Personal VCA Renewal Decision

[CBR-ACR]

Chris,
After much reflection and out of the respect I have for you (and Brian), I feel compelled to provide full disclosure to share my decision to renew my membership with the VCA for 2014. To be honest, I actually thought of not renewing with the VCA nor join the new club. The constant counterproductive name calling, the uninformed allegations and personal attacks would have made such a decision very easy. I have chosen not to engage with that minority and wish some of the members of the VCA would do the same as there really is no rationalizing with an irrational individual. You never can win those debates especially, when they are behind a keyboard. When you ignore those type of posts (on either side) they tend to go away. It really takes some discipline to refrain from doing so, I just choose not read those posts anymore. This was a difficult decision for me but I believe it is the best decision at this time.

Please know, that I am definitely not condoning the past actions of the VCA leadership (and that includes some that are still in a leadership role with the VCA, as well as those who chose to leave voluntarily or involuntarily), from my perspective, they ALL had and have a responsibility to the disposition of the club today. I trust my decision will not affect our relationship or the friendships we have begun to develop this past year. The Carolina Viper Club had a fantastic year and we were just getting some excellent traction going forward. If acceptable, I hope that I can still participate with the CVC at events though I understand at a higher non-member rate.

Please know that I have not made this decision without due diligence as I have contacted several members throughout the VCA, from both the east and west coasts as well as three active leadership members of the current VCA who appear to be investing significant effort on reform and the restructuring of the VCA of the future to be not only the club it once was, but even better. They all have “Day Jobs” and I was satisfied (borderline impressed) with what I heard and the commitment they are making to address the issues shared, and more importantly the action they are working towards to ensure the concerns of the past will not reoccur and protect the club from such an opportunity in the future. Chris, I appreciate how you have handled our Regions’ decision and also I have learned that your feedback (as I assume some of the other Regional officers prior to the “vote”) was heard and being utilized. Herein lies my conflict, my personal character will not allow me to abandon something I truly believe in and at a time that all may be loss, I just can’t walk away (jump ship) from a person, a situation, job or even a car club such as the VCA when it may be at its darkest point. Maybe it’s a character flaw of mine, but I find myself wanting to support the VCA through this very challenging time. I want to make a positive difference in the club. With that stated, I hope the VCA will not take my caring position as a sign of ignorance, but I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and actually the worst case scenario is I am out $150, big deal.

I too was saddened by the now infamous renewal letter, but what is done is done and I am confident if they could take it back they would. I viewed this letter as a response to the constant barrage of personal attacks which led to an emotional choice to send. Though a poor decision, and one that I would never had made, I can actually somewhat empathize the reason they felt the need to share this documentation to the membership, again, I am not in agreement that they should have, but it is done, it is history now.

Though it is very difficult to see any positives in the current club fragmentation, as for me, there is no need to rehash all of the issues and concerns that led to the current state of the VCA as well as the formation of the new club. That is done, it’s now about moving forward, address the issues and begin the “healing” process. In time, hopefully both clubs will be able to cordially interact and collaborate for what is best for everything Viper. Though, that will require a sincere attitude of humility and courageous leadership from both organizations which will be a challenge, but hopefully something for the future. As an Officer of a Fortune 100 company, I do recognize another casualty with this club spilt and that is with our Sponsors. From a business perspective, their 2014 budget will need to be increased or that they may need to consider additional trade-offs to support both clubs. Though a small minority might opt out of one club or another, it would be in their (this includes SRT) best interest to not choose sides as they would be losing impressions with a segment of prospective customers. It’s all about brand building and the last thing a sponsoring corporation wants is to be placed in a position to take sides in what could easily be deemed by many a political issue. Personally, like many others, I have supported those sponsors that support our club and plan to continue to so in the future.

So in closing, I apologize for the lengthy post, but maybe, just maybe there is a silver lining here somewhere. Whatever the number of VCA members will be in 2014, the one thing we do know is that we will have a committed and loyal base to build from, be it just 500, 1000 or whatever the membership ends up to be. The VCA will have members that want to see it succeed, a common bond if you will. I believe that is a huge positive and could be leveraged to the benefit of the VCA and its members. If the membership ends up equally spilt or even less, the VCA needs to have an operating plan to function at that new funding base, the 2014 members will understand as long as the reform plan is in place (such as the by-law revision, transparency with meetings/ VPA/audits/financial performance/raffles, and that membership has a voice and the *** listens and responds to that voice for the best interest of the membership, and as important, the new leadership must understand that they serve the membership and not the other way around. I am LOOKING FORWARD to SEEING the REFORM PLAN IN THE NEAR FUTURE. In addition, the detractors in which I do not label all of those that chose to leave as detractors, but rather those that who clearly have no interest or intention with the restructuring of the VCA will have no reason to communicate such negative and non-productive posts as they will now be in their perceived “utopia” …. the “other” club. I actually wish the new club and its members well and I hope that those VCA members who choose to stay with the VCA are given the same courtesy.

