Possible 2015 Power Increase

[Bobpantax]

Read the blurb here: http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/futur...?src=soc_fcbks

If true, it is interesting. It suggests a new calibration that, in addition to producing a small increase in peak flywheel HP, probably produces a more significant power increase under the curve in the mid range. I would guess maybe 30 HP or so. That would be consistent with the kind of safe and durable tweak that Dick Winkles might create and feel comfortable with and we know that there has been alot of experimenting going on involving the Gen V controller based on Mark J's thread from the spring discussing the possibility of an offroad controller.

So anyone who disses the 5 HP increase mentioned in the story does not have their thinking cap on.

 

[sunsalem]

Read the blurb here: http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/futur...?src=soc_fcbks

If true, it is interesting. It suggests a new calibration that, in addition to producing a small increase in peak flywheel HP, probably produces a more significant power increase under the curve in the mid range. I would guess maybe 30 HP or so. That would be consistent with the kind of safe and durable tweak that Dick Winkles might create and feel comfortable with and we know that there has been alot of experimenting going on involving the Gen V controller based on Mark J's thread from the spring discussing the possibility of an offroad controller.

So anyone who disses the 5 HP increase mentioned in the story does not have their thinking cap on.

I'll keep that in mind...

 

[NHL2133]

If it is a matter of a new computer calibration I hope Dodge offers a re-flash to current Gen V owners at no charge, a la McLaren with the MP4-12C.

 

[Nsane1]

Sorry Bob, I'm dissing it. Every SRT product got a 5 hp boost in 15. So either they bought a different dyno machine, or they changed the calculation, or each product got the same "code" change. But as a person who doesn't believe in coincidences, I don't think this boost has anything to do with the viper.

Please don't take this as a dis of the viper, it's still the baddest car on the planet, but I'm not going to get excited about this. When I bought my 15 SRT jeep, and mentioned the 5 extra HP to the salesperson he said: "suuuurrrre it has an extra 5 hp."

The SRT lineup for 15 got pretty much ignored from what I see (outside of the hellcat).

 

[FLL-B/W-GTS]

Have to say,good shot at the spin on 5 Hp... 5 Hp,is a joke and insult on what people are asking for..... No Wow factor(Hellcat) at all for the Viper.....

 

[Bobpantax]

OK dissers. Let's bet $100 on this as a contribution to Wounded Warriors. I say it is a slight recalibration. You say it is not. If I am right, each of you contribute $100.00 to WW. If I am wrong, I contribute $100.00 to WW but only once not for each disser. OK?

 

[Jack B]

$$ talk, BS walks.

OK dissers. Let's bet $100 on this as a contribution to Wounded Warriors. I say it is a slight recalibration. You say it is not. If I am right, each of you contribute $100.00 to WW. If I am wrong, I contribute $100.00 to WW but only once not for each disser. OK?

 

[Twister]

Damn. It got even faster!

 

[MoparMap]

EPA certification become an interesting question on power increases as well. Once an engine has passed all the regulatory stuff, changing it could possibly mean big bucks in retesting and recertifying. Not sure what sort of leeway they have in tweaking stuff without a full recert, but a substaintial power increase would likely be a few years in the making so they have time to recoupe the intial investment. If they have to recert after every power increase, it would probably be a bigger hit on the Viper budget than putting up with slow sales for a couple of years.

Just to pick a number, say it costs 1 million every time they have to recert. If they bump power every year because of customer complaints, they "lose" 1 million a year, but gain maybe a hundred cars a year. Is that enough to offset the cost? If they wait 5 years for a more substantial power increase, they may have lost 500 cars in sales over that time, but they kept 5 million for not having to retest all the time. I'm sure there are accountants all over it crunching the numbers, but I think it mostly comes down to patience.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

OK dissers. Let's bet $100 on this as a contribution to Wounded Warriors. I say it is a slight recalibration. You say it is not. If I am right, each of you contribute $100.00 to WW. If I am wrong, I contribute $100.00 to WW but only once not for each disser. OK?

You are on Bob....

