OK, I am ready....

[daveg]

I am looking at buying a 96/97 GTS and have some purchasing questions.
First off I am not new to Car’s, I have a 69 Corvette convertible, 1966 Mustang Convertible and a 97 3000GT. I have always loved muscle cars so it would seem natural to buy a Viper.
I have always been a Vette head and no one can convince me the 60’s Vette’ are nothing but awesome to look at and drive and the newer ones you get allot for your money.
Enough said…
First, I have read many post because I want to know what I am in for.
I have not seen any threads (may have missed them, apologize) on things to look out for when buying.
What are the things that go wrong (weak links) / things to look out for. How reliable are they. This is going to be a DD, so I will only put 1000 – 2000 miles on a year.
I suspect they are an open road car so I am assuming they ride / get hot like my 69 Vette
Any info would be greatly appreciated and thanks in advance.
-=daveg=-

 

[99 R/T 10]

Get Maurice Liangs book. Everything you want to know is in there.

Amazon.com: Viper Buyers Guide (Buyer's Guide) (Buyer's Guide): Maurice Liang: Books

 

[daveg]

Thanks for info 99 R/T 10, I will order later today but I would also like personal experiences.

 

[costanZo]

The two most important things are to check for over spray and if you get the chance look under the car to make sure the frame is straight and doesn't look bent.

Other things to look for would be sagging of the doors- when you have them open see if they open out straight since this can be a common thing to happen when the car ages; however I have a 96 GTS and my doors DO NOT sag...

Also the trunk, the stock shock/springs aren't that great since it makes the hatch feel heavier and harder to open and that too can sag. You should replace this with an aftermarket shock which can be bought off eBay for $43 here:
Dodge Viper Rear Hatch/Trunk Glass Struts Shocks 97-02 That's where I bought mine. It is also a misprint since I have a 96 and was told those work on the 96 GTS as well even tho it says 97-02..

Also look at the side sills and see if they look corroded. Over time because of the exhaust running under them it can actually melt the paint since they can get very hot. Not a huge problem, but its common. Buying Hi-Flow Cats can help prevent this more, I actually just bought Random Tech Hi-Flow Cats from JonB to go along with my new Corsa Exhaust I bought. So give JonB a call when you get your Viper, unless the new Viper you get already has them.

Also on the doors that rubber molding/weather strip area where the windows come out is called a "belt molding". That can bend/warp over time and is common on the 96. I have a 96GTS and mine are slightly warped, but not enough to cause major concern to me yet. However in the future I will be having them replaced so make sure to look at that when buying as well.

Another thing to check is an oblivious one.. Look over the tires- if they are old or look like they barely have any tread buy new ones. Tires are EVERYTHING on the viper.. not only will the car have less traction and control but it's just way more dangerous to drive the car on bad tires. Luckily for me the guy I bought my Viper from won brand new Tires at a VCA Event back in 2006 and only put 500 miles on them! So they are still like brand new considering I just got my car exactly a month ago from today!(April 8th)

Lastly a very important thing is to make sure you check the carfax obviously. Get the overall history on the car and especially check to see if the Recalls were fixed. I believe on the 96 GTS there were a total of 3 Recalls and on the 97 there were 3 or 4 recalls(I forget). Anyways, before I bought mine, my car already had all 3 recalls fixed so this is something you definitely want to look into, but I wouldn't not buy the car just because they haven't been fixed yet. The Recalls can be fixed easily, it's just nice to have them already fixed before you get the car of course haha.

I will try and think of more stuff, but at the moment this is what popped in my head.. Most of the knowledge I have was learned from people on this forum and it all started with Chuck Tator so give him a call... they don't call him the Viper Wizard for nothing! When it comes to the Viper, he knows all........

I'm sure other people will chime in on this, especially if I made any mistakes in what I said.. but either way..

Goodluck!

 

[mad0953]

Look at the front calipers. They have "Viper" printed on them in white. If they are yellow it indicates the car has been tracked and the high brake temps. during a track event has made the writing turn yellow. Not that tracking is bad but it may give you a little more leverage as far as price. In fact many track cars are more sorted out than a garage queen....just less expensive.

 

[daveg]

The two most important things are to check for over spray and if you get the chance look under the car to make sure the frame is straight and doesn't look bent.

Other things to look for would be sagging of the doors- when you have them open see if they open out straight since this can be a common thing to happen when the car ages; however I have a 96 GTS and my doors DO NOT sag...