I know I am in the minority, and I may end up being the single only member of the Carolina’s VCA, but it’s a start (Club of One ). Even if there are only two regions in the entire country, like the “East of the Mississippi Region” and “West of the Mississippi Region”, I do have a car trailer and will travel to participate with like members who share the same view as I. Now that will make for a solid foundation to rebuild from! Its a car club, I just want to enjoy my car with others like me.

Chris and members of the CVC, I wish all you and your families a very Happy Holiday and a safe, healthy and prosperous New Year!

Respectfully,
Chuck
2010 Snakeskin Green ACR
#22 of 30

 

[Bird325]

Well stated Chuck and very well thought out. I, for one, will be working towards that same reformation from 'West of the Mississippi' and I, too, am committed to coming out of this as a stronger club.

Mike

 

[slysnake]

Nice letter.

 

[Bobpantax]

"Herein lies my conflict, my personal character will not allow me to abandon something I truly believe in and at a time that all may be loss, I just can’t walk away (jump ship) from a person, a situation, job or even a car club such as the VCA when it may be at its darkest point. Maybe it’s a character flaw of mine, but I find myself wanting to support the VCA through this very challenging time. I want to make a positive difference in the club."

Thoughtful and well written letter. If the above is a character flaw, I am proud to also have it. You are a mensch.

 

[mendler23]

Completely understand, Chuck. Please know that you are an important part the Carolinas Viper Club - no matter what. We all simply want to drive our Vipers with our friends and that will never change.... Well, we may try driving them without floormats next time, BUT OTHER THAN THAT... it will never change.

Hope to see you on the road soon,

Chris

 

[johniew398]

I've decided personally to no pay dues to either club and just enjoy my Viper.

I would pay dues to a local or regional club; however a local club is out of the question since there are only about five Vipers in the area.

 

[CBR-ACR]

I've decided personally to no pay dues to either club and just enjoy my Viper.

I would pay dues to a local or regional club; however a local club is out of the question since there are only about five Vipers in the area.

Hi Johnie, I certainly understand and can personally empathize with you. I too was going through those same questions and concerns that you have about renewal. Not joining or in this case supporting the VCA would have been very easy and then watch on the sidelines to see what happens and then decide. I had to take a good look at myself and realized that if ever the VCA needed support it is today, right now, so I chose to renew. More importantly, I have never felt so committed to contribute to the future success of the VCA then I do now. I have enjoyed the benefits of the VCA, the friendships formed, the events I have attended, the knowledge I have gained on the website and yes even the entertainment value of the forums, the technical guidance from some of the sponsors (Thank you Tony), the parts discounts, for that matter, I even found my car through Woodhouse here, etc…… So in a sense I am just giving back, it is the least that I can do, and in a year, if things haven’t improved, I can walk away knowing that I did my best to help the club when it was needed. I just feel it is the right thing to do. If I can do anything for you, please don’t hesitate to contact me and thank you for sharing your thoughts. By the way, love your ACR.

 

[CBR-ACR]

"Herein lies my conflict, my personal character will not allow me to abandon something I truly believe in and at a time that all may be loss, I just can’t walk away (jump ship) from a person, a situation, job or even a car club such as the VCA when it may be at its darkest point. Maybe it’s a character flaw of mine, but I find myself wanting to support the VCA through this very challenging time. I want to make a positive difference in the club."

Thoughtful and well written letter. If the above is a character flaw, I am proud to also have it. You are a mensch.

Hi Bob, thanks for the kind words. It really is not a personal issues rather its much more about principle for me. I can choose to be part of the problem or part of the solution, I choose the latter. It's way too easy to criticize the past issues even as valid as some may be. I have received numerous PM's which all have been positive in regards to my post, which was unexpected. That feedback supports my decision as well as motivates me to want to make a difference, lets fix the VCA. Sometimes it just takes one to start........ the question is, are there others that feel the same as some of us do?

