O2 sensors moved to merge collector, preheat codes back

[dave6666]

On advice of my soon to be SCT flash tuner - Dan at Viper Specialty - I moved my O2 sensors from the single down tube on my Belangers, to the merge collector. I had previously solved a preheat code while still on the single down tube by drilling the sensors out. Now the codes are back again.

Guess I need some of them quick fires huh?

Anyway, feel free to admire my wiring job. A week of evenings basically. It looked like the only way to ensure routing away from the hot items was down the center frame rails. I drilled the large hole for the grommet - big enough to pass wire connector through - and then covered it all in plastic loom and then heat shield. Soldered and heat shrink on the wire joints of course.

I read in some posts that people were able to make the wires stretch and reach. Umm. OK.

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[Steve 00RT/10]

Very nice job Dave. You are a craftsman with this stuff.

The OEM sensor / **** from the factory points straight up into the aluminum cover plate. My Belangers came with a **** in that same place. It was no problem routing the O2 cable to the connector. Have never had a heat issue

The quick fires will cure the light. The merge collector is the place to be. The single tube Belanger solution was basically a band aid fix to stop the heater code lights. They gave little thought to the PCM trying to do it's job.

Steve

 

[ViperTony]

Dave, looking good there. That's where I welded in my bungs as well. DC Performance sells the quick fires ($99 each I think) and they cured the light. No issues after 8K miles. They also come with extended wires although probably not as long as your routing there. I think if you tell them the length you're looking for they'll accomodate it.

 

[Catwood]

AT the OEM harness connector point measure the resistance between the two white wires on the O2 side. If either is open change that O2. report back values of each as I'm curious.

Cat

 

[Steve 00RT/10]

AT the OEM harness connector point measure the resistance between the two white wires on the O2 side. If either is open change that O2. report back values of each as I'm curious.

Cat

Wouldn't that require buying a new one to experiment with?

Almost all, if not all, 00-02 cars will set a heater code light with Belanger headers and the O2 **** in the factory location. It was an issue right from the opening bell with 2000 model year cars. Whatever company Dan Cragin hooked up with for the Quick Fires was a good find.

Steve

 

[plumcrazy]

thats where mine are as well. nice work as usual dave. way to go

 

[Catwood]

Wouldn't that require buying a new one to experiment with?

Almost all, if not all, 00-02 cars will set a heater code light with Belanger headers and the O2 **** in the factory location. It was an issue right from the opening bell with 2000 model year cars. Whatever company Dan Cragin hooked up with for the Quick Fires was a good find.

Steve

no, just unplug the wire at the harness and measure at the connector.

 

[Catwood]

I think there are other issues to consider.

I suspect the wiring on the O2 is more fragile than expected. The potential to damage one of the wires on the passenger side install or removal in the single tube is high due to closeness to the block. I think, but not confirmed that the damaged causes a failure over time, not at the onset.

I believe, based on research, the added length to the O2 harness can cause issues with the heater circuit since it changes the resistance and the timing of the feedback loop for the heater.

I suspect the OBD in 2000 is more sensitive than other years for some reason.

 

[Steve 00RT/10]

no, just unplug the wire at the harness and measure at the connector.

I meant the: If either is open change that O2 part you proposed for the test procedure.

I think there are other issues to consider.

I suspect the wiring on the O2 is more fragile than expected. The potential to damage one of the wires on the passenger side install or removal in the single tube is high due to closeness to the block. I think, but not confirmed that the damaged causes a failure over time, not at the onset.

I believe, based on research, the added length to the O2 harness can cause issues with the heater circuit since it changes the resistance and the timing of the feedback loop for the heater.

I suspect the OBD in 2000 is more sensitive than other years for some reason.

I go back to the beginning with this problem. In 2001, I tried just about everything. From new O2s, to drilling, to relocating the **** when the band aid 'patch' came out. I have also heard of problems with adding harness. I don't know the resistance parameters the circuit works with, but some have increased the harness length and had no problems. I do know the QFs solve the problem

The 2000-2002 PCM definitely triggers the light. ...just like it triggers phantom misfire codes with a Roe blower. I don't think it has much to do with wiring degradation. I only had 7,000 miles on the car when I put the headers on. I am only referencing Belanger headers. The others may not set a light.

Steve

 

[plumcrazy]

i know id solder the connections

 

[dave6666]

i know id solder the connections

Soldered and then heat shrink with the adhesive melt lining.

I'm ex USMC avionics with what was at the time NASA certified wiring training.

Got it covered!

 

[Catwood]

I meant the: If either is open change that O2 part you proposed for the test procedure.

Steve

If it's open it's dead...

 

[Catwood]

. I don't think it has much to do with wiring degradation. I only had 7,000 miles on the car when I put the headers on. I am only referencing Belanger headers. .

Steve

I think there is potential to hurt the O2 sensor wires due to being close to the head. It's real easy to bind up the wires putting them in or pulling them out. That could induce a failure to occur over time or right away depending on the level of damage.

I have belanger headers also on a 2000.

 

[Catwood]

Soldered and then heat shrink with the adhesive melt lining.

I'm ex USMC avionics with what was at the time NASA certified wiring training.

Got it covered!

Type of conductor is important as resistance over distance can be changed and that may (big may) have an effect. These are small signal circuits, not like in a cell phone but small never the less.

 

[Steve 00RT/10]

If it's open it's dead...

I guess what I'm saying is that it would likely be a waste of time and money to put a new stock sensor back on regardless of good readings......may as well go with the QFs and be done with it....instead of spending money twice.

Steve

 

[ViperTony]

I guess what I'm saying is that it would likely be a waste of time and money to put a new stock sensor back on regardless of good readings......may as well go with the QFs and be done with it....instead of spending money twice.

Steve

Its a waste of time. The OEM sensors don't solve this problem. I tried. Same issue happened with my old Borla headers as they relocated the O2 to the collector. Quick Fires are the answer. That's why Dan at DC Performance sells many of them.

 

[VIPER BAZ UK]

I had the same problem as tony above with the same headers..
Put in a Roe PCM and never had that light again.....

 

[ViperTony]

Baz...how's the build coming along?

 

[vprtech]

I think there are other issues to consider.

I suspect the wiring on the O2 is more fragile than expected. The potential to damage one of the wires on the passenger side install or removal in the single tube is high due to closeness to the block. I think, but not confirmed that the damaged causes a failure over time, not at the onset.

I believe, based on research, the added length to the O2 harness can cause issues with the heater circuit since it changes the resistance and the timing of the feedback loop for the heater.

I suspect the OBD in 2000 is more sensitive than other years for some reason.

The 2000 model year Viper does seem to have a very sensitve O2 heater OBD2 monitor. The "Quick Fire" O2 sensors do correct this problem in many cases, however, the OBD2 monitor can be altered to prevent the O2 heater code from setting as well. We have done this for some problem vehicles.

- Chris

DC Performance: Proven Performance

 

[dave6666]

BTW, since this thread is now alive again, I did end up installing the QFires from DC. No more codes since then.

Also, Dan said no problem with the chassis side wire modifications that I did. As long as you don't screw with the sensor wire, which I knew not to, you're OK.