if for reasons that appear sound to some, our forum is no longer car enthusiast based, but rather a commercial forum that benefits many members; some far more than others.
Curious statement, as the club has worked pretty hard to make the forums less "commercial" and more social. It was one of the reasons that decisions were made to move vendor price quotes to PM's vs. general posts, eliminate ongoing "ads" by replying with phone numbers and websites, etc. The club got complaints about the forums being too commercial and those changes were made - back in 2009. Certainly you can't be referring to the VCA trying to shore up the treasury with factory/Mopar parts - Viper Parts of America has posted all of 104 times total in some 15 months on the forums. Some vendors post that much in a week, but maybe that is what you meant.

The club forums are certainly a visible part of the club and its benefits, and the club seeks to continue to improve them. Likewise with other national benefits like the magazine, raffles, and insurance. Where the "rubber meets the road" is with your local clubs and the activities they should be creating. There is a distinctive problem with some "outlaying" areas being neglected - not by intention, but by being focused elsewhere. We are seeing more activity in those areas (Sacramento, Omaha, San Antonio, Quad Cities, etc.) and hopefully the regions can help fund more events away from the "core" locations in a region. To do that those regions need money and the national club is doing what it can to help make that happen.

Of course the club is what you make of it. Want an event in your area? Join your regional club and ask for some help putting it together. Most will not only help you organize it, but also help fund it or show you how to fund it without coming out of your own pocket. Want better content in VIPER magazine? Submit some. The club wants the magazine to be the best it can be and to feature members like you. But it can't do it by hoping you will walk in front of a nearby camera or have a story write itself.

Support your national club so it can support you. We have had some great raffles and another one ends in just a few short days. We have plenty of folks that bought or continue to buy tickets - thanks! Yet where regional presidents and even vendors would work hard to promote those raffles in the past, today it seems only a handful of people make those same encouragements. If you want an even better club and more benefits, you need to help the club raise funds in ways that you feel comfortable doing. The opportunity to win a brand new Final Edition Viper Roadster seems like a nice way to support the club and possibly make the score of a lifetime - one you will be telling the grand kids about 30 years from now.

The bottom line is that there is always room for improvement in the club and in these very forums - as soon as you set the bar for "perfect" the bar changes. So if you revel in your role as an armchair quarterback, imagine how much fun it could be to actually take the field. The Viper Club of America can be what you make of it, but it's hard to make much of it without actually stepping up and offering.
 

lh4x4

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I sent my VIN a long time ago but I think I always have been listed as enthusiast. Doesn't matter. Everytime this past winter that I looked in the garage, there it was.:)

Now if warm dry weather would just show up, I can see if it still runs.:dunno:
 

plumcrazy

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owning a viper doesnt do anything for you on this site anymore. there is only enthusiast and VCA MEMBERS

you sir, fall in the enthusiast category unless you JOIN up.
 

gofastr

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I always thought members paying to be part of this club was backwards. On other forums its the sponsors that pay to cover the costs of the club.

The only reason I was a member here was so I could post in the IL forum. My own club barely posts in the IL forum though so there's no need for me to renew my membership.

Even that seems pretty backwards. This is also the only forum I have ever been on where I'd have to actually pay to post with other locals in my region. :(

This is definitely one area where the corvette guys have it far better than we do.
I agree with you.
 

dave6666

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It has little to do with free food, nor is it simply a "gathering of owners" - which can indeed be done for free. What it has to do with is pooling resources to come up with things that interest everybody - good magazines (with more technical articles for those inclined), outstanding raffles, "free" liability insurance at social events, easier access to the manufacturer, and discounts from a lot of sponsors and vendors that you wouldn't get otherwise.

I sill don't get it. But in the same hand am not trying to be disrespectful to those that do want it the way you state it. I work on my car, build things for it, mod it, blah blah and have never found that I had to pay for any resource.

Nearly all of my technical challenges have been answered by vendors like Parts Rack, DC Performance, Viper Specialty, the late Big Brake Dave, Tator's Dodge and so on. These relationships with vendors and their technical knowledge that ensued have been established by my business transactions that resulted from the modding and so on. Some might say that's paying for advise. Of which I would reply that is as stupid as stupid gets. Jon, Dan, Dan, Chuck are all awesome knowledge resources and the only club you have to be a member of to get that knowledge is the club that you pay for your parts with a good check. Didn't I see it mentioned here about the value of vendors?

Vendor discounts? LMAO my local dealer gives me 20% off list just like the official site sponsors do.

The magazine? Never liked the TV show Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous either. Most of mine are still in the plastic.

Raffles? Out of room to park things at casa Dave, and with only 1 winner there are tons of losers. Don't like losing either... :cool:

Regarding club events, DFW is a big area, and most events are 60 miles (or more) away across a nasty stretch of inner city traffic jams. Sign me up!!!

So the quandary now is that I bought my Viper to have the car I always wanted, to enjoy working on it, and to enjoy driving it. So how do you merge what you said, with what I said, with me owning that car I always wanted? Maybe the bottom line is that it's not for everyone, paying for what I can do for nothing. Or the status of an avatar pic or a Venom logo.

