One racer's quote... "It's not a real car if you've not afraid of it".

[Bruce H.]

Not everyone here tracks their Viper, or would plan to if they bought one, but does this quote ring true to anyone else? If true, then I think the automotive media is well on its way to identifying the most real sports car available today!

Bruce

 

[Fatboy 18]

Oh yes, I know some members that have never pushed their car on the track or even wanted to put their car on the track because of that very reason!

I look at track time as a way of finding out what my limits are and how the car handles, (there's always someone faster out there) I try to remember at what point the car wants to break loose when cornering, braking etc... this then helps you when driving on the street

But the day you loose respect for the car you will be on a downward slope!

 

[DrumrBoy]

I recall Mario Andretti's comment when he exited the RT/10 after his first drive...... "that car is a handful" (and THAT was Indy winner Mario Andretti talking!).

 

[Allan]

I agree.

If the Viper was safe, it wouldn't as much fun.

 

[Bruce H.]

I think I might be just afraid enough of this to order one soon. Three other track day cars going up for sale today.

You must be registered for see images attach

Had anyone heard about any further tweaks coming done the pipe shortly...maybe to TCS?

Bruce

 

[Nine Ball]

I've tracked quite a few different cars, and if I don't feel a hint of fear behind the wheel - they are boring to drive. I've not been able to drive a Viper to the limit, yet. That is what intrigues me about the car, and makes me want to keep trying. Think of it like a roller coaster that you personally own. We've all ridden some lame duck roller coasters, and never felt the need to ride them more than once. Can't get enough of the scary ones, though.

 

[hammerofgods]

Performance defines a sports car, ease of extracting this performance sells it. So far, new Viper has a lot of catching up, with past generation ZR1 being its benchmark. Thrill works better selling tickets for rides in amusement parks.

 

[Nine Ball]

Performance defines a sports car, ease of extracting this performance sells it. So far, new Viper has a lot of catching up, with past generation ZR1 being its benchmark. Thrill works better selling tickets for rides in amusement parks.

People aren't exactly knocking down the doors of the Nissan dealership to buy the GT-R, which is arguably the "easiest" vehicle to extract impressive lap times and 1/4 mile times out of, with very little driver skill required. Very few can drive a ZR1 to the limits, so it sort of falls into the same category as the Viper. There is a big difference between cars that simply aren't capable of excellent performance, vs cars that require excellent driving skill to get that performance. The Viper can do great things, but you have to drive them well. Most cars cannot do things well, even when driven perfectly.

 

[ViperSmith]

People aren't exactly knocking down the doors of the Nissan dealership to buy the GT-R, which is arguably the "easiest" vehicle to extract impressive lap times and 1/4 mile times out of, with very little driver skill required. Very few can drive a ZR1 to the limits, so it sort of falls into the same category as the Viper. There is a big difference between cars that simply aren't capable of excellent performance, vs cars that require excellent driving skill to get that performance. The Viper can do great things, but you have to drive them well. Most cars cannot do things well, even when driven perfectly.

I can't count the number of people I know that have bought at GTR and sold it within 2000 miles.

 

[hammerofgods]

People aren't exactly knocking down the doors of the Nissan dealership to buy the GT-R, which is arguably the "easiest" vehicle to extract impressive lap times and 1/4 mile times out of, with very little driver skill required. Very few can drive a ZR1 to the limits, so it sort of falls into the same category as the Viper. There is a big difference between cars that simply aren't capable of excellent performance, vs cars that require excellent driving skill to get that performance. The Viper can do great things, but you have to drive them well. Most cars cannot do things well, even when driven perfectly.

952 GTR cars sold so far this year.

 

[DMan]

I wouldn't drive a car I was afraid of, not sure the point. If afraid, you're not going to use what it offers so save the money and get something you're not afraid of & go for it. Unless it's a "hey look at my dangerous car" sort of thing.

I'm not afraid of my vipers or my other cars that have far more power than my gen4. I respect them immensly however, knowing they are far more capable than I am & will humble anytime I forget that they are superior. I've spun many times in my earlier gens on the track but never "kissed" an object. I've spun my gen4 once, the car IMO is very predictable, the diff is amazing in this regard to me. You can Tokyo drift it out there a bit and throttle it back and the gearing keeps thing subtle enough that you can play the power in & out. But then, I'm used to slinging 700-800 mustangs around and that's a "handful", but they're all fun as hell.

 

[Bruce H.]

Performance defines a sports car, ease of extracting this performance sells it. So far, new Viper has a lot of catching up, with past generation ZR1 being its benchmark. Thrill works better selling tickets for rides in amusement parks.