 

[CBR-ACR]

Well stated Chuck and very well thought out. I, for one, will be working towards that same reformation from 'West of the Mississippi' and I, too, am committed to coming out of this as a stronger club.

Mike

Mike, I am with you 100%!!! Thank you for sharing and if it comes down to just the two of us, I say we meet halfway and have our own VOI. I just pm'ed you my cell number, lets talk sometime. We are in it together, for the good, the bad and unfortunately the ugly.... I look forward to getting it back to the good.

Best,
Chuck

 

[CBR-ACR]

Nice letter.

Thank you slysnake.

 

[CBR-ACR]

Completely understand, Chuck. Please know that you are an important part the Carolinas Viper Club - no matter what. We all simply want to drive our Vipers with our friends and that will never change.... Well, we may try driving them without floormats next time, BUT OTHER THAN THAT... it will never change.

Hope to see you on the road soon,

Chris

Thanks Chris that means a lot to me and I want you to know that I am very proud to be part of the Carolina Viper Club. You and Brian made a good leadership team for the club, I think it’s because you two have differing but unique strengths in which the club benefitted from. I want to thank you for welcoming me into the club and that you and the other members made me feel to want to be part an active participant of the CVC. I value our relationship and who knows how everything shakes out in a year, only time will tell. I am grateful that you respect my position and just like you said we all simply want to drive our Vipers with our friends and that will never change....
By the way, I am going to be in Raleigh (and surrounding areas) on the 17th and 18th for business and I do have a meeting at the Capitol on Wednesday morning, but I hope to meet up with Craig for lunch. If you (or any other members) are available would love to have you join us, let me know.
Chuck

 

[Paul Hawker]

I have heard these same feelings and concerns from a number of VCA members that I have met over the years, and from not only the USA, but also internationally.

I believe the choice will come down to the individual members. If you have had some great times with your regional and national VCA, most will choose to stay VCA.

For those who were dissenters and did not have good experiences with the club, they will most likely try out the San Francisco Club.

I will be very happy if this all calms down, and people can just join the club that helps them optimize their Viper Ownership Experience.

As far as for me, I do not care all that much about all the politics, but just want to hang out with my Viper Buddies. It has been a great ride.

 

[3SXVPR]

Great post Chuck and one heck of an explanation for your actions. I believe there are some issues that should not have occurred in the past and that there still may be some skeletons in the closet of the VCA. However, I also believe the club has had many positive factors for members like myself and I also believe in not jumping ship too quickly when things are tough.
I will evaluate things for another year as a member of the VCA to see where things lead.
If everyone else abandons you Chuck, you will not need to remain in your "club of one" I will at least be there to double the membership roster
Steve

 

[SteveMat]

Awesome and well thought out post Chuck. Like yourself and others, I have been watching from the sidelines thinking about what to do and where to go. I remember when I joined VCA, it was all part of that “I made it moment” when I bought the Viper way back when. So while I haven’t been as active these past couple years, I don’t think I can abandon the VCA quite yet….

 

[CBR-ACR]

Carolina VCA Status Update: Membership up 300%

Gentlemen, a new slant to an old saying, one is lonely, two is a crowd and now three makes the VCA Carolina Chapter open for business! It’s a start and I always believed, "just begin and the rest is easy”! I appreciate your willingness to publicly state your support, knowing both of you, it doesn’t surprise me, thank you for looking at this issue without an emotional filter.

I also feel the same as you that the VCA will need to address the issues that have occurred that led the VCA to be in this very challenging position. Based on the letters and calls I have received, that it is not all doom and gloom for the VCA as some members tend to think. Let’s give it a year, nothing to really lose, but EVERYTHING to gain.

There are so many issues created by splitting an already small group in difficult economic times that there really are no winners. Unfortunately, I am certain that 2014 will be a challenging year for us in the VCA, but it in a sense it will be “purged” of the members who didn’t care enough to look past some INDIVIDUALS and keep the best interest of the club in mind. It’s all about getting through 2014 and building from there. I sense that the remaining members actually may become closer than ever, which will be a real benefit for the VCA going forward.

Steve, we can do a VOI at your race shop, your Dyno is amazing and Dyno Days are always fun, I will take care of the food!

I will forward you some communication I have received, I think you will be pleased and appreciate it and I will touch base with you both soon, let’s do dinner after the holidays with our better halves.