 

[DMan]

I too think this would be a retune and refinement that could impact the total curve. It would be great to get some .... what's it called that SRT used to give us, um, oh, "Info" about the 2015. If this is the case & it can be dealer loaded as a refresh to prior cars, that would be exciting, to me anyway.

 

[KB Viper]

i hope this is a increase in the total power band. and i do agree if it is a re cal every owner should get re flashed at the dealer for free

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Not a re-cal just a measurement cal... so there is nothing to re flash into the 13-14' cars.

 

[Bobpantax]

Killjoy. LOL. Too bad. Bets are closed.

 

[DMan]

Not a re-cal just a measurement cal... so there is nothing to re flash into the 13-14' cars.

The bitter sweet of Mr Jorgensen. You get the truth, but the truth isn't always as fun. Thx for clarifying, Mark.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

The bitter sweet of Mr Jorgensen. You get the truth, but the truth isn't always as fun. Thx for clarifying, Mark.

Well the sweet is that the Offroad PCM is not dead yet so I have silent hope meaning I'm not talking till they are in my hands LOL.

 

[TrackAire]

EPA certification become an interesting question on power increases as well. Once an engine has passed all the regulatory stuff, changing it could possibly mean big bucks in retesting and recertifying. Not sure what sort of leeway they have in tweaking stuff without a full recert, but a substaintial power increase would likely be a few years in the making so they have time to recoupe the intial investment. If they have to recert after every power increase, it would probably be a bigger hit on the Viper budget than putting up with slow sales for a couple of years.

Just to pick a number, say it costs 1 million every time they have to recert. If they bump power every year because of customer complaints, they "lose" 1 million a year, but gain maybe a hundred cars a year. Is that enough to offset the cost? If they wait 5 years for a more substantial power increase, they may have lost 500 cars in sales over that time, but they kept 5 million for not having to retest all the time. I'm sure there are accountants all over it crunching the numbers, but I think it mostly comes down to patience.

It is a good question on how a vehicle gets "re-certified".......my guess is Chrysler has its own certification lab in house. Once a product has passed certification, doing minor upgrades (like a minor computer program change) does not require a complete "start from zero" certification. I would think the Chrysler lab is certified and they are held accountable for the results and findings by the overseeing government agencies (EPA, CARB, etc).

A minor computer program change should not entail a start over re-certification....a lot of things get changed in programming over a vehicles life span. IIRC, the 2008 Gen 4 has a slighter different program than the 2009 and newer Gen 4's. I doubt anything had to be re-certified for that.

I could be wrong, but I doubt it

 

[MoparMap]

I could see that. The main question becomes when does it require a "start over" certification? Without reading all the regulation I wouldn't know, but I'd imagine an intake/exhaust kind of change would likely require something. Say they bump the car to 700 and have to redo everything, then people want 750 the next year to leapfrog whatever some competitor has done, etc. Granted, I think the regulations typically only really care about engine characteristics at "normal" sorts of conditions. For instance, Ferrari (in the past at least), had a cat bypass valve that would open up in certain conditions like WOT or high rpm or something. Similar to active exhaust systems in that as long as you meet noise regulations at the conditions they test under, you can do whatever you want outside of those conditions. I suppose if you could be clever enough you could make some monster power as long as you're frugal at the lower end of engine operating range. Though I don't know how Euro and US regulations compare.

 

[Nsane1]

As suspected, I'm sure the wounded warriors appreciate's the contribution. I wish it was the other way, but given my above point that all the other models got the same increase, it seemed weird. Shucks... Silver lining that for the first time ever I think Bob was wrong about something, and a worthwhile organization gets some cash. (you know I love ya man!)

And even better news on the off road PCM... Can't wait, I go off road all the time

 

[Bobpantax]

I have not completely conceded yet but I respect Mark enough to hedge my bet and close the betting. LOL. My belief that it was a slight tweak to the calibration was based on something I heard a few months back from someone I then considered a reliable source. I also thought the new throttle body material might be part of that although Mark thought that the change was just a supplier change. In any event, if there is going to be a slight tweak, I am sure that we will be able to get it uploaded at our friendly Dodge dealer.