Paxton or Roe Supercharger, technical details for a German Guy. Water/****???

[Stahlhart]

Hi there,

I´m from Germany and I´m going to buy a SC this year. I know this is not the first time somebody asking for the best Supercharger, but there´s a little difference. I know what I want, but I don´t know what to buy

I will also use: Build cylinder heads, harland Sharp roller rockers, headers, high flow exhaust and high flow cats, 70mm throttle bodies, smooth tubes, k&n, cooling,... Some parts I´m already using at the moment. I will not going on track, maybe 1/4 mile but normaly it´s my fun car driving 4000 miles/year. I´m expecting 700-800 HP using this parts including the SC, I think this can be possible.

I know I can get more HP with the Paxton, but I like the version of RoeRacing. But there´s a doubt: The cooling, there´s no intercooler available for the Roe just water/****. I´m very sceptic about water/****. You know we don´t have speed limits on our Autobahn, and I also want to go 120+ mph without having big problems with loosing a lot of power or an engine damage.

Do anyone of you guys have a long-term experience with using water/****? Does it work safe, during the summer/long rides? Any pros an conts?

I think the **** is corrosive against metal Parts and sealings, and some Parts will be damaged after a time?

What are the experiences with the guys in hot areas like Florida or Cali?

One more questions about the Paxton:

Can I use the 70mm throttle bodies with the Paxton SC-Kit?

Thanks a lot and have a nice day.

Greetings

Jürgen

 

[vipzilla]

your options are you can go paxton a roe s/c you would have to buy used roe racing is not selling them anymore.... yes u can use 70mm tb's

 

[Stahlhart]

Hey,

sorry I´m not sure what you meaning?

Greetings

Jürgen

 

[Allan]

Go with the Paxton, there's more support for that set up. -they seem to have all the bugs worked out, and they make a lot of power.

 

[DrumrBoy]

Paxton seems to be the most consistent in terms of performance, and they are still made so there's more support for them at the moment. Roe's can work great, many people are very happy with them, but there are also a few who've had the S/C rebuilt numerous times and aren't so happy with it. I have no idea whether the issues were manufacturing or application related.

 

[Stahlhart]

Hey there,

thanks for your answers. I think I will buy the Paxton.
Is it useful to use the 70mm Throttle bodies with the Paxton? I just saw the pictures and I think the conections for the air are just 55mm?

Do you guys know a good shop where to buy the paxton for a real good price?

Greetings

Jürgen

 

[EllowViper]

If you are focusing on long pulls under boost, go with the Paxton. I run out of W/M pretty quick on my ROE when I'm out on long pulls. Nonetheless, I'd still consider a small shot of water to cool the intake charge and manage combustion temps even wi th the Paxton. You will be building a lot of exhaust temps and your rings gaps are going to close on a stock motor leading to poping ring lands. The stock motors were never designed for the additional heat of combustion you will be introducing and under sustained boost, your rings will expand and the only place to go is out. Additionally, stock motors run pretty tight piston to cylinder clearances as well and without some way to manage the thermal expansion, you will be scoring the cylinders as well. Been there done that. On my ROE, I'm running .008 skirt clearance and .018 ring end gaps. Stock are much much tighter..and for the 00-02 cream puff motors, we are talking .002/.003. With water injection, you can run a lot tighter clearances. Not so much without. So at the end of the day, its not so much Roe vs Paxton vs W/M, but how best to manage cylinder temps and expansion issues under sustained boost.

 

[Stahlhart]

@EllowViper:

Thanks for your answer.
So you still run the Roe? Your Pistons are stock, You just use different rings?

Sorry for asking, whats the exactly meaning of "long pulls"?

Why are you not using w/m anymore?

Greetings

Jürgen

 

[Paul Hawker]

Long pulls means heavy throttle for extended periods of time, as opposed to a quick run throught the gears. Heat management becomes more of an issue the longer you are under boost.

Roe has stopped producing and selling his supercharger system. Doing other things now.

Please let us know what year Viper you drive?

 

[Stahlhart]

Hello Paul,

thanks for your explanation haven´t known the meaning.

I´ve got a 1994 RT/10 US-Version. At the moment I´m running High flow cats and mufflers, 70mm throttle bodies, HS RR 1.7 ratio, fully polished intake modifold (from ´96), smooth tubes, K&Ns und a modified air filter housing (70mm). New break system is also installed (front + rear, K-sport).

To reduce temperatures I will also buy a tripple pass radiator, 170° termostat, silicon hoses. I also want to reduce temperatures with less backflooding using Belanger Headers and new build cylinder heads.

I want to reach 800HP (crank) with these components and a comp cam.

I asked Sean (Roe) for pricing, he told me that the are - at the moment - not available. It´s the first time I heard that they stopped the production. Do you know why?

A few more question:

What esle do I need to run my engine safe?

Do you think my cooling steps are enough?

Is it useful to use a VEC 3 with the Paxton?

Is it useful to run 70mm throttle bodies with the Paxton?

Thanks and have a nice sunday.

Jürgen

 

[EllowViper]

I am running new forged pistons after wrecking my stock ones (for several reasons). Yes, I'm still running the ROE with W/M and plan on staying with it. Its just too much fun. One thing with my ROE. Once I get up to speed, I'm not into full boost all the time since the engine isn't under as much load and it takes less HP to maintain a certain speed vice get to that speed. But unlike you, I can't really sustain any legitimate high speed in the US of A. So in many ways, you are heading into uncharted territory when it comes to some of these questions. I have to ask...just how far or how long can you run at top speed? I drove the Autobahn from Frankfurt to Stuttgart in my rental, but never had anything exotic pass me at any sort of impressive speeds.

 

[Stahlhart]

Hi,

do you have a Gen2? I thought the gen1 had forged pistons? How many HP do you have in your Viper? Which updates did you?
I´m not the typical Autobahn Racer, normaly I speed up a few times and that´s it.

Greetings

 

[EllowViper]

Gen II 2001 GTS. Yellow so its really fast!!! Just under 700 hp. Replacement forged pistons, stock rods. Solid roller cam, somehead work, 1.7 T&D rockers, 70mm TBs, bellanger headers. A llittle bigger blower (2.8 ltr vs the standard 2.4) with a modified lower intake plenum. Stuff like that. You want to buy the supercharger set-up? Its for sale. I think it fits both GEN 1 and GEN II. Sean Roe would know for sure.

 

[plumcrazy]

adding 70MM TB's on a paxton will likely hurt power. JD had a fully built engine/paxton and his dropped in power with it andDLM told me not to do it on mine either.

 

[Paul Hawker]

I know this may sound counter intuitive (strange), but instead of a supercharger, you might also wish to consider a gear change instead.

Stock Vipers have really long gearing. The highest speeds are attained in 5th gear. 6th gear provides better fuel economy for cruising, but poor throttle response at most speeds.

If you were to just change out your rear gear to a 3:54, not only would your Viper lunge forward faster in the lower gears, but in addition you could cruise the Autobahn's at 150mph in 6th gear, with great throttle response and a better feeling of power.

We call this "the poor man's supercharger" as you get a pretty good feeling of power, while not spening so much money.

70 mm throttle bodies can also cost you torque at cruising revs. Unless you are running headers and a built motor, they often do not give a performance increase.

Hope you are having a blast on the Autobahns. I once got a speeding ticket on the open speed Autostrata in Italy. While they have no speed limits, I was coming out of a tunnel, where they had some restrictions.