 

[Brian GTS]

Carolina VCA Status Update: Membership up 300%

Gentlemen, a new slant to an old saying, one is lonely, two is a crowd and now three makes the VCA Carolina Chapter open for business! It’s a start and I always believed, "just begin and the rest is easy”! I appreciate your willingness to publicly state your support, knowing both of you, it doesn’t surprise me, thank you for looking at this issue without an emotional filter.

I also feel the same as you that the VCA will need to address the issues that have occurred that led the VCA to be in this very challenging position. Based on the letters and calls I have received, that it is not all doom and gloom for the VCA as some members tend to think. Let’s give it a year, nothing to really lose, but EVERYTHING to gain.

There are so many issues created by splitting an already small group in difficult economic times that there really are no winners. Unfortunately, I am certain that 2014 will be a challenging year for us in the VCA, but it in a sense it will be “purged” of the members who didn’t care enough to look past some INDIVIDUALS and keep the best interest of the club in mind. It’s all about getting through 2014 and building from there. I sense that the remaining members actually may become closer than ever, which will be a real benefit for the VCA going forward.

Steve, we can do a VOI at your race shop, your Dyno is amazing and Dyno Days are always fun, I will take care of the food!

I will forward you some communication I have received, I think you will be pleased and appreciate it and I will touch base with you both soon, let’s do dinner after the holidays with our better halves.

Chuck,

Chris and I respect your decision to stay with the VCA, but I would appreciate if you could respect our decision secede. Your sly comment regarding the “VCA will be purged of the members who didn’t care enough…” really goes too far in my book.

Chris and I put a ton of heartfelt effort into the Carolinas VCA this year. We not only donated countless hours of time planning events, creating a new website, and creating a new newsletter, but because we “cared”, Chris and I donated out of our own pockets to be sure our events were taken up a notch.

However, based on all of various issues we had to deal with the VCA, particularly with the lack of funding, information, and progress updates (even still going on today), we had to consider leaving for the best interest of our region. Truthfully, it was not something that was easy for me to consider personally since I have been a member of the VCA for well over 10 years.

However, rather than making this decision on our own, we presented members with the real facts, took 2 e-mail polls, and held 2 member conference calls to answer questions and get feedback. Over 90% of the members that voted desired to leave the VCA or trusted our decision. The members spoke, we listened, and we agreed based on the lack of progress and other information we had.

Therefore, I want to make it clear that we care deeply about the Carolinas Viper Owners and we did what we thought was right for our region based on the facts, the people still involved, and the feedback we received from membership.

So, let it be known that there were a lot of people like us who cared greatly about the VCA and “the best interest of the club”, but enough is enough.

Brian

 

[Paul Hawker]

Brian.

I am being serious here, and know a lot of the people that are working behind the scenes to reform the VCA and make it a place that the members would feel more comfortable.

If you could please tell me which specific items were instrumental in leaving the VCA (10 year member) and going over to VOA, it may give some direction for them to make some needed changes.

I am asking this specifically to help make the VCA a better place, and do not want to slight the VOA in any manner.

If you have any solid complaints about the VCA, that have been made available to you from VOA it would be earnestly appreciated.

I know about regional money that was slow to come, and the inability for Presidents to vote on many board issues. Just trying to get a handle on other issues.

I promise to accept your comments as offered.

The Carolinas club was a club that made great improvements in their own club over the past couple years. They members seemed very engaged and enthusiastic. I respect what they have accomplished there, and wish to see their take on this.

If you do not wish to post on this forum, a PM to me would be appreciated.

PS. Chuck seems to be a pretty good guy. Hope you guys can get along and enjoy your Vipers with one another. Not all that many Viper owners in the Carolinas, and it is pretty friendly country.

 

[Bobpantax]

At the time that most, if not all, of the Regions had a vote on whether or not to leave the VCA emotions were running very high.

There was a great deal of anger then that when looked at in a calmer light now can be seen as really focused on the acts of a few individuals.

Many Members were so upset that it was difficult, if not impossible, for them to separate the VCA as an entity with a proud heritage from those few people passing through its leadership who were perceived as causing the problems.

Example. Assume a Member owned a Viper that was his pride and joy for many years. the Member lends the car to a friend for two weeks while he is out of town on vacation. The friend, while driving the Viper, runs over someone's pet; gets two speeding tickets; and gets caught by his spouse having Clinton sex in the car with his secretary. The wife files for divorce. Should the owner be angry at the Viper or the friend? Obviously, he should not be angry at the Viper. I think that we can all agree that that would be ridiculous.

