Possible 2016 Supercharged

[Bobpantax]

The whole Euro snob thing is strange and undeserved. We saved Euope from the Nazis and bailed all of Europe out after WWII with the Marshall Plan. We then triumphed over communism and now we are, or at least we were, trying to protect the world from the Jihadists. The Europeans should be looking up to us not visa versa.

When we put our automotive minds to it we always blow them away. Just look what the Viper ORECA team did.

Back to the subject. I can see a positive displacement aftermarket kit coming for 20 to 25K installed with a square under hood brace to replace the X brace but that's it. I would also guess it would be limited to 5 or 6 pounds of boost and the flywheel HP produced would peak at 750.

 

[Nsane1]

LOLre Europe. Bob. I've heard rumors of what you suggest, but we might as well be comparing Lingenfelter cars then, way diff than a car from the factory like that...

 

[FLL-B/W-GTS]

As the facts now show,Dodge is not going to fill any of the dreamers fantasies (Superchargers,Wow HP.etc.) with the Gen 5 Viper.So,the only solution is to own a Gen.5 TA for your track car and a Hellcat Challenger or Charger for your Test and Tune Quarter mile destroyer..

Myself,gona limit the track beatings on the big $$$$ 10.70s Euro Turbo S and get me a 10 second Charger to beat up at the Test and Tune and my 707 Hp Highway cruiser...
Black of course with black windows....

 

[Free2go]

The whole Euro snob thing is strange and undeserved. We saved Euope from the Nazis and bailed all of Europe out after WWII with the Marshall Plan.

You failed to mention that we also cooked Hiroshima and Nagasaki......

 

[sunsalem]

What would this cost? I was discussing this with some Viper peeps this weekend. If they did this, and left the price alone (~120k) that would justify the higher (~50k) price of the Viper vs Vette.
They are in a bind, they can't really reduce the price officially (MSRP) as they would look really silly as the only thing that has changed is sales and the vette, so this allows a win for everyone.

Cost would be a HUGE issue IMO.
OTOH, if SRT could slip a SC on the base model for an additional 20K (>800 HP), I think it could work at clearing existing inventory.

Let's play the other card, what if Dodge does nothing?? Do you think they would just give up against the Vette? Dodge makes the coolest cars out there, edgy, in your face, everything that Viper stands for, while sales ****, I just see it as un-Dodge-like to just say "you win GM"... Anyway, I hope anyway...

If Dodge does nothing, there will be hundreds of 2013-4 Vipers on lots next spring (I can hear Sergio coming with his axe already).

I also heard that the new Z Vette is not for sale yet so the keyboard racers might as well be playing a video game.

Isn't that what the internet is all about?

It will be fun to read about all the crying and complaining and rationalizing when both Hellcat variants hit the streets. The Chevy and Ford guys will not know whther to s**t or go blind.

I can just SEE those tears hitting the blacktop now....

It is too edgy and the front and back conflict with each other. It's too complicated.

A lot of that "edginess" is the result of Wind Tunnel work.
There is a lot of aero stuff on it derived from their racing program.

Also, and IMO, the sharp edges does give it more of an exotic look....look at some of today's Euro Super/Hyber cars.

They literally said, because at the end of the day the Mustang is still just a Mustang & the M3 is a BMW.

I remember that nonsense too.

There may be the joy of putting euro exotics etc in the rearview, but the snobbery IMO is a ways from being broken. I've had 7 BMWs, 4 were Ms, and once I got my CTS V I said ba-buy BMW. Don't have the V anymore, but it'll take a lot in the world of cars to break these snob thoughts.

I have a 2012 V coupe and love it.
Smooth, comfortable, and powerful.
AND it does turn heads everywhere I go.
Whenever I stop for gas, the kids always tell me it looks like the "Batmobile."

As for Ford, they're cooking their steroids as we speak.

I haven't been paying attention lately to what they have been doing, but it would be great to see them come out with a Supercar competitor (love the sound of their V8).
With all 3 manufacturers in the game, it would spur innovation and respect worldwide for Detroit.

 

[sunsalem]

The whole Euro snob thing is strange and undeserved. We saved Euope from the Nazis and bailed all of Europe out after WWII with the Marshall Plan. We then triumphed over communism and now we are, or at least we were, trying to protect the world from the Jihadists. The Europeans should be looking up to us not visa versa.

