Oil for Engine Break-In

[Stray Cat]

First Post - I searched everywhere in this board for the answer to this question and could find very little.

Traded in a 2001 RT/10 for an SRT-10. Visited a frind of mine who told me I should drain the Mobil One and put in 10W30 weight Motor Oil for the first 1000 miles or so to seat the Rings. Says they are seeing an increase of 30 HP after the 1000-1500 mile Break in because the rings are properly seated.

Did not do this with the 2001. Advice ? Is this true ? If so why would the folks at DC put in Mobil 1 ?

 

[Kai SRT10]

Many engine builders have this opinion.

If it were my car, I would follow your friend's advice and put regular oil in for the first 500 miles, change it at 500, put in more regular oil, and then put in synthetic at 1000.

 

[Scott_in_FL]

Synthetic oil coats the cylinders as soon as it goes in and the engine is started. It cannot be undone. Synth is so slick (too slick for break-in, so I too wish we could get the motors with regular oil and then work into synth around 3,000 miles or so) that you cannot remove its coating properties without somehow chemically washing it or honing it again. It is unfortunate that the factory fill is synth, but they have their reasons for doing this.

The best way to break it in with the synth is to create the engine pressure necessary to press the rings against the cylinder liners so that they seat nice and tight. And you know what that means.... you got to run it like hell during the first 1k miles. Hey, at least its fun.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

I call [******]. There is no frictional, load carrying, or other characteristic of synthetic base oil vs. mineral base oil to justify this. This folklore probably started because early synthetics had more additives (because they were premium oils and also because additives at the time were less expensive than the base oil itself) and the friction modifiers and anti-wear characteristics were different. Also, a synthetic formulation has different viscosity characteristics that an engine builder might not have been expecting.

OEMs send new engines to customers filled with synthetic oil. Having worked for Cosworth, I know their multi-million dollar F1 effort, where every last goofy and clever idea is used, regardless of cost, uses highly friction modified synthetic oil from startup. They don't even have a mineral oil in the facility.

How would you know what the top ring surface roughness or tension is, what the cylinder wall hone finish is, what the cam lobe pressures are, what the metallurgy is, and all those other factors in how to break in an engine? It would be really really kind of lucky to have all that fall in place and any old 10W30 is just right for break in?

And lastly, if an OEM thought they could gain 30 hp by some break-in procedure, they'd be all over it to build an engine in a manner that achieves the same thing. To give you an idea of what it means to them, 30 hp is twice the engine power needed to drive 55 mph. It's ten times the amount of power to drive cold engine, transmission, and gear oil. It's 6% of the power output - don't you think Dodge would rather claim 535 hp instead of 505? Maybe they'll read this and "discover" it so they can improve their engines...

 

[Racer Robbie]

Tom,

You are totally correct. I have been preaching to the choir about this for years.

Robbie

 

[Stray Cat]

That was my thinking - $90,000 car and the builder puts the wrong (at least not the most efficient) motor oil in it from the start ? It was hard for me to imagine. I was told by another VCA member that a gentleman by the name of Tom Hayden knows Oils extremely well and recomends Diesal oil. So far, I am sticking with what the Factory put in and breaking it in the way they say. I have been accelerating faster than normal, staying below 4000 RPM though, and driving it the way a Viper should be driven without thrashing it while it's new. So far I am inclined to keep the Mobile One in it till 500 Miles, then change it out and begin pushing her a little harder.

New car, new engine, it feels slower than my 2001 RT/10, especially in first. Second seems to pull strong. Once the engine breaks in I will hit it hard and see... can't wait. I am loving the SRT-10.

Thanks for the advice,

John

 

[ViperJoe]

HOT DAMN! Tom throws the bull schit flag!

Gotta love those goof ball friends that think they know some chit......kind of like the know it all brother-in-laws.

Just like urban myths........WHO starts this CRAP!

 

[twinturbo3150]

call mythbusters!!!!!!

 

[Racer Robbie]

"I was told by another VCA member that a gentleman by the name of Tom Hayden knows Oils extremely well and recomends Diesal oil."

You have to be kidding! Where do these guys come from? Next they will tell you to use ATF or Dextron.

 

[Stray Cat]

Well,

That one came from a gentleman who has been in the VCA for 9+ years so that is why I asked. All this seems like witchcraft but had to ask if I am hearing from what would seem to be credible sources. Mobil one is still in the car.

Thanks,

John

 

[GR8_ASP]

Robbie, you may have stepped on it this time. I may not always agree with Tom but I respect and listen to his opinion. In this case he is quite right. Most of the info on engine break-in is based on old style honing and rings and old lubricants. It is 2006. Most if not all engines are plateau honed, meaning they are essentially broken in as received, rings have substantially less ring tension and seal much better initially than the old cast or chromium rings. I have heard the claims of higher hp from break-in, there is even a website that tries to back-up the claims. But what they miss is modern day machining, which the oems all use.

 

[Racer Robbie]

I totally respect everyones penion here and I agree with Tom's post about using synthetic oil from startup. I was refering to Straycats post. Did Tomm really say to use diesel oil in a gasoline engine? But I have to ask why you would want to put diesel oil in a gasoline engine? I do not run gasoline engine oil in my diesel boat. As I see it each has it's place for what it was designed for. And GR8, like I said about Tom's erlier post and now yours: "You are totally correct. I have been preaching to the choir about this for years."

 

[GR8_ASP]

Yes, Tom does advocate using diesel oil. Due to the higher additive content. I personally do not as I also prefer an additive pack tuned to the rigors of gasoline engines. Plus that the gasoline engines have been fully tested with the gasoline intended oils and proven to be acceptable.

 

[Viper X]

Stray Cat

For most of us, the factory fill is best. I changed mine at 1000 and now at every 2500 with filter. It has worked well for 30,000 miles.

For some of us that turbo or super charge our cars or run very ******* hot summers days, I'd suggest a viscosity change to 15W50 Mobil 1.

I also run a 2 quart oil cooler and a 3 quart Accusump. These engines are expensive and oil is cheap.

Good luck,

Dan

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Don't misunderstand me - the factory fill oil (original spec when vehicle was purchased new) is fine. My comments are meant for the way oils are changing even though the consumer may not understand it.

The rigors of gasoline engines are (according to the API service performance tests) less than that of diesels, since diesel oils include top-line gasoline service performance, but never the other way around. Also, diesel additive packages are 2X that of gasoline oils. When the engines in your Vipers were designed, the oil was at a higher anti-wear level, which is being decreased due to OEM issues with catalyst life in current model vehicles. Diesel oils still have the level of anti-wear the engines were designed for. If you look at Mobil oil credentials:

Mobil Clean 5000
API SM/SL/CF/CD
Mobil 1
API SM/SL/CF/CD
Mobil Delvac 1300 (mineral)
API CI-4 PLUS/CI-4/CH-4/CG-4/CF-4/CF/CD/SL/SJ
Mobil Delvac 1
API CI-4 PLUS/CI-4/CH-4/CG-4/CF-4/CF/CD/SL/SJ

In the past, all the gasoline tests were part of the diesel category, so the gasoline claims were a "gimme." With a diesel program costing north of $800,000 there are always complaints (and quality of testing concerns) and the Sequence IIIG was not included for CI-4. So this time around, diesels won't have an automatic SM claim. It looks like it will come back in the next diesel category, CJ-4.