Another example. Many of us are not happy with the current leadership of our beloved country. Does this mean we should be angry at the United States and go off and form our own country or does it mean that we should work toward electing better leadership in the upcoming elections in 2014 and 2016?


I have to wonder if the Regional votes were held again today and the above was made clear whether or not the voting outcome would be the same.

 

[CBR-ACR]

Brian,

You know how I feel about you and the Carolina Viper Club, as matter of fact you know that I have shared my high regards for you personally. To be honest, I cannot think of a single person I have met in 5 years owning Vipers that is more Viper dedicated (How about Vipercated , new word!) than you. My opinion has not wavered and will not change because of a choice in a car club, period.

I am disappointed that you may be underestimating our friendship or the support that I have shown to the CVC, which is NOT going to change for me. I am very capable of putting club choice differences aside for the betterment of the Viper nation, though I sense it will be difficult for some no matter what club they choose to join. I am also apologizing for the choice of words and the overall context of that sentence. It was not directed at you or our club, I made that VERY clear in my initial post, 5 days ago. But the point I guess I failed in making is directed at those that continue to be hostile, vile and negative and what appears to be an almost celebratory approach to wanting to see the VCA fail. I do in fact look forward to their departure and mostly that they will not have a need to continue to DISSECT any comment word by word that is provided to answer a question that was raised. I am saddened when the VCA leadership make an attempt to engage and respond to a question, it becomes a pond of Piranhas in which most have no clue what they are saying and get hung up on a single word. I sense you may have seen this as recent as yesterday. Like you and I, they all have day jobs and it obvious at times they may not have good composition skills, I think I am going to submit a suggestion that they need to add in the By-laws that future leadership should have better writing skills, just kidding. But with that said, they are making a sincere attempt to answer the questions and I personally respect that. I choose not to defend them in those forums as there is no winning, those battles, though I do enjoy a few of the loyalist that do and are very good at it as it provides good entertainment value.

You can see by my posts , I do not post much in the almost two years of my recent term of membership of the VCA, as you know it’s more about our CVC events and driving our cars and rarely ever out of our region. I refrain as much as I can from reading any other posts about the VCA in the other forums, there are a lot of people who appear to have an agenda to see the VCA fail, and I know YOU are NOT one of those as I do not think anyone in the CVC is. You and I both know, that with the spilt of the club, it’s not good for either club and it’s definitely not good for the Viper population. With the now infamous region by region vote to secede, the Region really doesn’t make that decision the members do, they choose by voting with their dollars where they want to participate. I want to make it clear that the Carolina Region that you have invested so much in is still alive and maybe not well but there is still life and it’s a good start. Again as noted in original posts, I wish our members success and happiness in the new club and I meant what I say.

Brian, I have loyalty to the VCA as I believe the needed reform is coming, please do not fault me for that. After hearing what you and Chris shared as well as some of the information I have read, I had to do research before making a club decision in which when I did it was an “informed” decision. I have personally reached out to the VCA Officers, a couple I have known and some I have never met including our current President. I am not condoning past actions, but I was very appreciative that they not only took my call but how much they care about the VCA and the work they are doing on the back side to improve and protect the VCA for the future. Unfortunately it took an almost implosion to get to this point, but there is definitely some positives coming from what has occurred in that past. I respect what they shared and if they fail to deliver, I can make another choice next year, it’s very easy.

Let me say that this is not a personal issue, for me it’s the right thing to do and I hope you understand. By the way, I don’t want to engage in a verbal “Battle of the Carolina’s” but if you want to discuss further and I sincerely welcome it, you know my number feel free to give me a call as I much would prefer to verbally discuss than type my thoughts as so many comments can just be taken out of context…….

By the way, I hope you will allow me to see your T/A when it is delivered as I will make a trip over for the just that reason, to see the baddest Viper in the Carolinas! I am over in your neck of the woods in about 11 days for two days on business and a meeting at the Capitol, lets grab lunch or dinner?

Shifting gears, they are calling for rain most of the day tomorrow, so I don’t think I will be heading out to the Charlotte Cars & Coffee.

