I am ready to do a full Ballanger set up (headers cat back )on my 08.A certain tuner is marketing a headpackage on the 08s (flows, ports ,polishes installs bigger valves for 5500.00) where as he claims 775 total horsepower (heads headers exhaust ).I can get the guy who did my Mopar Street strip heads on my Gen 2 to do the same (thousands less)but will it throw a code
Ported heads on my 08
- Thread starter 1BADGTS
- Start date
adamlotus
Enthusiast
i doubt you can get 175 hp with just exhaust and head package,maybe 75 imo.if i remeber factory stated engine was at max horsepower anything internally may give.i would go just belanger exhaustpackage and 355 gears.
I was trying to figure out the same thing .Ballenger claims Headers ,Cat back is worth 50 at the tire =590 TOTAL .What is a set of ported big valve heads worth on top of the 590 .More importantly will it cause a che light.
In the past Dan Crower from Crower Motersport (son of Dave who owns Crower Cams) has done all my head work .(I would get the valves custom made -Manley Severe Duty from Manley at a great price thru the mag guys)Crower always did me right (-my old GTS would run 132 MPH trap speeds NA on stock Pilots.)if i remember correctly 7-8 years ago he charged me approx 1800.00 to port ,polish ,flow and install (hi perf valve job )bigger valves in the upgraded Mopar -Street Strip Heads i was using (now discontinued )
rcl4668
Enthusiast
I think the bigger concern would be the CEL/codes being thrown. The 2008 is even more susceptible to codes because of the new engine management/ECU programming. I would call Lou Belanger directly and get his input as he is one of the few people outside of Chrsyler to have some real world experience with the new ECU setup.
/Rich
adamlotus
Enthusiast
i was at dc dyno day and an 08 with belangers put down i think 567 rwhp and i did 515 stock so awsome gain from exhaust package.
Malu59RT
Enthusiast
There is a tuner in Houston that's built 1 Twin Turbo 2008 Viper, but I haven't seen any posts from him regarding the car. I saw the photos of the build a while back, and he is rumored to also have built a 2008 Stroker. But from what I remember when speaking to them about their headers, a CEL was triggered. They didn't seem to be worried about the CEL though. 1BadGTS, is this the same tuner?
Grant
Viper Owner
I would imagine there is as much to be gained from a cam swap as there is in new heads? Might have to ditch the variable LSA system, though...
Does anyone know the specs on the stock cam in the '08s?
Does anyone know the specs on the stock cam in the '08s?
The throwing of a code is my chief concern
I think it is, so basically who knows what to believe.I am wondering if anyone has any first hand experience.
Excellent gain.I heard they picked up around 50 (even more when the computer has time to adjust.)
There is a post in one of the forums recently from a guy who is running a 150 shot of nitrous on his 08. He mentioned the car put up big numbers but the problem is the computer tries to restrict the torque level to the wheels between shifts and to do so, closes the throttle bodies. I hate the thought of drive-by-wire.
Link:
http://forums.viperclub.org/dyno-results/613726-08-viper-headers-150-shot-nitrous.html
Link:
http://forums.viperclub.org/dyno-results/613726-08-viper-headers-150-shot-nitrous.html
mjorgensen Woodhouse
Enthusiast
I would LOVE to see this proven but have serious doubts this is anything but speculation. I also thought the twin turbo car was actually a Gen 3 motor transplant.
I pm'd the gentleman who was having the issue. Hopefully he will join this thread and fill us in.
Shandon
Enthusiast
How is it I keep hearing the 08 is at its limit? Seriously the Paxton blows the 08 out of the water on the 03-06 and seems to have no ill effect on the Gen3 engine/trainy? Is the "limit" everyone mentions just the PCM & Cam and Drive by wire etc. problem or is this engine truly strained at a mere 600hp. I thought the 08 engine was actaully a stronger engine than the 03-06? Maybe I need to read some more threads?
Malu59RT
Enthusiast
Mark, the photos of the car I saw had the 08 Intake Manifold installed on it. I was thinking they could have swapped the motor, or went with an aftermarket ECU, but since no details have been published, it's just a wild guess.
Jason
adamlotus
Enthusiast
i think i read somewhere that the piston and connecting rods are from the 6.1 hemi and are diffrent from the 8.3 viper.How is it I keep hearing the 08 is at its limit? Seriously the Paxton blows the 08 out of the water on the 03-06 and seems to have no ill effect on the Gen3 engine/trainy? Is the "limit" everyone mentions just the PCM & Cam and Drive by wire etc. problem or is this engine truly strained at a mere 600hp. I thought the 08 engine was actaully a stronger engine than the 03-06? Maybe I need to read some more threads?