You know how people are: "What have you done for me lately?"

I would also guess it would be limited to 5 or 6 pounds of boost and the flywheel HP produced would peak at 750.

I think you are being much too conservative of what kind of power 5-6 lbs. of boost will generate...
If we apply it to the current 645 hp. V10, I believe we are looking at 850 hp. easy.

LOLre Europe. Bob. I've heard rumors of what you suggest, but we might as well be comparing Lingenfelter cars then, way diff than a car from the factory like that...

In my ideal fantasy world, a small team of SRT engineers would travel the country and install the SC on the cars already at the Dealer's lots.
Thereby reassuring customers of the quality of the installation and keeping factory warranties intact.

.So,the only solution is to own a Gen.5 TA for your track car and a Hellcat Challenger or Charger for your Test and Tune Quarter mile destroyer..

Myself,gona limit the track beatings on the big $$$$ 10.70s Euro Turbo S and get me a 10 second Charger to beat up at the Test and Tune and my 707 Hp Highway cruiser...

Not a bad plan.

Black of course with black windows....

OF COURSE!

 

[SnakeBitten]

Wasn't ORECA a french racing team?

 

[sunsalem]

Wasn't ORECA a french racing team?

It is/was....and what have they done for us lately?

 

[05Commemorative]

we are talking about cars, right? Seriously, drive and own and Mercedes AMG (E, S, SL or even C class) and tell me it is not a better car (much better car) than the American offerings. It just is so give its due and understand the reputation was earned. More importantly, drive one that is 5yrs old and compare how it held up to its American equivalent of same age. No comparison. Quality is just at a completely different level. It is not about Europeans looking up or down at anything, it is simply Americans judging on quality of products and not being blind (either way) by who made them. Probably the best American offerings would be from Cadillac, but still not the same. Ford/Dodge/Chrysler/Chev/Buick don't even have a product to compare.

I had a buddy that always hassled me about having an E55 AMG as my daily driver suggesting it is all hype over the brand and that better/equivalent cars existed for less money. This went on for years until his wife wanted one. So, he purchases her one and 2 months later says to me "I get it now. Total different level of quality, driving experience, service, etc..." So, give the cars their credit.

Now, back to SC discussion. I think the simpler solution is just to have an LED read-out on the hood, dash and spoiler that displays the HP # the owner needs to feel complete. Let them control from inside the car so it can always be adjusted to what is required whether it be at a gas station, car show, etc. What the actual HP is does not matter as 95% of the owners will never use it anyways so if a marketing tool, might as well truly make it a marketing tool. Think about it, dealers can set it to whatever they want when trying to sell one. You need 800hp among your friends, you got it. you need 900hp, you got it. I think it would be brilliant, cost effective and most importantly, I think many would actually believe it to be true much like what is seen on the internet. (yes, I am partially teasing on this, but only partially)

The whole Euro snob thing is strange and undeserved. We saved Euope from the Nazis and bailed all of Europe out after WWII with the Marshall Plan. We then triumphed over communism and now we are, or at least we were, trying to protect the world from the Jihadists. The Europeans should be looking up to us not visa versa.

When we put our automotive minds to it we always blow them away. Just look what the Viper ORECA team did.

Back to the subject. I can see a positive displacement aftermarket kit coming for 20 to 25K installed with a square under hood brace to replace the X brace but that's it. I would also guess it would be limited to 5 or 6 pounds of boost and the flywheel HP produced would peak at 750.

 

[Free2go]

Now, back to SC discussion. I think the simpler solution is just to have an LED read-out on the hood, dash and spoiler that displays the HP # the owner needs to feel complete. Let them control from inside the car so it can always be adjusted to what is required whether it be at a gas station, car show, etc.)

I'm gonna agree on this one. It should also be followed by a huge ad campaign....."What YOUR number?"
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UmkkeyxirZs

My wife likes the 900HP setting....while I'm quite happy with 650....