All my best,
Chuck

 

[Brian GTS]

Chuck,

Thank you for the clarification regarding your feelings toward us. That comment was just a little hard for me to take no matter who it was directed toward….especially since you were one of the 90% who voted for us to secede from the VCA. Your absolutely entitled to change your mind, and we respected your final decision, but it just seemed to me you were speaking as though you were never with us in the decision....which was not the case.

Regardless, point taken, apology accepted, and I do not want this to spoil our friendship either. Yes, please let me know when you will be over in my neck of the woods and we can do lunch. That would be great.

Paul, I mentioned in my message above our reasons for seceding, but to provide additional details just off the top of my head:

1) Long delays in receiving membership dues….6 months late.
2) Letter from Chrysler regarding their dissociation with the VCA and conflict of interest with the Marshall’s involvement.
3) Loss of “cool” money from Chrysler which gets new Viper owners in the door of the VCA at no charge for the first year…which will affects new membership potential.
4) The slandering of Maurice Liang by remaining board members which was a total lack of respect. He was the founder of the VCA and one of the most Viper dedicated people I know. If it wasn’t for him, the VCA wouldn’t exist.
5) The restricted access to our region’s member list was a defensive action taken by the VCA that turned us off even prior to making the decision to secede.
6) The “splinter group” email letter bashing the board of the new club instead of proposing solutions for the VCA.
7) Other details that I cannot mention at the moment.

Finally, even if we forget about all of the above, these are the issues that are still present today and further backup our decision to secede:

1) LACK OF COMMUNICATION – Other than putting up their defenses, a comprehensive plan has not been announced by the board.
2) ByLaws – Where are they? What are they? Why have they taken months to develop?
3) Region Presidents are not in the loop as to the on goings with the club…too much behind closed doors.
4) Elections – Nearly 3 months have gone by and there are only a few weeks left in the year….what’s the plan?
5) No financial documentation as to the current state of the club and it’s association with VPA….transparency. Yes, I viewed the “transparency” document earlier this year, and it was a lot on the vague side.
6) I won’t mention names, but the house cleaning is not finished and the reluctance to do so is obvious and troublesome to many members.
7) An entirely new club has formed from the ground up, and VCA members are STILL waiting for some updates and progress from the VCA.

Is the VCA sitting around waiting to see who leaves and who stays instead of being proactive and trying to gain member confidence?

I don’t know about you guys, but I’m all into having fun with my Viper….but these long delays, ignorance, lack of information, lack of answers, and little communication are not helping the VCA. They are just reinforcing member’s decisions to move on to something else more promising.

 

[Paul Hawker]

Brian.

Thank you.

Paul

 

[Viper X]

Brian,

Let's start here by speaking to your concerns, recognizing that they are "off the top of your head":

1) Long delays in receiving membership dues….6 months late.

There was a delay in 2013. I was the one who mentioned this to all of our presidents during our first round of regional calls. However, 6 months late is a bit exaggerated and has been one of the VOA's talking points.

Here are the facts:

1 - As a regional president of So Cal during 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010, I checked my accounting system. It shows that we received the our membership dues from the period ending Dec 31 of the prior year as follows:

2007 was received 2.26.07
2008 was received 3.13.08
2009 was received 1.29.09
2010 was received 1.25.10

You received or should have received your dues payment from the end (usually last quarter) of 2012 in mid April 2013. This is not not close to the six months late that you stated.

Then there is the "why" part of this comment. Why were we late with our payments? If it was a lousy excuse, OK, we at the VCA should take the heat. If it was beyond our control, and it was, then some would now say that I'm criticizing others or "bashing". Not my intent. Just providing the facts.

First, Chrysler had some issues getting the Viper ready for sale in September as they had planned. While I know why, it's not relevant nor do I wish to broadcast this. Per our budget, we planned to begin our raffle at the end of 2012. This did not happen as there were no Vipers available. We did not wish to raffle another type of car or an older Viper. We were hopeful that the Dan Knott special edition Viper that was presented at VOI 13 in Charlotte would be our first raffle car, but it was never built. Bottom line, without pointing any fingers, we had trouble with the timing of getting a car allocated for our raffle, so we were late by about 30 days when compared to 2008 or about 80 days when compared with 2010.

2 - Letter from Chrysler regarding their dissociation with the VCA and conflict of interest with the Marshall’s involvement.

The letter from Chrysler stated no such disassociation with the VCA.

