Ported Intake Gen 4

[TrackAire]

Looking good Nader, Show & Go!!

Cheers,
George

Mine prior to mounting....



I am running stock genIV heads and mild cam on an GenIII stock bottom end. Well that is the short story....

 

[TrackAire]

Aaron,

Cars running strong, I'll update on event in a bit.

Cheers,
George

 

[TrackAire]

Dear George (TrackAire),

Please keep us posted about that event you had planned on attending, I believe that will be a huge indicator of the power upgrades you received!

Regards,
Aaron

Hey Aaron,

It's a little tough talking about this but we were not allowed to run the car. It was a private mile meet at the Mojave runway put on primarily by the Ford GT guys in the California area. A few of my friends own FGT's and I was invited to the event. Since I was short on time, I gave BBG a list of mods that I wanted finished and Toddy promised the car would be done 5 days before the event (my request, I don't like doing things at the last minute when going near 200 mph). Toddy was true to his word and the car was done Monday one week ago today. Mods included new R-6 Hoosiers, new wheels, mounting and balancing, special alignment, new ACR KW suspension, ported intake, Venom controller, setting ride height, modified trans with lower 5th and 6th gear, checking the clutch, ACR-X exhaust system, cat delete and some other stuff I'm sure I'm missing. I also wanted to be able to put at least 200 miles on the car to break in the new trans and make sure there were no issues. Fortunately for me the work BBG turned out was perfect and the car is running freaking great.

We left last Friday for tech inspection in a caravan of 6 Ford GT's and me (I towed my rig down, all the FGT drove down!!....******** guys). The car passed tech and we arrived Saturday morning for the event. Long story short, only a couple of cars were able to run and the runway was shut down due to a large amount of unexpected planes and then a radar failure problem....they had to keep the runway empty to allow any plane to make an emergency landing (like a full airliner)....by 1:00 they figured it was a lost cause and we were told we could come back on Sunday to try again.

Fast forward to Sunday, everything seemed just perfect. We were lined up as the second group of about 8 cars to go out (there were only about 20 cars running on Sunday). The cars started running and all seemed normal. My group went to the starting line and I was 3 cars from going out. Then the radio crackled "car off course". We looked down towards the end of the runway and could see a very large dust cloud at the end of the runway. What was weird was the car went off at the end of the runway....not what we were expecting since this runway had a very long runoff area to get slowed down. As we exited our cars and were trying to figure out how bad it was we could then see black smoke, the car had burst into flames. It was a Ford GT and the drivers name was Jack. As soon as we saw the fire (actually smoke from our end, we were too far to even see the car the runway is so long) we knew it was not good. Unfortunately the driver died. I cannot confirm this, but we were told the car held up fine (even after flying through the air and tumbling) the driver was still strapped in and removed before the fire started and CPR was started. Jack had crossed the mile market at nearly 201 mph. From what I was told he also had did the Mojave mile last year and his goal was getting into the 200's this year. Another FGT ran 221 mph just a few runs earlier.

It is my opinion that the driver suffered some sort of medical issue. Because of the extra long length of the runway after the mile marker, getting to a stop should not have been an issue. It just did not make sense. I'm sure the medical examiners might be able to shed some light onto this but who knows if we'll find out. I'm not an EMT, but when I didn't see a medivac helicopter coming in, I knew it was going to be bad news.

As soon as it was confirmed that there was a fatality (CHP was already on the scene) the organizers cancelled the event. 90% of us did not get a chance to run. I've got to tell you that it really was heart wrenching to hear that Jack had died. We were all shocked and many of the wives and girlfriends there were very shaken up. My son was at the mile marker waiting to film my run and caught the last glimpse of the FGT as it started to tumble but lost sight due to the dust cloud after just the first revolution. With his telephoto lense he could see flames that he estimated were at least 15' high. Of all the drivers I met and hung out with, I didn't get to really meet Jack....which considering the circumstances was probably a good thing because I'm still very sad from yesterday and I didn't even know the man.


RIP Jack.

 

[highsierrahillbilly]

Definately a good mod,

We at Vipair have done a few 08-10 manifold port jobs and it is a relatively straight forward job, we do ours to the same spec as the Arrow manifolds.