How about a $50 annual donation that helps support the forum maintenance but offers no other perks? And you get a title of Forum Supporter or something? I think that's where I fit, and where others might fit too.


Agreed that this is definitely not the time or place for it, but note that the "bitter departure" was completely one-sided: You were asked to stay, including personal phone calls from the then-national president. The club bends over backwards to placate 99.99% of the members, no matter how they treat the club in return.

Gonna call you out here Chris, but I'll keep it clean and professional.

I asked for a refund of my dues after the "event." There was no immediate reply to that request. You said you called. Who did you speak to?

Three months later out of the blue I get an email from you asking how I want my refund.

Wow, you completely missed asking what was going on with Dave, like maybe in those 3 months I had gotten over it. I did not care about canceling my membership any more. But you had a check ready to endorse or a click on PayPal an instant away. I read that into your email and let you have your way with me. Don't claim to have begged me to stay.

Yes I still have that email and the reason my PM box is full is it's the archive of all my conversations with the VCA. Those are private conversations not to be shared but I do have my story straight with the data to back it.

:tx: :tx: :tx:
 

Bill Pemberton Woodhouse

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Dave6666 ,

The number , obviously quite Devilish, and with and extra 6 it must mean you are Satanic time six -- wicked, man!

The simple question, so many of us don't really understand, is why do you even bother being one of the biggest posters on this Forum for the Viper Club of America if everything is just not to your taste? The Forum was designed for Club Members, it is the single biggest benefit of being a member , and if you use nothing else, you avail yourself to the max with all your posting.

Kind of like entitlement in this Country , which most of us are fed up with, you want all the privileges and use , but don't want to contribute. I think it is about time you look in the mirror and realize the Club gives alot to you and your derive alot from us , since you spend an inordinate amount of time here.

Having been a member of numerous Clubs ( SCCA, Miata Club, Cobra Owners, Pontiac Club ) over the years, I have never known one to do as much for it's members , or had such a tremendous relationship with the manufacturer. In the perfect World we would be all to everyone, but the reality is this Club does more for a small , scattered , diverse group , than any Club that benefits from a large ownership/involvement base.
Small, close knit , and value if you look for it, or if you truly get involved!

Nuff said.
 
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eucharistos

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hey bill, dave can (& likely will) defend himself, but i must inquire: are you familiar with dave's posts while he was a member :dunno:

he (and ted) and others who are now but mere enthusiasts define viper ownership. as has been said, it's not just the track rats (i wish i was one btw, so no hating here) that are real viperers

your last post kinda stinks of elitism
 

LifeIsGood

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...your last post kinda stinks of elitism

I have to agree. I was going to reply immediately to Bill's post, but Dave likes to fight his own battles.

It seems to me that the viper owner community is a very small group (compared to other car clubs), there will be a number of owners that have their little quirks, I know I have plenty (just ask my wife). I've learned to accept people and their differences, as long as their not malicious.
 

Bill Pemberton Woodhouse

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Nothing even remotely elistist about it, just find life ironic that those who complain the most usually are not involved. Dave is highly involved by contributing to the Forum, but instead of being a positive influence, he seems to spend an ridiculous amount of time griping about the Club. Then he moseys over to the Alley and gripes some more . Life is short , so if you don't like something why bother to constantly post threads when things seem so bad in your mind.

He has the capacity, with all his energy posting, to be a strong influence, yet his drive seems to be spent primarily in a negative manner. I remember he once complained about having to drive 100 miles to an event --- geez , we all do, there simply aren't enough of us. Most of the events in the Country are cars shows, social , and informal get togethers, but without this Club , it's founders, it's vendors, it's members, this small group of rabid owners would not have a place, a forum , to get together. That is the importance of membership and supporting something that we all benefit from -- if nothing else the simple camraderie here and the efforts so many put forth to make this a place to gather.
 

Vipuronr

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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, oh, is it my turn yet? Tough at my age to keep focused! :rolaugh:

I, for one, have found the VCA and the people I've met since being in the club to be both enjoyable and helpful. You can't like everyone and everyone isn't going to like you, but compared to other clubs I've been in (Jag, Porsche, Vette), I enjoy the Viper group the most.

:D
 

eucharistos

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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, oh, is it my turn yet? Tough at my age to keep focused! :rolaugh:

I, for one, have found the VCA and the people ..... to be both enjoyable and helpful. You can't like everyone and everyone isn't going to like you, ......, I enjoy the Viper group the most.

:D

true 'dat Vipuronr, my thoughts too

most of my cyber buds are on this site :hug:
 

JonB

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the NY/CT has always encouraged non members to show up at events and runs. i always assumed all the vca regions were the same way

ASSumed..........

For 2 years a while back, the Oregon Club only allowed OREGON MEMBERS to attend OR VCA events ! National asked them to ask a reasonable FEE, but it never happened. Thankfully, past 2-3 administrations dropped that regime 'policy'
 
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