An excerpt from the the Mopar letter, sent to Lee Stubberfield states the following:

"In both meetings we made it clear that the management of the VCA should not be co-mingled with the management of the VPA “for profit” business. While on the surface this does not seem like an issue for VCA or VPA,it creates a potential conflict for Mopar in the management of our parts business. By having Coast to Coast (Chris and Mary Marshall) manage the day to day business of VCA, they are doing exactly what we do not support."

Clearly the issue was with the "potential conflict for Mopar in the management of our parts business".

The new *** inherited this issue and has been working to rectify it. As Coast to Coast (the Marshall's as you would call them) has resigned as our management company effective Dec 31, 13, the potential conflict should be removed.

Again this potential conflict was with Mopar. There has been no disassociation with the VCA that we are aware of.


Dan

 

[gutterworks129]

Well stated Brian.

Chuck,

Thank you for the clarification regarding your feelings toward us. That comment was just a little hard for me to take no matter who it was directed toward….especially since you were one of the 90% who voted for us to secede from the VCA. Your absolutely entitled to change your mind, and we respected your final decision, but it just seemed to me you were speaking as though you were never with us in the decision....which was not the case.

Regardless, point taken, apology accepted, and I do not want this to spoil our friendship either. Yes, please let me know when you will be over in my neck of the woods and we can do lunch. That would be great.

Paul, I mentioned in my message above our reasons for seceding, but to provide additional details just off the top of my head:

1) Long delays in receiving membership dues….6 months late.
2) Letter from Chrysler regarding their dissociation with the VCA and conflict of interest with the Marshall’s involvement.
3) Loss of “cool” money from Chrysler which gets new Viper owners in the door of the VCA at no charge for the first year…which will affects new membership potential.
4) The slandering of Maurice Liang by remaining board members which was a total lack of respect. He was the founder of the VCA and one of the most Viper dedicated people I know. If it wasn’t for him, the VCA wouldn’t exist.
5) The restricted access to our region’s member list was a defensive action taken by the VCA that turned us off even prior to making the decision to secede.
6) The “splinter group” email letter bashing the board of the new club instead of proposing solutions for the VCA.
7) Other details that I cannot mention at the moment.

Finally, even if we forget about all of the above, these are the issues that are still present today and further backup our decision to secede:

1) LACK OF COMMUNICATION – Other than putting up their defenses, a comprehensive plan has not been announced by the board.
2) ByLaws – Where are they? What are they? Why have they taken months to develop?
3) Region Presidents are not in the loop as to the on goings with the club…too much behind closed doors.
4) Elections – Nearly 3 months have gone by and there are only a few weeks left in the year….what’s the plan?
5) No financial documentation as to the current state of the club and it’s association with VPA….transparency. Yes, I viewed the “transparency” document earlier this year, and it was a lot on the vague side.
6) I won’t mention names, but the house cleaning is not finished and the reluctance to do so is obvious and troublesome to many members.
7) An entirely new club has formed from the ground up, and VCA members are STILL waiting for some updates and progress from the VCA.

Is the VCA sitting around waiting to see who leaves and who stays instead of being proactive and trying to gain member confidence?

I don’t know about you guys, but I’m all into having fun with my Viper….but these long delays, ignorance, lack of information, lack of answers, and little communication are not helping the VCA. They are just reinforcing member’s decisions to move on to something else more promising.

 

[Brian GTS]

I'm sorry, to clarify, I'm not talking about the renewals through the end of 2012. I'm talking about membership renewals from January 2013. We didn't receive those until sometime during the summer...

As for your remaining comments, there are still inaccuracies, but I have grown tired if pi$$ing into the wind, and it really does not matter at this point. I'm going to move on and direct my focus toward getting things aligned for our region in 2014. It is a d@mn shame this all had to happen. But in the end, we all have the same passion....to enjoy our cars together.

 

[johniew398]

Brian,

Let's start here by speaking to your concerns, recognizing that they are "off the top of your head":

1) Long delays in receiving membership dues….6 months late.

There was a delay in 2013. I was the one who mentioned this to all of our presidents during our first round of regional calls. However, 6 months late is a bit exaggerated and has been one of the VOA's talking points.

Here are the facts:...

2 - Letter from Chrysler regarding their dissociation with the VCA and conflict of interest with the Marshall’s involvement.

The letter from Chrysler stated no such disassociation with the VCA.

... There has been no disassociation with the VCA that we are aware of.