Arrow did it first and I think that is what Mark Jorgenson had on his car.

A pretty port job is not always the best so pics of a port job don't always tell the whole story.

Quack, Quack,

Intersting how one can critizise high quality work and then pitch someone elses work as their own. I think Arrow Racing's owner Lee Carducci and head engine builder Todd Claucherty might not approve when made aware of this situation. Todd at Arrow Racing has always been extremely helpful with everyone in the Viper community giving us all the best information and advice when needed knowing at times we're having the work done somewhere else. Arrow's one of the best resources for us VCA members and do we really want to support for lack of a better word, ripping them off? And mentioning Mark Jorgenson who bends over backwards helping us as well to validate a product? Quality, proven machine work always looks good and the few fine examples shown here prove it!


Just like the Lemke situation and many others, here we go again, if it quacks like a duck, woddles like a duck and looks like a duck, it's probably true.

Again I hope I don't get sanctioned by the moderators by voicing my opinion, but there are alot of good vendors here on this site who have had to close their doors do to hard ecomomic times, those who are still servicing the Viper community and others who are forging ahead building new products for our Vipers new and old. Support who you want it's a free country, but remember when you call these vendors for that free advice, they're giving you years of learned experience and knowledge, not reading the instructions off someone elses box!


Tim

 

[GTS-R 001]

Quack, Quack,

Intersting how one can critizise high quality work and then pitch someone elses work as their own. I think Arrow Racing's owner Lee Carducci and head engine builder Todd Claucherty might not approve when made aware of this situation. Todd at Arrow Racing has always been extremely helpful with everyone in the Viper community giving us all the best information and advice when needed knowing at times we're having the work done somewhere else. Arrow's one of the best resources for us VCA members and do we really want to support for lack of a better word, ripping them off? And mentioning Mark Jorgenson who bends over backwards helping us as well to validate a product? Quality, proven machine work always looks good and the few fine examples shown here prove it!


Just like the Lemke situation and many others, here we go again, if it quacks like a duck, woddles like a duck and looks like a duck, it's probably true.

Again I hope I don't get sanctioned by the moderators by voicing my opinion, but there are alot of good vendors here on this site who have had to close their doors do to hard ecomomic times, those who are still servicing the Viper community and others who are forging ahead building new products for our Vipers new and old. Support who you want it's a free country, but remember when you call these vendors for that free advice, they're giving you years of learned experience and knowledge, not reading the instructions off someone elses box!


Tim

Hillbilly,

I do not see where I criticized anybody's work,

More people than your favorite vendor are able to port a manifold and in my opinion the ones done by Arrow are the best, that is why I looked at theirs as the standard to meet versus your favorite guy's. The 08-10 manifolds have areas where you do not want to over port, which I do not and Arrow did/does not. (I can tell from looking at pictures of their porting jobs, can you?) You do not want to over port a manifold as it will weaken it and a crack in a manifold will not imporve performance.

According to your "Logic" then anyone who ported a manifold for an 08-10 is ripping off Arrow as they did it first and proved that it made power, please contact Todd you hillbilly and see what he has to say

First was Arrow, then DC, then others got into the manifold porting business

Check your facts...

The good vendor that just went out of business recently , DC Performance, was paid more dollars by me than most every other customer they ever had. I personally spent well over $150,000 with DC performance, you can call Dan to verify this FACT. If anything I supported him more than most. Check your facts...

I have been a site sponsor on this site since 2005, check your facts...

I have donated well over $50,000.00 in parts to the ViperClub of America in the past couple of years. How much has your favorite vendor donated??? And I am not talking about advertising dollars spent, I am talking DONATION. Check your facts...

Look at the Ohio Auction going on this weekend, at least 5 of the 29 items are ones DONATED by me, not contingently sponsored whereby I benefit in some way, DONATED, not even a tax cert asked for or given. Check your facts...

TIME FOR YOU TO CHECK YOUR FACTS BEFORE YOU PUT MORE FEET IN YOUR MOUTH THAN YOU CAN HANDLE

 

[Viper X]

Hey George,

Embarrassingly, I've never posted any pics on this board and probably need to learn how.