That was more the view of the pre-production Vipers being very much in need, but the production ones were much better when Randy tested them along with this TA, which he thought was very well sorted. His on-track comments start at 4:15, and very positive summary comments at 6:10. That TA was also a pre-production car back in March, and it's possible, and perhaps likely, that it's been even further improved.
http://www.supercarmag.com/motor-trend/new-srt-viper-ta-strikes-back-ignition-episode-58/

I hope to see a production TA tested soon.

Bruce

 

[ROCKET62]

Respect might be a better word than afraid. And with over 700 at the crank (need to get a dyno done to get whp) my Viper still scares the crap out of me and I love every minute of it. Nothing puts a smile on your face like a ride in a Viper.

 

[hammerofgods]

That was more the view of the pre-production Vipers being very much in need, but the production ones were much better when Randy tested them along with this TA, which he thought was very well sorted. His on-track comments start at 4:15, and very positive summary comments at 6:10. That TA was also a pre-production car back in March, and it's possible, and perhaps likely, that it's been even further improved.
http://www.supercarmag.com/motor-trend/new-srt-viper-ta-strikes-back-ignition-episode-58/

I'm hope to see a production TA tested soon.

Bruce

Hopefully, the production version of TA has been greatly improved since this one barely overtook the past generation ZR1, thus, very little margin to take on the upcoming ZR1. If the base Viper lapped this time, this would be a great starting point, making future more promising.

 

[ViperSmith]

Fastest lap ever still isn't good enough for some.

lmao

 

[Bruce H.]

Very few can drive a ZR1 to the limits, so it sort of falls into the same category as the Viper. There is a big difference between cars that simply aren't capable of excellent performance, vs cars that require excellent driving skill to get that performance. The Viper can do great things, but you have to drive them well. Most cars cannot do things well, even when driven perfectly.

Exactly. And the more challenging car to drive approaching the limit is also the car that's going to be the most rewarding to track. I have two cars that I have modified extensively for lapping days, and have often run both on the same day. Others ask which I prefer. I'm amazed with the one for its superior cornering grip/acceleration/lap times and incredible balance that allows you to steer it with your right foot. When I run a great session I credit the car as being the hero. But when I've run a great session with the other car that's always ready to bite me if I get it wrong I'm truly the hero, and while it isn't as fast, it is more rewarding. Both a blast to track, both equally appealing, yet for very different reasons.

I recognize after many years of tracking that the appeal for me is driving approaching the limit. I stopped timing laps a while back as they just seemed less important. Driving well and challenging myself with my other track buddies is why I do it. Where I've been concerned that the SRT and GTS might be a bit too much of a challenge/risk at the limit, I'm feeling less so now, and I have a feeling future tests of the TA will confirm Randy's view that it is fully ready for track day prime-time. A track buddy/racer that sees Randy from time to time confirms that he is extremely impressed with the Viper now, and the TA particularly for the lapping day enthusiast.

Most high-end buyers will naturally choose the cars that are easy to drive at the limit (even if they never will), and be blown away by the latest technology that makes that possible. They'll all be enjoyable to drive...just not the challenge and thrill that some of us are looking for. And then there's the visual and emotional thrill of just looking at it sitting still!

Bruce

 

[klamathpro]

I can't count the number of people I know that have bought at GTR and sold it within 2000 miles.

I don't know, I will likely be testing that theory first hand. I drove a GT-R and fell for it's handling. It just has a butterface though. (But Her Face - for you geezers) One reason you see a lot of them for sale is because of the high number of lease turn-ins. Nissan leased the crap out of that car. And people buying $100K+ cars typically "trade-up" in a few years. The problem is, in order to truly trade up from a GT-R, you need to add a zero to the price tag.

The reason I want a GT-R is simple. I'm competitive. I want to have the fastest street car in town and never blow a launch. I want to eat every other car on the track, including those with drivers that have more skill than me. I want 800HP I can put to the ground at every light. I want easy bolt-ons and a PCM that is not locked. Am I a cheating? I really don't care.... FTW (For The Win - for you geezers)

 

[ViperSmith]

I don't know, I will likely be testing that theory first hand. I drove a GT-R and fell for it's handling. It just has a butterface though. (But Her Face - for you geezers) One reason you see a lot of them for sale is because of the high number of lease turn-ins. Nissan leased the crap out of that car. And people buying $100K+ cars typically "trade-up" in a few years. The problem is, in order to truly trade up from a GT-R, you need to add a zero to the price tag.