Also the trunk, the stock shock/springs aren't that great since it makes the hatch feel heavier and harder to open and that too can sag. You should replace this with an aftermarket shock which can be bought off eBay for $43 here:
Dodge Viper Rear Hatch/Trunk Glass Struts Shocks 97-02 That's where I bought mine. It is also a misprint since I have a 96 and was told those work on the 96 GTS as well even tho it says 97-02..

Also look at the side sills and see if they look corroded. Over time because of the exhaust running under them it can actually melt the paint since they can get very hot. Not a huge problem, but its common. Buying Hi-Flow Cats can help prevent this more, I actually just bought Random Tech Hi-Flow Cats from JonB to go along with my new Corsa Exhaust I bought. So give JonB a call when you get your Viper, unless the new Viper you get already has them.

Also on the doors that rubber molding/weather strip area where the windows come out is called a "belt molding". That can bend/warp over time and is common on the 96. I have a 96GTS and mine are slightly warped, but not enough to cause major concern to me yet. However in the future I will be having them replaced so make sure to look at that when buying as well.

Another thing to check is an oblivious one.. Look over the tires- if they are old or look like they barely have any tread buy new ones. Tires are EVERYTHING on the viper.. not only will the car have less traction and control but it's just way more dangerous to drive the car on bad tires. Luckily for me the guy I bought my Viper from won brand new Tires at a VCA Event back in 2006 and only put 500 miles on them! So they are still like brand new considering I just got my car exactly a month ago from today!(April 8th)

Lastly a very important thing is to make sure you check the carfax obviously. Get the overall history on the car and especially check to see if the Recalls were fixed. I believe on the 96 GTS there were a total of 3 Recalls and on the 97 there were 3 or 4 recalls(I forget). Anyways, before I bought mine, my car already had all 3 recalls fixed so this is something you definitely want to look into, but I wouldn't not buy the car just because they haven't been fixed yet. The Recalls can be fixed easily, it's just nice to have them already fixed before you get the car of course haha.

I will try and think of more stuff, but at the moment this is what popped in my head.. Most of the knowledge I have was learned from people on this forum and it all started with Chuck Tator so give him a call... they don't call him the Viper Wizard for nothing! When it comes to the Viper, he knows all........

I'm sure other people will chime in on this, especially if I made any mistakes in what I said.. but either way..

Goodluck!

WOW costanZo, I appreciate the time you took for the response. I will keep all that in mind.
Also, has anyone owned both an RT 10 and a GTS? What car did you personally like better and why? My Vette is already a convertible and that is why I am thinking GTS. Plus I would think the GTS would be more ridged and comfortable to drive than the RT 10.
Any comparisons about that? I don’t want to get into an RT 10 vs GTS war, just the pros and cons of them.
Thanks to all…..
daveg

 

[costanZo]

WOW costanZo, I appreciate the time you took for the response. I will keep all that in mind.
Also, has anyone owned both an RT 10 and a GTS? What car did you personally like better and why? My Vette is already a convertible and that is why I am thinking GTS. Plus I would think the GTS would be more ridged and comfortable to drive than the RT 10.
Any comparisons about that? I don’t want to get into an RT 10 vs GTS war, just the pros and cons of them.
Thanks to all…..
daveg

This can be a touchy subject just like the whole "color topic" considering some believe Viper prices depend on miles and color of the car. Anyways, I'm not getting into that..but it all depends on what you think LOOKS better. In all honesty both are amazing and beautiful cars but I would choose the GTS over the RT/10 in a second.. and I already did

Also.. not to start any wars here but the GTS is more valuable and more in demand then the RT/10 so consider that if you ever plan on selling the car in the future.... Please no one FLAME ME! haha.. but if this weren't true you would find as many GTS's for sale under 40k as you do the RT/10...

Not that it matters but if you are an audiophile like myself, you really can't put subs in the trunk of a RT/10.. however subs in the GTS sound great

 

[daveg]

This can be a touchy subject just like the whole "color topic" considering some believe Viper prices depend on miles and color of the car. Anyways, I'm not getting into that..but it all depends on what you think LOOKS better. In all honesty both are amazing and beautiful cars but I would choose the GTS over the RT/10 in a second.. and I already did

Also.. not to start any wars here but the GTS is more valuable and more in demand then the RT/10 so consider that if you ever plan on selling the car in the future.... Please no one FLAME ME! haha.. but if this weren't true you would find as many GTS's for sale under 40k as you do the RT/10...