How is it I keep hearing the 08 is at its limit? Seriously the Paxton blows the 08 out of the water on the 03-06 and seems to have no ill effect on the Gen3 engine/trainy? Is the "limit" everyone mentions just the PCM & Cam and Drive by wire etc. problem or is this engine truly strained at a mere 600hp. I thought the 08 engine was actaully a stronger engine than the 03-06? Maybe I need to read some more threads?
A stock boosted Paxton car (no other mods -what the kit was intended for) is approx 625 to the tire.An 08 with headers ,exhaust is approx 600 to the tire. Look at the trap speeds of both a STOCK Paxton car is not trapping much higher than 132 MPH .In either case should you decide to go above this it is a game of Russian Rolutte with a major factor being the intended use of the car (how hard and how hot the car is being run ).
I am right with you here on this one Mark (i always consider the source..The source in this cause is marketing this as an engine package -with no check engines lights ect).Iam extremely doubtful how the new computer would or could react to the increased airflow brought about by the head work.
Shandon
Enthusiast
I guess I was under the assumption that they SRT Engineers would have put as much upward potential or CYA grace into the engine that they did with the GEN3? In other words a gen3 that can be taken from 510 - 700hp and still be reliable if the same was true of the 08 it should be able to be taken to 800hp+/- had the engine been given the same upward potential. I cann't imagine the lawyers and bean counters not twisting the engine designers into giving as much strength if for nothing more than reliability and not having to replace pistons? I am probably wrong but thats my .02 on it
From what i understand the quality of the componets in the bottom end of the GEN 3 AND 4S are about the same (neither was meant to go much above 600 hp .)Once again 8 out of ten people may do this(mods over 650 hp ) and have no problem at all (intended use factor )the other 2 could need a whole new engine.
The bean counters are saying as cheap as possible.The engine is rated at 600 hp from the factory.The parts in it are designed for that.It is not our problem(DODGE) should someone do an add on power adder above that and something goes as evidenced by the fact that if any internal mods are done (including a blower )say goodbye to the total factory warranty.
MKB96Viper
Viper Owner
Hey Guys,
Apparently there is a built in torque value inside the ECU that these cars cannot exceed. We added juice and in one specific gear it will dyno and run fine. As soon as you change gears "apparently" the stock ECU sees the torque value and begins to close the electronic T/B's. If you start in any gear and let the nitrous hit she works fine. Its only slowing the car down when you change gears and the stock ECU sees that spike in torque value. We are trying to work around it and will advise as soon as we can. Sure wish there was a tuner out there that could crack this thing. Sure would save us a lot of trouble.
If any of you have suggestions I am wide open.
Thanks,
Keith
Apparently there is a built in torque value inside the ECU that these cars cannot exceed. We added juice and in one specific gear it will dyno and run fine. As soon as you change gears "apparently" the stock ECU sees the torque value and begins to close the electronic T/B's. If you start in any gear and let the nitrous hit she works fine. Its only slowing the car down when you change gears and the stock ECU sees that spike in torque value. We are trying to work around it and will advise as soon as we can. Sure wish there was a tuner out there that could crack this thing. Sure would save us a lot of trouble.
If any of you have suggestions I am wide open.
Thanks,
Keith
Roadrunner
Viper Owner
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What code was setting due to the nitrous blast? Is it a torque error or a sensor going out of range due to pumping nitrous into the manifold behind the MAF sensors?
Knowing the code code point the way to a fix.
Knowing the code code point the way to a fix.
MKB96Viper
Viper Owner
Honestly, its not throwing a code. We aren't even getting a check engine light. Its driving us crazy.
The nitrous comes in full blown in 1st gear then as soon as you change gears you can feel the car slowing down or holding back. Track times actually slow down when trying to run nitrous. Just shoot us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The nitrous comes in full blown in 1st gear then as soon as you change gears you can feel the car slowing down or holding back. Track times actually slow down when trying to run nitrous. Just shoot us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
mjorgensen Woodhouse
Enthusiast
More than likely the factory is limiting this to protect their transmissions and diffs from "warranty" costs. Remember things the factories put out are suppose to have a lifetime of use just like other cars can achieve. Can't really blame them and plus it is a way to police the "add ons" that may create more warranty claims than not.
chimazo
Enthusiast
GM cars have TM (torque management) that can be tuned out. Unfortunately, HP Tuners hasn't brought (or was unable to bring) out an excellent tuning software package for Mopar, at least last I heard.
Does anyone know if the SCT software can get rid of TM?
Does anyone know if the SCT software can get rid of TM?