 

[Rapid Transit]

we are talking about cars, right? Seriously, drive and own and Mercedes AMG (E, S, SL or even C class) and tell me it is not a better car (much better car) than the American offerings. It just is so give its due and understand the reputation was earned. More importantly, drive one that is 5yrs old and compare how it held up to its American equivalent of same age. No comparison. Quality is just at a completely different level. It is not about Europeans looking up or down at anything, it is simply Americans judging on quality of products and not being blind (either way) by who made them. Probably the best American offerings would be from Cadillac, but still not the same. Ford/Dodge/Chrysler/Chev/Buick don't even have a product to compare.

I had a buddy that always hassled me about having an E55 AMG as my daily driver suggesting it is all hype over the brand and that better/equivalent cars existed for less money. This went on for years until his wife wanted one. So, he purchases her one and 2 months later says to me "I get it now. Total different level of quality, driving experience, service, etc..." So, give the cars their credit.

I agree, those cars are very nice and fast. The problem is they're not reliable, various issues pop up later when out of warranty, repairs are expensive. This is from a few of my friends who adore AMGs, they only lease for good reason. That's also probably why those cars depreciate so much.

 

[Twister]

The supercharged viper will hit with 5psi from the factory at 777 hp and a base price of 120k...I can feel it!!!!

 

[Twister]

Can you imagine a 3400 pound car putting down 680 rwhp from the factory with a top speed of 210 mph and running 10.4 @ 138 mph???

Please Dodge.....I swear Ill buy one of you make it...Im begging you Viper Gods. Please do this and bring us back to the 90s dominance

 

[sunsalem]

I think the simpler solution is just to have an LED read-out on the hood, dash and spoiler that displays the HP # the owner needs to feel complete. Let them control from inside the car so it can always be adjusted to what is required whether it be at a gas station, car show, etc. What the actual HP is does not matter as 95% of the owners will never use it anyways so if a marketing tool, might as well truly make it a marketing tool. Think about it, dealers can set it to whatever they want when trying to sell one. You need 800hp among your friends, you got it. you need 900hp, you got it. I think it would be brilliant, cost effective and most importantly, I think many would actually believe it to be true much like what is seen on the internet. (yes, I am partially teasing on this, but only partially)

Now it's your turn to be "serious."
Adjustable power on a Viper?
What Viper guy would want anything BUT the maximum?

I agree, those cars are very nice and fast. The problem is they're not reliable, various issues pop up later when out of warranty, repairs are expensive. This is from a few of my friends who adore AMGs, they only lease for good reason. That's also probably why those cars depreciate so much.

BMWs are also not known for reliability.

 

[Bobpantax]

But for Americans there would be no Mercedes. Without the Marshall Plan and our protecting West Germany from the Communists , Germany would not have become the post war industrial power house it became. As for quality, Mercedes has also had its share of issues.

I have had my Lightning since 2000 and it has been flawless and reliable. It also looks new. If you maintain a car, it will continue to look good. I think euro sedan admirers confuse complexity and tech with quality. I am more impressed with comfort, safety, low maintainence costs and durability. The Cadillac CTS - V variant sedan holds its own pretty well against the AMG sedans. The Jeep SRT8 is equal to if not better than many of its Euro competitors for much less money. And show me where there is any euro car that equals a Camaro ZL1, Camaro Z28, Mustang GT500 or either of the two Hellcats for anywhere near the same money. Speaking of the Charger Hellcat, show me a Euro Sedan that will beat it in the quarter mile - 11 seconds flat on street tires - and at top speed - 204 MPH. And the interior ain't to shabby either. The days of AMG's alleged superiority are over. What's left is the continued and excessive loyalty of its fans.

Lastly, if you think the SLS Mercedes is a good looking car, more power to you. I think it is a very poor and unbalanced design.

we are talking about cars, right? Seriously, drive and own and Mercedes AMG (E, S, SL or even C class) and tell me it is not a better car (much better car) than the American offerings. It just is so give its due and understand the reputation was earned. More importantly, drive one that is 5yrs old and compare how it held up to its American equivalent of same age. No comparison. Quality is just at a completely different level. It is not about Europeans looking up or down at anything, it is simply Americans judging on quality of products and not being blind (either way) by who made them. Probably the best American offerings would be from Cadillac, but still not the same. Ford/Dodge/Chrysler/Chev/Buick don't even have a product to compare.

I had a buddy that always hassled me about having an E55 AMG as my daily driver suggesting it is all hype over the brand and that better/equivalent cars existed for less money. This went on for years until his wife wanted one. So, he purchases her one and 2 months later says to me "I get it now. Total different level of quality, driving experience, service, etc..." So, give the cars their credit.