Not that it matters but if you are an audiophile like myself, you really can't put subs in the trunk of a RT/10.. however subs in the GTS sound great

I know what you mean costanZo. I have been watching Vipers for a while now as far as price.
I personally like the 96/96 B/W. BUT I understand convertibles…. On a late hot summer night, I LOVE to drive my Vette. Life doesn’t get any better than a convertible on a late hot summer night.
But my personal opinion is the GTS looks AWSOME (I like Vanilla ice cream, my wife likes chocolate, that’s why there are different flavors) and would be more comfortable (especially that year) and ridged compared to a convertible that flexes.
Again, no wars… I like Vanilla Ice Cream….
Is the GTS ride more comfortable on a GTS?
Thanks.
daveg

 

[costanZo]

I know what you mean costanZo. I have been watching Vipers for a while now as far as price.
I personally like the 96/96 B/W. BUT I understand convertibles….

I'm assuming you meant to say 96/97... I would definitely go with the 96 if you have a choice. 1996 GTS is the first year of the GTS.. also the only year to have the white stripes run through the license plate. That might not be a huge concern to some people.. but I think it looks awesome!

Is the GTS ride more comfortable on a GTS?
Thanks.
daveg

Were you trying to compare the comfort between the GTS and RT/10?? If so I believe they are the same... I actually have custom Venzano interior and have been told from other people with the stock Viper interior that my seats are more comfortable; but the Viper interior regardless is very comfy

 

[daveg]

I'm assuming you meant to say 96/97... I would definitely go with the 96 if you have a choice. 1996 GTS is the first year of the GTS.. also the only year to have the white stripes run through the license plate. That might not be a huge concern to some people.. but I think it looks awesome!


Sorry, meant to say 96/97…. Ahhh no ****, never noticed the stripe through plate. That is the type of info I am looking for… Are the 96 and 97 identical in Motor etc???? Did I hear forged pistons in 97? Different cam in 97???
Thanks.
daveg

 

[99 R/T 10]

All engines from 1996-1999 had the forged internals and 708 "lumpy" cam. But you can only get the B/W (unless ***'s a re-paint) in the 96-97 years.

I had both the GTS(2001) and RT/10(1999) at the same time. I hardly ever drove the GTS, just loved the open air feel of the RT/10. I'll probably get another GTS someday, probably a 96 or 97 B/W, but for now I have 2+ Rt/10's

 

[daveg]

What would you consider the weakest link in the Viper for this year? Motor? Tranny? Rear-end?
daveg

 

[ViperGTS]

I owned both but crashed my GTS.

I have to admit I love driving the RT/10 much more. Had the windows down in the GTS all the time anyway even at very high speeds...I will own a GTS in the future again, but will keep the RT/10.

At the track, the GTS seems to be more rigid. Depending on the color you want, you will have to look into some certain years! You cant go wrong with either one. But if you are a convertible/roadster fan, the RT/10 is the way to go.

 

[costanZo]

I'm assuming you meant to say 96/97... I would definitely go with the 96 if you have a choice. 1996 GTS is the first year of the GTS.. also the only year to have the white stripes run through the license plate. That might not be a huge concern to some people.. but I think it looks awesome!


Sorry, meant to say 96/97…. Ahhh no ****, never noticed the stripe through plate. That is the type of info I am looking for… Are the 96 and 97 identical in Motor etc???? Did I hear forged pistons in 97? Different cam in 97???
Thanks.
daveg

the 96 is the ONLY GTS to have stripes run through the license plate. Also on the doors that rubber molding/weather strip area where the windows come out that I said is calleda belt molding strip. Well I believed those are designed differently on the 96 then they are on 97-02 and anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong because I'm not a 100% certain. I also believe the material the whole dashboard and center console is made out of is different then the other years as well. Once again I'm not 100% certain so somebody else please chime in. Also yes..the 1996 has Forged Pistons where as the later years have Cast. However, I was told the "headers" on the 1996 are worse then the headers on the later model GTS's. The stock Rims on the 1996 are cast and I have heard that if you track the car.. the cast wheel can snap, but that shouldn't be a huge concern to you since I'm sure like lots of people you will buy aftermarket wheels and if not.. I'm sure you won't be tracking this car if you only plan on driving it 2000k miles max a year...

 

[daveg]

I owned both but crashed my GTS.

I have to admit I love driving the RT/10 much more. Had the windows down in the GTS all the time anyway even at very high speeds...I will own a GTS in the future again, but will keep the RT/10.

At the track, the GTS seems to be more rigid. Depending on the color you want, you will have to look into some certain years! You cant go wrong with either one. But if you are a convertible/roadster fan, the RT/10 is the way to go.