Dan

[/COLOR]

The letter may not have said they wanted to disassociate themselves from the VCA; however, there was no secret that at SRT events they wouldn't let the club fly the VCA banner. And from what I heard some of the SRT staff at those events made it no secret they wished to not having anything to do with the club.

 

[Bobpantax]

It is important to keep in mind that Fiat, Chrysler and SRT are not one entity. Fiat is the mother ship. Chrysler is a partially owned subsidiary. SRT is a recently launched Brand with a small budget.

There may have been some acting out by people at some events as you noted. Since then, I would hope that Chrysler Communication and Chrysler legal would have instructed all concerned to stay above the fray and treat all clubs equally. That is the smart and prudent thing to do and what any Fiat investor wants to see.

I note that the SRT had a Facebook chat recently that was not affiliated with a specific club. This suggests that a lesson may have been learned about being too close and too involved in a car club's affairs. If so, good for them. It's the right decision and allows more time to be spent on internal matters pertinent to SRT products.

The letter may not have said they wanted to disassociate themselves from the VCA; however, there was no secret that at SRT events they wouldn't let the club fly the VCA banner. And from what I heard some of the SRT staff at those events made it no secret they wished to not having anything to do with the club.

 

[3whitevipers]

Johniew398--
I find the thought amusing that SRT will have nothing to do with the VCA, because Dick Winkles is attending the North Fl VCA Chapter Christmas Party on Dec 28th here in Sarasota at the Sarasota Classic Car Museum. Invitations have been extended to all VCA Florida members. Any other VCA member who may be in the area is also invited. Dick will be giving an hour long presentation either before or after dinner. If any VCA member would like to come PM me and I'll get you in touch with Cathy Smiley--North Florida VCA President-- for further details. Isn't it hell when facts are inconvenient--Dave

 

[Paul Hawker]

Specifically, only Ralph has made it pretty clear that he does not like VCA. He is a very close personal friend of Maurice who is in charge of the new VOA Club. Most of the other members of SRT say nothing but good things about the VCA. For years we have done events with them. Every other year we even were invited to send a team of our fastest owners to go to Detroit to challenge their best members. While they usually won, the bonds that were forged between some of the most loyal Viper owners and the manufacturer were deep and solid.

They always showed up at our events to tell us the latest happenings at "Team Viper" They explained how they were proud to becoming their own brand, and appreciated that so many VCA members owned not only multiple Vipers, but also multiple Chrysler and other SRT vehicles.

It is a shame that so many people are trying to drive a wedge between the owners and the manufacturer. It is evident to most that Viper sales are not reaching projections, and that many are holding off buying to see if SRT will be continuing to support our club.

We do not care if they support other clubs as well. That would be a smart thing to do, but like a parent that shows favoritism to only one child, it results in a dysfunctional family.

 

[MoparBoyy]

Specifically, only Ralph has made it pretty clear that he does not like VCA. He is a very close personal friend of Maurice who is in charge of the new VOA Club. Most of the other members of SRT say nothing but good things about the VCA. For years we have done events with them. Every other year we even were invited to send a team of our fastest owners to go to Detroit to challenge their best members. While they usually won, the bonds that were forged between some of the most loyal Viper owners and the manufacturer were deep and solid.

They always showed up at our events to tell us the latest happenings at "Team Viper" They explained how they were proud to becoming their own brand, and appreciated that so many VCA members owned not only multiple Vipers, but also multiple Chrysler and other SRT vehicles.

It is a shame that so many people are trying to drive a wedge between the owners and the manufacturer. It is evident to most that Viper sales are not reaching projections, and that many are holding off buying to see if SRT will be continuing to support our club.

We do not care if they support other clubs as well. That would be a smart thing to do, but like a parent that shows favoritism to only one child, it results in a dysfunctional family.

Wow, lies, lies, spin, lies and spin. come on man.

When has Ralph EVER said he hated VCA?.. show me.. prove me wrong. He didn't like the politics going on with the club and how the VCA was spinning it. Then VCA goes and attacks Ralph personally. We've seen the letter sent to Sergio. Then there is a new one on the Alley right now, just got posted today in fact!.

http://www.viperalley.com/forum/viper-discussions-gen-v/141602-viper-club-america-viper.html#

 

[GRANGER73]

Wow!!!!! What the hell was that about. Is that a factual letter? Speaks volumes to the attitude of the board and the National President in particular. Who the hell does Ralph Gilles think he is? Unbelievable!!