The reason I want a GT-R is simple. I'm competitive. I want to have the fastest street car in town and never blow a launch. I want to eat every other car on the track, including those with drivers that have more skill than me. I want 800HP I can put to the ground at every light. I want easy bolt-ons and a PCM that is not locked. Am I a cheating? I really don't care.... FTW (For The Win - for you geezers)

Without a doubt it is a monster - but everyone I talk to just grows bored of it eventually. It is too perfect in what it does seems to be the consensus.

But yeah, you can tune the hell out of them.

 

[Fatboy 18]

Driving a Viper in the Rain at speed can be a bit hairy!

I have total respect for drivers who have to do that at Le mans!

 

[Bruce H.]

Hopefully, the production version of TA has been greatly improved since this one barely overtook the past generation ZR1, thus, very little margin to take on the upcoming ZR1. If the base Viper lapped this time, this would be a great starting point, making future more promising.

I've always respected the Vettes/ZR1/Viper but never wanted one, primarily because the interiors seemed lacking for what I look for in a sports car. Now that they've both been greatly improved in just about every way I'm very much drawn to the Viper, but still not at all to the Stingray, and surely won't be to any future C7 Z0 or ZR version. The look and shape turns me off, and I could never choose a pricey toy that I didn't lust after. So the constant splitting of hairs in their performance will surely continue as long as both cars continue to be improved, and who knows when or if a C7 ZR will even be built. But either way, the chance of me buying any C7 Vette based on possible future performance improvements isn't very promising at all. That's a pastime for those not in the market to buy, and will likely cause decision paralysis when that time eventually comes because they think there's always something better coming along in the future that they and everyone else should wait for.

Bruce

 

[Bruce H.]

I don't know, I will likely be testing that theory first hand. I drove a GT-R and fell for it's handling. It just has a butterface though. (But Her Face - for you geezers) One reason you see a lot of them for sale is because of the high number of lease turn-ins. Nissan leased the crap out of that car. And people buying $100K+ cars typically "trade-up" in a few years. The problem is, in order to truly trade up from a GT-R, you need to add a zero to the price tag.

The reason I want a GT-R is simple. I'm competitive. I want to have the fastest street car in town and never blow a launch. I want to eat every other car on the track, including those with drivers that have more skill than me. I want 800HP I can put to the ground at every light. I want easy bolt-ons and a PCM that is not locked. Am I a cheating? I really don't care.... FTW (For The Win - for you geezers)

Sounds like the perfect car for you, and you can keep it as long as you're enjoying it. That's exactly what we're all doing.

 

[Space Truckin]

I can honestly say after owning the first four gens, the Gen V is actually intimidating. It is not just the hp/ torque but everything else going on in the cockpit, my wife made the observation the other night on the way to dinner "you don't look comfortable". I am enjoying getting to "know" the nuances of the new Viper.

 

[hammerofgods]

double post

 

[hammerofgods]

Performance and drivability typically take a back seat when shopping for a toy. Viper tail lights look much better than new Corvette's though.

I've always respected the Vettes/ZR1/Viper but never wanted one, primarily because the interiors seemed lacking for what I look for in a sports car. Now that they've both been greatly improved in just about every way I'm very much drawn to the Viper, but still not at all to the Stingray, and surely won't be to any future C7 Z0 or ZR version. The look and shape turns me off, and I could never choose a pricey toy that I didn't lust after. So the constant splitting of hairs in their performance will surely continue as long as both cars continue to be improved, and who knows when or if a C7 ZR will even be built. But either way, the chance of me buying any C7 Vette based on possible future performance improvements isn't very promising at all. That's a pastime for those not in the market to buy, and will likely cause decision paralysis when that time eventually comes because they think there's always something better coming along in the future that they and everyone else should wait for.

Bruce

 

[DMan]

Fastest lap ever still isn't good enough for some. lmao

For real. LoL.

 

[VENOM V]

I think I might be just afraid enough of this to order one soon. Three other track day cars going up for sale today.

You must be registered for see images attach

Had anyone heard about any further tweaks coming done the pipe shortly...maybe to TCS?

Bruce

Hi Bruce,

The fact that you have three track day cars now is enough for me to tell that the Viper is the one for you. For someone such as you that knows how to drive well at the track and is competent in car control, the Viper is a dream to drive on the track. It's fair to say that I'm obsessed with tracking. There are three cars that I know intimately well on the track now: My Camaro which has 560 HP, coilovers and some seriously wide R compounds, the C6 Corvettes, and the Gen V Viper (still getting to know the Viper). The Viper is, by far, the most enjoyable to drive hard. It is also the fastest, faster than the ZR1 and Z06, faster than the C7 Z51, and much much faster than the Grand Sport. It's funny because if I lived in a cave that housed only track cars and I didn't read the forums or media, I would not believe the exxagerations about how the Viper is a handful to drive (exept for some of the pre-production Vipers that SRT gave to the media with toe-out and other problems). I can't speak for earlier generations, but the Gen V is NOT hard to drive hard, I'm not afraid of it.