Now, back to SC discussion. I think the simpler solution is just to have an LED read-out on the hood, dash and spoiler that displays the HP # the owner needs to feel complete. Let them control from inside the car so it can always be adjusted to what is required whether it be at a gas station, car show, etc. What the actual HP is does not matter as 95% of the owners will never use it anyways so if a marketing tool, might as well truly make it a marketing tool. Think about it, dealers can set it to whatever they want when trying to sell one. You need 800hp among your friends, you got it. you need 900hp, you got it. I think it would be brilliant, cost effective and most importantly, I think many would actually believe it to be true much like what is seen on the internet. (yes, I am partially teasing on this, but only partially)

 

[sunsalem]

I have had my Lightning since 2000 and it has been flawless and reliable. It also looks new. If you maintain a car, it will continue to look good. I think euro sedan admirers confuse complexity and tech with quality. I am more impressed with comfort, safety, low maintainence costs and durability. The Cadillac CTS - V variant sedan holds its own pretty well against the AMG sedans. The Jeep SRT8 is equal to if not better than many of its Euro competitors for much less money.

SMALL world, Bob.

I had a 2001 silver Lightning and loved it.
My experience was the same as yours: reliable, fast, fun to drive, comfortable seats for someone with a bad back like me, and Brembos so good you would swear someone had thrown an anchor out the back of the bed.

Also, I had a 2007 Gen1 GC SRT.
Talk about a kick in the butt to drive!
Like the Lightening, perfect reliability, great seats, the howl of the Hemi under load ALWAYS put a huge smile on my face, and hard to believe a big SUV could handle as well as it did....I think I still hold the land speed record for an SUV over the Cascade Mtns.
The thing was so good, the Germans were forced to resort to FI to best it in a straight line.

BTW and you may recall, I have a 2012 CTS-V coupe I sing the praises of too.

My point is anyone who thinks American vehicles have been underachievers, don't have a clue what they are talkin about.

 

[05Commemorative]

Did I mention somewhere in my note the SLS? (nope). time to put the flag down for a minute, we are just talking about cars. Why bringing up history from 80yrs ago, we are talking about products the manufactures produce today, correct? You also got to stop doing the "for less money" routine and to suggest pony cars are quality cars is really pretty sad. How much plastic can still be put in a car gets defined by the mustang and Camaro. Yes, they are at great price points and offer great performance, but lets not confuse that with quality cars. Also, no confusion with tech/complexity and quality. Really, just talking about quality of the overall car which includes design, usability, performance, handling, ride, comfort, on and on.

You are picking an American car and pointing out its one (and usually only) top trait, but forgetting its many weaknesses. Again, from someone who has owned these cars, there really is no comparison.

Owned a SRT Jeep, but to say it is close in quality to the European counterparts is a massive stretch. Same for the sedans. Are the american versions much lower in price, definitely but that is also what makes them not as good because they are different price points. To suggest the Hellcat sedan is better than its euro counterparts crazy. More affordable, yes. Faster in a straight line on drive pavement, maybe. Overall performance and in particular in wet, no way (remember AMG's are AWD drive). More comfortable, no. better design, no. More affordable, absolutely. Owned a CTS-V and to suggest better than AMG is also crazy. Just different level guys and yes have owned them. Sunsalem, can you say you have owned both and speak with that experience? Never said underachievers, just in general are lower priced and correspondingly you end up getting what you paid for.

So, I guess the debate goes on, but cars and manufacturers earned their reputations, both positive and negative and thank goodness the American manufacturers have continued to improve. To suggest at the same level though, no way.

But for Americans there would be no Mercedes. Without the Marshall Plan and our protecting West Germany from the Communists , Germany would not have become the post war industrial power house it became. As for quality, Mercedes has also had its share of issues.