FYI, my Arrow ported lower intake looks very similar to the one you posted pics of.

On the catch can, thanks to Mike for posting his photos of my set up.

Will you be attending VOI 12 in Charlotte, NC this fall?

Dan

 

[AFL in NJ]

Dear GTS-R 001,

I don't think anyone questioned your generosity nor your support of DC Performance, we all will miss the time until he's back actively tuning the cars we love.

My question is I believe the same as a few others, did you get permission from Arrow to utilize their lower manifold design, or is your design unique? The second question was I don't understand the over-porting assertion....wouldn't over porting neccessitate having to weld an area where too much was ported?

Regards,
Aaron

 

[AFL in NJ]

Dear Mike,

Mike, great post on the catch can! I hope they make that info a .pdf and post it to the how-to section.


Regards,
Aaron

 

[AFL in NJ]

Dear George,

Thank-you for sharing about that event, sorry you didn't get to run, I will be very interested when you get an opportunity to open up your gorgeous '09!! I hope you're at an event soon, your car with those mods must be an absolute beast!

RIP Jack....that is a shame that anyone perished; but honestly, if I ever got a terminal illness, I'd rather find out if my ACR will truly do 192 mph and no one else gets hurt while I find out.

Regards,
Aaron

 

[GTS-R 001]

Dear GTS-R 001,

I don't think anyone questioned your generosity nor your support of DC Performance, we all will miss the time until he's back actively tuning the cars we love.

My question is I believe the same as a few others, did you get permission from Arrow to utilize their lower manifold design, or is your design unique? The second question was I don't understand the over-porting assertion....wouldn't over porting neccessitate having to weld an area where too much was ported?

Regards,
Aaron

Hi Aaron,

Been a while since we sat together at VOI for the big presentation dinner.

What I meant by the port job by Arrow is that they did not over do it.

They did not port all the way down the runners as that could cause the manifold to not flow properly into the head. They also did not remove excess material at the bottom of the entrance to the runners, this is the thin spot that should be avoided porting too much as some do (in my opinion)

I did not scan their manifold and copy it, I looked at their job just as Dan at DC did when he decided to port manifolds and figured he could improve upon Arrows work. I did not need Arrow's permission to port a manifold, just as Dan at DC Performance didn't need their permission and nobody else needed or got their permission either and I doubt anyone else asked for it or received it either.

I port all my manifolds by hand not by machine, the key to porting a Gen 4 manifold is cleaning up the turbulent edges at the entry to the runners and cleaning out the little casting imperfections in the runners no more.

The jump to the assumption that I have ripped off Arrow is absurd and shows just how malicious "the Crew" is in the twisting crap around. I am surprised that you are falling for their rhetoric.

Here are some pics of an Arrow ported manifold

Not all pretty, but damn functional and resulted in a lot of horsepower gain as proven on a dyno, not in a staged picture on a bench








Here are some pics of one of my ported intakes, sorry they are so grainy but I was not making an ad for someone out of my pics







If anyone wants to know how to port a Gen 4 manifold or what tools they would need to do so, i would be happy to answer any questions and give advice. I did so remotely for a customer in Canada and he is very happy with his results

 

[AFL in NJ]

Dear GTS-R 001,

I remember lending my power steering cap to a guy who owned both '96 GTS 0001 and '98 GTS-R 0001, was that you? That was at VOI X.

I am not generally someone to fall for rhetoric, it just seems odd that with the knockoff ACR-X header thing in the past, that Arrow's ported lower manifold comes up as a reference point for a few vendor's work....no accusations, nothing implied, but I'm trying to navigate through the thread as I read and learn. Since I don't have an '08-'10 its not reasonable that my opinion accounts for jack anyway.

I would love if Arrow had a West Coast licensee however.

Regards,
Aaron

 

[GTS-R 001]

Dear GTS-R 001,

I remember lending my power steering cap to a guy who owned both '96 GTS 0001 and '98 GTS-R 0001, was that you? That was at VOI X.