I have two cars that I track: My Camaro and the Viper. I take the Viper only to tracks that I'm comfortable on, that I've felt out with the Camaro. This is not because it's harder to drive, it's because it's value is higher and the stakes are greater. I just came up with a new 5-year goal: I am planning on replacing the Camaro with a new track car in about 5 years. In CA you have 6 years on a new car before a smog check is required, so I'll convert the engine back to stock then. At that time, I will find a used Gen V ACR and that will become my primary track car (assuming the ACR comes out by then).

One comment about the TA- It was only 0.61 seconds faster per lap than the GTS at Seca. Here's the thing - at the tracks that I run, cars with basic aero (a wing and a splitter) are 3 to 4 seconds faster than those without. The TA had the carbon aero package, which adds 300 pounds of downforce at 150 MPH. That is significant, that should be worth at least a second per lap! I would NOT be surprised if the base SRT or GTS with the carbon aero package was as fast as the TA, I'm not convinced the TA is that much better. I'd take my GTS with the two-mode street/race dampers over the stiff TA for that reason. I'm trying to add the carbon aero package to my GTS, if Mopar will get off of their butts and sell it to me. Another thought to ponder - I really like the stability control system with 4 levels on the GTS. I like to drive it with reduced traction and stability control, but not full off. It's extremely well tuned, it won't intervene unless you really need it to. The SRT is either full on or full off, I don't like that. I don't recall if the TA is 4 level or not. But I would go with a Viper with 4 level.

With the GTS, I just drove to Vegas with my lady and tracked at Spring Mountain for three days, then enjoyed cruising to fine restaurants and shows. Last month I went wine tasting with the NorCal Viper Club. In three weeks, I'm tracking it for three days with the Porsche Club of America (that's gonna be fun to play with the Germans!). It's a versatile car. A true GT car for sure, but it is stiff and raw and loud and connected and damned fun to drive! Not as isolated as the Corvettes.

On another Gen V forum, I did a write-up about tracking my Viper along with the ZR1, Z06, Grand Sport and the new C7. I drove them all on the same track over a span of three days, back to back. Apples to apples comparison. It reinforced that I bought the right car for me. The Viper is pure Nirvana on the track.

 

[Nine Ball]

On another Gen V forum, I did a write-up about tracking my Viper along with the ZR1, Z06, Grand Sport and the new C7. I drove them all on the same track over a span of three days, back to back. Apples to apples comparison. It reinforced that I bought the right car for me. The Viper is pure Nirvana on the track.

Link to review?

 

[VENOM V]

Link to review?

Here's the Gen V Viper Vs. ZR1, Z06, Grand Sport and C7 Z51 Corvette Review:

http://www.viperalley.com/forum/2013-srt-viper-discussion/134033-tracking-gen-v-zr1.html

 

[klamathpro]

Without a doubt it is a monster - but everyone I talk to just grows bored of it eventually. It is too perfect in what it does seems to be the consensus.

But yeah, you can tune the hell out of them.

I might get bored eventually. But that's why I'm keeping the GTS, to fill in those boring moments when killing everything on the street and track is not as fun, and full feedback driving is.

 

[MtnBiker]

I don't know, I will likely be testing that theory first hand. I drove a GT-R and fell for it's handling. It just has a butterface though. (But Her Face - for you geezers) One reason you see a lot of them for sale is because of the high number of lease turn-ins. Nissan leased the crap out of that car. And people buying $100K+ cars typically "trade-up" in a few years. The problem is, in order to truly trade up from a GT-R, you need to add a zero to the price tag.

The reason I want a GT-R is simple. I'm competitive. I want to have the fastest street car in town and never blow a launch. I want to eat every other car on the track, including those with drivers that have more skill than me. I want 800HP I can put to the ground at every light. I want easy bolt-ons and a PCM that is not locked. Am I a cheating? I really don't care.... FTW (For The Win - for you geezers)

Is your name Lance Armstrong? Being competitive doesn't mean FTW, I mean ***?!?!?! Being competitive means embracing and enjoying the spirit of competition. Winning isn't everything, in fact, in life we often learn more from our failures than our successes. And don't forget, there is always someone faster.