I am definitely a roadster type guy but I figured when I want that, I will drive the Vette. Hmmmm ya got me thinking…. Why did you put doubt in my mind?....
One thing I cannot stand about the RT 10 (sorry guys) is the hardtop, think it looks goofy as all hell. I also think the plastic windows / soft-top looks like crap. If I ever bought an RT 10 I would never use either.
I am thinking the GTS is a little more practical / usable
Decisions Decisions. But thinking about it… what a dilemma to have, what Viper to get… LOL…
I am very fortunate to have this problem.
daveg

 

[ViperGTS]

I never use the hardtop.
Later years have real windows (no plastic).
The soft top is for emergency only (rain).

No way those problems could bother me buying a RT/10.

It comes down to the looks. The GTS is more **** - in my opinion. The curves are more aggressive.

But the open roof feeling cant be beat by the GTS!

P.S.: drove >700 miles open last weekend and next week we go to Italy for a week - open!
Except for thunderstorms.

 

[costanZo]

I am definitely a roadster type guy but I figured when I want that, I will drive the Vette. Hmmmm ya got me thinking…. Why did you put doubt in my mind?....
One thing I cannot stand about the RT 10 (sorry guys) is the hardtop, think it looks goofy as all hell. I also think the plastic windows / soft-top looks like crap as well . If I ever bought an RT 10 I would never use either.
I am thinking the GTS is a little more practical / usable
Decisions Decisions. But thinking about it… what a dilemma to have, what Viper to get… LOL…
I am very fortunate to have this problem.
daveg

Here is an aftermarket hardtop. I forget the website where you can buy it... But this guy has it on his car and it's a great upgrade for the RT/10! I'm not positive..but I believe it's a hardtop that can be stored in the trunk of the car since it comes apart in pieces and it's a lot easier to use!

http://forums.viperclub.org/rt-10-gts-discussions/614052-bee-not-bee.html

 

[daveg]

It comes down to the looks. The GTS is more **** - in my opinion. The curves are more aggressive.

But the open roof feeling cant be beat by the GTS!

Well stated.
daveg

 

[IL96RT10]

Don't let practicality make your decision. I have 96 Rt 10 and a regular car. I ended up using the Viper as my daily driver in Chicago. I love it so much, I only put on about 12,000 miles a year for the last 2 years and sure putting the hard top on in the winter is a P.I.A. but it is well worth it. I love driving my car and I don't mind putting on the soft top when the rains come down sure it ***** to get all wet in a surprise thunderstorm and you have to pull off the expressway under an underpass to put the top on w/ trucks screaming by and it is a pain but so worth it for those beautiful warm summer days when you can just drive it for hours w/ no particular destination.

 

[daveg]

Whats the first year for "real" windows on an RT 10?
daveg

 

[goldcup]

I will leave the gts/rt10 debate and tell you my experience with the car
the car never brakes and I have no reservations driving the car acrosss country.My car is basically stock and never fails to start on the first try.I mean no disrespect to your 69 vette
but these cars are lightyears ahead of that car while still retaining its coarseness.
My car does not overheat and I drive in 95 + heat in the summertime.I cant say the same for the cabin it gets nice and hot during the summers,My car always starts first time and is the most trouble free car (fun car)I have owned.My car has only required normal maintenance and no repair in the 9000 miles I have owned it.Maintenance is straight forward and while parts can be expensive there doesnt seem to be a shortage good used parts.
It has been said but NEW TIRES ARE A NECCESSITY NOT AN OPTION the Viper is fond of chasing its tail through many gears if it is run on old rubber.
If you like the looks and you like muscle cars you will probably find that the Viper will become an obsession.

 

[hybrid1098]

bump for Viper noobs like myself. Some good info for prospective buyers.

 

[Vic]

Re: Gen2 pistons- iirc, were forged from 96 to 2000, hyperectectic (sp?) cast in 2000-2002. Cast can handle up to about 700hp I was told. If you are going forced, best to go forged. Cast tends to break under detonation. I'm at about 680 at the crank, but all natural.

The drivers seat side bolster tends to wear out where you slide into the seat. Haven't got mine fixed yet.

The center console can crack where your right elbow leans on it. If yours aint cracked yet, do a search here for step by step upgrade instructions to strengthen it.

Look at where the upper and lower a-arms attach to the frame. Auto crossing has been known to make the frame sheetmetal tear here. Look for cracks.

Iirc, 96 rims probably won't crack if your not tracking the car. So go with a good "lucky feeling", my friend!