I am not generally someone to fall for rhetoric, it just seems odd that with the knockoff ACR-X header thing in the past, that Arrow's ported lower manifold comes up as a reference point for a few vendor's work....no accusations, nothing implied, but I'm trying to navigate through the thread as I read and learn. Since I don't have an '08-'10 its not reasonable that my opinion accounts for jack anyway.

I would love if Arrow had a West Coast licensee however.

Regards,
Aaron

That guy you lent the cap to bought both those cars from me, a rattle snake even showed up at the house that day to see them off (along with his head and rattler), I was the Norcal guy that sat next to you at the intro dinner at the latest VOI.

Yes, I remember the ACR-X header thread, I made some superior headers and the OP went ballistic because of the better quality welds, straighter flanges and higher quality materials and a lower price. The originator of that thread tried to post some other pics of other inner flange welds from some chinese made SVSI style headers and claim those were from one of the sets I made.

In fact Hillbilly there started poaching all my threads on this site right after one of the 3 sets of Gen 4 headers I had made came up for sale a month or two ago and said he did so after talking with a certain Norcal vendor.

 

[AFL in NJ]

Dear GTS-R 0001,

Those were awesome cars!! I couldn't believe when I met that guy at Detroit (VOI X) that he had both, let alone that you had both of them before he did. Rumor has it he sold them both again.

I'll try and remember back to VOI XI at the intro dinner, usually I'm good at remembering faces to names....of course I'm much better when its pretty single woman rather than a guy. (no offense)

Regards,
Aaron

 

[GTS-R 001]

Dear GTS-R 0001,

Those were awesome cars!! I couldn't believe when I met that guy at Detroit (VOI X) that he had both, let alone that you had both of them before he did. Rumor has it he sold them both again.

I'll try and remember back to VOI XI at the intro dinner, usually I'm good at remembering faces to names....of course I'm much better when its pretty single woman rather than a guy. (no offense)

Regards,
Aaron

Divorce will make make a guy sell anything he has to to survive. The guy originally sold his Sassy ass green 71 Hemi Cuda convertible for $900K plus, then he bought a couple of my collector Vipers 001 and 001 98 GT2 and 96 GTS, he bought a brand new 2 car trailer and a nice Dodge diesel Dually to haul them , he called me a couple of years later and offered all 4 for $100K less than he paid for just the cars but that was not a good year to buy or sell collector cars, last I heard he sold GT2 001 to a guy in Sweden and he was keeping the GTS

I was the guy without the Jersey accent, LOL

 

[shooter_t1]

Steve,
What is the pricing on your ported gen 4 intakes. If you are not allowed to post it here, even though I am asking, then please PM me.

thanks,
Robert

 

[TrackAire]

Hey George,

Embarrassingly, I've never posted any pics on this board and probably need to learn how.

FYI, my Arrow ported lower intake looks very similar to the one you posted pics of.

On the catch can, thanks to Mike for posting his photos of my set up.

Will you be attending VOI 12 in Charlotte, NC this fall?

Dan

Hi Dan,

Yes I plan to be at VOI and about 80% sure I'll be shipping the car back. Can't take the time off to drive back, so if the car goes it'll be getting shippped. Getting onto the 4 lane dragstrip is a bucket list check off item for sure. But, I'd definately leave my Viper home if SRT could promise me a day or two in the new Gen 5!!



Cheers,
George

 

[GTS-R 001]

Steve,
What is the pricing on your ported gen 4 intakes. If you are not allowed to post it here, even though I am asking, then please PM me.

thanks,
Robert

Hi Robert for informational purposes only (not trying to sell any in this thread),

My first few I charged the same as everyone else, approx $1200 but now that I have it down to a science I charge $895.00

 

[BAD BOYZZ GARAGE]

Hey Aaron,

It's a little tough talking about this but we were not allowed to run the car. It was a private mile meet at the Mojave runway put on primarily by the Ford GT guys in the California area. A few of my friends own FGT's and I was invited to the event. Since I was short on time, I gave BBG a list of mods that I wanted finished and Toddy promised the car would be done 5 days before the event (my request, I don't like doing things at the last minute when going near 200 mph). Toddy was true to his word and the car was done Monday one week ago today. Mods included new R-6 Hoosiers, new wheels, mounting and balancing, special alignment, new ACR KW suspension, ported intake, Venom controller, setting ride height, modified trans with lower 5th and 6th gear, checking the clutch, ACR-X exhaust system, cat delete and some other stuff I'm sure I'm missing. I also wanted to be able to put at least 200 miles on the car to break in the new trans and make sure there were no issues. Fortunately for me the work BBG turned out was perfect and the car is running freaking great.