I have had my Lightning since 2000 and it has been flawless and reliable. It also looks new. If you maintain a car, it will continue to look good. I think euro sedan admirers confuse complexity and tech with quality. I am more impressed with comfort, safety, low maintainence costs and durability. The Cadillac CTS - V variant sedan holds its own pretty well against the AMG sedans. The Jeep SRT8 is equal to if not better than many of its Euro competitors for much less money. And show me where there is any euro car that equals a Camaro ZL1, Camaro Z28, Mustang GT500 or either of the two Hellcats for anywhere near the same money. Speaking of the Charger Hellcat, show me a Euro Sedan that will beat it in the quarter mile - 11 seconds flat on street tires - and at top speed - 204 MPH. And the interior ain't to shabby either. The days of AMG's alleged superiority are over. What's left is the continued and excessive loyalty of its fans.

Lastly, if you think the SLS Mercedes is a good looking car, more power to you. I think it is a very poor and unbalanced design.

 

[05Commemorative]

I can only speak to my experience and friends, but have had multiple AMG's and bullet proof cars and owned for up to 9yrs. I can't say the same with American cars owned in the past. I don't think reliability is the issue, but the cost of doing the exact same repair is higher( sometimes much higher) for the Euro and that point is super valid.

I agree, those cars are very nice and fast. The problem is they're not reliable, various issues pop up later when out of warranty, repairs are expensive. This is from a few of my friends who adore AMGs, they only lease for good reason. That's also probably why those cars depreciate so much.

 

[Bobpantax]

Just a little reminder of what a Jeep SRT8 with less than 10K in mods (put on by the dealer) did against a Renntech tuned BMW X5M - a far more expensive car. Note the E.T. difference and the weather conditions. I beat him by the same margin in at least four other runs where there was no red light. The car has been supercharged for 30,000 miles - all trouble free. It was only at the strip that one time. I wanted to see what she would do.

The second video shows her standing mile performance. Nothing in her category came close and she beat quite a few cars. This was also a one time outing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9lnoIsp6G0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYWjkOBoG60


I hope that a positive displacement kit for the Gen V as relaible as Vortech's centrifugal kit has been for my Jeep is eventually produced. That would be a wonderful achievement.

 

[Free2go]

05commie, Bob just handed you your butt hole son......

 

[sunsalem]

Did I mention somewhere in my note the SLS? (nope). time to put the flag down for a minute, we are just talking about cars. Why bringing up history from 80yrs ago, we are talking about products the manufactures produce today, correct? You also got to stop doing the "for less money" routine and to suggest pony cars are quality cars is really pretty sad. How much plastic can still be put in a car gets defined by the mustang and Camaro. Yes, they are at great price points and offer great performance, but lets not confuse that with quality cars. Also, no confusion with tech/complexity and quality. Really, just talking about quality of the overall car which includes design, usability, performance, handling, ride, comfort, on and on.

You are picking an American car and pointing out its one (and usually only) top trait, but forgetting its many weaknesses. Again, from someone who has owned these cars, there really is no comparison.

Owned a SRT Jeep, but to say it is close in quality to the European counterparts is a massive stretch. Same for the sedans. Are the american versions much lower in price, definitely but that is also what makes them not as good because they are different price points. To suggest the Hellcat sedan is better than its euro counterparts crazy. More affordable, yes. Faster in a straight line on drive pavement, maybe. Overall performance and in particular in wet, no way (remember AMG's are AWD drive). More comfortable, no. better design, no. More affordable, absolutely. Owned a CTS-V and to suggest better than AMG is also crazy. Just different level guys and yes have owned them.

Uhhhhh, OK....then why did you say this: "(remember AMG's are AWD drive)"?????

The majority of AMGs are AND always have been RWD...you should know this:
http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/amg

Sunsalem, can you say you have owned both and speak with that experience?

Have not owned an AMG, but have driven them and they are fine vehicles (BTW, I am a big MB fan).

I have seriously considered buying MBs in the past....
However, in the last analysis, I opted to buy American.
Kinda liked the idea of supporting decent manufacturing jobs in my country and not in Germany (same reason why I like having a Viper and have not bought a 458).

 

[MoparMap]

The simple fact is that everyone has their preferences and tastes, so what someone might think it great, others might think is just okay or even total crap. There's no doubt that brand name carries a weight with it, but that does not mean for a second that any car that manufacturer produces is automatically superior to a lesser respected brand. Everyone has had their lemons through the years as well as their gems. I had a 2000 XKR and I can say that wood in the interior does not automatically mean it's better than plastic. The wood in my car was sun bleached three different colors with cracking vanish, a full plastic (or even better, aluminum) dash would probably have had less noticeable wear in my opinion, and seemed to age better. Granted the leather in that car was super comfortable. You almost want to drive it naked that stuff is so buttery soft and smooth.