 

[Vic]

Recalls were already incorporated by the factory on the 2001+2002.

 

[PhoenixGTS]

What would you consider the weakest link in the Viper for this year? Motor? Tranny? Rear-end?
daveg

The brakes. Not because or reliability issues, but because the too heavy front balance really effects how well they stop the car. Get Tom's 40mm caliper upgrade and it will still look totally stock, but work 100% better. And like someone mentioned above, with the torque it makes, a Viper loves/needs sticky tires so at least fresh tires are a must.

 

[PDCjonny]

Timing chain cover gasket is a common failure had it on both of my GTS's.

 

[musclenutz]

I bought a gen 1 RT/10 almost a year ago and even though the wind blows through the side windows and it roars like a ********** lion in heat, i love that bad a## car! Just bought a 99 GTS and to me it is a world of difference. The GTS is so smooth and refined compared to my old 94. That said,i love them both! It all comes down to what blows your bloomers so check some out first and decide what YOU like.imho

 

[RTTTTed]

I hate convertibles. Bad experinces - tops slashed, theft, leakage, mould and mildew, wind, noisy, sunburnt, windburnt and unsafe in a rollover. Racetrack requires rollbar for stock RT10 because only hardtops are good to 11.5. Open roof not allowed for a lot of road racing and I strongly recommend taking some High Performance Driving lessons.

1999 - 2002 ACR is designed as the race model and new was an extra $10k because of the high hp and smooth tubes, lightweight forged BBS wheels all increase the collectability of the car.

98 still came with only 17" wheels and tires. Rear brakes (to 01 ABS) ruined the braking to .8G. 2001 came with larger rear calipers (like Toms bigger rears)and ABS started in 2001. My 4 sale 2000 ACR and my 2001 both have upgraded brakes.

Cargo area in the R/T 10 is half the GTS 6' vs 12'. If you travel with an R/T 10 then take a raincoat as you top needs to be installed or fills the trunk. GTS is good to go.

These cars do not get hot. They work well. If doing stop light and slow driving Roe Racing makes a front fascia scoop that adds cooling and increases the aerodynamics and front downforce.

I don't like the 96, 97s because the alarm systems can strand you for a month. The 96 and 97s still had cast iron exhaust manifolds so I suggest upgrading those with wheels, brakes, newer stock small tube headers, alarm upgrade, and ALL stock Viper Cats are pure junk. Stock Gen 2 exhaust still sounds terrible, but Corsa or other upgrade sounds the best of all Vipers.

My 01 GTS is my baby and has all upgrades such as tire pressure monitor system, 14" front brakes, lighweight rotors, lightweight wheels, Corsa exhaust, Roe supercharger, Roe fascia scoop, Blue tooth stereo, etc and is better than a new Viper.

If you're familiar with working on cars, buy a modified Viper and pay a few thousand more now and get tens of thousands extra car now.

Ted

 

[RTTTTed]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbOnT9Qj3ew[/media]

A video showing 3 of my Vipers and how they go and sound.

I also have my 2000 ACR for sale in the classifeds.

Your 60s vette can't be compared to a Viper in anyway, except the 2 seats.

I put 9,000miles on my 98 GTS, 31,000miles on my 01 GTS and in a couple months I put 6,000 highway miles on my newest (GTS) ACR. I like my 01 GTS best and the wife likes the 00 Viper best. My GTSs all fot about 20mpg (us) and the lowest rwhp Viper I would own is 600rwhp.

The Viper is the top of the heap. If you're after stock then a new Viper is what you need. Otherwise a modified Gen 2 is the machine you're after. Super reliable modified and even though the 2000 and up (including Gen 3s) have 'cast' pistons, it shouldn't be an issue until the high 600rwhp with a supercharger - then lower the compression to 9 to 1. Of course Nitrous helps decrease detonation and some well engineered system (like my ACR) actually use the Nitrous for the intercooling and decreased detonation. Use a reputable tuner and not the "guy at the end of the road".

I am a car guy. Made a living building other peoples cars and spanking everybody else on the streets. I bought my 01 Suoercharged GTS built by Larry Macedo. I've completely disassembled the engine and complete car and was so impressed with Larry's workmanship and tuning abilities that I bought my ACR because HE built it as well. I have completely gone over this ACR and don some further upgrades (brakes and stereo,etc.) and again am impressed with Larry's work.

All the good tuners are spoken of often on these forums and their modifications should not be classed with "unknowns".

Ted

 

[bigmack339]

Viper GTS Baby! By the way musclecar lover, isnt a mustang vert just a stang?