We left last Friday for tech inspection in a caravan of 6 Ford GT's and me (I towed my rig down, all the FGT drove down!!....******** guys). The car passed tech and we arrived Saturday morning for the event. Long story short, only a couple of cars were able to run and the runway was shut down due to a large amount of unexpected planes and then a radar failure problem....they had to keep the runway empty to allow any plane to make an emergency landing (like a full airliner)....by 1:00 they figured it was a lost cause and we were told we could come back on Sunday to try again.

Fast forward to Sunday, everything seemed just perfect. We were lined up as the second group of about 8 cars to go out (there were only about 20 cars running on Sunday). The cars started running and all seemed normal. My group went to the starting line and I was 3 cars from going out. Then the radio crackled "car off course". We looked down towards the end of the runway and could see a very large dust cloud at the end of the runway. What was weird was the car went off at the end of the runway....not what we were expecting since this runway had a very long runoff area to get slowed down. As we exited our cars and were trying to figure out how bad it was we could then see black smoke, the car had burst into flames. It was a Ford GT and the drivers name was Jack. As soon as we saw the fire (actually smoke from our end, we were too far to even see the car the runway is so long) we knew it was not good. Unfortunately the driver died. I cannot confirm this, but we were told the car held up fine (even after flying through the air and tumbling) the driver was still strapped in and removed before the fire started and CPR was started. Jack had crossed the mile market at nearly 201 mph. From what I was told he also had did the Mojave mile last year and his goal was getting into the 200's this year. Another FGT ran 221 mph just a few runs earlier.

It is my opinion that the driver suffered some sort of medical issue. Because of the extra long length of the runway after the mile marker, getting to a stop should not have been an issue. It just did not make sense. I'm sure the medical examiners might be able to shed some light onto this but who knows if we'll find out. I'm not an EMT, but when I didn't see a medivac helicopter coming in, I knew it was going to be bad news.

As soon as it was confirmed that there was a fatality (CHP was already on the scene) the organizers cancelled the event. 90% of us did not get a chance to run. I've got to tell you that it really was heart wrenching to hear that Jack had died. We were all shocked and many of the wives and girlfriends there were very shaken up. My son was at the mile marker waiting to film my run and caught the last glimpse of the FGT as it started to tumble but lost sight due to the dust cloud after just the first revolution. With his telephoto lense he could see flames that he estimated were at least 15' high. Of all the drivers I met and hung out with, I didn't get to really meet Jack....which considering the circumstances was probably a good thing because I'm still very sad from yesterday and I didn't even know the man.


RIP Jack.

That's crazy George, I feel for Jack and his family. I'm glad your satisfied with your build, it turned out good. Bring your Snake by the garage and I'll re-set your suspension to turn left and right. I appreciate my clients that posted, but must say this thread did get a bit strange with others..

Well I think Treesnake say's it best! "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "wow...what a ride!" RIP Jack..



BAD BOYZZ GARAGE, INC.
Toddy

=DISTRIBUTORS OF POWER=

 

[challenger&viper]

Any dyno numbers for BBG ( Acrx headers ) with ported head and intake?. I heard BBG headers give more hp at top end.

Most dyno #s I have seen done using balenger. So where are the ones with Acrx ??

 

[Dan Cragin]

We did quite a bit of testing on the Gen 4 manifolds, we tried numerous things including welding, reshaping the ports and shortening the runner length. We dyno tested all these options and found a point of diminishing returns. There was a point were we gained hp and lost torque. The biggest changes where in the inlet of the port, realigning the ports and changing the port volume. Of the 36 manifolds we did, We saw hp gains from 12-24hp with the high number most likely an anomoley. With the stock valve size and rocker ratio we saw another 25hp from porting the heads. Small increases in compression gave another 10hp but required 93 octane fuel min.

Hope this helps.