10-20 years ago I'd probably give the edge to European cars as they typically have always had a quality attitude toward cars (at least the big names that everyoen knows) whereas American designs still seemed to favor bang for the buck or even flat out cheap and affordable. Lately I think we're finally seeing that trend shift some. We want more for our money and have gotten used to nicely equipped cars. I know several people who have bought new Darts and love them and they're really pretty nice cars. It's not the kind of thing you'd compare to a Merc/BMW, but mostly just because there isn't an equivalent car from that manufactuer (maybe a 2 series BMW I guess). Though I know someone at work with a 2 series and I've had a ride in it and wasn't really amazed. Nice car for sure, but not leaps and bound over other stuff. We get a picture in our minds that one car brand is so much better than another because we've always heard it that way, but when really boiling it all down, it doesn't always come out like that.

 

[sunsalem]

Granted the leather in that car was super comfortable. You almost want to drive it naked that stuff is so buttery soft and smooth.

Freudian slip?

We get a picture in our minds that one car brand is so much better than another because we've always heard it that way, but when really boiling it all down, it doesn't always come out like that.

Agreed.

I don't favor one American brand over the other and have vehicles from all 3 in my garages.
However, there are foreign brands I DO favor over others (won't list here in order to avoid a flame war ) for various reasons.

 

[PDCjonny]

same reason why I like having a Viper and have not bought a 458).

LOL, yeah sure it is.
Please tell us how you cross shopped the two and decided the Viper was a better car.
I swear we'll believe you.

 

[black mamba1]

Somebody is FINALLY LISTENING, and this should have been done from the beginning of the Gen V. It only took 3 years and really poor sales for the Viper Gods to figure out that dominant sports cars are supposed to be faster than the competition, and not just faster on some road course in the middle of nowhere that only 10% of the owners will ever drive on only 2 to maybe 3 times a year.

And for you stick shifting purists, you are about to be gravely disappointed. A 2016 800 hp Viper will definitely have an automatic as an option, otherwise it again makes no sense cuz the current auto's out there will leave any stick shifter in the dust, I don't care if its Robo Cop shifting.

Thank God the Viper guys prove that they "get it" and have re-grown a set of balls. A supercharged 800 hp Viper! Yes!!

Back to being the badass King of the Mountain!

 

[sunsalem]

LOL, yeah sure it is.
Please tell us how you cross shopped the two and decided the Viper was a better car.
I swear we'll believe you.

I have had my Viper for 11 years....so NO, I didn't "cross shop and decided the Viper is the better car."

The 458, which I drove in Vegas, is the most visceral, kinetic car I have ever experienced.
The thing left me slack-jawed.
ALL other things being equal, I would pick it as my most desirable vehicle of all time.
FWIW, I do have the resources to buy one, but I choose not to.

 

[Bobpantax]

The Ferrari is just an Italian Viper. The cars use same seat manufacturer. LOL.

I have had my Viper for 11 years....so NO, I didn't "cross shop and decided the Viper is the better car."

The 458, which I drove in Vegas, is the most visceral, kinetic car I have ever experienced.
The thing left me slack-jawed.
ALL other things being equal, I would pick it as my most desirable vehicle of all time.
FWIW, I do have the resources to buy one, but I choose not to.

 

[sunsalem]

The Ferrari is just an Italian Viper. The cars use same seat manufacturer. LOL.

Yeah, I guess you're right about that.

 

[ViperDC]

Somebody is FINALLY LISTENING, and this should have been done from the beginning of the Gen V. It only took 3 years and really poor sales for the Viper Gods to figure out that dominant sports cars are supposed to be faster than the competition, and not just faster on some road course in the middle of nowhere that only 10% of the owners will ever drive on only 2 to maybe 3 times a year.

Thank God the Viper guys prove that they "get it" and have re-grown a set of balls. A supercharged 800 hp Viper! Yes!!

Back to being the badass King of the Mountain!

Agree 100% with all this. HP and 1/4 mile times sell cars!!!

 

[Free2go]

FWIW, I do have the resources to buy one, but I choose not to.

Yeah, me too........